Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I quite agree with you!

    The only point I was attempting to make was that is doesn't pay to underestimate what folks will do nowadays. And, don't underestimate folks intelligence...the under 18 crowd knows how they will be treated by the courts if apprehended (no jail time in most cases unless multiple court appearances/charges), so in a sense, our legal system actually encourages some of this behavior.

    Whether accomplished and selective thieves or simple opportunists, the result is still the same. Stolen items and property damage that must be dealt with by the car owner...

    Just another example of the sad state of affairs we have to deal with these days....

    Personally, I liked the security system of the "6000SUX" car in the movie "Robocop"...20,000 volts !!!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I tried both AT&T and Sprint's nav and they used data plan bandwidth. I happened to have unlimited data already, so it only cost me an extra $9.99 unlimited at the time. Sprint's service was worse than AT&T's because it handled routing when the phone is in use in an extremely poor way.
    Both were more hassle that using my Garmin and putting it away when not needed, so I canceled both. I managed to live with AT&T's Telenav for a few months and canceled Sprint Navigation after 2 days.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Can you supply any info that contradicts this information? I would like to know, as my daughters may need to use this some day...

    Depending on your exact plan, some airtime/data charges may apply. The only way to know for sure is to call verizon wireless and ask them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm trying to be objective towards the Malibu,

    I was trying to be objective but I didn't like the base Malibu. The base Camry and Accord seems to be a better package overall.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    In my area, they are breaking out windows of cars that have the telltale suction cup marks...

    I guess I must spend all my time in low crime areas, because I sure don't give much thought to the possibility of someone smashing windows to steal whatever is in my car. Of course, my MODT navigation system is not of much value, most components of it were free.

    MODT = maps on dead tree :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Know what you mean. Now if we can just get gravel trucks to cover their loads. I am having the glass company coming Thursday morning to replace my windshield on my Tundra due to a very large stone flying out of a bouncing gravel truck. I would have gotten a plate number but I was too busy trying to dodge other stones it was throwing off.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I guess VW is calling their new sedan the "quad-coupe" over here, rather then the Passat CC. I really do not understand this car. Is is supposed to be positioned to compete with the Maxima / Avalon crowd? With it offering VW's 2.0 Turbo with 200hp, it seems to be very under powered. I see it is rumored to also get the V6, which would make it a better competitor, however, I can see the price going well over $30K.

    This just seems like a car that could steal sales away from their slow selling Passat. Can we say VW has an identity crisis? :confuse:
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,768
    Hope you can come out tonight to meet and greet some of your fellow CarSpace members!

    The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

    Edmunds Moderator

    Need some roadside assistance? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

    PF_Flyer's 2014 Versa Note Long Term Blog
    How To Start Your Own Long Term Blog

  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    I'm sure that this questions has come up before but I'm going to ask it anyway.I have a couple of questions about resales values.

    1. how are resale values calculated ?
    2 How is it that the Fusion/Milan are better built than the Camry. But, the Camry still has a better resale value ?

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    2 How is it that the Fusion/Milan are better built than the Camry. But, the Camry still has a better resale value ?

    I can answer this one. The Camry has a higher resale value because more people want one, and are simply willing to pay more for them.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Last time I checked the Fusion residuals were better than the Camry but not as good as the Accord. Do you have more recent data that shows otherwise?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Resale values are always a bone on contention.

    1) Does resale mean "trade-in" to a dealer or a private party sale?

    2) Is resale value compared in the actual $ of the used car sale?

    3) Is comparative resale based upon MSRP or the price actually paid to purchase the car new.

    IMO, it crazy to say that a three year old car of brand X has better resale than brand Y, unless the purchase price new is more than the difference in value when sold three years later. Yet, a lot of people think that way.
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    Sorry my computer froze up on me. I Have here 2 of the closes and most common models within the same price point. The 2008 Ford Fusion SE I-4 and the 2008 Camry LE I-4 Both with 5 speed automatics. Here are the links straight from Kelly Blue Book.

    2008 Ford Fusion
    MSRP Ford Fusion $19,660.00
    2008 Ford Fusion Resale value

    2008 Toyota Camry
    MSRP Toyota Camry $21,735.00
    2008 Toyota Camry resale value

    Now the graph for the Toyota Camry is clearly higher than the Fusion. Help me understand this :confuse:
  • karsickkarsick Posts: 312
    The question about residuals based on MSRP prompted Toyota (IIRC) to make Scion a "one-price / no-haggle" brand. Or, it was at least one factor in the decision.

    The fact that everyone pays MSRP would give Scions a perceived high residual, and (as you already know) is one reason why most domestics have such lousy residuals ($6000 Lincoln Town Car rebate, anyone??? :P )

    Like you, I wish it were possible to track the actual purchase price of each car vs the resale price years later in order to get a clearer picture.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Those graphs are based on percentage of MSRP, what I think those who trade should be interested in is the actual depreciation in dollars.

    Edmunds "true cost to own" provides an estimate of this and is based on their TMV as the starting point, rather than MSRP. Edmunds TCO also provides estimated reasale value so you can estimate your own personal depreciation based on the price you actually pay.

    For the Fusion SE total estimated depreciation, based on $15,000 miles per year, is:

    $4700 after 1 year
    $6670 after 2
    $8403 after 3
    $9939 after 4
    $11,318 after 5

    For the Camry

    $3939 after 1 year
    $6242 after 2
    $8268 after 3
    $10,063 after 4
    $11,675 after 5

    So at 4 years or more the Ford has lower depreciation. But at any time, I think your personal depreciation is going to depend as much on how good a deal you get as it is on the resale value. The actual price paid can certainly vary by a few hundred to maybe as much as a couple thousand dollars at the time of purchase.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The accuracy depends on which source you want to use and what you want to believe. KBB has been doing this the longest and although their methodology is different than edmunds, if I want to guess at a future private party or dealer trade in,, KBB is what *I* would use and it is considered the standard.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    if I want to guess at a future private party or dealer trade in,, KBB is what *I* would use

    Where does KBB give this information? The links given, in the post that I was responding to, showed some vague graphs based on MSRP.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    My own experience, take it for what you will, is that Edmunds' TMV used car prices are a little closer to reality than are KBB's figures (as found on But both are just estimates, and YMMV, especially I've found for cars that are exceptionally well cared for--which mine are of course. :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    As long as you don't leave a laptop or something valuable in plain view.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Can anyone shed light on the reason that a Camry, that weighs about 350 more lbs. than a Corolla XRS and appears to use the same engine/trannny(5 spd auto) combo, gets a better hwy mpg rating from the EPA?
    I assume wind resistance may be a very small player but is the gearing possibly that much different? I would think that a Corolla with the same drivetrain combo would have earned a better rating, not worse.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,679
    Manual or Automatic? The Camry Manual I THINK uses an E251 transmission. Don't know about the Corolla.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Sorry, I was referring to the 5 spd auto. I changed my post to reflect the auto. Tks.
  • That's a good question! I can't seem to figure it out either. First, I assumed that the Corolla XRS must have a considerably shorter final drive ratio, but then I looked at C&D's track times for both cars:

    '08 Camry LE
    2.4L / 5-speed Automatic
    curb weight: 3,343 lbs
    ...............................1/4 mile time: 17.0 at 83 MPH

    '09 Corolla XRS
    2.4L / 5-speed Manual
    curb weight: 2,930 lbs
    ..............................1/4 mile time: 15.9 at 88 MPH


    1) The Corolla XRS (with manual) weighs 413 lbs less than the Camry LE (with automatic)

    2) The Corolla's manual transmission sends more power to the drive wheel, compared to the Camry's automatic (torque converter power loss)


    The Corolla, being significantly lighter, and having more power at the drive wheel, should not require shorter gearing to reach the 1/4 mile 1.1 second faster than the Camry. Could it be the cheesy tacked-on ground effects on the XRS causing more drag at highway speeds? I assumed that as well, but the Camry SE has the same cheesy tacked on ground effects kit as the XRS, and the Camry SE gets EPA ratings identical to the Camry LE. So that rules out the drag theory. So.....either the XRS is running considerably higher RPM than the Camry at highway speeds (which would require the XRS the have shorter gearing, which is unlikely given the facts above), or somethin' aint right with the EPA's calculation formula. Or you can use your imagination and speculate as people love to do.
  • Still, an XRS with a 5-speed manual should get better Highway mileage than a Camry with the same engine and a 5-speed automatic. The weight difference of 413 pounds is significant, and if you consider the facts/data from my post above, the gearing should be very similar between both cars, if not identical.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Maybe it boils down to which bolt-on ground effects pkg is cheesier than the other. ;)
    However, all joking aside, the EPA numbers are supposed to be accurate(comparatively) so I really wonder what gives.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    According to the 2009 order guide the Fusion will offer ESC (finally). This was a surprise since the 09 model debuts in June and will only exist for 6 months when the mid cycle refresh appears in December (on sale in January).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Offer, or standard?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Considering the larger, more expensive Taurus has it optional only (TRAC is standard), I'm guessing this will be an option for the Fusion as well.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    So, Elroy, did you get your windshield wiper motor fixed yet?
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    So, Elroy, did you get your windshield wiper motor fixed yet?

    My wiper motor works just fine. I'll see about it whenever I get a notice from Honda. I've been wanting to go by the dealership though, to check out the new models. Unfortunately, the wife will probably be the one to take it in. Oh well, I'll stop by one day.
Sign In or Register to comment.