Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
I don't agree. Would you really have rather had a Chevy Vega than a Datsun 510? Or even a Toyota Corolla? Or do you want the Ford Pinto instead?
We got rid of the car because it bored us & replaced it with an Audi 5000. Now that was an automotive horror. I didn't buy another German car for 20 years.
Cars in general were a lot worse in those days. My friend bought a new 1974 Vega and it rusted through to holes in 2 years. This is in hot dry Southern California. IMHO that is much worse than needing frequent alignments. Then of course his engine corroded through at 55K miles. And let's not forget Pintos which killed their occupants when rear-ended.
I actually had a 1975 Pinto that I bought used with about 50k on it in 1978. It hit 150k miles and about the only thing needed during the time I owned it was a new clutch and that was probably my fault cause I drove the crap out of it. Never got rear ended so I'm still here even though I agree that the gas tank problem was a huge black eye for Ford.....similar to what Toyota is going through now. It was actually a great car from a driver's aspect and was a tough little bugger.
Vega is really not a good example of the average American made cars in those days but it is a good example of a bad American made car. There were plenty of cars that were just fine and I had a bunch of them. My favorite was a 1971 Pontiac LeMans with a 350 that was just the nicest driving/riding car you could want and very, very dependable. It's pretty common knowledge that the Japanese imports of that time frame were just not ready for prime time. I would seriously question stories of great Japanese imports during that time period.
I've pretty much owned Japanese manufacturers for the past 15 years as they really came into their own during the late eighties and early nineties and I decided to try them again and liked them. Now the pendulum is swinging somewhat toward the Koreans and Ford Motor. If the auto industry was stagnant and they didn't try to gain market share from each other there would be no improvement. So the fact that auto manufacturers change positions just goes to show that competition really does work.
It's easy to pot shot the past and pick out the Vegas and Pintos of the era and exclude the literally hundreds of well made Amercians cars during the time. While the newly minted Japanese imports were pretty well known to be crap across the board during that time. The Japanese made huge improvements and the Americans sat fat and happy and their product suffered. Hence, the rise of Toyota, Honda and Nissan and the demise of most of American Motors(Jeep remains), Plymouth, Olds, Pontiac, Saturn and Mercury. I probably missed some but you get the point.
But Coronas and Corollas aren't mid-sized sedans, are they...
The Corolla certainly isn't, but the Camry is, & the Corona was its immediate predecessor.
The Corona's last year was 1982 & the Camry's 1st year was 1983, so the Camry was clearly intended to replace the Corona.
I don't think that any of the Japanese cars available in the U.S. market during the middle & late 1970s would satisfy today's definition of a mid-sized sedan - not even the Mark II, which was the largest sedan that Toyota exported to the U.S. back then.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Not true. I bought a 12 pack of Corona in the store just the other day! :shades:
The reason I point out the Vega and Pinto is that those were the cars directly competing with the Corollas and 510s. The bigger US cars might have been good, but the Japanese vehicles didn't cover that size at that time. So you have to use Pinto/Vega to compare apples to apples. Perhaps the more correct way to say it is that the larger US cars were better, but the smaller cars Japanese vs. US were all crappy, and the US makes were major crap at that time as well.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Good one!
http://forums.speedarena.com/showthread.php?5001280-Edmunds-gets-a-2011-Kia-Opti- ma-and-Forte-4-door&dr_log=-1&linkout=http%3A//blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010- /08/2011-kia-optima-and-2011-kia-forte-5-door-drop-by-edmundscom.html
Highlights:
- Due by the end of this year
- Priced to come in under the Sonata
- UVO (Ford Sync like system) is due "later in the model year"
A very short youtube of it being driven on a highway, at least you get to see it in motion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrDw_XNrdBk
Hopefully this image isnt too large:
http://www.automobilemag.com/green/reviews/1008_2012_mazda_6_diesel_prototype/in- dex.html
I've been car shopping the last few weeks to replace my 2008 Honda Accord EX-L that's going to be coming off lease soon (I should mention that this is the third Honda in a row that I have leased). I went to my local Honda dealer this past weekend to take a look at the 2011 Accords. I managed to dodge the salespeople and stroll to the back of the lot where I found a few, including another EX-L (without navigation).
Looking at that car and the sticker, I notice the differences between this vehicle and mine are:
The grille and rear of the car were redesigned with an ugly stick.
Console buttons were shifted around a bit.
It now has bluetooth.
There's a power passenger seat.
For that, they want a little over $28,000 MSRP including destination. Good luck with that. For that MSRP and destination, I can get a Sonata Limited with a 6 speed transmission (as opposed to Honda's 5), better gas mileage, push button start, a nav system, backup camera, Homelink, turn signals on the mirrors, heated rear seats, rear vents, a bigger trunk, a better sound system, stock fog lights, a more generous warranty, and a car with (to me) superior styling. Plus the same bluetooth capabilities, leather, sunroof, heated front seats, and auto climate control as the Honda. The only thing the Honda gets me that's not in the Sonata is...a power passenger seat. Not that that's bad but, really, I'm willing to sacrifice to get everything else.
Even if you acknowledge that nobody pays MSRP for cars, any difference in bargaining is still not going to be enough to justify choosing the Honda over the Hyundai. Plus, for leasers, Hyundai has higher residuals than Honda right now.
I would not want to be a Honda salesman right now. If you'd asked me a few years ago if I'd ever consider a Hyundai or a Kia, I'd say probably not. Now those two are on my short list for my next car. The value is pretty incredible.
Autoweek article
"The 2011 model features dramatic new styling with a sweeping chrome arch, Kia's Tiger front grille design and a choice of four wheel sets, including two 18-inch options."
Hopefully the other option is the ones on this K5:
All the mags and sites say is "this fall" and "later this year". I think they are all just repeating each other and really have no better guess than we do on these forums.
I find that shocking. What are they?
I read that article yesterday. That is pretty impressive.
They also tested the new SKY-G 2.0L as well, but in Euro form. The US will get a 2.0L and 2.5L SKY-G and the 2.2L SKY-D.
The 2.0L SKY-G will debut in the 2012 Mazda3 (which I have already seen), and put down about 156hp and get 30mpg city / 39mpg hwy.
I'm guessing in 2012 / 2013 we will see the 2.2L SKY-D and 2.5L SKY-G for the Mazda6. I can't wait!
Question though, if you got what you owed on your loan, what do you mean that you were "under water on the loan". Usually, that means that you owe more than you recieve for it in trade or sale. Just curious.
On The Sonata, it leases for $199/ mo for 36 months with $2,399 due at signing and has a lower MSRP of $20,915. They do not disclose the buy out on their web site, but, it's obvious the residual is no where near 58%, more like 52% or 53%.
Judging by these lease offers, Honda has a better deal based strictly on numbers.
What trim of Veracruz was it?
2008's are advertised on AutoTrader in my area from $19,000 to $26,000 retail for AWD models. You are saying you got $26K for trade value?
Are you sure that's not the MPG for the SKY-D instead?
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2011-hyundai-sonata-tops-alg-residual-value-in- dex-16518.html
Maybe Honda is throwing in some money behind the curtains.
Yes, the SKY-G.
The 2.2L SKY-D will get 31-33 city / 43 highway (173hp / 310 tq) which will be in the Mazda6 and is headed to North America in 2012.
The Euro 2.0L SKY-G (163hp / 153 tq) engine has returned 31 city / 40 highway, but it has a higher compression ratio of 14:1 and required Premium fuel. The SKY-G 2.0L for North America has reduced compression of 13:1 and runs on Regular.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/01/report-prototype-mazda3-with-2-0l-sky-g-engin- e-gets-30-40-mpg/
The 2.2 D is supposed to get 43 mpg in the Mazda6. Mazda could have some real game changers here. VW has had a stranglehold on buyers that want diesel. Mazda reliability and diesel MPG could really put pressure on VW to get their act together as long as Mazda doesn't price the hell out them.
When my wholesale guides show me that a Sonata is worth more then an Accord, when comparably equipped, I will believe it.
But, either way, the Accord has a better lease on it right now because Honda is confident in the residual value. They have a reason to be confident, they have been holding their value for decades. Hyundai still has to prove it.
I'm worried about the price too...
There are a few other factors that set off an alarm in my head too. First, the ultra high compression in an aluminum block that had mass taken away for weight saving purposes. Second, these are entirely brand new engines. There is bound to be a few bugs, regardless of their history of building good cars.
As big of a Mazda fan as I am, I want to see the final numbers for economy and performance. Afterall, it is a Mazda and they better perform like one!!!
I know, that is why I mentioned I will have to wait and see what they are worth when a used value is generated for them.
My point about the leasing is that the Accord is a more expensive car and is leases for less. That means it has a better residual.
I would be a little leary as well of the new tech. Has Mazda used the same tech for awhile overseas and are these just new derivatives or is this pretty much new tech, new engines?
From what I have read, they are completely new designs, developed 100% by Mazda.
Isn't the residual (58%) you mention just a result of what Honda is asking you to pay and really has nothing to do with actual third party estimates as to residual value. Couldn't Honda be setting the residual on their lease artificially high to get the monthly payments and down payment down? I'm not that familiar with leasing but get the general idea I think.
It is the better deal though as you say.
ALG is has been around for a long time so I think they know something about forecasting future values. But I'm sure if one digs you could find some mistakes due to events nobody could foresee.
They have been building diesel's for years
What I do not understand is how the Sonata is all of a sudden predicted to be worth more then the Accord just because of a flashy design, featured content and improved FE and power. I believe Hyundai has to prove this car is really that good before anyone jumps to conclusions about resale.
I have been impressed with Hyundai lately, but, again, let's see how their new tech holds up over time. It's only fair.
Basing anything on percent of MSRP may not tell you much anyway. If one car is normally discounted and rebated more than the other, then any comparison of the percent residual based on MSRP would be distorted by this.