Midsize Sedans 2.0

lilengineerboy

I understand the fuel economy part of the equation. I have a ~30 mile each way commute that is 98.4% highway at highway speed (unless its snowing; then everyone goes 10 mph and gets stuck because they have no momentum). My current vehicle gets 30+ mpg on that drive at typical 10 over speeds. With the old car, I would actually take the country roads that took longer to get home but were entertaining to drive. The new car doesn't give me the same inspiration.

Could I drive a smaller vehicle? Yeah there is no reason I need a midsize car, but there was no financial incentive not to get one either. There were other incentives, like the Civic SI sedan would've been much more fun, but oh well.

explorerx4

as an fyi, my main ford dealer pays for an enterprise rental if they need to keep my car overnight.even when i had my focus. i may have to whine a bit(i'm standed at work).
they also have shuttle service to and from work, so i can drop the car off in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon.
i didn't buy my fusion there and bring it to the selling dealer for service, but all the other cars get serviced there.

backy

Your post was unintentionally funny. It was funny because I recall many other posts in Town Hall talking about traffic in Atlanta, and about how people are whizzing around at 80 mph all the time so you need a car with that kind of performance.

I've driven in Atlanta a few times and I think reality is closer to what you described, except maybe late at night or on Sunday morning.

Having lots of choices is a good thing. As long as one of the choices is still a basic small car with the kinds of attributes I described earlier.

stephen987

I'm fortunate that my Atlanta trips (maybe once or twice a month) are most often timed to avoid the worst of the rush hour period. I don't deal with it on a daily basis, so I'll defer to those who do. My own limited experience suggests that at rush hour on weekdays, stop and go for miles is the norm on the interstate. On the other hand, going through town in midafternoon, or on a weekend, the soccer moms in their Range Rovers on the Georgiabahn will try to flatten you if you're running less than 80-85. So you need a car-of-all-trades.

For conditions like these, my ideal car would combine quick reflexes, excellent visibility, and enough sheetmetal to provide safety from the accidents you can't avoid. So as the best compromise I'd go for a sporty-handling midsize sedan with a V6 and a good automatic--probably a Fusion Sport or a Mazda 6s, but there are lots of good options.

iluvmysephia1

But the typical buyer of a Focus/Cobalt/Aveo/Corolla/Civic/Elantra/Accent/Forte/Versa/Sentra etc. is looking first and foremost for economical transportation, IMO.

Did you leave out the Mitsubishi Lancer by mistake or on purpose here? Just curious.

m6user

Don't feel bad....Mazda3 is missing too. Probably just got tired of typing.

backy

First, there was the "etc." Second, I intentionally left out the Mazda3 because I consider that car, especially the MazdaSpeed3 variant, as one of the "sporty" small cars I mentioned for which people are willing to pay a price premium over a typical small car. The Lancer, in certain trims, also fits that category.

I didn't omit your favorite car as a slight. Chill, people. :shades:

acdii

So, now that there is a sales freeze on just about all Toyota's, this gives Ford a chance to take the lead in Fusion sales vs the Camry. Does any one think Ford will step up their marketing campaign?

stephen987

Not me. The Toyota freeze will last a couple of weeks, max. Besides, the Fusion plant in Hermosillo is pretty busy already.

mz6greyghost

So, now that there is a sales freeze on just about all Toyota's, this gives Ford a chance to take the lead in Fusion sales vs the Camry. Does any one think Ford will step up their marketing campaign?

I doubt the Fusion will take the sales lead due to Toyota's issues (if anything the Accord will reclaim the title), and I also doubt that Ford (or any other automaker) will turn this into a marketing ploy, since Toyota's scenario is quite possibly the biggest nightmare for ANY automaker.

Besides, the Fusion IMO is selling well in Ford's eyes. IIRC plants are running at capacity, incentives are very low (if any), and it's hard to find more than 3-4 Fusions on any Ford lot around here, let alone a specific model/color/option.

backy

If anything it might be an opportunity for some makes that are not selling to capacity, e.g. Mazda6, Malibu, Sonata, Altima (?). In particular it's a golden opportunity for Hyundai, since this issue with the Camry coincides with the debut of the 2011 Sonata. Hyundai was already going to push the Sonata and the brand to the hilt on the Super Bowl. Even though Camry sales may resume very quickly, I wonder what kind of residual effect this sales shutdown will cause? It is unprecedented, so a little hard to predict the fallout.

stephen987

The Sonata is a pretty close match for the Camry in a lot of ways (closer than the Accord, Altima or Fusion), and Hyundai will probably increase incentives on the outgoing model in order to make room for the 2011 version. So Hyundai could pick up a significant number of sales if the Toyota shutdown lasts longer than a few weeks.

akirby

Oh trust me - outside of rush hour traffic you'll get run over if you're doing less than 75 - even when it's 55 mph. I think the average speed on GA 400 (which is limited access like the interstates) was actually measured around 80 a few years ago. But during rush hour it's a crawl. Thank goodness I'm only 12 miles from work and use surface streets.

m6user

Maybe someone should take their own advice and chill. My comment was not meant as a reflection on your post but was a reply to the other poster that just because something is left out, it probably wasn't on purpose. I would be hard pressed to think of every compact when making a post about all of them.

Now you come back and say you left them out on purpose for what I consider to be a pretty silly reason......that they offer an array of versions. A basic Mazda3 or Lancer is no more different from other compact cars than the Mazda6 is from other midsize sedans. A little sportier but still, in basic form, all within about $1000 in price. If they came back out with the MazdaSpeed6 would you exlclude the Mazda6 from the ranks of midsize cars?

By the way, the Mazda3 is far from one of my favorite cars.

thegraduate

We do have a Civic Si still...

Anybody with dealer info on when the Sonata will arrive in showrooms? I've read conflicting reports.

backy

OK, I get it.. this is "beat up on backy" week. No problem. Must be a tough week out there for everyone. If nit-picking my posts to death makes folks feel better, that's cool.

One thing I could say is, given that the US car buying public has ignored the Lancer, maybe I could be forgiven for not including it in my little list except as "etc." They've ignored the Galant too. Heck, even Edmunds.com doesn't think the Galant is significant enough to warrant a little picture in this discussion.

And maybe I can be forgiven for having an OPINION that the Mazda3 is sportier than your average compact econobox. Or maybe not.

m6user

C'mon get of the rid of the chip. Take as well as you give. Nobody is questioning someone's opinion. You took my original post wrong and said to chill out for no reason. Just like being called a fanboy, people don't like to be told to "chill out" when they weren't hot or upset in the first place. Just a misunderstanding for god's sake. Let's move on.

aviboy97

Just like being called a fanboy

Let's not bring that back up. I took a pounding for that. LOL!!

Just a misunderstanding for god's sake. Let's move on.

There has been a lot of that this week. Can;t we all just get along?? :shades:

backy

I think you don't realize that my post i.e. "chill out, people" was not directed specifically at you. I just happened to reply to your post within the thread. So please don't take my remarks personally.

Hopefully we can all recover our sense of humor. Soon.

dash5

Two Mazda 3's a nun and a Rabbi walk into a bar... :P

So other than the 2011 Sonata which I know about, are any other cars due for a complete or significant redesign in this segment? Accord, Camry, Altima etc.. anything within say a year from now?

m6user

Camry and Altima are probably the closet, I think they were both last redone for the '07 model year. Accord was redone for '08, Mazda6 for '09, Fulan for '10, Legacy for '10, Malibu '8(I think), Galant was '09(I think). I don't think Sebring is going to be offered long and Aura is gone. Maybe Passat could be due but it seems they may replace it with a new US built midsize car prior to any redo. I'm pretty sure of these details but don't follow a couple of them much so I could be mistaken and stand ready to be critiqued.

maxamillion85

Accord gets a facelift sometime in the fall...don't know how significant it will be, but its coming.

Sebring gets a significant facelift this fall sometime in November...with a possible name change new interior, revised styling, etc. etc. So Sebring may be "dead" but there will be a midsize replacement by November.

Camry will probably be all-new and on sale by this time next year, Toyota tends to release new models early in the year.

Altima probably won't be shown until NY's autoshow April 2011 and won't be released until August-September of 2011 most likely.

When is the NMS from VW being released?

Karen_S

If you are a Toyota owner and interested in sharing your reaction to the recall with reporters, send an email stating the vehicle you own, your telephone number, and the best time you can be reached.

Send to: karen@edmunds.com

PS: Any Toyota owners from Minnesota? We have specific request for that state.

backy

The 2011 Optima should be out within a year or so. Spy pics are out there. Looks similar in profile to the 2011 Sonata--much more rakish than the current Optima. Probably will benefit from the powertrain changes in the new Sonata also. I expect the old 2.7L V6 will finally be gone.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is looking to talk with diehard Chevy fans in the Chicago area. If you are a long-time loyalist, a Chevy collector or have dramatically customized your Chevy, and you live near Chicago, please email pr@edmunds.com no later than February 10, 2010, and provide your daytime phone number and a few words about your passion for the "bow tie" brand.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

jeffyscott

Seems so, WRT Passat.

Volkswagen of America president Stefan Jacoby has confirmed to High Gear Media that the new sedan to be built in Tennessee will effectively replace the VW Passat in North America

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1036261_exclusive-volkswagen-nms-repl- aces-passat-phaeton-to-return

tlong

Accord gets a facelift sometime in the fall...don't know how significant it will be, but its coming.

Perhaps Honda can back in stride and actually release a new model that looks better than the previous one. :surprise:

Camry will be redesigned, at least the gas pedal. :P

akirby

A new gas pedal won't fix the software.

m6user

Interesting article. I like how VW rationalizes the need for a bigger midsize. That we drive longer distance instead of saying that Americans just got too darn big for the Passat.

Bringing back the Phaeton is a mistake I think and it's sad that they will probably move the CC up into luxury territory. Probably a CC w/TDI(I think eventually) will start mid-thirties. Shame.

watkinst

Just went through all of this with my Mother she's retirement age and replacing her old Altima. After driving the new Altima - camry multiple times and reviewing the options packages and prices - she wrote a check for a 2010 Subaru Legacy 2.5I premium package. All said and done she got the car with blue tooth - heated seats and the home link system for 24K.

Her thoughts on all the cars she looked at. She liked the Altima and clearly had a pre set preference for it but the options quickly sent it off the price chart and no 2010's were available yet. Choices were very limited

Camry she liked but felt it was way to floaty and she said that it looked like Toyota forgot to finish the trunk - even went as far to look at multiple camrys to see if maybe the one she first looked at was missing some parts in the trunk space.

The recent rain storms in CA she told me this week she is SOOOOO glad she got the Subaru given her commute has been hell and the subaru sticks to the road like glue.

She got everything she wanted Plus AWD for the price target she was shooting for which both the Nissan and Toyota could not match.

Sonata is interesting for sure.