2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

aaykay

The 08 STI looks really good, especially the silver version. From my perspective, it has covered several of the bases that the underwhelming 08 WRX had left open. Depending on how the final US version turns out, I might have one of these in my garage, not too far from now. We'll see.

paisan

Let's not forget the WRX is the Mid-trim level. It isn't the top of the line. The STi trim is the top level.

Asking for the HIDs, etc. in a mid-grade car is just not right, you want to have a Fine Resturant Dining experience at an Applebees.

I kind of compare it to a friend who orders a steak at a diner and then complains that it's not as good as Peter Lugers!

-mike

subytrojan

In Japan, Europe, and the rest of the world, the WRX is available with HID headlights, headlight washers, push button start, etc. I don't think we're asking too much for the same options to be available to us. I may be wrong, but I think the HID headlights might be standard in some countries.

Don't knock Applebees! ) All I need is an order of Nachos Nuevos and I'm set!

I've never heard of Peter Lugers. It must be an East Coast thing.

God bless,
Loren

paisan

Peter Lugers is probably the best most expensive Steak House in the country! Haaaa

Unfortunately your argument that it's available in other countries doesn't hold water with me, in other countries Subies are considered luxury cars, so it must have the "luxury" items in them. Here they aren't luxury cars and thus I agree that only the top-end trim level should have em, why would people have an incentive to buy the STi trim if it were the same as the WRX?

-mike

dino001

why would people have an incentive to buy the STi trim if it were the same as the WRX

Give me a break! Power and unique top-notch AWD drive system should be enough of an incentive for performance-oriented people. Most people don't need or even want 300 horses - but they would appreciate at least opportunity of getting some goodies in their cabin. They would even pay if it's justified. Moreover - those buying STI don't do it for HID lights or other luxuries, anyway so it's a bit of waste. The argument simply doesn't hold.

Create four general levels with somewhat overlapping price levels: basic WRX (25-27k), loaded WRX/basic STI (27-32k), loaded STI (35k+), but don't tie convenience features to power levels. You get two enthusiast-racer and two enthusiast-upscale trims, which allows you fully capture two different demographics, without leaving anybody behind. Is that really so hard to grasp?

paisan

That's a great idea, if there were enough demand. Don't forget you can only offer many levels of trim if you are banging out A LOT of product. Like GM with their pickups, etc. Subaru just isn't big enough to make a car that fits everyone's wants and desires.

Why do you need HIDs, I just don't see the "need" for em. There are plenty of aftermarket kits out there to convert them if you really really want them, heck swapout STi ones! If it's actual light you want? A set of Hella aftermarket driving lights will do significantly better than any HIDs you will get OEMwise.

Then there will be others who say, well I want a WRX w/o HIDs but I want the hopped up driveline, without all the luxury items. So now they have to introduce yet another trim level to give those folks what they want.

I feel it's all a matter of economies of scale, and it doesn't justify, in their mind another level of trim. Maybe down the road they will have enough volume to get more trim levels.

-mike

dino001

Fair enough - there is always somebody left behind. Just is it always me?

paisan

Hee Hee, that is my problem too, but whatcha gonna do. I want a "new" SVX but it's not likely

-mike

networkguy

I think AWD is great... just not compelling. I live in central Texas. With a climate like ours, the WRX AWD seems less important. The increase in cost over the MS3 doesn't seem justified. So yeah, the WRX is in the same shopping category as other sport compacts. I've managed to drive my MS3 for about a year now, without meeting any poles in the rain.

paisan

That is the funny thing, a lot of folks are under the misconception that AWD is for the rain/snow. In reality though it is very useful in non-adverse weather conditions to maintain grip, handling, stability, etc. When pushing your car to the edge AWD makes a difference. The MS3 is a nice car but for the true enthusiast I don't think it's got the staying power. I haven't seen many of them at the track at all WRXs are 100-1 MS3s, heck I've seen 1 MS3 this year on the track.

-mike

networkguy

You bet there are handling differences. With my personal experience in a WRX, I could get the butt to break free and have a real, controllable power slide. I can't do that in the MS3. The Mazda on the other hand hunkers down and sticks like glue. Two different ways to go fast through a turn. I'm not saying AWD is a bad idea. I personally didn't feel like paying extra for a car that has it.

paisan

Haaa, did they have the same tires or were you running RE92s in the WRX?

I was out at Watkins Glen this weekend with my STOCK LGT Wagon, only thing changed from stock were tires to Advan A046s in 235-45-17 and I hung with most of the folks out there in the instructor group running street tires, and we had a few sprinkles, guess what? I rolled almost everyone on the track at that point.

You say the "Mazda hunkers down and sticks like glue" same turn? same speed? same tires? Highly doubtful.

-mike

lilengineerboy

I was out at Watkins Glen this weekend with my STOCK LGT Wagon, only thing changed from stock were tires to Advan A046s in I was out at Watkins Glen this weekend with my STOCK LGT Wagon, only thing changed from stock were tires to Advan A046s in 235-45-17 and I hung with most of the folks out there in the instructor group running street tires, and we had a few sprinkles, guess what? I rolled almost everyone on the track at that point.

You say the "Mazda hunkers down and sticks like glue" same turn? same speed? same tires? Highly doubtful. and I hung with most of the folks out there in the instructor group running street tires, and we had a few sprinkles, guess what? I rolled almost everyone on the track at that point.

You say the "Mazda hunkers down and sticks like glue" same turn? same speed? same tires? Highly doubtful.

While I think its great that a tire swap helps Subarus that much, that is still another $1000 of price preminum (4 235-45-17 Advan A046s @ $282 each from TR). Comparing a stock WRX to a stock MS3, such may be the case.

networkguy

Hey, it was just a fun afternoon autocross (cones in a huge lot) kinda thing. It was about as serious competition as I am a serious competitor. It was someone elses car. I am not talking about at the limit stuff on a racetrack, as I'm hardly qualified.

My car is a real life, run a business, ferry the family to soccer games, going out to eat kinda machine. The fact that it's also a ton-o'-fun to drive is why I bought it. If I had a burning desire to play at the track, I'd probably save up for something like an Elise.

Regardless, my personal philosophy dictates that choices are purely personal in nature. Everyone's decision tree is specific and relative only to them. When it comes to buying something like a mass marketed automobile, nobody's choice is superior/inferior to mine by nature.

blueguydotcom

I'll admit the WRX isn't as high on my next car shopping list as the STi and 335i but still I'm curious if the aftermarket world has much in the way of engine and suspension mods yet for the new Rex.

aaykay

The car has just hit the steets. I doubt there is anything by way of suspension mods yet for the new Impreza. As far as engine mods are concerned, I am certain the existing mods from the current generation can be adapted fairly easily to the new version.

rsholland

Here ya go...

http://www.avoturboworld.com/content/view/107/31/

Paul Hansen, Subie-garu par excellence, is part of the AVO team.

Bob

paisan

While I think its great that a tire swap helps Subarus that much, that is still another $1000 of price preminum (4 235-45-17 Advan A046s $282 each from TR). Comparing a stock WRX to a stock MS3, such may be the case.

Haaa, you are funny. I happened to get the tires for free, however, before I got the tires, I was about to buy Azenis Sports which run $117/tire in that size, and they stick as well or better than the Advans. So that's a $500 tire option.

I mean c'mon, you mean to tell me that you don't change anything on your car to make it more "performance" oriented? That's a bit ridiculous, tires and brake pads are the simplest, most effective upgrades you can do to any car, and as such, if you are comparing a MS3 to a WRX they should both be wearing the same shoes!

-mike

lilengineerboy

I mean c'mon, you mean to tell me that you don't change anything on your car to make it more "performance" oriented? That's a bit ridiculous, tires and brake pads are the simplest, most effective upgrades you can do to any car, and as such,

Oh I totally agree with that part

f you are comparing a MS3 to a WRX they should both be wearing the same shoes!

Not when the other car costs less already and comes with better rubber

ateixeira

The MS3 has summer tires, which is "better rubber" in many conditions but certainly not for the snow belt.

Remember, Subaru sells most of their cars in the snow belt. They do have a couple of models that only come with summer tires - the STI and the Legacy spec.B, but both are low volume models.

Also, both of those have owners likely to either own a 2nd vehicle or a 2nd set of tires (snow tires).

I don't think it would be wise for them to put summer tires given their demographics.

BTW, a spec.B got the best lap times in a Road & Track comparo, beating Audi, BMW, Infiniti, and even a MazdaSpeed6. Only the Subie and Mazda had summer tires. They came in 1st and 2nd, respectively.

dino001

Yeah, but those "all season" RE92s aren't worth much on anything other than dry surface anyway - so what's the point. And they have 160 tread index :sick:

I think Subaru got some killer deals on that junk and they're pushing it even though everybody hates those tires.

ateixeira

I won't argue with you there, Subaru really does need to improve its OE tire selections.

dino001

Glad we can agree on something, after all

I got my RE92 changed at a little over 30K. They still had a bit tread left over the minimum, but boy - were they awful or what :mad: I bought BF Goodrich Traction TAs - 30% cheaper than REs, index 400 and better traction in rain (comparable on dry). Nothing special - just regular V-rated, but inexpensive stuff. I'm 68K now and still long way to change :shades: Why wouldn't Subaru find something like that in Japan or Korea really beats me - I'm sure even Bridgestone would have something better. Don't need to have supersticky stuff (if somebody wants better traction, let them buy it separately), but if it's all-season it should be just that - and better treadwear would not hurt either. Yet - they insist on that overpriced junk.

estreka

The annoying thing about treadwear ratings is that they're only comparable to the same manufacturer. For instance, a Pirelli with a TW rating of 400 may be softer than, say, a Kumho with a TW rating of 200 (and, in fact, probably is).

I wish that index were universal. It'd sure make tire shopping easier.

ateixeira

We had the Blotenzas on our Legacy. Couldn't wait to replace them.

Now it has Falkens. A much better, directional tire.

PF_Flyer

I guess tonight could be our Crew World Series party since last night's game makes me think there's a slim chance the Series might not last until next Thursday! :P

The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

paisan

Wow I guess that I'm in the minority. I've done several HPDEs on RE92s and while not the best tire, as an OEM they aren't that that bad. I'm sure they get a very good deal on em for them to be on the cars. But like I said I've done HPDEs with RE92s.

-mike

dino001

My issue with RE92s is mostly wet handling. It was horrendous from day one. I'm not rallying and other than occasional mild speeding and slightly aggressive highway ramp/street cornering (and not very aggressive anyway), I do nothing else to test limits the tires. So dry handling, albeit not perfect was good enough for me, I guess - at least for first 20K miles. But little rain I was getting scared every time. I think the traction was reduced by 3/4 of that on dry. My previous Escort with touring Michelines was handling better, or at least felt safer. Also, I read people were reporting even worse light snow handling (I live in FL, so I wouldn't know), basically rendering it useful to the tire store next block. And all of it with "all season performance" label, "performance" price tag, and definitely "performance" wear.

It probably is worth the pennies Subaru pays to Bridgestone, but it is not worth anything near the retail, even after discounts.

merrycynic

I'll admit the OE Bridgestones had better "feel" and a greater knack (and fun I might add) for being able to slide the rear of the car out, with a lift of the throttle, and the ability to recatch the grip with repressure on the throtle than the Conti ExtremeContacts I replaced them with. On the other hand the terrible performance in snow almost negated the all wheel drive capabilities. I also experienced numerous flats and they wore out progressively fast. The Conti ExtemeContact don't "feel" as sporty but stick better on all surfaces in all conditions, especially in snow. The Conti's also wear a lot longer, are quiet and seem to get good mileage. I only wish the Conti's communicated a bit better. I'm on my second set of ExtremeContacts and at under $90 bucks a piece, I think they're a great bargain, if like me you think of the WRX as the "Any Road", "Any Time" sports sedan/or better yet sportswagon.

paisan

I have to disagree on the contis. I've driven several customer WRXs with them and while better than the RE92s, I have found the Sumitommo HTR+ to be far superior to the Contis and even more superior to them are the Dunlop SP5000s.

-mike

merrycynic

Mike,
Not to be argumentative, but, from what I understand the Sumitommo HTR+'s are probably the only other allseason tire that can compare to the Conti's in winter weather, but they are noisier, wear faster, don't get as good gas mileage and aren't that much cheaper. On the other hand, I suspect they offer more road feel, and may be a bit better in non-winter conditions.

paisan

IIRC, the Contis were ~100 whereas the sumis were around ~60-65ish so that's a significant discount, as for wear? I got 30-35k out of em which is about all I'd do on any tire cause that's about when they begin to loose grip anyway. I found the HTR+ to be better than the conti's in the wet and snow. Just my personal experience with em though.

-mike

merrycynic

As of 10/30/07, for OEM '02 WRX sizes, TireRack.com lists;

16" ContinentalExtremeContacts @ $80 each
16" Sumitomo HTR+ @ $61 each

17" ContinentalExtremeContacts @ $90 each
17" Sumitomo HTR+ @ $77 each

moparbad

Subaru Messes With It's Franchise

I agree with the review.

merrycynic

Me too. In addition to the reviewers comments; I could understand going with a hatch, if they were going to drop the sedan, but, why make a 5 door with less cargo room than the previous wagon? Why not use the same 250 HP (giving it a marketable 100 HP per litre) 2.5 litre engine that the Legacy has in a car marketed as a "performance" car. Oh yeah, some of us were hoping for front and rear LSD's, not a deletion of the old WRX's rear LSD. If they wanted to go more mainstream, why drop the leather and sunroof option? This reviewer really gets the public's quizzical view of Subaru, both positive and negative.

dino001

I liked that one.

For every upside you can count there's a tawdry downside. ...

And by the way, the WRX's hood scoop looks like a bizarre experiment in trepanation.

... I spent a week in an up-spec Impreza WRX five-door ($29,833) and came away wondering why Subaru would dilute one of its core products in hopes of attracting a mainstream audience that will never, ever materialize.

Or that one

The flat-four is buttoned to a five-speed manual transmission, which seems one gear short by modern standards.

Oh, but then there are the corners. In the interests of making the WRX more civilized and more ride-compliant -- which it absolutely is -- the engineers have put the car on the springs from ballpoint pens. Take a corner at high speed in the WRX and the body rolls in big, underdamped moments. From corner to corner the springs collect and release kinetic energy in a way that makes it kind of sloppy and unmanageable. Drive it really hard and the car -- previously a model of tucked-in balance -- feels positively deranged. Perversely, all of this seems more acute because of the WRX's tight and accurate steering.

Will see what's next.

dino001

Why drop leather and sunroof? So they can tack on useless and overpriced Nav and claim "under $30K" price tag.

paisan

You want front and rear LSDs and more HP and a 6MT? BUY AN STI, the top trim.

As for the reviewer, I have had several folks who have auto-xed and HPDEed the new WRX v. the older ones. Guess what? The guys with the new ones are faster in stock form, including faster or as fast as some MODIFIED WRXs!

The reviewer is throwing out random thoughts, not facts. For instance, anytime I'm on track and "feel" slow, guess what? My times are actually faster than the times I feel I was going faster!

There isn't much that reviewer or anyone can do about it, and on top of it all, it's actually selling!

-mike

merrycynic

I think the expressed dissapointment has more to do with expectations, than comparison to the outgoing model. The original US WRX sent shock waves through the US. An affordable, reliable (at least based on Subaru's reputation), practical car with a history of racing victories closer to it than most other production cars (especially anywhere near its price), that could show up Audi S4's and the then outgoing BMW M3. The new version can hardly keep up with a Mazda.
Of course your right, I'm waiting for the STI before deciding on a new vehicle. If I do indeed buy, I suspect the STI will satisfy. I think you've hit the issue head on. When Subaru first brought the WRX to the US, it didn't have to compete with it's own STI. Of course that's changed, and so has the marketing strategy. I do worry that the new STI without a serious increase in HP may not have the same cache that the original US STI had. Back then the 300 HP was more than most expected, needless to say, it made a splash! Trouble is, Accords have nearly as much power now and other vehicles with which the STI used to challenge now have 400 and more HP. Of course the Subaru may have other charms to its advantage. At an estimated (guessed?) price of nearly double that of the base model, the STI may not look like the giant killer value it once did, and neither does the WRX. Lest you think, I'm being too critical, let me repeat, I do suspect my next car will be a next generation STI. Unless of course that dream of a Legacy STI wagon appears to becoming a reality.

paisan

Cars in general have increased in price. As for being ground breaking? I doubt anything will be like the original WRX. As for it being a "rally" car, that's total marketing crap as there is very little that is shared between the 2 vehicles other than the looks.

I don't hear anyone ripping on the nearly $80,000 Z06 Vette which is the top-line vette. That's just how things go

I'm not worried, as I'm enjoying my Legacy and can't wait for the 3.6T Legacy due in a few years.

-mike

merrycynic

"marketing crap" yeah, but it worked.

ateixeira

in hopes of attracting a mainstream audience that will never, ever materialize

The verdict is still out. Global sales are up. US sales are so far, so good. This is the worst credit situation in recent memory, making for one lousy car market.

The statement above is just a forecast and so far appears to be wrong.

moparbad

As of Nov. 1So far this year, Subaru sales are down 6.5 percent to 153,601 vehicles from 164,290 at the same time last year.

Down 6.5% is good? :confuse:

It is good that Impreza sales are up, however, how long will they last?

paisan

How is the 6.5% down compare to the other manufacturers in the sector? 6.5% down could be amazing if the rest of the auto-market is down 8%?

-mike

volkov

Need to look at monthly sales and model specific numbers. YTD sales figures include sales of the old models. WRX wasn't out til late spring/summer iirc.

moparbad

Mazda is up 7% YTD over 2006.
Audi is up 10% YTD over 2006.
Toyota is up 3.9% YTD over 2006.
Honda is up 2.9% YTD over 2006.

Being down 6.5% is not amazing in a good way.

saedave

Being down 6.5% is not amazing in a good way.

And Ford and Chrysler are down more than 8%.

paisan

Cool, then all the wanabes can go back to hondah and mazda and those of us in the know will stick with Subaru. I actually kinda liked the community better when there wasn't a wrx on every corner and every 18 year old kid got one for his HS graduation.

-mike

lilengineerboy

Cool, then all the wanabes can go back to hondah and mazda and those of us in the know will stick with Subaru. I actually kinda liked the community better when there wasn't a wrx on every corner and every 18 year old kid got one for his HS graduation.

So you don't like that Subaru is making a feeble attempt to go "mainstream" either?

paisan

I like the mainstream cause I like the creature comforts that they give you, but I don't like the mainstream community it has built. My LGT can hang with the best of em out there, and the 08 WRX is far better than my LGT in terms of perfomance. But the kids with the WRXs really have worn on me over the years with their mellon shooters and cheesy stuff done to em.

Had a nice cruise up the NJTP today... Yellow Ferrari, 911 Turbo, and I just latched onto em as they hauled by, in my white LGT wagon.

-mike