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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Per your logic, because the Accord is smaller inside than the Sonata, Accord should get higher fuel economy. But it doesn't.

    You just don't want to give Ford credit for anything, do you?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You just don't want to give Ford credit for anything, do you?

    It's kind of illustrative of the problems the Detroit 3 face. They've made junk for so long, and have left such a bad taste in the mouths of so many customers, many DO refuse to give them credit for anything.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I think there are some things more important than 2mpg. I think most Americans will trade that 2mpg, for more interior space. Heck most of them would probably trade that for better cupholders. ;) Not a big advantage, IMO. But then I chose a V6 model, so gas mileage is not a top priority of mine.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    one of the reasons i bought a fusion is that i am over six feet and can fit in the back seat.
    there is enough head room and plenty leg room for me.
    another feature i was looking for was awd and i was willing to give up some mpg to get it.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    The Fusion/Milan being undersized is not the point. The point is, it is smaller, so it should get better mileage than an Accord or 6. If you are giving up interior space, shouldn't you be rewarded, with better mileage?

    1. The term "undersized" is a misnomer. Saying it has a little smaller cubic foot total than some other midsizers would be closer and even then that does not always equate to more comfort or feeling of spaciousness in a vehicle.
    2. I'm sure one could find many cars smaller inside than the Fusion/Milan and that get less mpg.
    3. A Corvette has less interior space....does that mean it should get better mpg? The 2010 Fusion looks like it will tie or beat many compact cars that certainly have less interior space. Maybe we should be complaining about those cars instead.
    4. If you are so hung up on minute differences in interior space than maybe we should look at the percentage ratios of interior space vs. mpg to make our buying decisions. A little ridiculous don't you think?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think most Americans will trade that 2mpg, for more interior space.

    Hmmm... the Accord has less interior space and also lower fuel economy than the Sonata. Actually, the Accord EX trims have less interior space than the 2010 Fulan--and also lower fuel economy. Do you think most Americans would trade both interior space and fuel economy for... what, maybe lots of push buttons on the dash? ;)

    Actually, this FE/space tradeoff may be the other way around. Notice that Malibu sales are surging lately while Accord (and Camry) sales are plummeting. Could it be that buyers are gravitating towards the Malibu with its better fuel economy despite the fact it has less interior space than the Accord or Camry?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    You're not trying to tell us that a Corvette is a mid-size sedan are you?
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    If the inside of the new fusion is anything like the old one it will be an interior volume leader for me. I really think a lot of the who has more room debate is subjective and that the raw numbers can be deceiving. I am in an 03 Mazda 6 and have found it to be ample up front. With the extra leg room in the stretched Fusion is would be perfect. More importantly you can't beat the storage layout, the trunk, and the trunk pass through. The trunk pass through has to be the biggest hole on the market and keeps me from having to be a "sport wagon" type.
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    i am a ford guy and i really like one feature they have that none of the others do, the keypad entry.
    i like not having to carry my keys with me when i leave the vehicle.
    drop the keys somewhere inside and retrieve them when you need them.
    if the kids need something out of the car, they know the combination and can get in to get it without the keys.


    Nissan has Ford trumped in this area. They have a system called "intelligent key" where you don't even have to take your keys out of your pocket. Instead of there being a keypad on the outside of the door, there's a single button that unlocks/locks that door and/or the other doors on the vehicle if the key fob is within about 3 feet of the vehicle.

    In fact, the '07 Camry and '09 Mazda6 have adopted the same technology. However, it isn't standard on the Camry or 6, but it is standard on the Altima.

    In terms of technology, Ford has Sync going for it. It's a great technology, and hopefully it'll trickle down to other car companies shortly. Most other car companies have started to adopt the "intelligent key" system, so expect that to be a standard feature on most mid to high end cars soon. Nearly all the luxury brands have had this technology for several years now (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, etc.) I applaud Nissan for bringing it to mainstream AND making it standard equipment on the Altima.

    Ford's keypad entry system is dated now. :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i guess you missed my point. with the keypad, which nissan also used to have, you don't have to carry anything; no key, no fob, or whatever.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    i guess you missed my point. with the keypad, which nissan also used to have, you don't have to carry anything; no key, no fob, or whatever.

    You do if you want to start the car and go anywhere.

    Interesting sideline: intelligent keys that stay in the pocket also make carjacking more difficult. You get out of the car, the "key" goes with you. Carjacker gets 50 feet and the engine cuts off, bwa ha ha! :shades:
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Nissan has Ford trumped in this area. They have a system called "intelligent key" where you don't even have to take your keys out of your pocket.

    The 2010 Taurus now has this, and the new second gen door touchpad (no visible buttons like the old one) so expect it to make it into other mainstream Ford vehicles very soon. Like you said, those "intelligent keys" have been around in luxury marques for quite some time so it's not like Nissan has done anything ground breaking here like Sync or developing their own hybrid technology. All they did was bring a convenience feature to the mainstream and they weren't even the first to do it.

    You're forgetting that with the exterior keypad you can do things like go out in the garage, or street, and start your vehicle then lock it and go back in the house while it warms up. You can't do that with the "intelligent key" systems IIRC. It unlocks the doors if you try to close them while the keys are in the vehicle right? I live in a pretty darn safe neighborhood where locking the doors of a running, unattended vehicle isn't really necessary. But there are kids around and I wouldn't put it past one of them to hop in and start playing with things as kids like to do. Therefore, I go out and start it, hop out, close the door, hit 7/8 and 9/0 at the same time, and the doors are locked and I'm reassured that the vehicle is safe and warming up for me and the family. ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Interesting sideline: intelligent keys that stay in the pocket also make carjacking more difficult. You get out of the car, the "key" goes with you. Carjacker gets 50 feet and the engine cuts off, bwa ha ha!

    Then realizes what just happened, gets out, runs 50 ft back to you, beats you down (or worse), grabs the "intelligent key" out of your pocked while you're lying on the ground, runs 50 ft back to your car, and drives away. Sounds great to me!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Most other car companies have started to adopt the "intelligent key" system, so expect that to be a standard feature on most mid to high end cars soon. Nearly all the luxury brands have had this technology for several years now (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, etc.) I applaud Nissan for bringing it to mainstream AND making it standard equipment on the Altima.

    Not so standard; the only Altimas equipped with the Smart Entry system allow you to push the button on the door-handle. My friend has a new 2009 Altima 2.5S, which she has to push lock/unlock on the fob. It does have keyless start, however.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "Warming up" is outdated, as well. :P
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    My friend has a new 2009 Altima 2.5S, which she has to push lock/unlock on the fob. It does have keyless start, however.

    You can either press button on the fob or the button on the door.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    There was no button on the door of her car, IIRC.

    Her car is a 2.5, not a 2.5S, I believe, as I'd stated earlier.

    Intelligent key is NOT standard on all Nissan Altima Sedans.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    "Warming up" is outdated, as well.

    You obviously don't live in the NorthEast. :shades:
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    Well, he said 2.5S not 2.5.

    BTW, 2.5 doesn't even have a CD player. :cry:
  • robsisrobsis Member Posts: 162
    They're carjackers....don't think they'd be that smart, but that is JMHO. :)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    In case anyone cares :) Toyota has revealed the facelift for the Camry. Now the grille on the regular Camry looks to take cues from the Venza, and hybrid from the Prius - makes sense.

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/2010-camry-introduced.aspx

    Not feeling either of the Toyota intros so far, Camry and HS 250h, with the latter really falling on the scale.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Haha, well, I'm "he" who said 2.5S. I meant 2.5. It's hard to tell with her car since she has lots of aftermarket equipment (moonroof, leather, nav). I just distinctly remembered her car not having the intelligent entry/exit.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Pretty mild for a mid-gen refresh, compared to cars like the 2009 Sonata and the 2010 Fusion/Milan. At least the 2010 Camry joins most of the rest of the mid-sized sedans by offering ESC/traction as standard equipment, and the power increase on the I4 makes it more competitive with the rest of the class.

    I thought the grille on the Venza was really ugly, but the new grille on the Camry doesn't look quite as bad. The front of the hybrid reminds me a lot of the previous-gen Accord.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    From the Toyota press release:

    The Camry Hybrid, equipped with Toyota's industry-leading Hybrid Synergy Drive,

    Hmm, industry leading in what way? I'm sure it leads the industry in something but to just say that it's industry leading in general is plain wrong now. And they're mad at Ford for saying the Fusion hybrid has the highest FE for a mid-sized car?

    The IC doesn't look much different to me and might be even a little more boring to look at now. Hard to tell from the pics they have on their media site. The hybrid's lower fascia is just plain horrid IMO. The whole car has a rounded off theme to it and that lower fascia is stretched out to the wheels and squared off. Did Spongebob Squarepants help with that part of the design? :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    you need to go back to some prior posts to in order to understand what i was saying.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i have started seeing ads for the altima and camry having $1,500 rebates.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    The 2.5 is an "order only" model, so I really don't consider it part of the model lineup.

    I think you're correct about the 2.5 model though. I'll have to double check Nissan's site to see about that though.

    And, it's good to see Ford is implementing the smart key technology on the 2010 Fusion. They're really making a push to get back their lost market share aren't they?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Toyota has had this for a while now; and Nissan just recently, I think.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i thought maybe it was tied to all the 'buzz' about the fusion lately.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Looking at some of the new D3 metal they are showing off at the auto show, if this stuff can hold up better than in the past, maybe Detroit can pull off another close call save. It would be nice to shop for cars and have a bunch of them that you like rather than always having to revert to Toyota and Honda because you are afraid of D3 problems. I remember when I was younger it was kind of neat to shop a lot of different alternatives that you wouldn't mind owning.
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    The smart keys are horrible. We rented an 09 Altima and almost locked our "smart key" in the car a couple of times. It's all pointless, keys work just fine.

    You have no idea what you're talking about...you cannot lock the car when the key is inside even in the trunk.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    You beat me to it. Most mfgrs smart key systems have a feature that you cannot lock the smart key fob in the car, including Nissan. Mazda is that way too. I have no idea what vanman1 is talking about.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't know about it being "order-only." I just know my friend from church was looking at a 2.5S/Convenience, but a competing dealer had the 2.5 with leather, moonroof, and DVD-Nav added aftermarket, and it was "on sale" for $2,000 cheaper than the competing 2.5S/Convenience Pkg at the first dealer.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ford's keyless start (available in the MKS and 2010 Taurus) is the most advanced of any system because it's also tied in to the disappearing keypad in the B pillar. Not only does it automatically unlock the doors when they're touched, the system DOES allow you to lock the fob in the car with the keypad - but it disables the fob at the same time so a thief can't break the window and drive off. When you use the keypad to unlock the car it reactivates the fob. Now that's a handy feature.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    I remember starter buttons on cars built before WW2, and some even into the 1950s--with doors that didn't lock. The KEY was a terrific advance.

    Thirty years into the future, someone will invent the KEY all over again, and it will be hailed as the greatest advance since the electric starter.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    You obviously don't live in the NorthEast.

    Uh, no...but we do have cold weather from time-to-time here in Wisconsin. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I would take the weather we get here in Connecticut over Wisconsin any day! Iv'e seen the un happy cows up there in the California Cheese commercials! :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With forecast lows this week as low as 8 degrees as far south as Birmingham, AL... I'm beginning to be glad I don't live any further north!! :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I know it's technically a large sedan, but, this car is sweeet!! Great job Ford! Interior is identical to the MKS, but, who cares! Exterior styling is great too. I give it an A.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    With forecast lows this week as low as 8 degrees as far south as Birmingham, AL... I'm beginning to be glad I don't live any further north!!

    Yeah...we are projected to be -3 on Wednesday without the wind. It will feel like -20 with the wind chill. I'm gonna burn all my gas just trying to warm up my car in the morning!! Not looking forward to it...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Wimps! Forecast low for the Twin Cities Wed/Thurs without the wind chill is -20 F. :P

    P.S. A car warms up faster while driving. There was an invention within the recent past (speaking of technology like keyless start) that helps drivers who need to drive a cold car on days like this. It's called Coat, Hat, Gloves. Works very well! ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Wimps!

    I can take it. I just don't like it!! If my wife was not big into snow sports (skiing/snow boarding) and all my family were not up here, I would be looking to migrate my flock down south.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    There was an invention within the recent past (speaking of technology like keyless start) that helps drivers who need to drive a cold car on days like this. It's called Coat, Hat, Gloves. Works very well!

    Dont forget a cup of hot coffee!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Unfortunately, it doesn't help with seeing through windows crusted with ice and snow both inside and out, not to mention someone's breath fogging everything up. :shades:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Oh yeah, I forgot to add "Ice Scraper" to the previous list. :) Also "Defroster." It helps too to learn how to breathe shallowly, through the nose, while the car is warming up on the really cold days. I find that within a mile or so, the defroster has no problem keeping the windshield clear w/o the shallow breathing trick (assuming you first clear snow/ice off the air intake), and the wires in the back window work pretty fast also.

    The bun warmers help a lot also. Had some on a 3 Series but just said good-bye to that. Which leads to a (on-topic!!) question: which mid-sized sedans offer seat warmers, with cloth and with leather? I'd guess all of them with leather at least, but maybe some with cloth too (not as important though, IMO). Even some compacts now offer bun warmers with cloth and leather seating.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I think the Sonata does in some trims, doesn't it? I'm hoping the 2010 Fusion will.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Not likely. Ford typically only offers seat warmers with leather seats. Not sure why.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Not likely. Ford typically only offers seat warmers with leather seats. Not sure why.

    The heated leather seats in our SEL AWD 2007 Fusion work like a dream, have high-low setting, too.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    There was an invention within the recent past (speaking of technology like keyless start) that helps drivers who need to drive a cold car on days like this. It's called Coat, Hat, Gloves. Works very well!

    Ah, had not thought of this archaic "warm the car up" practice really being about babying the driver and not the vehicle.

    Of course, I'm somewhat coddled myself with an attached garage on the really cold days it is maybe ~20 degrees warmer in there than outside.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Ford typically only offers seat warmers with leather seats. Not sure why.

    Bigger markup. This isn't unique to Ford.
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