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Is Ford's End Right Behind Chrysler's?

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Comments

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Oh, let him dream. ;)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    For cripes sake, you have 6 pages of bashing the Motor Company and you do not even know who in the hell you worked for.

    Why do you want people to think you worked for a company you hate so much. Do you think it justifies your opinion?

    I am surprised that you don't say you also worked for Chrysler. Didn't you start out a Dodge Dealership?

    link title

    Look, the fact you could not make it in the car biz is nothing to be ashamed of, only about 30% who try it do. But please don't try to convince the average consumer here that you are an ex employee of Ford Motor Company and have this great knowledge of the behind the scenes operation. The average Greenpea or Drive Up don't know squat about how FMC runs. Hell I have been at it 15 years and I still have not figured it out.

    I could make it a full time job surfing the internet finding people who had a cup of coffee in the car biz and claim to be subject matter experts :confuse:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Is Ford's End Right Behind Chrysler's?

    Well, seems like Chrysler hit the ground running. Ford is still bleeding it sounds like, but all the sales figures aren't going to be very good for September.

    The other issue of interest is how the UAW deals will shake out with these two, now that GM has worked their contract out pending vote of the union members.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Here's the latest for Ford: http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/02/news/companies/autosales/index.htm?cnn=yes

    In fairness, Toyota, GM and Chrysler will all post a decline for September. It seems like the housing recession is definitely spilling over to the automotive market.

    Steve: if Chrysler is hitting the ground running, they are definitely on a treadmill. I don't see where they are going.

    Joel: who cares if drfill worked for Ford or not? His bashing is getting old. I simply don't read his posts. It's a shame because he does seem to be pretty knowledgeable in the automotive field. You spend too much time giving valuable advice to waste energy on this.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, you were moving along pretty good until that last paragraph. :P

    I didn't care much for Nardelli's appointment, but grabbing Price about made up for it. Plus Cerberus is flush and can afford to fix stuff (when I notice car ads, they must be throwing money at publicity, and I noticed some Chrysler ads right after the sale).

    Mulally is lying a bit low lately and I trust that means he's working hard on cutting where he can and building up product the rest of the time.

    North America seems pretty saturated so it wouldn't surprise me to see international sales profits carrying a few of these companies for a few quarters or longer.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Steve: North America seems pretty saturated so it wouldn't surprise me to see international sales profits carrying a few of these companies for a few quarters or longer.

    North America is so saturated that I wouldn't be surprised if some marques join Oldsmobile and Plymouth in that big garage in the sky.

    Auto sales have been fairly strong these past few years, and we still have had too much capacity chasing too few customers. The slowdown in sales, triggered by the collapse in housing prices, will only make this worse.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    You are correct about more advertising. But ( and this is a big but) there is till nothing in their lineup that is remotely appealing. The bad part is they just released a bunch of new vehicles and they don't have a fuel efficient 4 cylinder vehicle. It's going to take a while to get new products to the showroom floor.

    So is Cerebus going to dump money into development and be in it for the long haul? Or do they make a bunch of cuts, make Chrysler profitable and sell off the brands?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Good question - Nardelli is going to make a bunch of cuts. I'm assuming Price was hired to sell cars and keep the dealers happy. I think Cerberus has held on to other companies longer than three or four years.

    Cerberus purchased Albertsons supermarket chain last year - they were founded in Boise and Cerberus did make a bunch of cuts and sold or closed lots of supermarkets. But they kept the headquarters here and refurbished the local stores.

    Cerberus was thinking of selling GDX Automotive earlier this year since it was losing money (Detroit News link).

    If Chrysler makes money, maybe Cerberus won't be inclined to sell their interest in it?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I was not surprised to see sales numbers down for the month of September. We were doing Family Plan last year and the numbers were huge.

    The North American market is a saturated one with everyone trying to find a niche to control in the market place. I always applaud Honda for there ability to do this.

    Like I have said in other forums quite often. Ford does not have a quality problem right now, it is a reputation problem. Once the general buying public out side of our normal demographic finds out we make as fine a car as any one else we will begin to regain market share. the Edge, Fusion, and new Taurus will take us a long way in that department. We already trade for more imports in a month now then we used to in a 6 month period. That is a good sign.

    Though our North America #'s are not what we would like them to be we are strong World Wide. From what I have been able to gather we are going to bring some European hits state side in the next couple of years.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Chrysler is making noise right now, but to paraphrase James Carville "It's the product, stupid"
    Chrysler, like Ford is too dependent on SUV's,and in dodge's case minivans.
    They have precious little in the way of sedan sales, esp small sedans.
    Plus, they lack any niche vehicles that can improve the bottom line.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    They have precious little in the way of sedan sales, esp small sedans.

    Does Chrysler have anything that gets better then 30 mpg?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Does Chrysler have anything that gets better then 30 mpg?

    Ya know, I don't think so.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    These things have happened before and not that long ago. I would hope we wouldn't have to turn to protectionism to save Ford but they did it once for Chrysler. But just because someone is having problems doesn't indicate they are going away. Ford still has a fine truck in the F-series and with the exception of GM no one else has the capacity to fill the American need for that kind of vehicle.

    Remember it wasn't that long ago when Renault took effective control of Nissan and many thought Nissan was dead. After they sold 100 percent of their financial division to Renault and all of management was put under Chosen, (sp) Yet they are still with us and they have no top selling trucks or number one cars and SUVs. But they keep plugging along. Kia is still with us after the Korean Government almost forced Hyundai to buy them in a bankruptcy sale. Ford my be with us a lot longer than we might think.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The Avenger with the smallest four cylinder gets 30 mpg according to the 2008 EPA estimates.

    I think it is the only one.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Problem is, truck sales are dropping,and Ford has no cars to make up the difference.
    Plus, the Toyota Tundra is eating into the F150's sales.

    Nissan was a different deal. They aren't burdened w/ UAW contracts,job banks,outmoded factories,too many dealers, and no products.
    Nisaan needed money for product development,which they got from Renault. They were able to produce an almost totally new lineup in a very short period of time.
    Something Ford cannot seem to do.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    well Nissan needed 58 Billion and got a lot more than the infusion of money. They Lost control of their company to Renault and Renault appointed one of their own as CEO and CFO. So looking at Sales in the US I will agree Ford is bleeding red. But they are a long way from falling below companies like VW and Nissan in the US. The whole market is down in the US right now and who knows what it might take to turn it around. But still I wouldn't hold my breath and believe the government wouldn't step in to save Ford if they looked like they might go under. Japan does with restriction on how much of a company a foreign power can own. Korea does when if almost forced Hyundai to buy the bankrupt Kia.

    I will freely admit that I didn't realize that the Tundra was anywhere near the sales figures of the Ford F series Trucks. Last time I looked Ford was selling something like 600k or 700k F-series and I didn't know Tundra had increased sales over 200k yet. But ever since I decided to retire I stopped subscribing to Morgan and Company because of the subscription fee. But anything is possible. Ford could go and take Volvo, Jag, and Land rover with it. GM could kill Saab. Many have predicted a world with maybe three auto manufacturers like GM, Toyota and VAG. I just doubt if the end is that near. Besides it Looks like GM may have negotiated a pretty good deal to get some UAW relief in their last contract. You and I may be paying for some of those union pensions before Ford has to close shop. ;)
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    One could argue(correctly IMO) that the management team at Nissan was responsible for their mess to begin with.
    Carlos Ghosn has been berry berry good to Nissan ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This time to Ford:

    "James Farley, head of Toyota's luxury division, is leaving to head Ford marketing. He had also headed Toyota's Scion division, overseeing the launch of the trendy, youth-oriented car brand. He had been with Toyota for 17 years."

    Ford lures Lexus chief away (CNN Money)

    Ford stock is up 7% today as I post this.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I agree and I thought they were going under. I had friends that were working for Nissan in California and they were all worried about their jobs. Lost them anyway or they had to move to the south when Nissan left California.

    Still Ford has a long way to go before we can close the lid on the box.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Hey, if you can't beat 'em, buy 'em! ;)

    DrFill
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I dunno. I think the Fusion is pretty nice. The Focus is way outdated and looks stupid with those chrome scoops on the front fenders. Why don't they just take a page from Saturn's playbook and bring over the Euro Focus?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Euro Focus would cost too much to bring over.

    At least the tooling is paid for on the US Focus, so Ford won't lose money on it.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    One could argue(correctly IMO) that the management team at Nissan was responsible for their mess to begin with.
    Carlos Ghosn has been berry berry good to Nissan


    I think the exterior designer at Nissan his exterior design ideas(Jerry Hirschbergs) got stale in the mid to late 90's and that led to Nissan's decline before Ghosn went in there and singlehandily solved Nissan;s exterioe designs problems. I mean the 2000 Maxima redesign or refresh(whatever you want to call it) was a terrible mistake I think. Its interseting Renault did buy into Nissan into 1999 but yet Renuault let the 2000 Maxima go as is into production. They should have just kept the whole interior of the 2000 Maxima as is because the interior was top of the line and redo the whole 2000 Maxima exterior body style before it went into production. I think Ghosn or Nissan for that matter did redo some of the 2001 Sentra exterior bodystyle before it was released in early 2000 because it was too conservative.

    The 95 Sentra did get a little refresh in 99 I think and the Pathfinder(relased brand new as a 1997 model) did get a refresh and the refreshed model did get a unique model year name called the 99.5 Pathfinder I think.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Ford, considered by many industry executives to be the sickest of Detroit's Big Three, yesterday surprised investors by sharply narrowing its third-quarter loss and forecasting it would break even for the year and generate positive cash flow.

    Ford's results -- while weak compared with the profits announced by Japanese rivals Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. -- outshone those of crosstown rival GM..."

    WSJ (paid link most likely)
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