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They say competition improves the breed....I'm all for it!!
It appears that the Honda Accord Coupe was the inspiration for the front end of the Optima. Nothing refreshing there, IMO
However, optioned out the way I wanted, IMO, the Fusion did not provide the interior presentation level that I would expect for paying that kind of money.
What a great time for car buyers.
That was a pretty fair account generally. But my very first thought when I think of buying a new or even up to 4 year old car, is that while the new choices offer much technological wizardry, many do not have that tech perfected. They use those features and tout them as clever 'pick me' marketing tactics, with the mindset of dealing (or not:() with operating glitches after the successful enticement of the sale.
But then, 20 years ago, people weren't chatting on Internet forums chock-full of images, videos, and other information on cars.
Times change, cars change. At least the cars don't drive themselves... yet.
- Actually, the inspiration for the Optima's headlights was Kia's very own Kue concept which dates back to 2007.
One could argue that both the Accord coupe and Lexus RX got the inspiration for the down-ward angled, rectangular headlights from Kia.
One could also argue that the front of the Accord sedan has a resemblance to the previous generation Sonata (before the refresh).
The Mazda6 edges out the Optima SX in handling, but the Optima SX has better styling and fuel economy (the Kizashi may very well be the best of the lot, but a big part has to do w/ the Kizashi being considerably smaller than the rest of the segment).
As for the Legacy, Fusion and Sonata - they all have their strength and weaknesses and any one of them could finish 3rd.
What I don't like about the 3:
1. Legacy - could use more power and fuel economy is a bit lagging.
2. Fusion - isn't as capable a handler as the Mazda6 and has one of Ford's weaker dash/center stack designs.
3. Sonata - overboosted steering cuts down on what could have been a more fun car to drive.
Doesn't the Legacy get over 30 mpg hwy with the CVT? Seems pretty good for an AWD car.
I guess it depends how you define top 5. Are they the top 5 by sales volume, because that is pretty easy, or is it top 5 by personal preference? I don't know if my personal preference goes 5 deep. Here it goes...
1. Subaru Legacy GT manual - the 2.5 liter turbo offsets any "lack of power" in the base model, responsive handling and ride, feels a little too big. Less homely looking than other Subarus. Heated leather seats, sunroof, and manual transmission ftw. I personally like AWD handling in snow, wet or dry conditions.
2. Ford Fusion SE manual w/appearance pkg & moon/toons - its as loaded a manual transmission Fusion as you can get, at least you get SYNC and a sunroof, descent wheels and tires, no leather, no heated seats, no AWD and no engine upgrade (same as Mazda3 engine - smaller lighter car). Also feels a little big to me.
3. VW CC 2.0t FSI manual - Actually looks like someone tried to style it a bit. Very comfortable, definitely on the cushy side of sporty. Not a strong emotional attachment one way or the other, but car meets criteria. Feels German in its execution.
4. Honda Accord EX manual - kind of big and bland, but is comfortable enough, back seat is good with child restraints, no leather or heated seats with manual. Previous driving experience returned good fuel economy. Can support multiple kids without needing minivan. No emotional attachment what so ever.
Okay I got 4. I think I am realizing that part of my issue is that I am up a size-class too high. I don't want a midsized car, they seem to remind me of 80s Oldsmobiles, Malibus and LTDs; I think I have a lot more interest in the compact segment at this point. The Impreza (WRX), (new) Focus and Mazda3 are all more appealing to me than anything I can think of in this segment.
Today, the only reason to even have a manual is if you want more precise control over shifts, more for sport than anything else, considering there is no longer a difference between auto vs manual in the economy segment. They both get the same MPG, or within 1 MPG. Some autos actually get better FE than manuals now. Personally I will take an auto over a manual any day, I have had my fill of shifting and clutching to last a lifetime, I used to drive an 18, and believe me when I say this, after so many years of clutching and shifting in traffic, I'm done, gimme an auto any day! LOL :shades:
I think I would have a hard time today as I like the near compact size of my prior generation Mazda6, but I also would still want to have a car that can squeeze 3 in the back seat. My car does just accommodate that for me, but I could not really go any narrower on rear hip room. Mine is listed at 54.1 inches, which is 18 inches per butt.
The Kizashi which is a smaller midsize is at 52.1 so not enough.
The Verano is very appealing to us but the dealer is not close at all while the Hyundai store is within 4 miles which is a huge selling point. I anticipate that we'll purchase sometime in latter 2012 if the Mazda behaves itself. So a 2013 model will be doable. Can't wait !!!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I used to drive 18 also and have done a pile of clutching during the last few million miles. But grass isn't always greener over thar on the auto turf..
Take for example the problem this poster is having in the link below. But you can take your pick...there are similar issues with autos no matter what forum thread you choose. As the quest for better fuel economy and their never ending attempt to 'manualize' them, they rely on more and more technology. And it is the complex electronic tech, be it a controlled switch or solenoid, or operation software etc that cause the majority of the problems. And when these fail, they not only leave u stranded, usually they affect longevity too..and that's even if you have more money than Trump.
Manuals do require a more aggressive driver involvement, but at least they do not leave you stranded, AND with your gear/stuff inaccessible in the back that you want to retrieve before it gets towed away....altho to be fair that one is stretching it to blame the entire auto glitch. More like a GM thing that has way too much dependence on each other of the vast number of components all interacting together. (or in this case, not interacting) lol
jrcket, "2010 Chevy Equinox Problems" #779, 25 Jan 2011 10:04 pm
Saying you want a manual because automatics break down more is a completely ridiculous reason that bears no semblance to reality.
The only reason to get a manual anymore as someone else stated is to get a sportier driving experience, and even that rationale is questionable in some models.
If u don't like my username just say so and please don't beat around the bush about it.
I dare not comment further as we are
milesworlds apart on this.It's done. It's over. MOVE ON!
On topic: Kia is apparently offering the chance to win one of five new Optimas as part of their Super Bowl campaign. Apparently, if you answer four questions that Kia will post online, and the fifth during the SB, you could win.
It's done. It's over. MOVE ON! "
Well that is pretty rude.
Someone was talking about that topic so I commented a very valid point on it and it was on topic. Who are you to tell me to not post on topic?
'Pends on what vehicle you're looking at.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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What I looked at:
- VW CC: best looking car of the bunch, but it's a VW (after years of owning a 95 Golf that required 1000s of $ in repairs, I'm biased...) and it's only a 4 seater. I need the option to carry 5 passengers in a pinch (not long distance)
- test drove an Hybrid Altima. I was not enthused. I found the driving dynamics a bit lacking and it just did not do it for me overall.
- test drove the Fusion (Hybrid as well). Center console looks like it would require some studying, but overall it was nice. Hybrid remains too expensive, but car is nice overall (nice leather, soft plastics, etc.). The hands free stuff is really cool. Just a tad small.
- test drove the Kia Optima EX. Definitely the best of the bunch, but the front seats were just way too hard to my liking. It's really too bad, as the car is damn near perfect otherwise, and clearly has a great engine.
The car will replace a 2004 Mazda6 hatchback. I really enjoyed the Mazda handling overall, and it's been pretty reliable for 85k miles. Should I look at the new 6? Am I missing anything else?
if you don't mind AWD, check out a Subaru legacy.
and look at the hyundai sonata. Same platform and drivetrain as the kia, but I believe softer seats.
you seem to have slightly off beat tastes, so is that why no mention of the camry (snoozer) or Accord (too darned big now)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Accord: I read that it's too noisy, and I like to be able to make phone calls when I drive.
Legacy: not too sure about the reliability of the 2.5 boxer engine (could be wrong though). I'm also afraid that the car would be harder to resell.
My offbeat tastes might be due to the fact that I'm also getting rid of a Mini Cooper, which has been my commuter car for the last 18 months.
I'll have to check out the 6. Too bad the engine is not the most economical. I wished they put a 6 speed automatic transmission in there.
That's 19/31 with the new EPA MPG tests.
Cars Direct Price: Net Cost: $26,881 (including delivery)... and that's the base model convertible with the spoiler and automatic added.(!) 5K less for the coupe (Truecar BEST LOCAL PRICE: $20,253) , but the convertible is SO much nicer.
Yeah, you can keep your Accord or Camry.
EDIT:
Mazda 6 4 cylinder - 21/30 (24) 160HP 0-60: 8.1 seconds.
Accord 4 Cylinder - 21/31 (25) 190HP 0-60: 9.2 seconds
Camry 4 Cylinder - 21/31 (25) 169HP 0-60: 8.4 seconds
Mustang V6 - 19/31 (23) 305HP 0-60: 5.1 seconds
Just get the Mustang. If you absolutely need to fit people in back on a regular basis, get the convertible as getting in and out is a snap when the roof is down. And it looks awesome.
I previously owned a '04 Mazda6 Sedan, and I upgraded to a '10 Mazda6 after checking out just about everything else in this class. In terms of driving dynamics, there simply isn't an equal. It still handles like it's on rails, the MUCH shorter turning radius is a welcome change, and the braking is still very good. Ride has smoothed out a little bit, but clipping apexes is still a joy.
I bought the S GT (with V6), so I can't help you on the fuel economy, but I've heard from other 4-cylinder owners that exceed 30 MPG on the highway on a regular basis. Plus, for '11, Mazda retuned the 4-cylinder to now get 22/31 MPG with the 5-speed automatic, without losing an ounce of hp or torque.
Unfortunately, the Optima wasn't out when I bought the 6, and I haven't tried one out for myself yet, but to me, the closest thing to the 6 was the Fusion Sport. Handling was very good, and the V6 power was nice, but the 6 had the edge in interior fit-and-finish and materials, and that's what sold me as well. I also tried out the CC (nice looker, but overpriced, and I've been scared by VW's (lack of) reliability as well).
Keep the 6 on your list.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Accord is not too loud in my opinion. Depends on the person i guess. I also had no problem with the Optima's seats, that's the car I'm most likely getting.
I'd say try the Sonata and the Buick Regal. BTW what is your price range? Since you mentioned the CC you might also look at the Infiniti G25 or Acura TSX.
It really does get a reliable 25mpg combined in real-world conditions. They recently did a test around a track and it got over 45mpg with someone hypermilling it. Note that it is a stock engine/transmission in the test car.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/24/2011-ford-mustang-v6-runs-776-5-miles-on-on- e-tank-48-5-mpg-w-v/
It's an entirely new engine and transmission and is the best thing Ford has in any of its cars to date. That it is within 1-2mpg of the other 4 cylinder cars is great. That it has the ability to drive crazy fast when you absolutely have to(or want a bit of sport in your day) is amazing. The convertible is just simply a blast and is easier to get in and out of, more fun by far, and is still within the OP's budget.
I have been very happy with my EX -- it's definitely better than most of the cars I've owned, and perhaps the best looking one.
****
A team of Ford engineers prepared for the challenge by implementing fuel efficient driving tips like minimizing the use of air conditioning, steady and consistent driving, avoiding sudden stops/starts and by keeping the RPMs low. The engine in the Mustang is powered by a lightweight, all-aluminum 3.7-liter dual-overhead-cam (DOHC) V-6 engine that uses advanced engineering to deliver its combination of power and economy. Twin independent variable camshaft timing (Ti-VCT) adjusts the valve train in microseconds depending on driver inputs, further contributing to the engine's overall efficiency. The Mustang used in the challenge is a stock production vehicle that can be purchased through a Ford dealer.
"This is beyond our wildest dreams," said Tom Barnes, the lead engineer for the Ford Mustang 1,000 Lap Challenge. "There have been a lot of people who have done a lot of things in preparing this 2011 Mustang V-6 to run the Mustang 1,000 Lap Challenge and have the success we have had today. It was great when we went past the 1,000 lap mark with David, but nobody could ever imagine that we still had five hours ahead of us.
****
This combo is basically like the GM 3.8 W body cars were in that it will get consistently higher than advertised mpg figures if you baby it on the highway. Driving like your grandmother it will still get you 0-60 times in the 12-13 second range, which is where realistic 0-60 times are for the 4 cylinder cars under 2/3-3/4 throttle.(no way they'll get mpg figures that are attractive being driven this hard, either)
Driven conservatively, owners are reporting about 23 city and 33 highway, which is what you'd expect, since the new EPA ratings can usually be beaten by normal drivers being a bit prudent.(they don't test EPA with cruise control on)
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-v6-mustang-tech/241375-real-world-mil- - eage-v6-manual-11.html
Out of about 7500 miles, I average overall about 26.92MPG. My average with 87 octane is 25.97 MPG, with my overall range being 23.3-30.6 MPG. On 93 octane my average has been 27.51 MPG with the overall range being 25.1-32.4 MPG.
Now if Ford would make a 4 door Mustang...
Yes, I know it's not a "Sedan" - but that appears to be a decision by Ford to not put extra doors on it more than anything else. Otherwise, it's a normal sedan in every other way. Since 90% of the time people don't even use the back seat, especially as a commuting vehicle, AND the original poster seemed to be more focused upon size(ie - doesn't like tiny cars) and mpg rather than actually mentioning that he needed to fit 5 people in it every day, I thought that adding it as a possible solution wasn't out of place.
I REALLY wish Ford would make a 4 door version of it and stop messing around.
Note: This post edited per host's comments.
However, the Mustang isn't a midsize sedan and does not meet any of the criteria specified by the person asking the question. Conversation about that vehicle doesn't belong here.
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Review your vehicle
I thought the seats were too hard in the Mazda6 when I had a (I think) 2005 for a loaner car many years ago. Since I liked many other things about the car, that was one thing I was glad to find that they changed in the 2006-2008 version, the seats were softened up a bit in those. If the seats are even harder than in a 2004 Mazda6 that would be a concern to me.
If possible, I'd check to see how 3 people of the size you are contemplating putting in the back seat will fit. I have a 2007 Mazda6 and that gives me just enough hip room for 3. I've noticed, according to the hip room specs listed here on edmunds, that some midsize cars, that are large than mine, actually have less hip room (eg. Fusion, Altima).
I'm trying to keep it below $30k before tax. I am also looking at the TSX wagon, but I haven't test driven it yet. Based on the numbers I read, I'm afraid it'll be on the small side, especially in a few years as my kids get older.
Optima: car is dang near perfect in every way, but the front seat did not feel that great. I would have to drive it again to double check, but the first impression was not good.
The Mazda6 looks appealling, but it seems that the 2012 model might get the much upgraded transmission. It'd be too bad to get a new car now to see the car revamped in 8 months. I might be hanging to our Mazda6 for a while to see what else is coming.
Hyundai has nice cars, the Sonata sounds like its a winner, and with their turbo 4, should be a good runner.
I just stumbled across this set of reviews:
http://motormouths.com/car/mazda/6
Every single article on the first page raves about the 6, which matches exactly my feelings of owning. I've had mine for 6 months now, and still get a thrill with the way it handles. Maybe the acceleration isn't class-leading, but it integrates perfectly with the handling, and the shifts are so silky smooth...it is the best dang 4-cyl I've ever driven. Period.
And check out the cars average of all scores:
http://motormouths.com/scores/6-80-to-89
The Mazda6 beats the Civic, the Acura RL, the Acura TL, the Malibu, the Fusion, the Accord, the Lancer, the Altima, the Impreza, the Camry, the Jetta, and the Audi A4.
The average score is bested by the Kia Optima and the Hyundai Sonata, so you should check them, as well.
It also ties the Lexus IS and ES and the Mercedes C class, which is good company; and the Legacy and the Passat, which is not bad company.
Disclaimer: these are cars across different price and luxury points, and some different performance and size targets. And even for cars attempting to hit the exact same market segment, I doubt you can compare the composite number and say, "Oh, the 6 is 3 better than the Camry, so I'll like it 30% more."
All I'm saying is that if average out all the reviewers that like certain cars, hate certain cars, and are neutral on others, and if you average out all the skilled reviewers from those that stink, across all brands/lines, the Mazda6 is among the best. You have to go up $10k to get a clearly better car. That aspect is shared with the Sonata and Optima, so keep them on your list, too.
Mini-Vader
Porsche and Audi were the highest rated brands followed by BMW and Mercedes. some puzzling high scores were the the discontinued Pontiac G8 with 87 and the impractical Lotus Evora with 89. on the low end you had the Ford Fusion with 80. the Audi A4 got 82 while the S4 got 88. long in the tooth and very slow selling Hyundai Veracruz got 85 (highest Hyundai besides Genesis Sedan with 86).
i guess extreme performance (mixed with a bit of luxury) was the overwhelming metric for high scores :confuse: . fuel economy and price were not important as almost all diesels and hybrids (except VW GTI, Mercedes GL Blutec and S hybrid, and Porsche Cayenne hybrid) and compacts and family cars scored low to average. Honda Fit was the only high scoring subcompact with 88. although to be fair ALL pickups, most vans, SUVs and CUVs scored low or mediocre except the Porsche Cayenne (similar Touareg got 80), Audi Q7, Land Rover Range Rover, and Honda Odyssey with an above average 86. Cayenne Turbo (they sure love the Cayenne) scored 87, fuel economy and price be damned. i'm guessing reliability and quality weren't highly weighted either. very different scores than Consumer Reports.
however, i will say that site is by far the best compilation of reviews (thousands of professional reviews) for just about every car out there if you do want to read any available reviews of a car. i just don't get the interpretation and evaluation of those reviews.
Still, the point remains: people need to make sure they test drive a Mazda6, Hyundai Sonata, and Kia Optima before they make a decision to purchase.
Such is the case with super bowl commercials - people remember the commercial but not the product. That's expensive PR.