Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

rs64

Mike, what "tax ramification" are you eluding to?
The buyer will owe sales tax which would be paid when they register the car. There would not be any "capital gains" tax if that is what you were thinking. The main benefit selling it yourself is that you could get more for it than the dealer would give you as a trade as the dealer typically will go less that trade-in value/fair condition no matter what shape your vehicle is in.

Good luck!

kenyee

Depending on which state you are in, the sales tax may be on the diff between purchase price and trade-in.

gustavm

Please don't take offense, but

it is versus, not verses. You can always write vs. and not worry about it.

It's to allude to (refer to), not to elude (to evade from).

-- Gustav

thor8

When you trade in, you pay taxes only for the difference. The thing to weigh in is this, you will receive less from the dealer in a trade in, but you will not pay taxes for the dollar amount of the traded vehicle, if the tax amount is equal or comes close to the extra that you make by selling privately I never bother to go to the extra hassle, only if I will lose a lot in the transaction. Also to consider is the tax rate in you state, the higher the better to trade in.

dbono

We're getting the navigation system installed on our 2001 ML today. The first thing I notice is that we will be vacationing outside the area covered by our home area disc. Does anybody have a good source for discs, or am I stuck paying the dealer price (which is exhorbitant!). Also, how does MB handle distributing periodic updates, to account for our ever-changing roads?

drew_

Some dealers will rent you the discs for outside of your region. I believe you do get one update for free from NavTech (make sure they have your vehicle's VIN in their database), but other than that, you'll have to pay for subsequent updates. It's not just limited to MB, but all other companies operate this way as well.

I hope this helps!

drew_

No, I'm sorry to say that the diesels will not be available in N.America until drastically lower sulphur levels in the fuel are mandated by law. That is the only way that the oil companies will change...only when they're forced to do so. The current diesel fuel has too much sulphur and the diesel engines cannot be made to comply with emissions standards since the sulphur renders the emission control devices useless.

drew_

Thanks for the update! Please don't be a stranger to this topic and let us know how the things turn out ;-)


Drew
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macbest

In Calif and AZ, you do not get the difference between your car and what you trade as the taxable amount. You pay full taxes on the new car, and no credit for the old car. This has burned me more than once as I always think that. Other states may be different.

mtsang

Thanks ALL for your responses. You guys are a wealth of info. Thanks again.

sydney6

My wife saw a ML recently with an all-black licence plate with the silver MB star on it in place of the front plate. I realize that this is likely illegal (definitely here in California), but it looked really cool and that law is rarely enforced, anyway.

Anyone know where I can find one of those?

drew_

Your MB dealer should have it as an accessory :-)

tlwwso

Sydney6:

I have seen this plate on the MB website as well in the MB catalogs. Hope that this helps. It is also against the law here in Texas, but many people just pay the fine.

tlwwso

biker5

Hey, Ron,
Its illegal if you got caught, a little story about my friend, his got one like whats your wife saw. He failed to make a full stop, on one of four way stop sign, in short when the cop walked around the car he saw that black plate with big star in the middle..boom xtra $25.00 fine. It happened here in our city sunny San Diego. So watch out :-)

nikorr

As DREW explained why 400ML cdi will not apear on N. American markets , just want to said that the USA will make low sulphur diesel in 2007 . But in 2007 the Europien EKO norm's might be again not the same as in the USA. From NationGeogr.

thor8

If in California and Arizona one does not get credit for taxes paid on the trade in, that amounts to double taxation, a sacred cow is no more.

svinaik

I have an invite for the forthcoming MB power trip in NJ. Just wanted to check with you folks anything to enhance the experience. I am contemplating ML 500 in the near future. Though I do not believe that they will have the ML 500 there but 430 will do. Anything special I should check out as I have never owned a SUV before.

Also if anyone here has been to one recently, Do they mind if I take my little boy and leave him in the reception area

Thanks

kenyee

thor8:
Double taxation is when people buy used cars and get taxed for it. The object was taxed once already when it was new...

svinaik:
Some folks brought their 10-12yr olds, including little girls (the event seemed mostly a guy thing so this was unexpected). Some of the kids came out of the test drives w/ smiles. It's just a different kind of Disney ride :-)
I saw one bored girl go into line and tell her dad she was waiting in the reception area, so it should be ok.
Driver distribution seemed 95% male, 5% female.

rockypaul

I must write to the governor!
NY missed a tax opportunity!

It has been common practice here to add the net sales tax benefit lost on a private sale to the asking price in a private tranaction.

However, with a dealer oftentimes the net transaction price on a vehicle includes an inflated trade-in amount that in fact represents to some extent a dealer discount, all of which must be considered when comparing the two acquisition methods.

sydney6

Thanks for the info on the black plate. I'll check it out on the website and at my dealer. Biker5, yes, I understand the risk, but as in your example, usually you need to be pulled over for some oter infraction (e.g. speeding or something) to be fined for it. Since we haven't been pulled over in years and years (knock on wood), I'm willing to risk the fine!

mtsang

I have been considering getting 3rd row seats when I order my '02 ML. Just a comment to those who are in the same boat - I noticed that getting in/out over the tumbled and folded 2nd row seat can be tricky. It requires some careful footing and agility. FWIW.

drew_

Really? I thought that it was pretty easy. Was the piston holding the seatback visible? It should've been since the 2nd row seat should be vertcle. There is about a foot of room ahead of the 3rd row footwell, if not slightly more than that, for you to step on to get in or out. It is a lot easier if you have side steps when you're getting out, since you have something to step on when coming down, instead of simply hopping off.

The Ford Expedition's is what you call tricky! There is no 3rd row footwell, so you sit on an elevated floor above the rear axle, the 2nd row doesn't exactly tilt and tumble forward so you are forced to step on the 2nd row seatback. Pretty difficult considering the height of the truck!


Drew
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biker5

Ron, don't get me wrong, I'm planning to do the same thing, my last ticket was back in 1987 (knock on wood) when I'm still station in Virginia, BTW performance product sells them but its not black, its GOLD for $59.00.
NICE weather here in Sun Dog huh!!!

sydney6

Gold, huh? Since we have a Polar White ML, I think the black would be a better contrast.

Yes, another perfect day in paradise!

rexconde1

If you can go DEFINATLY DO it!. It is a lot of fun. You get to drive the new c-coupe all the way to the CL-coupe and the S500.

I wouldnt leave your son in the reception area as there really isnt one and wouldnt want them to get in teo mischief. Like ken said there were kids there, and they too should enjoy the whole thing. Have your kids get a pic with the Silver Arrow, SL

R

kenyee

Robert:
You saw the Silver Arrow at yours? We didn't :-(

mercara

How does Volks Wagon sell Diesels here if the above explanation holds? What about the 300D that Mercedes was selling untill about 2 years ago? My brother in law just bought a used 300D to commute and he loves it. Gives about 30 miles to a gallon and if you have noticed, deisel cost a lot less than gas now.

drew_

VW diesels are a lot lower output than they could be, and are also only the 4 cylinder models. These engines also not the newer onesthe that are available in Europe, IIRC. MB's MY1999 Turbodiesel E-class was not the high tech common rail direct injection model that is currently available in Europe.

Diesel prices tend to fluctuate a lot less than gasoline prices, but they are not necessarily cheaper. They aren't in my area, of example, and occasions, they are even higher. However, the trade off is better fuel economy.

drew_

No, the Silver Arrow edition of the '02 SL. ;-)


Drew
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mlx52

Mercedes has updated their web-site! It now contains all of the 2002 information, pricing, options...etc. The only information that is not currently on the web-site is the M-Class's info and the e-brochures are still from the 2001 MY.

Just incase anyone wanted to know,

Jamie

http://www.mbusa.com

sduff1

Tomorrow, I am taking delivery of my 2002 ML500 Sport. I'm trading in my 2001 ML430. I sat in the 02 ML320 the other day and it was wonderful. The a/c controls were beautiful. So far, I could only get $500 off MSRP but good money for my 01.

lemongrass

I had my '01 ML430 for almost 3 months now and almost 3800 miles on my odometer. The problem is I'm hearing high pitch sound (60% of the time) when brake is applied. Nothing shows up on the instrument panel (brake sensor). I'm in a state of denial right now. Will someone please tell me it ISN'T my brake pad...not at 3750 miles! TIA

lemongrass

How much did the dealer offer you for the '01 430 trade in? I'm seriously thinking about getting the ML500 in the summer of '02. Congratulation on your purchase of ML500...enjoy!

drew_

It could be brake dust, or it could be a small stone that is trapped in between the rotor and the shield. When do you hear the noise? When the brakes are cold? Or anytime? Usually cleaning the brakes with "Brake Clean" (let your dealer do it) gets rid of the noise if it's a brake dust accumulation issue.

drew_

Congrats again! Let us know how it goes, and I hope you'll be able to post a few pictures.

drew_

Thanks for the heads-up! I'm still not sure about the ML320's new wheels though. I like the old design better, at least from the pictures :-).


Drew
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mtsang

Yes, there is a pair of pistons that holds the folded 2nd row seat vertically towards the first row seatback. However, the pistons are positioned diagonally (about 30 degree from horizonal?), this creates a slight obstable. Additionally, w/o sidesteps, the first step of entry is stepping in between the sliding rails of the tumbled seat. The footing there is tricky because of the limited available surface area and the rails and the pistons. FWIW.

kenyee

I agree. Yuck. They'd be the first thing I'd replace...

sduff1

I original had a 2000 ML320 and a friend of mine wanted it so just a few months ago I got the 01 ML430, a Demo w/ 8000 miles. It's got 12k now and I'm getting $39500 for it. Just a tad less than I paid for it.

ml430s40

I previously posted concerning my ML not riding really smooth. I had the tires balanced and an alignment done last month (one month after delivery). Although it's much better, I still noticed the ride was somewhat choppy, especially over 65 mph. I brought the car in Wednesday and got a call Thursday from the SA. He stated that a "pressure test" found two tires out-of-round. They are replacing them with new ones. I was armed with a tech note from the mbnz.org forum.

Here are the details of the MB service bulletin:
--------------------------------------------------
14M/99-2 GROUP 49 - M-CLASS, VIBRATION: The following information is provided in case of complaints regarding M-Class vehicle vibration. Cause: 1) tires/wheels and/or front & rear differential may be slightly out of balance.
Please follow the sequence indicated below during diagnosis / repair.
A. Check run-out of mounted tire(s). If more than 1.0mm, check run-out of bare wheel. If run-out of bare wheel is less than 0.4mm, match mount tire to achieve a run-out of less than 1.5mm. If this is not possible, replace the tire. Please use Damage Code 40101 20.
B. If run-out of mounted tire is less than 1.5mm, calibrate tire balancer. Mount bare wheel and record balance weight required for inner and outer planes. Rotate bare wheel 180 degrees on shaft and respin wheel. If difference is more than 10 grams, have the tire balancer repaired or replaced before proceeding. Be sure to use centering adapter and flange plate as per S-SI-MBNA-40/26A, 58/82A, August 1998.
C. If imbalance is more than 10 grams, remove all weight and rebalance.
D. Reinstall wheels and test drive. If still not acceptable replace front and rear differentials (parts must be released by a Technical Specialist due to limited parts supply at this time).

NOTE: The complaint may be caused by either the vibration of wheels/tires and/or the
differentials. Before any repair attempt and to avoid unnecessary repairs, make sure to diagnose the correct cause for the complaint and perform repairs accordingly.

Damage Code 35001 36 - Rear
Damage Code 33401 36 - Front
--------------------------------------------------

I get the car back this afternoon and will let you know how much better it is.

Thanks to everyone who posted concerning the child seats.

Trailer hitch was 460.00, hitch and installation.

mlx52

I agree about the rims, however, I like the ones that they have chosen for the 500 and of course the 55's rims. I bet that Mercedes will offer a choice of rims in the accessory page of the BYO configuration on their web-site just as they do with the other models. The close-up of the headlights on the site looks great and will add new character to the car!! Looking forward to seeing it in person.

Jamie

sequoiasaurus

With an '02 ML320 on order I am looking at adding the sill plates (blue colored). The new MBUSA has them listed for ~$450. Does anyone have a recommendation on another source?

hogster21

Actually, Gustav, US is the most logical place to excercise higher speed potential of whatever it is you are driving with its wide open spaces and long interstate travel distances.

I do not advocate street racing, but getting from MSP to ORD in 4 hours instead of 6 allows for 2 more hours of party time!

hogster21

Frankly, Drew, I am offended:

>until drastically lower sulphur levels in the fuel are mandated by law. That is the only way that the oil companies will change...only when they're forced to do so.

It must be lets pick on big bad oil companies week.

Next thing I will read that BCP's, asbestos, CFC's, MTBE and like should never have been invented in the first place. Hmmm, why stop there? All vehicles pollute (even electrical ones - manufacture of such, etc) - damn them all! Back to horse and buggy! Wait, horses poop, can't have that!

Necessity is a mother of invention but all in due time. Sulfur-free diesel has already been invented and on the global market for the last 5 years, but it takes time to put multi-billion dollar investments into the ground and delivering as hoped for. New mandates are just a stop-gap measure until science and manufacturing catches up with reality. The only thing new regulations are going to accomplish is raise price of both gasoline and diesel in the interim as oil companies scramble to comply with temporary bandaids.

You think price of sulfur-free stuff going to come down when it finally makes its appearance in the market? Dream On! Market price will have been established by then, even though new stuff will be infinitely cheaper to produce!

Oh yeah! Greenies at work. We can already thank them and the corn lobby for that wonderful MPG-lowering mandate of ethanol inclusion!

Do not get me wrong, I am all for reducing emissions, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There is time for everything and everything in due time. And yes, I'm proud to be a part of the Chemical Industry - better life through chemicals, eh?

P.S. Did anybody keep track of how many cliche's I used?

drew_

No DIESEL models will be sold in Canada for the 2002 model year. Due to the variance in the diesel fuel quality sold in Canada (cetane value, sulfur content, level of contaminants) compared to Europe, the Mercedes-Benz direct injection diesel engines (CDI) cannot be certified to comply with Canadian emissions standards. Our plans for future offerings of diesel models depend on any Canadian legislation that will impose improved diesel fuel quality, an issue that is out of our control.


Drew
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drew_

What I mean to write was...that is the only way that the oil companies will change the sulphur levels...only when they're forced to do so.

Good luck

mlx52

I thought that someone had mentioned in the Tuesday night's chats that Mercedes, for 2002 would be switching to the V.60 phone from Motorola. I could be totally out of line and have misunderstood something, or did Mercedes decide not to make the switch to that phone.

Any thoughts
Jamie

drew_

I thought it was the new Motorola V.90 phone? Perhaps it's still being tested/finalised?

kenyee

hogster:
Interesting rant.
Quick question for you: If the stuff has been available for 5 yrs, why have refineries in the US and Canada not followed suit w/ our Euro friends? When did the Euro folks switch, how long did it take, and what made them switch? :-)
Serious question...not trying to rag on you or anything.

cdic

The brakes on my '01 430 made screech noises for about the 1st 6k miles or so an then slowly faded away. They are silent now. I did notice that the cold seemed to aggravate the problem. I remember Drew mentioning that the 430 brakes were different from 320's, maybe larger. It could easily just be an extended wear-in problem.