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Comments
-mike
I also have a good comparison to cheaper (by 30-50 dollars) Goodrich Traction TAs, I installed afterwards. I just started feeling some wear now, which is at their 40K+, also in rain (dry is still absolutely no issue). They feel now just about the same in rain, as those R92 (this is '03 WRX, they were still R92, not RE) felt when the car was new.
I don't know man - I may be prejudiced, but that's how I feel.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think a lot of people have the placebo effect with the RE92s, they hear "oh they are horrible" and then get on the bandwagon that they are bad. As I said there are better tires out there but for an OEM, which has to answer to a lot of different folks for a lot of different reasons.
We'll start hearing people whine about how the summer tires don't work well in the chilly weather, or I smacked my car up because these tires are bad in (insert any condition here) conditions, or why do I have to go out and buy all seasons, the car is an AWD car, it should be ready for winter.
Also how are dealers going to sell said cars from Oct to March with only summer rubber fitted on them? Heck you can't even give a test drive with summer rubber from Nov to March, without violating the tire manufacturer's recommendations....
Should be interesting to see this play out....
-mike
At least Bob and I were always saying the problems were mostly in product packaging than anywhere else. Other people made bigger charges, to which I may partially agree (infamous LSD discussion, low-end 4AT that still persists).
Good news the wild goose chase is over and they came to mama with their core product. Introduction of GT is a good move, albeit a little missed opportunity, again. But no biggy as long as they understand they are not going to break a bank with that model.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
-mike
I wish it wouldn't take that long, so definitely No.
Look at the 2007 STI Limited. Delete all the boy racer stuff, add leather and a moonroof, and they even kept the prices down. This ideal model only came out in the 6th model year!
I guess I am patient, and I knew improvements would come along.
My point back when the 2008 came out, though, and even now, is that the platform's upgrades were important, and that we would see things (options, or bolt-ons as paisan pointed out) being added back as the model years went by. That's what I was "right" about.
In other words, it was right-sized (the old one was too small inside), the more sophisticated rear suspension was key, the SAC and VDC and stiffer structure make for a better canvas to start with.
For 2009 they are just adding better/more paint to that canvas.
How was I wrong? They added a lot more stuff after 1 year. Like you said, though, there's still room for improvement. I bet the ideal WRX on this platform arrives around 2012.
Yeah - I was saying the same thing. They finally come with a smashing hit (sold out within weeks of hitting showrooms... Would they follow up on that? Noooo - that would be too obvious. :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Problem for Subaru is - the competition isn't waiting for them.
I think it would be very interesting to find out how many sales they lost due to cheapskate packaging in first years of models vs. how much money they made on those poor suckers who bought in. I bet it might not look too good.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
For sure they are fiscal conservatives. They only built the STI Limited when they figured out a way to save on costs to offset the leather and moonroof (by deleting forged wheels and 2 huge spoilers).
Look at VW - premium prices, small volumes. Noone accepted the Passat W8 4Motion, even though on paper it had it all. Same for the Phaeton.
I do see what you mean - they'd steal more BMW intenders if they did offer those packages, but at what cost?
I agree - it may be tough to offer everything all at once. I would say '09 lineup should have happened in '08 and from there improvements could have been much smaller steps - say '09 would be an WRX Ltd. year, '10 STI Ltd., '11 could be S-drive for everyone year, etc. Lets just hope they learned something from this experience and get a little bit more aggressive once Raliart takes off, especially one in hatchback form (2010?).
BTW - did you guys notice that '09 GT Legacy with manual STILL doesn't have VDC? :surprise: :surprise: :sick: :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The outgoing WRX Limited had incentives, too. Bigger incentives, even with the Limted package available.
I think "a real damage in WRX name" is a stretch, too. Watch the 2009 model light up sales records. With the power boost mags will re-test them.
Same with "abandoned their existing -product base", that's also a stretch, IMO.
Let me put it this way. Subaru has sent me two GTP offers since introduction of WRX. Second time large incentives were already in place (although mostly on sedan for some reason). Even combined with VIP program, I still wasn't interested. If I get another GTP (I doubt, as I have '03), I may really tempted to go for it, of course if I don't get overpriced premium midsize wagon from a competition first
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The Premium package on the 2.5i is a more significant upgrade then it is on the WRX. They got the packaging wrong on that one.
How often do you trade cars? Yours is still fairly new, and you're happy with it, so why trade? I guess you're looking for a compelling reason to trade in a perfectly good car.
Maybe Subaru is doing you a favor, making you wait. LOL
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I say convenience because I doubt we would have gotten more than I got via Private Party sale. So no big deal.
Patience is a virtue!
-mike
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So I tried playing with the SI drive. I tried it in "Intelligent" mode. I normally drive around in sport sharp. In intelligent mode, it is pretty much smoothed over and I am not able to notice it.
Perhaps it will get better in sport sharp as time moves on, and perhaps I need to consider either intelligent mode for around town or just learn to like this as one of the cars quirks? Or I will have to be more of a lead foot stop light to stop light...then it isn't there since you are over 3000 rpms very quickly.
Eh, by the time our '05 Legacy wagon gets replaced we probably won't have gas anymore or cars will drive themselves or something. I just wish I had gotten a 2.5GT wagon like Mike's instead of the base base model, but that's what was in the piggy bank.
I noticed the same thing after I put on the SPT Cat-back on my 05 wagon. It hits a little harder under non WOT operation.
-mike
-mike
Unfortunately, a niche vehicle manufacturer couldn't figure out how to make them economically enough to support the market that wanted them so they had to abandon that market.
-mike
When accelerating quickly the sport sharp feels fine, but slowly working through 2-3000 rpms it is a little quirky how it delivers power.
Got my first ding today. I wasn't sure about taking it to the car wash with the low profile tires and rims. But figured I would at some point take it there, so I said, what the heck. Well...the left front rim got a 2 inch long scrape on the outside. Oh well...it couldn't be new forever. I talked to the guy there...not much he could do and I wasn't being jerk since I knew it was one of those things. I got myself a few free car washes though...for the MDX.
They weren't priced higher, but they came with less. Specifically, the wagon went without VDC whereas the sedan got it plus a couple of other items (on the Canadian spec anyway). That never made any sense to me given that wagon buyers are more likely to be safety oriented in their purchase choices. In our case, it was to be the secondary family vehicle so stability control was a feature we wanted. Can't tell you if that shaped others' decisions. If equipped identically, Subie would have had one more sale. Maybe the lack of VDC was a plus to a track boy like yourself? It just wasn't a good thing to leave out given the sales demographic IMHO.
I didn't say it was, its the cost of manufacturing and production, not the cost to the consumer.
People just didn't want them, or they wouldn't have killed it.
Apparently people did want it, or they wouldn't be here whining about it being gone. They killed it because they couldn't manufacture it economically enough at the volume the market wanted. If you need to sell 500,000 to break even, you are going to have a hard time, but if you need 50k or 100k to profit, especially since its basically a trim level change, then you should be able to move that many.
I think Subaru used to be known for slightly quarky, durable fun cars that were affordable. The direction of bland styled, bandwagon offerings is kind of what Nissan went through in the mid to late 90s and it took them 10 years to recover. Now we will see what happens with Subaru.
Let's get a few things straight. I take offense that you think all track folks don't want VDC. I'd kill for VDC on track. Anything for an advantage!
Second here in the USDM market which is about 95%+ on this board, the Wagon was equipped exactly like the Sedan.
-mike
This is not the case, they still produce it for other markets.
There just was not a demand for the Legacy wagon, if they sold them off the walls they would not have killed it. There are about 20 people whining about no wagon, but everyone else voted with their wallet and bought Outbacks. That's what folks wanted in the wagon body style, period.
-mike
Subaru doesn't sell anything "off the walls" though. Until very recently, Ford sold more F150s a month than Subaru sold Legacys in a year. If you are going to be low volume, you have to be profitable at it. It doesn't worry me too much, I am okay with the Legacy wagon we have now, but as far as strategic business direction, I think they are headed for a pre-Goshen Nissan meltdown. Getting bought by Toyota, the inventor of the automotive appliance, probably won't help.
Do you really think that the deminse of the USDM Legacy wagon signals a bad strategic business direction? They were fishing or cutting bait. Obviously if the Legacy Wagon had been selling like hotcakes they would have kept it. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it.
Personally, I would love a Subaru Coupe, but I know I'm in the minority so I'm not out screaming my head off like the 20-30 wagon fans about it.
If I want a coupe, I'll vote with my pocketbook and not buy a Subaru or wait til they offer one, or buy a vintage SVX, RS or XT6
-mike
I think they are going to go down to making a WRX sedan and an Outback wagon and that will be the extent of their model line. Maybe the Forrester will remain too, as the WRX wagon.
Personally, I would love a Subaru Coupe, but I know I'm in the minority so I'm not out screaming my head off like the 20-30 wagon fans about it.
If I want a coupe, I'll vote with my pocketbook and not buy a Subaru or wait till they offer one, or buy a vintage SVX, RS or XT6
So if you were a company, and a bunch of people wanted something, wouldn't you want those people to tell you? Even Ford figures it out eventually, they are bringing back the Focus hatch.
I bet Ford brought it back due to competition or other market data, not due to a few folks whining about it on the internet or calling their 800 number.
The Forester outsells the Impreza IIRC.
I think we will see a shakeout in terms of body styles coming up.
2.5i will get sedan and wagon
2.5gt will get sedan only
WRX will go to wagon only
-mike
Here's mine.
Subaru hints at what is coming in the future with current product.
I predict that they are going to make the Outback more distinct from the Legacy for 2010. Doing so means it will no longer be just a Legacy wagon. So they dropped that wagon in advance and gave the Outback a distinct nose from the Legacy sedan to being to differentiate those more.
We may not like it now, but in 2010, when 2 very different looking models come out, it will all make more sense.
BMW folks could say "get X3", but they don't. They still sell 3-wagon. Same Audi, Volvo, even Saab. All because they have strong wagon market elsewhere so they can bring at least something here - not whole line, but at least some. Well, Subaru also has strong Legacy wagon presence elsewhere, even in Canada. I know, I know, better prices, more demand etc. I understand the concerns. They are real, but there are some ways to make up for it. Make it make it more expensive and special order (I can test drive sedan and then order wagon). Make it limited release - 500/year, which may get you off the hook in some government requirements. Make it in third-fourth model year, so you already absorbed some R&D costs and figured out market demands for packaging. Do something so I don't have to go to Bavaria and drop 40+ large to buy my next car
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If cost is an issue now, it will only get worse.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Let's see what they do here. Will the next Outback be based on the Exiga, perhaps?
Not really. The new Legacy wagon is already here: The new Forester has 2 inches more back seat room than my Outback and an H point for the driver's seat 2 inches higher. I did not buy the Legacy GT wagon instead of my H6 Outback because of the gt's engine lag for heavy traffic city driving. If I needed a new wagon today the Forester would be it.
Perhaps Legacy wagon intenders want the sportiest possible wagon alternative.
We did trade a Legacy wagon for a Forester and prefer it by a wide margin.
The sportiest model might be a Forester XT with a dealer-added lowering kit....if that lets Subaru off the CAFE hook.
That's exactly what I want. A "grown-up" version of my WRX wagon, MUCH more grown-up than new WRX, even one after changes. No silly high suspensions, no body cladding, no "all terrain" tires, keep CG where it is supposed to be, i.e. low.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
They could sell that many, but I don't see it becoming a regular production model.