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Not to mention the boy-racer Altezza-style lamps. I'm 20, and these don't appeal to me.
Nissan has made HP a selling point for a long time. When Accord I-4 topped out at 145 HP, Altima had 150 HP. When Honda upped the output (1998 Accord) to 150 HP, Nissan added 5 HP to Altima. At this time, Accord V6 had 200 HP (Maxima had 190 HP). A year or two later, Maxima went up to 222 HP. At this point, Acura TL had 225 HP, and Infiniti had to one-up it with 227 HP.
When 2003 Accord V6 arrived with 240 HP, Nissan bumped Altima to 245 HP (a similar trend can be seen between Infiniti and Acura). It may have helped Nissan grab headlines, however (nobody remember Pontiac Grand Prix's 240 HP motor). Clearly, Nissan has marketed it well.
To be honest, I am a little disappointed with Honda trying to stay on top in power game. Personally, I would rather have lower but more usable top end. As it is now, Accord's 268 HP can be used only in second gear, and above 65-70 mph, useful only in highway passing situations. While doing spec sheet/mag racing, it is easy to lose sight of this fundamental reality.
I know it's nit-picky, but hey, I'm allowed to be when it is my car, right?
And then there is that back up light. I have noticed in some GM vehicles that the back up light stays on if the lights are left on with doors locked. This provides an impression that the vehicle is in reverse gear when in reality, it is actually parked. But this is a whole another story.
This is to provide perimeter lighting when entering or exiting the car in the dark (when lights are on). Quite handy in a dark lot/parking deck.
I believe the Zoom-Zoom ads work because: A) They appeal to younger drivers;
The horsepower races are another story. Just how much git up and go does a mid-size sedan really need anyway? Are 0-60 times really relevant in a meaningful way?
Our 2007 3.0-liter Duratec V6 SEL AWD Ford Fusion does the 0-60 run in about 7.5 to 8.0 seconds, making it one of the slowest V6s in the segment, yet it's a much better time than some of the so-called muscle cars of yesteryear.
Our car is plenty fast for our needs and the engine is tried and true. (Read dependable.) I don't believe that people who participate in these automotive forums are "typical" owners, instead falling into the category of "enthusiasts."
But it stands to reason that there should be more Accord and Camry participants simply because there are more Camcord owners, by far, to begin with. Fusion and Mazda owners are greatly outnumbered.
The good thing about the mid-size segment is that most all of the cars are now competitive when it comes to features, performance, price. While the Camcords far outsell the rest, the qualities of the others are now apparent, too.
Comparisons of these mid-sizers amount to splitting hairs and subjective matters, like styling. To be sure, the Fusions have the most distinctive styling: They don't resemble anything else. That is a huge plus in my book but might be a minus in someone else's. (There's no mistaking the first Edsel for anything else either.
Will Ford, GM or Chrysler ever produce a mid-size that outsells the Camry or Accord? I seriously doubt it, unless Toyota or Honda stumbles terribly. That is not likely.
Still, FoMoCo would be well-advised to renew its old slogan, "Have you driven a Ford lately?" because of all the advances it has made in the last five years or so. The Fusion is a prime example of this.
I guess the point really is - what if you can have 6 sec 0-60 and still be able to expect 30mpg highway - there are some cars in this group that'll do that. If you told me that I could get 35 or 40 mpg by sacrificing that 50 hp (or so) then you would have a point, but that doesn't seem to be the way this works - with that'unnecessary' 270 hp comes the efficiency needed for the the FE. Have your cake and eat it too anybody?
I get 35MPG+ (usually 37-39) regularly on the highway in my 4-cyl Accord when running 75MPH. I guess I'm having some particularly efficient cake. Carrot cake maybe?
Who ever posted that is pretty ignorant. Many 18yr olds are not capable of purchasing a vehicle.
This according to Mazda:
" Mazda6 buyers tend to be in their mid to late 30's and lead busy lives while exhibiting a 'bring it on' attitude. Financially comfortable, they own their own home and live in an urban or suburban area.
The Mazda6 Sports Sedan is targeted at vehicle enthusiasts who believe midsized cars can be fun and youthful in addition to sophisticated, comfortable and practical. The Mazda5 5-door caters to those who want sport-coupe styling with the functionality of 5 doors. The Mazda6 Sport Wagon directs itself at those who desire a combination of utility and performance."
This was written 5 years ago, people.
They provide enough light in my deep dark yard to park between the house and the other Accord.
And then, there is the Accord, and Altima, and Camry, if not those two-seat sports cars (interestingly enough, most Solstice/Sky drivers that I have noticed are older).
When someone at a parking lot has parked the vehicle and left (assumiung the lights go off in 30 seconds or so), a person entering the lot may stop as a courtesy (or caution) to let the car back up (again, the purpose of the mandated reverse lamp). Not backing up can create a dangerous situation because it leaves other people guessing.
If there is a need for puddle light, it should be done in the rear, like it is done up front. Reverse lamp should be left for what it is supposed to be. But, we're digressing from the topic. I don't remember having seen midsize sedans with it (except those with reverse lights gone wrong). :shades:
So- your V6 Fulans etc. would also be consuming a whole lot more fuel as well - what exactly is your point, that only those mfgrs. of Camcordimas can seem to make 4 cylinder engines that you can live with or that Fulans/6s/Sonatas are cheaper? I think we already knew both those things.
Diesels may be promising, but I will believe it, when I see it. The way most folks drive, it is rather hard to get good mileage. And I'm not talking high speed, quite the opposite actually. :P
Had the opputunity to drive the E320CDI a few months back, it is car that 'feels' quick because of all its torque, a rather constant reminder of what engine braking is all about, posts similar power numbers to MBs 3.5 liter high tech (premium gas) V6, but also will run about 10-15 miles further on gallon of fuel. There is a recent article about it in CR.
May be the immediate future these clean diesels.
Mazda can say anything it wants, and maybe that explains why the are not head and heels above Honda.
Many people like the look of the solid color vs the 3 color tail lamp lenses. You will also notice trailers are almost always a single dual filament red bulb.
The outgoing Accord was also all red.
In slushbox vehicles, the key won't come out with the car in gear, so that layer of confusion is mostly eliminated, while the path is illuminated.
The problem starts when there is just one bulb for side, night and brake lamp duties.
Yes, I'm aware (I've got a 2006, my dad's 2005 was all red as well). That's not what I take issue with. It may be all red, but the "brake" lamp is seperate from the blinker. See what I mean?
On cars like the Fusion, say you are turning left. Hit the brakes with your signal on, and you get the CHMSL, and the right brakelight. There is no seperate left brakelight.
I was behind a Taurus (2000-2004) whose CHMSL was burned out, and there was a sunlight glare on the opposing brakelight when they were turning left. I couldn't tell they were slowing down to turn as opposed to just changing lanes.
That is the target audience, aka demographic. What does that have to do with being "not head and heels above Honda"? I don't understand.
Some here do not realize that Mazda does not have the manufacturing capacity of Honda. Mazda will never outsell Honda, because they cannot produce more cars then them. Plus, Honda goes for the masses, while Mazda goes for the enthusiast, and starting to expand upon that.
It's not. It's about feeling young. I really don't give a rodent's rear end what other people think of me as they see me drive by.
Most folks around 50 are expected to be in a better financial position as well.
Meaning, if someone makes good money, they will naturally want to spend it on a $35k+ compact car rather than on something else that interests them--like maybe retiring early? What is wrong with driving a car that is less expensive than you can afford to buy?
If I did buy a 3 Series someday, it would be a used one.
Mazda never being able to outsell Honda is a function of demand not plant capacities - rest assured if enough people really wanted the 6, Mazda would be more than happy to build new plants (or convert closing Ford plants) to accommodate it. Then they could have problems like Chrysler has to this day - too much inventory from using some of that capacity and no buyers despite 'lifetime' warranties that should be more properly termed 'company lifetime - subject to the fine print contained hereon'.
Besides which, the day that they can sell all the 6s they can make, at whatever level that is, is probably the same day that they can stop offering 20-30% discounts on it.
Sounds like that would be a great plan...be like Chrysler :sick:
Older folks who "feel" old, buy Avalon, the Buicks, Cadillacs, Lincolns etc, obviously depending on their budget. I just don't see older folks who want to "feel" younger (I wonder why that would be the case), would skip Accord, Camry or Altima. I somehow can't envision them competing with their kids (and their friends) in making their own choices.
What is wrong with driving a car that is less expensive than you can afford to buy?
There is nothing wrong. But in America, things don't work that way. If you can't afford to buy, you lease (especially true with BMW folks, I know quite a few). There's a $0 down/$299/month campaign running on 3-series right now. Thats not bad. OTOH, a typical buyer, putting $5K down, might pay $450/month on "buying" an Accord.
agreed, The older I get the less I would care about what others might think, whereas my 25 year old son does care what his peers think about his fancy dan SUV and probably similarily little about what his father thinks of it.
My parents own a car that, if you take sticker price, is 1/9th of their combined total income. They only have the one car. They always buy brand new.
They have other investments, such as a condo at the beach. They have said why spend that much money on something that'll depreciate, when I'm perfectly happy with this?
Malibu 13%
Sebring 19%
Accord 20%
Aura 22%
Camry 27%
G6 30%
Fusion 31%
Altima 37%
Mazda6 39%
Legacy 46%
You're wondering why "older folks" who want to feel younger would skip a Camry? I think that's pretty clear, isn't it? Have you driven a Camry vs. a Mazda6 lately?
Tell me the generally-available real-world price of an Accord, Camry, or Altima with the following equipment, and I'll give you a few reasons--actually a few thousand reasons--why people might go for the Mazda6, handling and looks aside:
17" alloys
Sport seats with power driver's seat
Ground effects and rear spoiler
I4 with 5-speed manumatic
CD changer
I guess that there is always an exception to the rule, but I certainly don't feel any "older" driving my Avalon at 29.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I guess, some things never change. Found this related article from ten years ago (on MY1998 Accord):
"Honda marketers see coupe and sedan buyers sharing many demographics, with an average age in the 30's to 50's and household income of $60,000." (link)
That would be the age to target, with a family sedan/coupe.
I'm with you man. I'm 6'4" and appreciate a roomy sedan (Accord driver here).
Mazda is not offering those discounts, privately owned dealers are. Mazda North American Operations is offering less then 10% off from MSRP.
And really, are their 50 year olds who wouldn't feel younger without ground effects, rear spoiler and 17" alloys? BTW, I've seen you mention 17" rims more than once. Other than base Accord sedan, wider 17" rims are standard in most trims (and all trims of coupe, except 6MT which gets 18").
why people might go for the Mazda6
I will keep my eyes open for a 50-year old trying to feel younger in his/her Mazda6.
There is no question that the sales have sunk. I am not debating that. However, when the 6 came out, it was a big success for Mazda. The Mazda6 is now 5 years old, and in dire need of an overhaul. Lets see how the new 6 does, and bring the topic up again then.
Who said style was truly important? You did, not I. Just because someone likes driving something sportier than a Camry doesn't mean he/she doesn't have kids (maybe BIG kids) to haul around, or other adults. Coupes are great if you don't need to use the rear seat often. That's not my situation.
What is that real-world selling price then for the Accord with the 17" alloys? The lowest-priced model like that is the EX I4, isn't it? What does that go for? Anywhere near $16k? Even with 16" alloys and power seat, we're looking at a LX-P. What do those go for with the 5-speed AT? Anywhere close to $16k?
Thumbs up!!
1. I'm standing on the corner. I black 2008 porsche coming down the road. passes me. Parks parallel in front about 50 yards. The door opens. I see a womans leg in low heels. She gets out. Average, 30-50, looking/build. Walks away. What am I thinking...HOT!
2. I'm standing on the corner. I black 2008 porsche coming down the road. passes me. Parks parallel in front about 50 yards. The door opens. I see a mans pant leg. He gets out. Average 30-50, looking/build. Walks away. What am I thinking...Car salesman /waiter holdin' onto childhood.
3. I'm standing on the corner. I black 2008 s600 Benz coming down the road. passes me. Parks parallel in front about 50 yards. The door opens. I see a mans pant leg. He gets out. Average 30-50, looking/build. Walks away. What am I thinking...THE MANs got it together.
4. I'm standing on the corner. I black 2008 s600 Benz coming down the road. passes me. Parks parrallel in front about 50 yards. The door opens. I see a ladies leg. Low heels. She gets out. Average 30-50, looking/build. Walks away. What am I thinking...rich husband.
What is style?