Every 2008 Impreza now features quick-responding steering adapted from the WRX performance model, with 2.8 turns lock-to-lock and a tight 11.8 metre (34.8 foot) turning circle.
That means every 08 Impreza (WRX and 2.5i) will have the same steering rack with 2.8 turns lock-to-lock (slightly slower than the 2.7 turns in the 06/07 WRX model while faster than the 3.0 turns in the 06/07 2.5i model). The steering difference is one additional advantage that the WRX had over the lesser Imprezas till date, which has now gone away.
So if one were to put in a take-off WRX front suspension (typically sold in places like nabisco for $300 or so) and WRX sway bars in the 2.5i model, what is the compelling advantage that a VDC equipped stick WRX, holds over a VDC equipped, several 1000$ cheaper, stick 2.5i (both without LSD) ?? A bit more additional power from the Turbo engine which REQUIRES premium fuel ?
I say this is one more reason to ditch the 08 WRX and go straight towards the equally spacious and identically "refined" 08 2.5i, and save a serious chunk of money.
The same could have been said about the 02 WRX over the 01 2.5RS
A few more HP from the Turbo engine? C'mon guy, we are talking apples and cucumbers here. If you think the difference is "tiny" between a turbo ~230hp v. 170hp NA engine, then there is no point in continueing the arguement.
In case of the WRX, they did some serious cost cutting in the 08 by eliminating equipment (less value for the consumer, more money for the manufacturer when the pricing does not go down) that came in the outgoing model, however creatively we wish to spin it. I will wager that the new 2008 will hit the lots with incentives.
How about the addition of a lot of equipment to the vehicle that make it more user-friendly? I guess that is worth nothing. What they did was survey what most of their consumers who are non-racers (since true racers will get the STi) and then decided to figure out how to keep it at a static price point while adding in things like VDC, GPS, upgraded interior, etc. Something has to give to get those items. You don't get something for nothing.
My final comments on this subject....
2.5i = base model trim WRX = mid-line trim STi = top end trim
As such, the 2.5i will get the lowest HP and least features, the WRX being the middle will get a med amount, and the STi being the top end will get all the bells and whistles.
Mike, I believe Baltimore is the east coast port of entry for Subarus.
I just checked FitzMall, and their Gaithersburg store has an '08 2.5i Premium 4EAT listed as being in stock, with a number of other '08s "coming soon."
Just spied - I'm no sedan buyer myself, but I think it's gonna kill WRX on the looks. If Mitsu comes with better specs and/or pricing, we will see quick $2000 cashback on Juice's and Mike's darling. - which of course could make me actually buy it.
I believe the base lancers were supposed to be 2wd but the Ralliart was set to be a direct competitor to the WRX, with AWD and the works. If true, then that should roil the waters a bit.
Huh. Maybe I'm weird, but I actually think the Steel Silver on Silver Spark two-tone of the OB Sport looks sharp in a funky sorta way. I didn't expect to like it.
A few more HP from the Turbo engine? C'mon guy, we are talking apples and cucumbers here. If you think the difference is "tiny" between a turbo ~230hp v. 170hp NA engine, then there is no point in continueing the arguement.
I never said the difference is "tiny" (specifically for people who require it). I am stating that for 99.99% of driving requirements and 99.99% of the driving public, 170HP is MORE than enough. So IF you feel 170HP is more than what you require, you are getting:
a) Virtually an identical car for $6000 less b) A car that can run on regular fuel and yields better mileage c) A car that can handle, brake and ride identically d) Being Normally Aspirated, stresses many of the driveline components less, for better longevity and trouble-free operation.
In the prior models, there were significant differences between the WRX and lesser Imprezas, in addition to the power difference. So if you wanted the handling, the braking, the better AWD and the steering goodies, the lesser Imprezas simply would not cut it. The new model has eliminated those differences and you really need to think long and hard if you REQUIRE a turbo-charged vehicle with 224HP, when an otherwise identical vehicle with 170HP is available for several $1000 less (initially) and significantly lesser costs-of-ownership going forward.
If it does come with AWD then that opens up a whole other can of worms. But anyone who tries to compare FWD to AWD is just not putting things on a level playing field.
Well, perhaps it matters for magazine or "real racer" people. We can make here categories, sub-categories, and sub-sub-categories to make us feel better, but what really counts at the end is Joe Smith from Florida/California/Kansas/Minnesota, making 50-80K with no children and no mortgage yet and wanting a "sporty", but functional car under 30K.
Before he goes to a dealer, Joe really doesn't care if the car is AWD, FWD, RWD, jet engine, rear propeller, or has a hole in the floor for feet propulsion. All he cares is if the car is good looking, what is 0-60s, how it drives, does it cost less the 30K and does it have nice interior (in that order, really). So he will be cross-shopping different cars, regardless whether Mike, Juice, I, or Steve think it is a relevant for comparison.
Moreover - Subaru thinks the same way - otherwise why would they really care about making it look nicer inside. If they had no competition (cause there is still nothing else for 25K having AWD and 230 hp). It becomes a job of a salesperson to convince Joe that AWD is worth extra couple of grand over Speed3 or SRT-4, or it's worth trading against better look and badge with stripped FWD A3 (and perhaps saving a little money if that A3 was to be slightly loaded), or it's providing hellava better driving experience that Accord Coupe.
Even if Ralliart were to be FWD, with its looks and hp, if priced properly (say similar to Speed3), it would be still very relevant for WRX. But it actually will have AWD, so even Mike will have to say it's relevant. Now imagine it priced at $23,995 with LSD and/or aux input or any other goodie not standard in base WRX. Do I hear screaming cashback or what? And I take it, maybe - I'm still a Subaru guy, just not blind to what others do.
As I said if it's AWD then it'll be a competitor. If Subaru only was concerned with sales they would go back to offering FWD or AWD, their niche is that EVERY car sold in the US is AWD, that's why they've done as well as they have for the past 8 or so years. I agree the Ralliart IF AWD will give the WRX a run for it's money, depending on the interior quality, as the last generation of Mitsu's interior was taxi-cab-like far worse than even the WRX interior which wasn't "great".
I still don't see an SRT4 or a Mazda3 as competition, I guess I'm just an AWD guy at heart. Heck I had a downpayment on a GTO but then realized that I really wanted AWD and came back to the Subies. I also cross shopped the LGT with the C-series MB w/4-matic, and a few other AWDs but came back to the LGT after realizing that the niche market that I was looking at AWD + MT was small. Same goes for the WRX, AWD + MT in the sub-compact/compact car offerings are small, but the pie itself is getting larger as that market gets bigger, that's probably why the Raliart is coming in with AWD in their mid-level trimmed lancer.
Yes - if you ask Subaru, they'd really like to be considered by EVERY car buyer, not only those who are already convinced to AWD. Ask them, or better - see what they are doing. Their advertising has been about showing advantages of AWD over 2WD for quite some time already - so HOW IN THE WORLD can you think 2WD cars with the same type, similar power, price and demographics are not their competitors :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
Perhaps you may be just one of the three people who do not cross-shop different drives and lets leave at that.
I definitely am one of those type. I generally push my cars right to the limit, and with AWD, I know that if I'm slightly past that limit, the AWD will help me keep it in control. I've become so accustomed to having that extra little edge that AWD provides that anything less than AWD will yield bad results I drive my 240sx like a grandma, especially in the rain and that's got about 100hp! That's why in my POV trying to compare a 2wd vehicle to an AWD vehicle is like comparing a bicycle to a ducati!
I agree with the above. The ONLY reason why I bought the WRX, was because of the AWD. The tight suspension, quick steering and powerful engine were big things too, but the AWD was what drew me to the REX.
Also, much as I admire the new Lancers, without a wagon option, I will not buy it. That is where the upcoming STI holds a great deal of appeal for me. It has (hopefully) corrected all the mis-steps of the 08 WRX - AND - comes (only) as a wagon/hatch. Sedan-to-sedan, looks-wise, IMO, the new Lancer looks way better than the Subaru Impreza Sedan.
If I was in the market for a small AWD sedan, and if the WRX and the Lancer were the primary choices, I would pick the Lancer Ralliart.
If I was in the market for a small AWD sedan, and if the WRX and the Lancer were the primary choices, I would pick the Lancer Ralliart.
Because it looks better? Or because it drives better?
The answer to the first question is purely subjective, so that's your call.
The answer to the second question is likely to be based on driving style. If you like a more on/off power delivery (think turbo lag), the Ralliart may be your choice. If you like a more user-friendly powerband, then the WRX is likely to be the choice. The reason I say that is that the Ralliart has a smaller 2.0L engine. It would be like comparing the 2.0L WRX with the 2.5L WRX. They both put out about the same power, but the larger 2.5 engine is so much easier to live with because of the extra displacement.
I posted yesterday that FitzMall had a new '08 2.5i 5-door Premium, so I went and checked it out late today. I didn't get chance to drive it, as it was close to closing time. But I did check out some details, and here's what I found:
• Front wipers have about twice as many, if not more, intermittent speeds than my '06 wagon.
• Rear wiper now has a fixed and intermittent speed. My wagon has only an intermittent speed.
• Fog lamp switch in now incorporated into headlamp stalk.
• Rear seat is definitely roomier and easier to access than my wagon. I sat in the rear of both my car and the new one, and there is a clear improvement in this area. When I had the driver's seat set for me, I was not at all cramped in the '08 model, whereas I felt cramped in my wagon.
• I did not find any storage area under the rear cargo floor for the rear cargo cover. That's a mistake in my opinion, as my wagon has that feature.
• Front sun visors are hard, and not padded like my car. Another mistake in my opinion.
• The doors sounded very solid when closing them, not like my car.
Bob, what's the rear hatch room like? That will be the make or break for me. Big enough for a flexible 65 lb husky cross to fit? She has plenty of room in the 04 wagon for reference.
I think the cargo area is a bit wider, but not quite as deep by a few inches. Having said that I think your dog would fit. Not sure if the rake of the rear window would be a problem.
She is as tall as a seatback, so if the window to seatback distance remains and headroom has been cut then I am golden!! Thanks for the instantaneous reply BTW. :-)
No temp as in engine temp? Jeez, that's pretty cheapo, it's pretty standard these days. Heck my old XT6 had telescopic wheel, memory wheel, headlight washers, temp, oil pres, coolant temp and volts as gauges!
Hey, the Canadian site mentions the new premium audio system has "Vehicle Speed Sensitive Volume". Hadn't heard that tidbit before. That's a great feature to add. Two thumbs up from me!
Looks like Subaru Canada chose urban-hip Vancouver as its photo-shoot site. Seems to fit the new image they're going for. The new WRX @ ever-trendy Granville Island:
Nice display of the airbag system:
Looks like good rear legroom:
& the hatch... don't think there's really enough room behind the rear seats for a husky... that area between the headrests & the glass just looks too small for that, to me.
A-ha! (At first glance I would've thought that was an outboard seatbelt! But w/the buckle hanging back in the cargo area, that wouldn't have made too much sense from an ease-of-use standpoint.)
aakay: you keep talking about things in the theoretical arena, but in real-world practical tests your complaints aren't panning out.
Theory #1: 4 pot brakes are gone, new brakes must stink.
Practice: Edmunds got dramatically better braking distances with the new brakes. If Subaru manages to save on production costs yet still deliver better braking, this is win-win!
Theory #2: 2.7 turns lock-to-lock on the steering are OK and for some reason 2.8 is not, especially since lesser Imprezas get the same thing.
Practice: Edmunds manages significantly better slalom speeds with the new steering, despite a longer wheelbase and increased width. That's some steering improvement to overcome those two handicaps!
Theory #3: dropping the rear LSD will significantly affect handling.
Practice: oddly enough it did, but things got better instead of worse. Slalom is quicker, skidpad is nearly the same even with thinner tires than before.
Your theories are not panning out in practice.
It simply does not matter if the new brakes cost less, as long as they perform better. Do you want expensive and worse? :confuse:
Why do you care about the LSD so much if it's still quicker in the slalom? Same for the steering?
At least wait until you can drive one, perhaps at least then you would have legitimate subjective complaints. There are no objective ones.
Theory #2: 2.7 turns lock-to-lock on the steering are OK and for some reason 2.8 is not, especially since lesser Imprezas get the same thing.
Practice: Edmunds manages significantly better slalom speeds with the new steering, despite a longer wheelbase and increased width. That's some steering improvement to overcome those two handicaps!
I don't think being wider is a handicap, more track seems to make things better in the handling department - low and wide.
Theory #3: dropping the rear LSD will significantly affect handling.
Practice: oddly enough it did, but things got better instead of worse. Slalom is quicker, skidpad is nearly the same even with thinner tires than before.
Your theories are not panning out in practice.
Wow, now just imagine how good it would be if it actually had an LSD.
STI has lower springs, summer tires, and will win easily.
None of that matters, despite all the hysterics over the "cost cutting" the new model performs much better in braking and the slalom, and about equal elsewhere.
No theory in that statement, it was all measured objectively by Edmunds.
Spend less, brake better, slalom faster. Why were we complaining again?
Juice, I got tired at all the back-and-forth that seemed to be getting nowhere and hence I stopped the chain of tos and fros regarding the 08.
I firmly believe the 08 WRX has indulged in serious cost cutting, to the detriment of the consumer. You believe otherwise and that is fine. I will certainly buy the base 2.5i version of the 08 Impreza, if I am in the market for such a vehicle....there is significant value there and serious upgrades over its predecessor. At its sub-18.5K pricepoint, the 2.5i is very good value and will evoke a completely different reaction from that of the WRX, in the marketplace (IMO).
Do you truly believe Edmunds was pleased with the 2008 WRX, after all the "objective measurements" done by them ? I would say that the whole tenor of Edmunds' road test, was negatively inclined to the 2008 WRX. As has been the universal reaction from nearly every other publication who tested the production 2008 WRX.
Spin this as you will, but let us wait for the market to pronounce its verdict and I firmly believe, based on my personal "gut feel", that the market will judge this "WRX" version very harshly. It will probably hit the lots with incentives, which is pitiable for such a long awaited model, since a typical new introduction comes with PREMIUMS over MSRP. I just hope the new STI will buck this situation, since I might be in the market for it over the next couple of years.
Spend less, brake better, slalom faster. Why were we complaining again?
Cause we all want an WRX price with STI performance - don't YOU?
To be serious - I would have less problem with some of those things, if they gave me a 6-speed manual, sunroof, HID in first installment at premium pkg pricing level, not three years from now. I don't really need more power, have no position on LSD or brakes (but it's surprising). I do have major problem with the front design and minor with rear. The steering/suspension feedback is big deal to me. If 2007 felt already too soft vs. my 2003 and they say 2008 feels even softer - I don't like it.
Never cared for the Nav - even now they make you pay over 200 bucks for a 2.0 update, which is ridiculous if you consider how much they charged in the first place and how much time elapsed since.
a typical new introduction comes with PREMIUMS over MSRP
Don't get ahead of yourself. Last "sticker plus" intro Subaru experienced were '02 WRX/'03 STi and neither didn't last very long - at least here in Florida.
You can bet first five Imprezas will be sold to some suckers for sticker plus. I do not believe cash incentives will be added for several months, if even for for pride reasons. It takes some time to buildup inventory before it's necessary. I think they'll make their financing available, but it's not such a big deal anyway, as 5.9 at 60 months is only few tens off what you can get on free market with 720+ score. Shorter term are a bit better, but then it will amount to smaller subsidy anyway.
I think it will take intro of Raliart at right price point to really bring some larger cash incentives to WRX - which is several months away. Spring '08 will be earliest you'll see any cash on Impreza - that's my prediction.
Comments
Every 2008 Impreza now features quick-responding steering adapted from the WRX performance model, with 2.8 turns lock-to-lock and a tight 11.8 metre (34.8 foot) turning circle.
That means every 08 Impreza (WRX and 2.5i) will have the same steering rack with 2.8 turns lock-to-lock (slightly slower than the 2.7 turns in the 06/07 WRX model while faster than the 3.0 turns in the 06/07 2.5i model). The steering difference is one additional advantage that the WRX had over the lesser Imprezas till date, which has now gone away.
So if one were to put in a take-off WRX front suspension (typically sold in places like nabisco for $300 or so) and WRX sway bars in the 2.5i model, what is the compelling advantage that a VDC equipped stick WRX, holds over a VDC equipped, several 1000$ cheaper, stick 2.5i (both without LSD) ?? A bit more additional power from the Turbo engine which REQUIRES premium fuel ?
I say this is one more reason to ditch the 08 WRX and go straight towards the equally spacious and identically "refined" 08 2.5i, and save a serious chunk of money.
A few more HP from the Turbo engine? C'mon guy, we are talking apples and cucumbers here. If you think the difference is "tiny" between a turbo ~230hp v. 170hp NA engine, then there is no point in continueing the arguement.
In case of the WRX, they did some serious cost cutting in the 08 by eliminating equipment (less value for the consumer, more money for the manufacturer when the pricing does not go down) that came in the outgoing model, however creatively we wish to spin it. I will wager that the new 2008 will hit the lots with incentives.
How about the addition of a lot of equipment to the vehicle that make it more user-friendly? I guess that is worth nothing. What they did was survey what most of their consumers who are non-racers (since true racers will get the STi) and then decided to figure out how to keep it at a static price point while adding in things like VDC, GPS, upgraded interior, etc. Something has to give to get those items. You don't get something for nothing.
My final comments on this subject....
2.5i = base model trim
WRX = mid-line trim
STi = top end trim
As such, the 2.5i will get the lowest HP and least features, the WRX being the middle will get a med amount, and the STi being the top end will get all the bells and whistles.
-mike
-mike
I just checked FitzMall, and their Gaithersburg store has an '08 2.5i Premium 4EAT listed as being in stock, with a number of other '08s "coming soon."
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
I never said the difference is "tiny" (specifically for people who require it). I am stating that for 99.99% of driving requirements and 99.99% of the driving public, 170HP is MORE than enough. So IF you feel 170HP is more than what you require, you are getting:
a) Virtually an identical car for $6000 less
b) A car that can run on regular fuel and yields better mileage
c) A car that can handle, brake and ride identically
d) Being Normally Aspirated, stresses many of the driveline components less, for better longevity and trouble-free operation.
In the prior models, there were significant differences between the WRX and lesser Imprezas, in addition to the power difference. So if you wanted the handling, the braking, the better AWD and the steering goodies, the lesser Imprezas simply would not cut it. The new model has eliminated those differences and you really need to think long and hard if you REQUIRE a turbo-charged vehicle with 224HP, when an otherwise identical vehicle with 170HP is available for several $1000 less (initially) and significantly lesser costs-of-ownership going forward.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121885
Bob
No more - according to Edmunds it will have AWD. 220-230 hp, AWD, better styling. And I LIKE Subaru.
You tell yourself whatever you want, but even without AWD they would be. Not everybody buys cars according to Mike's criteria. :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Before he goes to a dealer, Joe really doesn't care if the car is AWD, FWD, RWD, jet engine, rear propeller, or has a hole in the floor for feet propulsion. All he cares is if the car is good looking, what is 0-60s, how it drives, does it cost less the 30K and does it have nice interior (in that order, really). So he will be cross-shopping different cars, regardless whether Mike, Juice, I, or Steve think it is a relevant for comparison.
Moreover - Subaru thinks the same way - otherwise why would they really care about making it look nicer inside. If they had no competition (cause there is still nothing else for 25K having AWD and 230 hp). It becomes a job of a salesperson to convince Joe that AWD is worth extra couple of grand over Speed3 or SRT-4, or it's worth trading against better look and badge with stripped FWD A3 (and perhaps saving a little money if that A3 was to be slightly loaded), or it's providing hellava better driving experience that Accord Coupe.
Even if Ralliart were to be FWD, with its looks and hp, if priced properly (say similar to Speed3), it would be still very relevant for WRX. But it actually will have AWD, so even Mike will have to say it's relevant. Now imagine it priced at $23,995 with LSD and/or aux input or any other goodie not standard in base WRX. Do I hear screaming cashback or what? And I take it, maybe - I'm still a Subaru guy, just not blind to what others do.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I still don't see an SRT4 or a Mazda3 as competition, I guess I'm just an AWD guy at heart. Heck I had a downpayment on a GTO but then realized that I really wanted AWD and came back to the Subies. I also cross shopped the LGT with the C-series MB w/4-matic, and a few other AWDs but came back to the LGT after realizing that the niche market that I was looking at AWD + MT was small. Same goes for the WRX, AWD + MT in the sub-compact/compact car offerings are small, but the pie itself is getting larger as that market gets bigger, that's probably why the Raliart is coming in with AWD in their mid-level trimmed lancer.
-mike
-mike
Perhaps you may be just one of the three people who do not cross-shop different drives and lets leave at that.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Also, much as I admire the new Lancers, without a wagon option, I will not buy it. That is where the upcoming STI holds a great deal of appeal for me. It has (hopefully) corrected all the mis-steps of the 08 WRX - AND - comes (only) as a wagon/hatch. Sedan-to-sedan, looks-wise, IMO, the new Lancer looks way better than the Subaru Impreza Sedan.
If I was in the market for a small AWD sedan, and if the WRX and the Lancer were the primary choices, I would pick the Lancer Ralliart.
Because it looks better? Or because it drives better?
The answer to the first question is purely subjective, so that's your call.
The answer to the second question is likely to be based on driving style. If you like a more on/off power delivery (think turbo lag), the Ralliart may be your choice. If you like a more user-friendly powerband, then the WRX is likely to be the choice. The reason I say that is that the Ralliart has a smaller 2.0L engine. It would be like comparing the 2.0L WRX with the 2.5L WRX. They both put out about the same power, but the larger 2.5 engine is so much easier to live with because of the extra displacement.
Bob
• Front wipers have about twice as many, if not more, intermittent speeds than my '06 wagon.
• Rear wiper now has a fixed and intermittent speed. My wagon has only an intermittent speed.
• Fog lamp switch in now incorporated into headlamp stalk.
• Rear seat is definitely roomier and easier to access than my wagon. I sat in the rear of both my car and the new one, and there is a clear improvement in this area. When I had the driver's seat set for me, I was not at all cramped in the '08 model, whereas I felt cramped in my wagon.
• I did not find any storage area under the rear cargo floor for the rear cargo cover. That's a mistake in my opinion, as my wagon has that feature.
• Front sun visors are hard, and not padded like my car. Another mistake in my opinion.
• The doors sounded very solid when closing them, not like my car.
Bob
Bob
Thanks for the instantaneous reply BTW. :-)
Afew more points:
• There are now 2 power outlets up front. One on the dash and one in the center storage console between the front seats.
• In Japan I believe the rear seat has a fold-down center rear arm rest; not here however.
• Also, there was no temp gauge! I know the WRX gets one.
Bob
-mike
Nice display of the airbag system:
Looks like good rear legroom:
& the hatch... don't think there's really enough room behind the rear seats for a husky... that area between the headrests & the glass just looks too small for that, to me.
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I hope it goes well for Subie.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Theory #1: 4 pot brakes are gone, new brakes must stink.
Practice: Edmunds got dramatically better braking distances with the new brakes. If Subaru manages to save on production costs yet still deliver better braking, this is win-win!
Theory #2: 2.7 turns lock-to-lock on the steering are OK and for some reason 2.8 is not, especially since lesser Imprezas get the same thing.
Practice: Edmunds manages significantly better slalom speeds with the new steering, despite a longer wheelbase and increased width. That's some steering improvement to overcome those two handicaps!
Theory #3: dropping the rear LSD will significantly affect handling.
Practice: oddly enough it did, but things got better instead of worse. Slalom is quicker, skidpad is nearly the same even with thinner tires than before.
Your theories are not panning out in practice.
It simply does not matter if the new brakes cost less, as long as they perform better. Do you want expensive and worse? :confuse:
Why do you care about the LSD so much if it's still quicker in the slalom? Same for the steering?
At least wait until you can drive one, perhaps at least then you would have legitimate subjective complaints. There are no objective ones.
It's a shame the Forester has to wait until 2009 to get those.
Practice: Edmunds manages significantly better slalom speeds with the new steering, despite a longer wheelbase and increased width. That's some steering improvement to overcome those two handicaps!
I don't think being wider is a handicap, more track seems to make things better in the handling department - low and wide.
Theory #3: dropping the rear LSD will significantly affect handling.
Practice: oddly enough it did, but things got better instead of worse. Slalom is quicker, skidpad is nearly the same even with thinner tires than before.
Your theories are not panning out in practice.
Wow, now just imagine how good it would be if it actually had an LSD.
Also, isn't the new one taller anyway?
None of that matters, despite all the hysterics over the "cost cutting" the new model performs much better in braking and the slalom, and about equal elsewhere.
No theory in that statement, it was all measured objectively by Edmunds.
Spend less, brake better, slalom faster. Why were we complaining again?
I firmly believe the 08 WRX has indulged in serious cost cutting, to the detriment of the consumer. You believe otherwise and that is fine. I will certainly buy the base 2.5i version of the 08 Impreza, if I am in the market for such a vehicle....there is significant value there and serious upgrades over its predecessor. At its sub-18.5K pricepoint, the 2.5i is very good value and will evoke a completely different reaction from that of the WRX, in the marketplace (IMO).
Do you truly believe Edmunds was pleased with the 2008 WRX, after all the "objective measurements" done by them ? I would say that the whole tenor of Edmunds' road test, was negatively inclined to the 2008 WRX. As has been the universal reaction from nearly every other publication who tested the production 2008 WRX.
Spin this as you will, but let us wait for the market to pronounce its verdict and I firmly believe, based on my personal "gut feel", that the market will judge this "WRX" version very harshly. It will probably hit the lots with incentives, which is pitiable for such a long awaited model, since a typical new introduction comes with PREMIUMS over MSRP. I just hope the new STI will buck this situation, since I might be in the market for it over the next couple of years.
This issue is closed from my perspective.
Cause we all want an WRX price with STI performance - don't YOU?
To be serious - I would have less problem with some of those things, if they gave me a 6-speed manual, sunroof, HID in first installment at premium pkg pricing level, not three years from now. I don't really need more power, have no position on LSD or brakes (but it's surprising). I do have major problem with the front design and minor with rear. The steering/suspension feedback is big deal to me. If 2007 felt already too soft vs. my 2003 and they say 2008 feels even softer - I don't like it.
Never cared for the Nav - even now they make you pay over 200 bucks for a 2.0 update, which is ridiculous if you consider how much they charged in the first place and how much time elapsed since.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Don't get ahead of yourself. Last "sticker plus" intro Subaru experienced were '02 WRX/'03 STi and neither didn't last very long - at least here in Florida.
You can bet first five Imprezas will be sold to some suckers for sticker plus. I do not believe cash incentives will be added for several months, if even for for pride reasons. It takes some time to buildup inventory before it's necessary. I think they'll make their financing available, but it's not such a big deal anyway, as 5.9 at 60 months is only few tens off what you can get on free market with 720+ score. Shorter term are a bit better, but then it will amount to smaller subsidy anyway.
I think it will take intro of Raliart at right price point to really bring some larger cash incentives to WRX - which is several months away. Spring '08 will be earliest you'll see any cash on Impreza - that's my prediction.
2018 430i Gran Coupe