2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

dino001

I saw new WRX today. There are three strikes against it:

1. Exterior styling. We already said enough - I will add that sports mesh grille makes WORLD of a difference. The rear of hatchback looks as bad as in pictures. Looks were never as important to me, so as long as that terrible Sebring grille can be changed, I could live with the rest.

2. Interior styling. It is better than previous but hardly stylish. Low trims of Mazda3, not to mention Speed3 look way better. Again - not something as important to me, as long as functionality is there. The cargo compartment is done so there is about the same floor area as in my wagon, but the hatch slope cuts the volume down. Which basically means day-to-day groceries would be just fine, but anything larger would require seat down position. I'm actually OK with that, too.
3. Strike three. Now brace yourselves. THIS THING HAS FOUR STAR NHTSA CRASH RATING !!! :surprise: :mad: :sick: To be exact - driver front and both side are four star and passenger is five star. THIS IS STEP BACKWARDS. ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE, UNFORGIVABLE. I see "marginal" coming from IIHS - almost for sure.

There is no way in hell I'm buying a "Legend reborn" with crash rating lower than my current car. I'm crossing it out of my list.

So - this is how you get the weight down, huh? Skimp a few bars in the chassis - perhaps the mainstream customer won't notice. When I pointed that to the saleswoman, she was stunned as much as I was. Safety across the lineup was their single most important selling point. She admitted it will be much harder to sell now - with higher price and crappy gas mileage, so-so styling and lost leadership in safety, what is left? Just speed and handling. Not enough for three-five grand more, if you ask me.

I'm shocked I'm first to pick up on that on this forum. Bob - did you read the sticker at all?

subytrojan

The previous generation (GD/GG) WRX did *not* have a five star rating because its front seats were not equipped with active front head restraints. The MY2006+ Imprezas that got five star ratings were of the 2.5i trim.

rsholland

Bob - did you read the sticker at all?

Read the first link, then the second one.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19096147&postcount=51

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19098090&postcount=53

Bottom line: The '08 Impreza hasn't been crash tested yet.

Bob

rsholland

Loran, you're correct about the non-WRX getting better ratings due to the different headrests. The WRX has the headrest as an integral part of the seat, no so for the 2.5i and Outback Sport, which were rated higher.

Bob

dino001

Bottom line: The '08 Impreza hasn't been crash tested yet.

Wait the minute - so where are the NHTSA stars on the '08 sticker coming from? And they were the same on both WRX and 2.5i, by the way (I checked that). Am I missing something here? If so - I guess I owe them (Subaru) apology or at least - delay in the final sentence

aaykay

I think these test results were lifted from the previous generation, which in my opinion, is invalid, since the structure has changed.

Also, you have to distinguish between the NHTSA and IIHS crash tests. The tests from both these agencies are supposed to complement each other.

Essentially, the NHTSA tests are designed to check the effectiveness of the restraints and the airbags, while the much more challenging IIHS offset tests are designed to test the strength of the vehicle's structure to withstand extreme crash energies.

So one has to combine the results from both tests to arrive at how effective the vehicle's safety package is.

Then there are the 5mph bumper tests that the IIHS does, which has zero bearing on safety and is essentially done to gauge how much it would cost to replace a bumper (big issue for the insurance companies, which is why they do it. ) Typically the Kias and the Hyundais do well here, while the BMWs and the Mercedes Benzes do badly - since it would obviously cost more to replace a Beemer's bumper than a Kia's bumper !

rsholland

New models are introduced all the time without having been crash tested by the government. As to why those old ratings are on the sticker? I have no idea, as I'm not that familiar with the government regulations, and how they're "supposed" to be reported. I can only assume that what Subaru is doing is correct as interpreted by the letter of the law.

Bob

dino001

I know well the difference between IIHS and NHTSA tests. It's not only speed, size and points of impact of crash vehicles, but also types of injuries they look at. I'm also familiar with the engineering and mechanics of those tests - my grad school research was related to that. It was admittedly a few years ago now, but I think I still have good understanding of the crashworthiness engineering principles.

My point is exactly - almost everybody but the lowest end makes five stars in NHTSA front and side impacts (rollovers are a little harder - most get four and three stars). It is usually the case that if you can't make five stars with NHTSA, you'll usually end up getting marginal with IIHS, with few exceptions. I think it is for side impact even more so than front.

Which makes me think now - I was convinced previous Impreza had five stars since they had all "Goods" in IIHS. If those stars are indeed old '07 not '08 (I'm still not convinced it really is the case, but perhaps it is), how come - things don't really add up for me now. :confuse:

I guess all is now for me to do is wait until the dust clears.

By the way - that sales woman told me Subaru is preparing some (in her words) big public awareness campaign for the new model, involving designating some dealerships for open test drives. She may be of course full of it and made up a lame excuse just not to let me drive the new WRX, but perhaps it's true. Lets see what happens on that front.

aaykay

Which makes me think now - I was convinced previous Impreza had five stars since they had all "Goods" in IIHS. If those stars are indeed old '07 not '08 (I'm still not convinced it really is the case, but perhaps it is), how come - things don't really add up for me now.


The reason why the "Good" rating came about in the IIHS tests, is because the structure of the Impreza is sound and the ring reinforcements in the structure really works in dissipating crash energies and also in its stiffness.

The reason for the non-5-star results, specifically for the WRX, is because of the Integrated-non-active-head-restraint equipped WRX "sport seats", which makes them susceptible to whiplash. The regular Imprezas (and I believe the WRX TR) has "active" head restraints, without the stupid integrated head-rests....other than the stylistic statement from those head-rests, I don't find anything "sporty" in the broad WRX seats with bad/poor bolstering.

The 02 WRX seats are an exception and had very good bolstering (every time I drive with my friend who owns an 02, I envy those seats) AND came with active head restraints (non-integrated). Those seats should have been on the 04-07 WRX too, IMO.

subytrojan

The 02 WRX seats are an exception and had very good bolstering (every time I drive with my friend who owns an 02, I envy those seats) AND came with active head restraints (non-integrated). Those seats should have been on the 04-07 WRX too, IMO.

I like my 2004 WRX sport bucket seats with the integrated headrests thank you very much.

aaykay

I heard several statements from several news sources that the new WRX is "as stiff as the prior version", "has managed to match the stiffness of the prior gen and reduce weight, through the use of high-tensile steel in key areas" etc., while certain other un-substantiated statements claiming the new chassis is stiffer.

One very curious aspect is that Subaru the manufacturer has not come out and stated the stiffness improvement (if any) in the new 08 version. Typically manufacturers state that the new one has a xx% improvement in Torsional rigidity etc., and typically it is in the 40-100% improvement range but I find a complete silence when it comes to a specific improvement number (if any) from the manufacturer, when it comes to the 08 Impreza.

Why ? Any ideas ? Has it actually improved over the prior version ? Or has the structural rigidity actually slipped in the new version ? Any specific statements from the manufacturer that I missed ?

I believe the GD version of the Impreza had a 120% stiffness improvement over the GC, which they were proud to announce to the whole world. Why this defeaning silence with the 08 ?

aaykay

I like my 2004 WRX sport bucket seats with the integrated headrests thank you very much.

When I drive in my REX and compare it with my Odyssey Minivan's seats, I like the WRX sport bucket seats more. But it is in comparison to the 02 and other better seats (even the Civic SI seats will humiliate the WRX in the support it provides), that the 04-07 pales....please note that I am not bringing high-end seats like in say the BMW M3 or an Acura NSX for comparison.

ateixeira

I thought only the Outback Sport came pre-wired for towing. Can someone check the tow ratings for the 2008 Outback Sport?

Forester and Outback are pre-wired, harness is there to just plug-n-play. Legacy is not. I thought Impreza wasn't even for the last gen?

Bummer that they ditched VTD AWD, but who wants an automatic WRX?

aaykay

The 08 Outback Sport is NOT RECOMMENDED for towing, which makes no sense !

ateixeira

That *is* strange...

subytrojan

I love the Civic Si's seats! The USDM STi/STI seats aren't mmuch tighter that the USDM 2004-2007 WRX sport bucket seats. I didn't even notice it on my friend's 2006 STI I borrowed for a weekend. I did noticed that the Si's seats are a little tight for me if I'm wearing a sweatshirt though. :P

aaykay

I thought Impreza wasn't even for the last gen?


The 07 WRX is manufacturer rated for towing 2000lbs.

aaykay

That is true, because the USDM STI came in the 04 model year, by which time they had already screwed up the seats....the WRX and the STI seats are identical in terms of support, except for the color.

You need to sit within an 02/03 WRX seat and check it out !

rsholland

Correct. I checked the owner's manual, and it's clearly stated there. It's not rated to tow.

Bob

ateixeira

Well, that's just lame.

I will admit I've only seen a hitch on two Imprezas in my whole life, but still, why?

dino001

I will admit I've only seen a hitch on two Imprezas in my whole life

Then you need to look at my '03 and it will be third :shades:

I don't use it for towing - just for bike rack. If I can't get a receiver bar on a car it's an instant disqualification for me. I don't care if others use roof carriers - I like hitch mounted.

dino001

You need to sit within an 02/03 WRX seat and check it out !

I invite you to mine. Best seats in the world, hands down :shades:

ateixeira

I had a bike rack on my Forester.

The van is so big I can fit all the bikes inside!

aaykay

I would like to add a receiver bar (not for towing but like you, for a bike rack) onto my WRX wagon, and needed to know the brand of the bike rack you have. Is there a model number that I could reference ? Thanks.

dino001

I have Hollywood Road Runner (hollywoodracks.com). It comes with 3 to 5 bike versions. Served me pretty well overall, except straps are crap (break way to easily - poor quality rubber). I ended up buying Yakima's older style strap (new style won't fit).

Today I would probably go with one of Thule models with Zip Stick (very important for bike stability) or even better one of those racks that is has wheel housing rather than frame craddles.

dino001

The reason for the non-5-star results, specifically for the WRX, is because of the Integrated-non-active-head-restraint equipped WRX "sport seats", which makes them susceptible to whiplash

You see - here is the problem. The four stars are for both 2.5i and WRX. So somethings still doesn't add up.

dino001

Now I'm sure - those stars displayed on '08 WRX and 2.5i are still from '07 tests. It's stupid beaurocratic way of dealing with stuff - since we have nothing, we plaster the closest thing, even if it's not relevant.

rsholland

...that the STI will have SI-Drive with 3 engine map choices.

Bob

aaykay

Same as all the SI-Drives till date. The fuel-saving mode, "Sport" and "Sport-sharp".

In fact, nothing in that article indicates anything that could not be easily predicted, right down to that 50lb weight loss.

aaykay

Is there a specific Thule model that I should be looking for, when it comes to the WRX ? Is the one with "Zip Stick" a specific model line ?

dstew1

Perhaps Subaru isn't broadcasting the % increase in torsional rigidity on the 08 WRX because it would counteract its "more mature" image? Such a boast could lead shoppers to assume that it must ride harsher than the previous version.

I think this is unlikely, but it's the only reason I could fathom (beyond there not being any improvement).

jeffmc

I'm not a technical guru, but could we assume it'd be roughly the same as the increase the '05 Legacy had over previous models, since Impreza is based on the current Legacy now? From an '05 Leggy review: "Torsional rigidity has increased by five percent, while body-bending rigidity is up 14 percent."

dino001

I'm not familiar with their current model line. I bought mine four years ago - names, designs have likely changed somewhat. Go to their website for latest info.

ateixeira

We haven't seen all the Impreza reviews yet. I think C&D was one of the few that had one, and even then I don't think it was a full road test.

I'm sure we'll see some numbers thrown out there.

I'm surprised nothing has been said about the door frames and the new rear suspension. Those are the significant improvements.

rsholland

Juice, you should go drive one. I know it's not your cup of tea, but I think you'll be impressed. On bad roads it rides so much better than mine it isn't funny.

Bob

ateixeira

I know, and I've even intended to. Life is busy with kids going back to school and us spending weekends out of town at the beach.

I guess I just know I'd rather wait for a Forester so it doesn't seem pressing.

You've driven how many? 3? 4?

rsholland

3. They're much nicer than my car.

Bob

ateixeira

Maybe I should put the wife behind the wheel of one of those. She's really leaning towards a Forester, though.

Still, we have $1100 in Subaru Bucks, and that Premium model (or is it LImited) would be a bargain with that discount.

rsholland

Yeah, that's the ticket! Have Lana drive a new WRX 5-door! No turning back then!

You get the best of both worlds, a sports car and a practical hatch, all in one.

Bob

ateixeira

It would more likely be the 2.5i Limited/Premium whatever they call it.

Remember she had the bad experience with the 626, running premium fuel and then the fuel system broke anyway.

What we want is something like the current Forester LL Bean, all loaded up but with the fuel efficient engine. Just make it a 2009 model.

rsholland

Ah, you're no fun juice... Too practical... :P

Bob

jeffmc

If you're in no hurry, might as well wait for direct injection, right?

saedave

If you're in no hurry, might as well wait for direct injection, right?

And how long a wait is that apt to be?

jeffmc

Looking like '09 at the earliest, so perhaps MY 2010... the original news stories are no longer online (?!) but the post can be read at this link.

If their MPG improves enough w/DI, I wonder if that will discourage SOA from bringing diesel models to the US, since they could, hypothetically, be arriving around the same time.

ateixeira

Here's the full scoop.

She drives a 2002 Legacy L wagon 5 speed now. Perfectly reliable but a little bland. We liked our '98 Forester more. We have a 7/100 warranty and it's been flawless for the past several years. We may go the guaranteed trade-in program since 2002 models are eligible and they appraise very high.

She commutes in MD/VA beltway traffic, so she wants an automatic this time. We still have a Miata with a manual if she wants to get her kicks once in a while.

We have $1100 Subaru Bucks. Next month we will start accumulating more. It caps off at $100 per month, $500 per year. She puts business expenses on the card, so I think we'll get the full $500 for the year in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan. By March at the very latest.

The timing is perfect, because the 2009 Forester should start arriving right around then. $1600 Subaru Bucks means she can get a nicer model for less.

My practical side says get her a Legacy SE sedan, bargain that they are now. The catch is with auto it may still be boring, and we're back to square one.

I'm thinking LL Bean model because it would have all the bells and whistles and with $1600 off in Subaru Bucks we could easily afford it. Operating costs would be very low, yet Foresters are still fun. We'd still have one AWD in the household to get around.

I guess a WRX 5 door meets the same criteria, but she would get one speeding ticket a week, whine about having to use premium fuel, and you can't get leather and a moonroof anyway.

I really hope the Forester gets Sportshift and a 5EAT. Imagine the cargo space with that new compact suspension, I bet it's roomier than a Tribeca! :shades:

aaykay

It would more likely be the 2.5i Limited/Premium whatever they call it.

I think the new 2.5i is a good deal and is a SERIOUS upgrade over the prior version. Buy it. Can't say the same about the WRX, however.

The only downside is the lack of a rear sway bar in the 2.5i, which is pretty easy to fix.

aaykay

I'm not a technical guru, but could we assume it'd be roughly the same as the increase the '05 Legacy had over previous models, since Impreza is based on the current Legacy now?

The torsional or bending rigidity of the Legacy have nothing to do with the rigidity of the Impreza. If anything, I would say the Impreza was stiffer than the Legacy, because the only truly max Performance Subaru, the STI, is based on it.

aaykay

Perhaps Subaru isn't broadcasting the % increase in torsional rigidity on the 08 WRX because it would counteract its "more mature" image? Such a boast could lead shoppers to assume that it must ride harsher than the previous version.

Actually a stiffer structure can allow more compliance into the suspension, without degrading the ride (even though it sounds counterintuitive), since the suspension will not have to work to counteract the un-needed motions emanating from the non-stiff structure and can work toward improving the handling, without a ride penalty. Most Germanic products including BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc build maximum stiffness into the structure and then introduce whatever compliance needed, into the suspension.

Bottomline, a stiffer structure improves handling AND ride. No reason not to broadcast it, unless there has not been any improvement on that score.

jeffmc

With the Impreza now based on the current Legacy chassis, Legacy would not be at least a reflection on the rigidity of the Impreza? (Not trying to sound sarcastic... I've got little mechanical/engineering knowledge. ) Does sharing a chassis have little to do with rigidity?

aaykay

With the Impreza now based on the current Legacy chassis, Legacy would not be at least a reflection on the rigidity of the Impreza?

Sure, the Legacy's rigidity will have some bearing on the rigidity of the new Impreza, since there are some commonalities between the two. The rear suspension is completely different between the Legacy and the new Impreza and so are several of the cross-members in the structure that promote this rigidity.

The question is, do you have data that cross-compares the rigidity of the Current pre08-Impreza, with that of the current Legacy ? If not, then does the information matter at all, for the purposes of gauging how much more/less the new Impreza is over the previous version ? I think unless Subaru comes out and states what those numbers are, we would not know. During the last Gen Impreza introduction, I believe they were front-and-center in stating that the Impreza was over a 100% more rigid that the prior Impreza but this time around - silence !

Every single manufacturer (including Subaru) announces the improvement in rigidity when a new Generation product is announced but this time around, I don't see any such data coming from Subaru. Why ? Has the rigidity slipped while trying to increase the size while reducing the weight ?