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Just bragging about my new Sport 6MT sedan. Bought it this weekend, and it's my first Honda. So far, LOVE it.
The other top contender was the new Mazda6. Mazda offers a manual in touring trim with some nice options. It's dead sexy. But it doesn't offer quite the same amount of right knee space (I'm 6'3" and sick of leaning my right knee against the center console all the time). My prior car, a 2008 Mazda3, has been pretty reliable (but for the weaksauce AC), and many reviews online placed the Mz6 ahead of the Accord in comparison tests. It also has better fuel economy by a few mpg highway. But the Accord accelerates quicker and sounds better doing it. And the Accord just feels a little better put together and of richer materials inside, if less exciting to look at. The sport's cloth seems very durable, while the Mazda's faux leather was a bit questionable. The texture of the metal and rubber on the stereo knobs and AC vents feels so premium, and the panel gaps are very tight. Little things that add up to a quality feeling, which I have been ignoring for the last six years in my Mazda3 (which I did compare to a Civic at the time). And again, Honda resale value and reliability vs Mazda who despite making some fun cars is struggling financially and sells in much lower numbers. So, I'm a Honda guy at last.
I was pleased to get a very good deal near invoice pricing, despite the relative rarity of the manual transmission models. Went with new because of cheap financing and frankly the used Accords with under 40K miles on them were dang near as expensive as new ones... Also, impressed with all the content for only a little more money than a base LX. The 18"s and little spoiler (which you cannot see in your own rearview mirror) really dress it up, and the leather wheel and shift knob feel great. They say the sport has a firmer suspension than other trims. I didn't drive any others, but this feels just right for a daily commute. Planted but not harsh in the least. Quiet, which surprised me because I always heard that Hondas had a lot of wind and road noise. The phone integration and customizable features are very slick, and I love the rearview camera as this is a much bigger car than I'm used to parking. Back seat is cavernous, my three kids fit just fine (now that we've grown out of those enormous booster seats), so we can take the car on some longer trips instead of taking the Suburban all the time. As long as we don't need a lot of luggage, we'll save a lot of gas, and keep some miles off the old truck.
It had to be a manual, but I decided to give Kia Optima a fair shake based on the value play. Could have had a loaded EX for about the same money. But decided the Accord's sweet engine and gearbox, ride/handling, build quality, and future resale value was worth trading for leather and sunroof. (Who wants to be driving a used Kia in 8 years?) Also test drove the Altima (CVT only, but surprisingly responsive), and it was very comfortable, but looks a little awkward to me. Didn't bother driving the Fusion or Camry because I sat in everything at the auto show and there were only four with acceptable leg room. The Accord is by far the most refined car I've ever owned, and I simply cannot see the need for a "luxury" brand car these days given how nice and fully-featured this thing is.
So, while I enjoyed the Mazda culture and was looking forward to having a new 6 and being different and better looking than everyone else, Honda really impressed me. The more time I spend staring at it, the more I appreciate the design.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Compared to the Fusion, although I know the bones have been around for a few years, everything else seems like it is 10 years old.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
a twin
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I especially like the Accord Sport in blue w/ the 18' alloys. I think if Honda offered it with a 6 speed auto and navigation it would be the best selling Accord ever. Then again, by adding an automatic it wouldn't really be a Sport!
That brings me to the subject of the total abuse and absurd usage of the "sport" and "GT" moniker in the industry. Far too many manufacturers have glued them on the back of decidedly non-sporty cars. Also, don't even get me started on the "S" badge! Everything is an "S". The base model VW Jetta's all have them for example...and VW is the last manufacturer that I thought would use this tactic.
The Accord and the Mazda 6 deserve their sport badges. I hope a lot more cars will also actually be sporty in the future!
I have the metallic red (Spicy Red) one. Sometimes it looks more cherry red, and others it looks more like blood red, which is what I prefer. I have done a few things to it, but not much. 35% tinted windows, mud guards, an Infinity basslink powered sub, OEM rear spoiler, and a K&N filtercharger.
Here are some pics: http://cski12894.imgur.com/all/
Camry 35,870
Accord 31,677
Altima 26,904
Fusion 24,313
Malibu 21,288
Sonata 19,454
Optima 14,599
200 12,360
Passat 10,874
Avenger 7,582
Legacy 4,363
Mazda6 3,840
The mystery is why Mazda can only sell 3800 Mazda6's, given all the critical acclaim the car has received, also quite a bit of advertising. Maybe they'll need to offer more of a discount. Locally I see the cars advertised for near list price. Hard to compete with the other guys who are offering huge discounts and great leases.
As one who gave a serious look at the Mazda6 I found two issues: 1) the passenger seat was too low and could not be elevated and 2) regardless of what the "professionals" say, I think the interior is rental car worthy - i.e. cheap, hard plastics.
As far as the passenger seat, I haven't seen or heard anybody in print or in forums mention it before but I didn't sit in it so I really can't comment on it. It wouldn't shock me though as that is a fairly common complaint on a lot of cars and suvs nowadays. I recently bought a new Acura RDX and that is also a complaint by many in that regard. My wife has gotten used to it and it isn't a problem for us. I don't think that is a major factor in why it hasn't been selling either.
Why isn't it selling that well? I have no real idea except that Mazda has so fewer dealerships and less advertising money to play with that it will never be a major player. The Legend is another small player and will probably not ever sell in big numbers either. It would be interesting to see the comparison numbers to last year as that would be more telling. The new 6 just came out a couple of months ago and they really only started hitting the ads heavy about a month ago. So I think it may be premature to form any kind of real opinion about how it's going to do.
FLEET SALES AS PCT. OF TOTAL FLEET SALES AS PCT. OF TOTAL
Chrysler 200 52% Toyota Camry 20%
Chevrolet Malibu39% Hyundai Sonata 17%
Ford Fusion 34% Honda Accord 1%
Nissan Altima 33%
Source: R.L. Polk & Co. data analyzed by Edmunds.com
I saw Altima, Camry and Fusion hybrid models being used a police cars.
Those are fleet sales.
Rental companies must do some cost/benefit analysis so they can maximize their profits, so the numbers you posted kind of reflect that.
It is interesting, however, that Toyota sells almost as many Camrys in month as Mazda sells of the 6 in a whole year.
That's esp. strange since Camry is one of the weakest midsize cars in terms of almost everything, while the Mazda6 is at the top at almost everything except sales.
For the calendar year, I think the Mazda6 will keep building momentum and may sell c. 50,000.
I agree that the Camry is about the weakest overall but I don't think it's that strange that they sell like crazy. I believe most average car buyers(probably not us that post in car forums) buy transportation only. Toyota(and Honda among some others) has a solid reputation as dependable, trouble free and inexpensive to fix coupled with very good resale value. There are many more people that buy cars for that reason then there are that dissect autos the way we do and read every review and test drive a dozen cars before making our decision largely based on "how they drive and handle". They are just buying dependable, fairly inexpensive transportation. Hence the huge numbers.
Have they had some big recalls? Sure, but they all have. People buying the Fusion today don't think about the exploding Pintos or the Explorers that were rolling over with occupants flying. Things get fixed and people get over it.
No, the problem with the Mazda6 sales is not the passenger seat. Nor the interior materials. IMO the Mazda6 has one of the best interiors of today's mid-sized cars. It's not flashy, but beautiful in it's simplicity. It's also clear where the design inspiration came from. (Hint: look at the dashes of the latest high-end BMWs.)
What old hearsay are you talking about? They are still known for very good dependability, reasonable repair/maint costs and good resale value. In fact they still are right there with Honda Accord in resale value even after all the recalls. If you will notice, Honda has had a lot of recalls in the past year as well. Just not as exciting
As for 198 or 274 hp being "underpowered"... okee doke. :surprise:
The passenger seat in my Optima is too low as well. I do still love the electric blue SX with the pizza-slice rims and the Napa leather seats instead of my barely leather seats, but hey, the EX is a lot of car for $24k. I think the Mazda offers similar value, along with the other players in the mid size field.
Remember, the Galant was unable to re-establish a foothold in the fiercely competitive midsize field, and it went away. Mazda6 is holding its own considering the huge recognition factor that each of Camry and Accord and Fusion and Altima and the rest have established.
Passat is the other one that has been able to pull off a huge turnaround in the face of all the odds in this field. 10,000+ sales per month is huge, compared to the almost non-existent numbers of the previous generation. It wasn't that many years ago that Sonata and Optima were also selling in much smaller numbers.
Today, the whole field is composed of good cars. There's not a bad apple in the bunch. Why should large numbers of non-enthusiasts suddenly start buying Mazda6s when well-established, well-recognized cars like Accord and Camry (even if Camry is "average") are as good as they are?
The next name to die will probably be the Avenger. The Legacy is starting to look dowdy and badly needs a total update. However, with the Outback and Forester selling faster than they can make them, Subaru is not lacking for sales.
There are lots of factors to consider. But bottom line, I think the Mazda6 is doing exactly what Mazda hoped it would do. Over time, they could get even more of a break and move up further in that long list of mid-sizers.
Camry fails IIHS small offset crash test. Accord rated Good. Check out the video on youtube.
The Accord has not had any transmission troubles for about a decade.
Have you driven a Camry? Weird and nasty interior imo when I got one as a rental not long ago. Camry also has sloppy handling. Cheaper than Accord? Yes. You get what you pay for in this case.
The Accord has not had any transmission troubles for about a decade.
The small offset crash test is the only reason I haven't bought a new camry. From the NY Times: Jan 8, 2011 - Honda owners' transmission problems are not a surprise to Dennis Madden, ... the Honda Odyssey and “to a lesser extent, Accord,” so I'm not convinced about Honda transmissions. And I am aware of their previous CVT in their hybrid - an absolute disaster.
Perhaps it's just an age thing. I'm in my 50s and looking for good, safe, reliable transportation. There is absolutely nothing that stands out in the camry. But in my eyes the camry has no disqualifiers. Having driven many accords (all of which had horrible a-pillar wind noise) it's a pleasure to drive the camry. It doesn't drive like an accord or the (even better steering) Altima, but I'm using it for transportation and where I live the speed limit is 70 with no shortage of police to look for the spirited drivers.
In 2010 I looked at a crosstour. No wind noise! Not sure why they haven't gotten around to fixing that on the accords after 37 years, but that's not my issue. I would have bought a crosstour, but I found the design to be seriously flawed. Good luck if you plan to carry anything in the back. I wound up buying a venza. Why? After looking at all the competition it was the "default" choice. Nothing special about it, but nothing to disqualify it. The cheap interior (comparable to a yaris, but with ill-fitting dashes) almost did it for me, but compared to what the others were offering it was fine. It's been exactly what I had hoped it would be. Good, reliable (trouble-free), safe transportation.
PS I'm 48.
As you say, Camry is like a cheap Yaris in places. The 2013 Accord is close to an Acura. I almost got an Acura a couple of years ago, and the new Accord is very close. I really like the CVT so far. It is smooth, powerful, and great on gas. Honda put huge R & D into it to make it the best and longest lasting CVT on the market. Car magazines agree that for performance and mpg it is very good. Consumer Reports recommends Accord as their #1 midsize car, and that includes reliability. There are a lot of great choices in midsize--including Optima, Mazda6, Fusion, etc. Perhaps you should look at more of them before writing them all off.
Well, I wouldn't call either the 200 or Avenger competitive in the class. Maybe not "bad", but definitely a notch below the other mid-sizers.
It's really hard to find a "bad" car of any size these days. Even low-end cars like the Fiesta and Rio are nice cars. OK... maybe the Spark. :P
"Upscale Interior
As you’d expect, this major makeover extends to the interior, with exceptional rear-seat legroom, upgraded materials, soft-touch surfaces, and a redesigned instrument panel and gauges. There is a new touch screen in the center stack, with voice-command functionality. The system has USB, iPod, and auxiliary jacks, Bluetooth connectivity for phones and digital music, plus a few knobs to make digital late-bloomers comfortable."
In a subsequent instrumented full test of the Mazda6 below is from the Car & Driver article:
"Material quality is top-shelf throughout, even in the base trim. Smooth leather wraps the three-spoke steering wheel. The instrument panel is fashioned from soft and tightly grained plastic that put us in the mind of a Benz E-class. Satin-chrome bezels highlight the three gauges and dashboard vents. Spears of what appears to be gray granite—it’s actually plastic—cross through the middle of the dashboard. Mazda’s interior is attractive because of its restraint and execution, and it’s a welcome relief from the overdesigned and button-laden starship command decks in some other mid-size sedans."
Car & Driver didn't seem to have any complaints about the interior of the 2014 Mazda6 at all.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Totally concur. I wouldn't even look at a Chrysler or GM product because of my previous experience with them. Have a hard time with Mazdas, too, due to prior experience... although not as bad as Chrysler/GM.
I remember back in 1995 when I was looking for a 4dr sedan and drove the Accord. Whoa, the tranny felt like it had rubber bands in it and it wasn't even a CVT! I ended up with a Maxima which was a great car. Now I have an Acura. If I had let that experience of driving the Accord sour me I might not have even own a Honda product now. Things change and people buy cars for different reasons.
I think that sometimes these reviewers go along with what was said by someone else or they change a few words in previous reviews so they don't "stand out". Classic example: for years now, reviewers have been referring to the camry xle as "luxurious". REALLY? Perhaps they should have gotten in one before they printed their review.
I agree that a lot of auto writers say similar things but then again many of them try to find that one thing that other's missed to make their review stand out. If the Mazda6 was truly that cheap looking(which it isn't IMO) I think it would have been duly noted by a number of them.
As for folks who write off a brand forever, based on experience years ago, that is your prerogative. However, that limits your buying choices. Most of these companies are completely different companies than they were 20 years ago. Look at the quality and reliability data.
Some nameplates within high-scoring brands are not so good, and some within lower scoring brands are great. I bought a VW TDI years ago when VW reliability generally stank. But TDIs were well-rated and fairly bullet-proof. (I still miss that VW from time to time, although I love my Volvo.) And even Toyota is having ongoing struggles with recalls.
Regardless, there are so many good choices now that I suppose you can write off brands and still get pretty much what you want.
I really want to like Chrysler as I think some of their designs are really great and I love most of their interiors. But I think the thing that many people fear, and that would definitely include Camry buyers, is how much time you would have to spend at the dealership for warranty fixes, recalls, etc. And then there is the resale value. Toyota is still light years ahead of Chrysler in resale value. Now if you can get $7+k off sticker on an Avenger and really like the car then one should consider it.
Actually since they've increased the size of the newly announced Mazda3 to close to the dimensions(width, interior, wheelbase) of the 1st gen Mazda6 and the snazzy interior shots I've seen, I just may be looking even more closely at that! I'm thinking it may get 41-43mpg hwy with the full skyactiv treatment now.