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I've seen reviewers write about whether or not a car has stability control or not. I've even seen a few things about how intrusive some systems are, compared to others. But I have yet to see anyone actually test the different systems, to see which are more likely to prevent a crash. Would the more intrusive systems be safer? Or is there more to it? Would a dealership let you test the system during a test drive? :surprise:
I've read some test drive reports where the driver intentionally tried out the ESC. I've driven many cars with it and I don't think I've ever activated it. Personally I think crash safety is more important than ESC, because I have control over how I drive a car and can teach my kids how to drive (although it doesn't mean they'll listen). But I can't control someone else driving recklessly. However, that being said I would prefer to have ESC than not have it. On most cars, it can be turned off if you don't believe in it.
Oh, and I also read Car and Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, AutoWeek, and National Geographic, not to mention Foreign Affairs and The Economist, as well as Wired and Vanity Fair and GQ. And People and Entertainment Weekly.
What, exactly, was your point?
For what it's worth, CR lists among the most reliable midsize sedans the Sonata and Fusion, and the Camry Hybrid, but not the regular Camry or Accord. So perhaps it might be more reasonable to ask why anyone who does read CR doesn't drive a Ford or Hyundai.
I'm tired of taking trollbait. I'm outta here.
the accord and the fusion have the exact same tire.
the powertrain chart has some interesting statistics.
it is ok to have a different perspective than someone else.
if they are going to print toyota camry, except v-6, wouldn't if be more accurate to report fusion I4 and V6, sonata I4 and V6, camry I4.
i guess that subtlety is missed by most people.
i'm sure if you asked most camry V6 drivers, they would think it is a cr recommended vehicle.
The dash is way busy, the handling is so-so and the looks are probably the most drab in the mid-size segment.
I suspect CR doesn't like to take chances on a Mazda or a Chevy or a Nissan because they would rather go with the reliability they have stuck with in Honda and Toyota for 10 years.
Fact is the CamCord juggernaut is not what it used to be. The midsize segment is full of good cars now. CR is not the place for enthusiasts to find cars anyway.
Interestingly, Accord is no longer one of the most reliable mid-sized cars, at least according to CR. Mid-sized sedans that have higher predicted reliability per CR are the Optima (yep, a Kia!), Fusion/Milan, and the Camry and Altima Hybrids. In another surprise, the non-hybrid Camry and Altima are just average in predicted reliability--bested by the likes of Accord, Aura, Malibu, G6 (I4), and Sonata.
I agree though that the mid-sized sedan segment is full of good cars, and reliable ones at that. The only mid-sized sedans with below-average predicted reliability per CR are the Passat, G6 V6, and Avenger (the only one that is "much worse than average").
I think those guys are up a price bracket, along with the Lexus IS and GS AWDs and the Infiniti G37
Was in no real hurry to buy my 04 Accord exl was just fine but seemed like the time to buy as we would have needed to trade in 12 months or so any how so why not now while the dealers are hurting than in a yr when things hopefully will be better. So started with this list
accord
camary
fusion milian
altima
g6
g8
vibe/matrix
sonata
mazda 6
forester
malibu
impala
Think thats it we took about a month of test driving and narrowing down to the final 3 then took a second drive ALL WERE GREAT
some that we drove some where taken off the list due to previous experince or dealers
accord - its accord noise issues and the current ugliness shot it down
camry-this was number one choice going in to final 3
fusion milian Milan number 2 going in to final 3
altima- just didnt like the interior seemed cheaper than accord and the price was out of line with camary
g6-didnt like the looks
g8-same here and we loved our 03 grand am
vibe/matrix - great car for a one car family lots of space and good looks
sonata - wife just couldnt buy a hynduai
mazda 6 - same here bad experince wtih mazda dealers in the past
forester - liked it but the 100% forigen build turned us off
malibu number 3 going in to the last phase
impala - old looking but a good solid car (my mother just had to trade her wrecked buick and got a new 08 and it is ok good milage and space but just looks a little old
so Camry xle or SE V6
Milian
Malibu
Where the 3 we started end to the last phase with
Camry - xle nice car hated the stupid rear reclining seats vice split Hello its a camry not a rolls royce and the colors both choices were light carpet colors looks nice but not with teenagers in fact every new one we looked at the leather was already scuffed and carpet dirty
Milan - only real complaints was the weak v6 and the rear seat head rests to low for normal people (the mercury dealer was GREAT)
Malibu LTZ V6 Liked both the lt2 v6 and the lt2 4 cyl and could have taken either one but in the end the ltz won out esp with the pricing
but unlike 5 years ago when we went with accord there were many good choices and what you were down to was littel things color seats and of course price (the ltz was over 4 k less than the best price on a camry the milian about the same price or within 1k
No bad choices here really at all very inpressed with most of them and really with the new 4cyl engines they have came a long way in the last decade
Malibu LTZ V6 Liked both the lt2 v6 and the lt2 4 cyl and could have taken either one but in the end the ltz won out esp with the pricing
g6-didnt like the looks
g8-same here and we loved our 03 grand am
Ok, I can understand not being in love with the new Accord's looks, but then to say you loved the 03 Grand Am's looks. :confuse: Boggles the mind.
Sorry excuse me lol!! hey at the time it was pretty nice we had the se ver with all the sports stuff on it. had it for 7 years and only was in the shop for 1 day the grand am was one of the sporty sedans at that time
... and in fact we sold it to a friend of the wife and she drove it 3 more years then was passed on as college car for one of her kids that still has it so far nothing but tires brakes on it
the camry was over 27500 otd
the inside was still nice and all the honda ness of it was still there sure it will be bullet proof car
They all are mid-size sedans.
I have high hopes that cars like the Malibu and Fusion, which are fully competitive in the midsize sedan market, may be able to bring their manufacturers into a stronger position soon.
If they don't, I suspect Hyundai/Kia will be in the strongest position to take advantage of the US brands' decline, since the US brands (with the exception of the Aura and the newest Malibu) have mostly competed at the low end of the midsize price range for most of the last decade. (Note: I'm talking about real-world transaction prices such as Edmunds' TMV or the actual selling prices found on CarsDirect.com, not MSRP.)
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Aura, Galant, Sebring, and Avenger go bye-bye though. Personally I think the G6 should go before the Aura, especially with a slick Opel-based replacement waiting in the wings for the Aura and the G6 being the worst of the General's mid-sizers. Maybe it's Pontiac that should get the axe, not Saturn, since Pontiac doesn't have any unque products except the G8, and that could easily go to Chevy.
I had a rental Galant for a few days back in December, and it was nothing special. Mitsubishi is another brand that has depended on deep discounts and special finance deals (such as balloon notes), at least around here, and our local Mitsu dealer just vanished into thin air last week. I suspect that the local Hyundai dealer will pick up conquest sales here.
It's starting to look like GM may be spinning off its European operations--if so, then the Saturn brand could survive as essentially the US dealer network for an independent Opel. But it would be tough--I think Opel's been part of GM since about 1922.
... and in fact we sold it to a friend of the wife and she drove it 3 more years
When did you buy your 03 GrandAm, 1999???
There is nothing in the wings waiting for Saturn. Remember, GM is letting the brand die by 2012 unless the become an independent brand, or someone buys them....
The pictures I have seen of the Chinese model are amazing.
went with a lt2 v6 that another dealer had at about 1500 less but this ltz had been on the lot for 90 days and they really came off quickly on the price (total dicker time was about 10 mins and all i said was " how much off the costco price can you give me lol )
which color did you go with we were between the silver and the grey and the silver was the choice for us this time.
I had no interest in a 4 cyl. even with gas where it was. I have always driven strong V6 engines, not going to stop now.
Only things I wish I had were climate control and fog lights. Oh well.
My wife encouraged me to get the 1992 Grand Am. I guess she liked its looks also. Instead, I went more practical and leased a '92 Sentra 2-door ($149/month, nothing down, too good to pass up). It was a good little car, just not as good looking as that Grand Am. One thing GM has done well over the years IMO is their sedan styling is, overall, quite good. I think the Aura, Malibu, even G6 are all good looking cars. And now the mechanicals and quality are rising up to match the styling.
Amen to that. And add the CTS (it's midsize) to the list.
I know the one I pictured is newer!!
One thing GM has done well over the years IMO is their sedan styling is, overall, quite good.
They've had a few fumbles, I think, but overall, yes they've been ok. The 90s were a quirky period for some of them, while others were pretty dull!
Aura and Malibu are both very nice looking cars, G6 is nice on the outside but doesn't have as nice an interior in my eye.
My branch manager sat in my Malibu last week and said, wow! He was shocked by the quality of the Malibu interior. Thay was exactly my reaction when I first sat in one. I never would have dreamed I would buy a Malibu before the new model came!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is an area where GM has made tremendous progress. I hope to see more of it.