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This post makes no sense. If a Fusion is expected to hit EPA numebrs, why wouldn't a Camry?
"Ever thought maybe it is loud? I owned an Accord in 2000 and it was not this "refined" sounding machine that some want others to believe. This car was loud at full throttle. I have driven both a 4cyl Fusion automatic and have also test drive an 06 Accord 4cyl Automatic. Its all in what you want to believe. Both of these vehicles exhibit engine noise when pushed."
You were referring to a racket created by revving up the Accord. That is what I don't believe.
I believe the Accord's 4 cyl engine is universally accepted to be one of the best 4 cyl gas engines out there, as well as an engine that likes to be revved up while sounding very smooth at high revs. In fact that has been a strong point of all Honda VTEC and iVTEC engines. Not noise.
Okay, so the expected increase is .5 to 1.5 and not the 2-3 mpg someone earlier stated. That makes it clearer.
-thene <--nissan biased
How do I know this you ask? Owning a couple of of them helps but also because that is what the relative difference is in the EPA hwy ratings - UNLESS, of course, you really want to try to sell the rather preposterous proposition that the EPA itself is also somehow biased specifically against Ford products?
Fact is that not only does the DT cost its owners some gas it also costs them a rather significant chunk of HP. The prices of progress, or should I say the lack of it!
As long as you like big engines that require premium fuel :P
THEY DON'T, my 240hp 03 Altima been running just fine on regular for about 75000 miles now - as in the Toyota engine, the owners manual simply recommends premium 'for maximum performance'.
So you bought a performance motor and use crummy gas? I think there is some lost logic here. Do you change your oil at the "recommended" intervals or do you wait 3 years between changes because it "runs fine?"
If the manual says to use premium, for comparison purposes it uses premium.
Would suggest to you that most Camry V6 drivers put regular in their cars simply because they can save a few bucks every fillup, don't hear or feel anything different with 'crummy' gas, and then by your assumptions of ignorance must wait until their oil pressure drops to 0 before they ever even open the hood again. :confuse: ">
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
and I'm sure mazda knew those who really were interested in modding their cars would and would be willing to pay extra for it which means more money for mazda by offering their own CAI. and there are some places where you may not want a CAI... for example very rainy areas that are flood prone. one other point... imagine mazda said to customers "we have a part that costs extra that will slow down your car but will make it a bit quieter at wide open throttle." that would be a hard sell imo. whereas it would be far more palatable if they were to say "we have a CAI which adds power and torque while giving it a more throaty intake note." which would you rather try to sell?
I guess I lump that in the same category as those who buy the performance suspension and then replace the tires with either the cheapest thing available or a highway tire and wonder why their car doesn't handle as well as it used to.
Like I said before, manufacturers make cars to meet the needs of the masses. People then optimize the car for uses as they see fit. I think that if I wasn't going to spring for premium, I would go for a car that didn't require (or "recommend") it. I'm glad your vehicle is working out well for you.
though supposedly this new VQ with the VVTL technology (i think thats the acronym) that they are going to be using in the new Infiniti G37 is supposed to be more fuel efficient than its 3.5L bretheren.
btw, i don't have a car with a VQ now - i have a 4cyl Nissan Sentra Spec-V (though i sold nissans for 2 years and had plenty of enjoyment behind the wheel of an altima/maxima/z)
and now, back to your regularly scheduled honda vs. ford thread!
-thene :P
I think I actually prefer the Spec-V to the Maxima. Well sized, good torque, and a real limited slip differential. Oh and a nice 6 speed transmission. I also liked the Altima SE-R of the last body style.
Where did it say it wasn't street legal? Isn't it possible to modify an engine to that extent and still drive it on the street? Some of the Calloway and Lingenfelter Vettes and the Hennessey Vipers come to mind.
It is kind of impressive that the Duratec 30 was selected for that purpose.
Now that's funny
it really is a fun car to drive, plus it gets good gas mileage!
-thene
it really is a fun car to drive, plus it gets good gas mileage!
The factory limited slip makes it a great car for autocross and HPDEs. My friends and I had a few earlier (classic?) SE-R/NX200 (SR20s) and they were very fun and easy to drive on the track. The limited slips really made a big difference coming out of the turns.
My definition of street legal refers to a 50 state inspection pass. And my point was anyway, give me $20K to modify an engine and I can turn any engine into a monster.
Now that's funny .
+1
1. Reputation for reliability
2. Comfort
3. Ergonomics/ease of operation
4. Passing/merging power
5. Handling
6. MPG
7. Smooth ride
8. Looks/style
9. Price
10. Brand name
1. Comfort
2. Handling
3. 4 cylinder w/5 speed automatic
4. Looks/style
5. Price
The remaining items on your list either did not matter, I saw little difference among them, and/or felt any would be adequate.
2 Room/Comfort
3 Safety
4 Handling/Performance
5 Reliability
6 Price
7 Interior Looks/Style
8 Exterior Looks/Style
Revised list:
1. Reliability
2. Safety
3. Comfort
4. Ergonomics
5. Power
6. Handling
7. MPG
8. Ride
9. Looks (interior/exterior)
10. Price
Really liked the fact that I was going from a car with 1 airbag to a car with 8 airbags.
1. Reputation for reliability
2. Comfort
3. Ergonomics/ease of operation
4. Passing/merging power
5. Handling
6. MPG
7. Smooth ride
8. Looks/style
9. Price
10. Brand name
I think one and 10 are really the same.
but mine would go
1. brand name/reliability--what good is a car thats always in the shop?
2. size/interior room-- have to think about the family
3. price--not necessarily the cheapest, more of a most bang for the buck
4. looks/style-- have to look good behind the wheel :shades:
5. handling, power
6. comfort-- I think all the current mid sizes are comfortable, not going to split hairs over which is the most
7. standard feature vs. options--goes to the whole value thing
8. MPG-- gas is getting expensive
9. ergonimics--never really understood this one. may be important the first month or two, but after awhile you'll get comfortable with the button/knob setup, regardless of where they are.
1. actual data relating to reliability
2. handling - steering feel and confidence when cornering
3. usefulness (hauling ability)
4. value
5. strong brakes
6. availability and quality of manual transmission
7. safety ratings
8. visibility from drivers seat
9. seat comfort
10. looks/ uniqueness w/ appeal
This goes to show what little people really know about the Fusion. The 3.0 Duratec does have VVT in the Fusion/Milan. This just once again shows my point about the bias against Ford products. :mad:
So I guess since McDonalds sells 1 million more burgers than Wendys.. McDonalds must have the best burger for the value? I bet not...
Get out on the net my friend. There are post in other forums with Camry V6 owners questioning their fuel mileage.. :surprise:
This is interesting. I wonder what the HP/torque loss or mileage loss is when regular is run in the Camry.. hmmm... I'm going to have to try to find the answer on this one. I wonder why the Toyota crowd never let this information be known? Premium runs at least .30 cents more a gallon.. quiet a big difference in fuel costs.. when comparing other sedands in this class.. :surprise:
1. Reputation for reliability
2. Comfort
3. Ergonomics/ease of operation
4. Passing/merging power
5. Handling
6. MPG
7. Smooth ride
8. Looks/style
9. Price
10. Brand name
I would put brand name up at 1 or 2 to begin with.. We are a society that thrives on brand names..
McDonalds sells more burgers because they are cheaper, and there is one on every corner. Camcords are not cheaper, and there are more Ford dealers than Honda/Toyota dealers in my area, so there must be another reason. Try again, Scape2.
Not much, I bet. The way the premium vs regular thing was explained to me was:
Only cars with higher compression ratios need premium. But, all cars engine's are computer controlled, and the sensors more or less know what type of fuel you're putting in. If the sensors in a high compression engine detect low octane fuel, the computer will just compensate for it by advancing the timing and tweaking a couple other things in the engine.
as it was explained to me.
None... the advertised power rating of 268 was with regular. Using 91 Octane yields 4 more HP.
Here is a link...Toyota GR Engine
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I'm sure there is a bias to ford products. Too many people have been burned by ford in the past. There is a reason their sales have declined as bad as they have.
Take me for instance. I KNOW the fusion is a good, well built car. Its probably the best car ford has made in awhile. But, I've owned fords in the past, and they were nothing but problems. Never major things (I wasn't constantly swapping engines) but it was just so many little things. Like being pecked to death by a thousand chicks. So, about 15 years ago I started buying asian cars. And they never gave me 1/10 the hassles of the fords I owned.
Is it fair to hold against ford problems I had with their products 15 years ago? Probably not. But as the song goes, once bitten twice shy.
Ok, so your list would have brand name at 1 or 2. Elroy placed it a 10. Where's the rest of your list?
Frankly, I'm not driving a $22,000 Honda badge. I'm driving the best $22,000 vehicle for my needs.
Because there are more aspects to a car than reliability. Last I checked, Ford Fusions and Honda Accords don't come with things like active-steering, active seat-bolsers, 14-way power seats, sport-handling packages, 18" wheels, Xenon headlights that swivel around turns, or 360 + horsepower engines, like the Mercedes' and BMWs of similar size. THAT'S part of the reason people strive for BMW and Merc. Is prestige part of the equation? Sure. But it isn't the end-all.
Performance, uniqueness of style... you know, some of the reasons you bought YOUR car are probably included in the reason people buy Mercedes'.
Reliability is always #1 to me. I don't need prestige if the car often fails this and that. To me, prestige will fade away if it does that.
Therefore, according to statistics, in the years that I could see, no European cars for me, only Japanese for now...
You just don't get it, do you? The Camry gets 268HP with regular - the Lexus gets 272HP with premium. Any better now?
And no one's complaining anything about a Fusion on the net?
Have you ever driven a BMW? Talk about handling, ride etc in your fusion, but if someone drives probably the best handling car on the planet you think he/she does it fot status? I drive a 330i sport pkg - just for the pure fun - no status for a 3er here in NJ - there's one everywhere
And no one's complaining anything about a Fusion on the net?
Of course not! :P KIDDING of course.
Both cars will have outliers in mileage, most are likely due to odd driving conditions (driving very short distances, or driving a lot of stop and go, or very high highway speeds, etc...).
People complaining of fuel economy (regardless of the car) have to be taken with a grain of salt, because one person's idea of a "normal" drive is likely different from yours or mine.
That being said, in identical, regimented, driving conditions, the Camry got higher numbers than the Fusion V6, Accord V6, Sonata V6, and most of the other competitors as well (if not all).
You took the words out of my mouth Elroy. I do have a few other examples that I could gove to Scape, but I guess it just doesn't matter to him. He feels the world is agianst Ford!!!!
So even with VVT the DT gets the least HP and worst MPG in its class? Must be a wonder of an engine. No wonder people are biased.