Midsize Sedans 2.0

robertsmx

I'm glad to have company. Not everybody is as lucky as us though. :P

That said, I would prefer plood over silvery/aluminumy plastic in *any* car. If I got an Accord with silver plastics (especially on the steering wheel), I will go for the wood trim as pictured earlier). In reality, give me either real aluminum or just nicely finished black plastic.

Here is a close up of the audio controls in my 1998 Accord


The real beauty of it is not only that its layout is remarkably well thought out, but it has stood the test of time. The minor scratches are only visible under flash, but I can't imagine any kind of silver/aluminum-looking plastic look as good after years (and 181K miles) of abuse.

And I'm glad my TL doesn't have it either (the shiny stuff is all real aluminum). Unfortunately, the new Accord does have some of the treatment that I detest (Climate control buttons in picture below, the rest appears to be similar to TL's), but still not as bad as a lot of cars out there, and it is gun metal finished (slightly less prone to showing scratches than bright silver finish).

robertsmx

Only the basic shape of the dash is similar to 5-series. The design is all Honda, with controls placed logically (it is lacking some symmetry that was seen in the past) and having dedicated functions to buttons improves usability (a Honda tradition). The downside to it is additional buttons. But I would take more buttons to a few as most would once they realize the strengths. Just see the proliferation of real keyboards on cell phones now, makes it much easier to text.

BMW goes with the dreaded i-Drive function that virtually requires attention off the road. Honda's MMI interface (in Accord and RL) is similar but doesn't integrate everything into it, just the features you should be using when parked anyway).

I also noticed (in one of the spy pictures) that Hyundai is going with iDrive-like control at the same location (in Genesis).

One of interiors that virtually everybody raves about can be seen in Audis. I detest them from usability point of view, but can't recall anybody calling them cluttered or too small (they are located well below appropriate line of vision to boot).

louiswei

What I am going to say maybe shocking but...

I don't like Audi interiors.

I had an A4 for 2 weeks and it's nothing to phone home about. I also don't understand why virtually everybody raves about Audi interior. IMO Acura has the best interior design and is miles ahead of Audi.

Back to Accord. I too don't mind buttons, I actually like dedicated function buttons because I value simplicity. I was dissapointed that Honda moved away from touch screen to the i-drive like joystick with the RL. Apparently this design is here to stay by looking at the Accord.

Also, you are right, when I said the Accord interior looks like the 5-series I was talking about the general design shape, not the layout.

lilengineerboy

Back to Accord. I too don't mind buttons, I actually like dedicated function buttons because I value simplicity. I was dissapointed that Honda moved away from touch screen to the i-drive like joystick with the RL. Apparently this design is here to stay by looking at the Accord.

That is a double edged trade off...a touch screen requires eyes off road time because you have to look at it to make your selections, but the joystick can be hard for some people to use and manipulate, especially if you push in to enter.

louiswei

But with the joystick one still has to look at the screen in order to see what he/she is doing right? The touch screen is like a one step process and joystick is two:

Touchscreen: I simply touch the icon.
Joystick: I move the cursor to the icon then press enter.

Same reason why I like gated shifter over the column one.

robertsmx

I find touchscreen to be extremely handy in my TL. However, the features I use on it are largely navigation related, which drivers are advised to use when completely stopped.

For the rest of it, voice commands come in handy (unless the moon roof or windows are open or have someone in the car talking).

The MMI is a solution to taking out some buttons that aren't normally needed or will generally be combined into multi-purpose buttons anyway. For example, Bass/Treble or Balance/Fade control. Other than that I think the MMI will find its use mostly with NAV selection (again, I prefer to use voice commands when driving, and touch screen when stopped).

andres3

And I was recently offered $3.5K for it. But this car is a part time limo for my dog.

I'll offer you 4K for it if you bring it to Southern CA for me right away!

robertsmx

How about return airfare? I'm not going to walk 1800 miles to home.

andres3

How about you rent a 2008 Accord 1-way to get a real nice test drive experience?

jeffyscott

Touch screens, joysticks???

Don't know anything about either or what you do with them, but both sound overly complex. I prefer what I guess would be considered primitive simple controls.

I think I'd run away screaming from this:



as well as this:



While this:



does not instantly appear frightening, it is also not anything I would want.

baggs32

I wholeheartedly agree. Honda is putting way too many buttons on the center stack and in odd positions IMO. Fortuntately most of the important ones are duplicated on the steering wheel which I find very convenient. I know the Honda stack sits in a high easy to read and easy to view position. But what's the point of that if all the buttons are too hard to find at first glance?

Has Honda or Toyota put the climate controls on the steering wheel yet as Ford has?

kdshapiro

Putting climate control buttons on the steering wheel is a waste. I rarely adjust the climate control as I suspect *most* people rarely adjust them.

lilengineerboy

There is an issue with the priority of controls. My '93 Accord had 3 buttons - hazzard, defrost, and fog across the top, then the radio, then the climate control. Cruise was on the wheel once activated by a button on the dash (I thought the "enable" button on the dash was silly, but okay).

Now that the car audio system has more computing power than my old Mac Plus and electronic climate control - something that was supposed to be simpler - seems to have more buttons than a home stereo remote. We are at the low point of an evolution cycle right now. The system can be electronic, but knobs for climate control are still a better interface, IMHO.

I think the great thing about the old Accord was the important things were BIG and at the TOP. In both the Legacy and the new Accord, I can't find the rear defrost without looking for it (and in both cars its at the bottom of the console). This is not user-centered design.

Still not as bad as the '90s Sienna where the audio system was at the bottom of the console and you couldn't read the display from the driver's seat. Heck, if you were shorter than about 5'8" you couldn't even reach it from the driver's seat.

jeffyscott

I'd rather have this:



rather than touch screens, joysticks, dozens of buttons, etc...

lilengineerboy

The main VW complaint is who is the genius that made both the speedometer and the tachometer have the same scale? If they just made the tachometer x1000 instead of x100, I would be cool with it. And to make matters worse, the spacing is about the same between markings on the two dials.
That particular VW looks like a base 2.5 Rabbit, I thought they had controls for at least the audio on the wheel.
BTW - VW's sunroof dial is one of the greatest things since sliced bread. You just turn it to where you want it, and it opens that much and stops automatically.

lilengineerboy

Hey I found someone that agrees, and uses the same example:
VW display

jeffyscott

That photo is actually 2005 Jetta "value edition", which is what my wife drives. I'd assume base rabbit is the same, but they may have upgraded some things.

I don't have that much problem with the numbers on tach and speedo being the same, though I'd rather have the tach be X1000, like most are. However, the speedometer is hard for me to read for some reason, my wife has no problem with it...so I guess if I drove it all the time it would be okay. (it also reads about 5 mph high)

louiswei

Nothing can beat this for simplicity and ergonomics. Still one of the best looking interiors I've ever seen.

thegraduate

I couldn't agree more. It holds up well too. This is my interior after 165k miles.

Doesn't have the great lighting of your picture, but it still looks good to be 12 years old!

lilengineerboy

Nothing can beat this for simplicity and ergonomics. Still one of the best looking interiors I've ever seen.

For the most part, I agree, however there are a few caveats.
1. Why did they put the climate control above the radio. The radio has a display that you need to be able to read while you are driving. The closer it is to the FOV out the window, the better. Also, the climate control has fantastic big knobs that are easy to reach without looking, even more reason for them to be lower.

2. Why do you need to hit a switch buried on the dash to activate the cruise? It has been correct in the '03+ as its now on the wheel with the rest of the cruise controls.

3. Why is the sunroof control no-where near the sunroof? Why do I have to hold the button down to open it?

Nit-picky - probably, but that is how things improve. Its all about Kaizen.

elroy5

Simplicity is great, but people want all these new gadgets, and with them come more buttons to operate them. My 03 Accord only has two things I would change. First, I don't really have a problem with where the moonroof button is located, but I do wish it was an auto open and close, so I didn't have to hold it down. Second, I like leather seats, but would rather them not be power operated. I find manual seats easier, and quicker. In 08 I think they solved the moonroof button problem (not sure), but screwed up the A/C vent placement. And it will probably be freezing in hell before they have manually operated leather seats. Life will never be perfect, I guess.

baggs32

Putting climate control buttons on the steering wheel is a waste. I rarely adjust the climate control as I suspect *most* people rarely adjust them.


Well you are entitled to your opinion but I don't see that funtionality as a waste but rather a convenience. The standard Ford HVAC system uses 3 large dials and a couple of buttons, as praised above by some, and the auto system uses all buttons. You can only get the steering wheel buttons if you get the auto HVAC system. Since it is harder for most to operate small buttons rather than large knobs it makes perfect sense to duplicate the common functions on the steering wheel when you opt for the auto HVAC system.

If you don't adjust your HVAC often then you are lucky. In this neck of the woods it's not unusual for the temp to drop 10-20 degrees in a matter of minutes in the Spring, Fall and Winter so adjustments are frequent enough that you'd want an easy to operate HVAC system.

elroy5

Well you are entitled to your opinion but I don't see that funtionality as a waste but rather a convenience. The standard Ford HVAC system uses 3 large dials and a couple of buttons, as praised above by some, and the auto system uses all buttons. You can only get the steering wheel buttons if you get the auto HVAC system. Since it is harder for most to operate small buttons rather than large knobs it makes perfect sense to duplicate the common functions on the steering wheel when you opt for the auto HVAC system

In the Ford, the HVAC buttons are placed farther away from the driver, so I can see where steering wheel controls would be needed there. In the Accord the Auto Climate control temperature knob is the closest to the driver, so putting controls on the steering wheel is unnecessary. Doesn't the Auto Climate Control adjust for the varying temperature? I thought that's what it's for?

jeffyscott

Simplicity is great, but people want all these new gadgets, and with them come more buttons to operate them.

Oh, most certainly people do want that stuff. I realize that I am not in the mainstream on that at all.

kdshapiro

I set my auto temp control to 68 and be done with it. Have the compressor engaged switch set to auto all year 'round. As I suggested for me it's a waste, but hey...

urnews

Speaking of gadgets and such I believe that integrated turn signals in the outside rear-view mirrors should be standardized and mandatory on all vehicles. Our 2007 Ford Fusion doesn't have this safety feature but I sure wish it did.

lilengineerboy

Speaking of gadgets and such I believe that integrated turn signals in the outside rear-view mirrors should be standardized and mandatory on all vehicles. Our 2007 Ford Fusion doesn't have this safety feature but I sure wish it did.

Many Euro cars are required to have repeaters on the sides. I actually retrofitted these to my Contour (the Mondeo has them where the 24v badge sits). The US spec says something about how the turn signals have to be visible to the side to a certain angle, but I don't think its as effective. It also looks cool.

mz3s

Doesn't the Auto Climate Control adjust for the varying temperature?

I happen NOT to like auto control. Either its a blast of cold air in your face or steaming hot air sweating out my feet. Gimme knobs with printed temps instead of blue and red and lets call it a day.

backy

Yes, there is something to be said for simple. I like this dash, plain though it is. It's ergonomically simple (note how the main controls are canted towards the driver), has solid and smooth controls (damped, with rubber grips on the HVAC knobs), and high-quality plastics (mostly padded). De-contenting has not affected dashboards on mid-sized cars in a good way over the past few years, IMO.

elroy5

Have you tried this feature (Auto Climate Control)? You set it to the temperature you like, and you're basically done. Sure, if the cars been sitting in the sun, on a 98 degree day, you may have to initially turn it up to cool off quicker, but after that, nothing could be simpler. If you're getting a blast of cold air in your face, or steaming hot air on your feet, you need to adjust the temperature, or the vents. :confuse: