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Comments
The stereo seems better in the 300C than the T&C.
I actually like SAT and am glad it's offered w/ 1 yr free in the T&C.
That's wonderful if you prefer to take out the seats, clean out the normal stuff that's in there, and take out the second row seats, and go off to Lowes. but as 120 lb. woman with three children, I would prefer not to lug a 40 lb. seat out of my van (TWICE), then load up up 3 bikes (plus helmets, pads, etc) into the van along with 3 kids when deciding to spend a day at the park
but as 120 lb. woman with three children, I would prefer not to lug a 40 lb. seat out of my van (TWICE), then load up up 3 bikes (plus helmets, pads, etc) into the van along with 3 kids when deciding to spend a day at the park
So where do the kids go if you'd have to remove the 2nd row seats twice? Assuming you fold the 3rd row for the bikes, that only leaves the front seat for 3 kids? I'd think you'd only need to fold the 3rd row to fit the bikes?
Unless you want to seat 3 across in the second row or slide the 2 second row seats together to make it easier to access the 3rd row if you have 2nd row captain chairs.
And having the storage under the feet of the 2nd row passengers does reduce the legroom of the Town & Country 2nd & 3rd row by about 4" each as compared to the Odyssey/Sienna.
Personally, I'd rather have more place for my feet than have extra storage under my feet, especially since the Odyssey/Sienna has more storage behind the 3rd row.
Also, do the stowNgo and swivelNgo seats slide fore and aft?
So to me, having the option of 3 across in the 2nd row, more legroom, and the option to slide the 2 second row seats together for easier access to the third row are better options than the stowNgo or Swivel
Hulamom - just so you know, anything Honda doesn't offer is a gimmick, not necessary to anyone, of no value what so ever!! For example, with a Honda, you only get a power hatch on a $40k touring model, but that's ok because it's a gimmick that no one would be interested in. Same with adjustable pedals. Giving people multiple seating options is a gimmick. but I can play the game too....
The Honda "PlusOne" seating is a gimmick in my opinion, the seat is about 10 inches wide at best?? Very uncomfortable for all but a toodler. Maybe it should be called "PlusOneHalf" instead? Does it have a shoulder restraint? Definite Gimmick. and if you're not using it, it takes up what limited in floor storage there is.
From the limited data available, front seat leg room is identical, 2nd favors Honda by roughly 3 inches and 3rd is tied. and if you count in floor storage and rear cargo, Chrysler would beat the Honda easily for total cargo. Then factor in ease of configuring the interior (this would be a gimmick for some because they'd never have need to do this EVER). But more consistent data will probably come from CR but not unbiased ratings of course.
Stow N Go and Swivel N Go seats both adjust fore and aft, and can be heated - Honda? The Swivel N Go seats also rotate up to 180 degrees to aide entry/exit if needed.....i'm sure this is just a gimmick that no one could appreciate (like elderly or people trying to get children buckled in). The 2nd row seats (any of them) slide foward for easy entry to 3rd row. You can get booster seats in either the 2nd row bench or the Swivel N Go buckets - Honda? The 3rd row reclines (power recline when you have power 3rd seat option) and also become a bench for tail gating at children's or sporting events - Honda?
Still sounds to me like Chrysler has everyone covered, or at least more people/lifestyles than anyone else, unless you need to cram a 8th person in for a very short jaunt. Chrysle killed 8 passenger and AWD years ago due to lack of buyers, who went to SUVs. Add in the overall convenience Chrysler offers and it's hard to beat them.
PS- I stopped the other night on the way to a meeting, at a Honda/Buick dealer to kill some time. Wanted to look at an Enclave - it was beautiful, then I looked at the new Accord and an Ody on the other side of dealer's showroom. They still had 07 Odys left over? Wonder why?
The legroom figures come from the manufacturer webpages.
If you ever sat in the 2nd row of the Sienna with 3 seats, you'll know that no-one is "crammed in"
The Honda "PlusOne" seating is a gimmick in my opinion, the seat is about 10 inches wide at best?? Very uncomfortable for all but a toodler
WOW...can't imagine a toddler in a minivan
And if what you say is true, then how come the T&C has never been the top minivan in ANY review?
Do you know how tough it was for me to see those Black Friday portable NAV systems and portable DVD player prices today knowing how much I could save? LOL!! But I certainly knew what I was getting into but splurged anyhow. I've always skipped options telling myself I'd get the aftermarket version for every vehicle I've ever purchsed. This time I just went for it. I'm sort of tight so I have to not think about how much I could have saved and just tell myself that I deserve it for all the options I scrimped on in the past!! Its never worth it but I have the right to be foolish for the first time!!
All the talk about what is a gimmick and what isn't skips the fundamentals--vehicle quality. That's where the Odyssey excels. I'm sorry, guys, but any objective analysis between the Honda and the Chrysler twins will reveal a huge gap in basic, fundamental qualities--the type of plastic uses, the types of controls, components, etc. The Odyssey is an unbelieveable solid vehicle with remarkable build quality. The previous generation Chryslers were subpar, the new one is adequate.
If a consumer is constantly taking seats out and loading up their vans, then Stow N Go is a wonderful feature and they should seriously consider the Chrysler vans, as long as they get the 4.0 engine.
If a consumer is going to be carrying passengers, however, then I think the Odyssey is simply a better vehicle---the seats are more comfortable, there's still a lot of 3rd row flexibilty, it can seat 8 in a pinch, its got great in floor storage, and the driving dynamics are outstanding.
It would be interesting to see/survey how many of the people that don't care as much for the 2008 T&C actually drove one. Seems like many of these people mostly talk about what they've read.
How often do most people drive with 7 or 8 people in their minivans anyway? Not often. Look around as you drive around or in parking lot's - there's usually never 7 or 8 people getting out. So the 8 is better than 7 is a minor plus if you even give it a plus at all. Some on this forum would consider it a gimmick.
Comparing the Honda to the 2008 T&C rear windows lowered (by actually driving both - not reading a magazine about it), the buffeting effect is so much worse with the Honda Od. Not even close. I bet many people don't even test this before they buy. But once they own it (the Honda) you'll be in shock - there is no way ( unless maybe one is hard of hearing) that you can drive with just the 2nd row windows lowered in the Honda Od. You HAVE TO open a front window even if you don't want to or close one of the 2nd row windows which could upset the passenger.
And Honda doesn't even offer 3rd row windows that open. Are they behind the times in window design?
They can't even include a good design for the sliding door track to be concealed perfectly integrated near the rear window like Chrysler has been doing for over 10 yrs. Honda patches in a piece of sheet metal on the exterior to cover the track mechanism. It's ugly and behind the times.
3rd row windows that open is not a gimmick.
So having the ability to have the 2nd row windows lowered can be a gimmick too because you wouldn't want to drive with just those 2 down. It comes in handy though if you're sitting in your car while not driving it.
Here's a possible gimmick available w/ T&C but I don't think it's available with the Od. - turn signals in the mirrors. Besides being cool, also a good safety feature. Is that a gimmick?
Another feature the T&C offers is a rechargeable flashlight integrated in the the side wall storage area behind the 3rd row. Another nice feature. But not a necessity, and not a gimmick. It will come in handy.
And the 2nd row seats in the T&C slide back & forth to give enough legroom for the 2nd & 3rd row passengers. So even if the Od. may have more legroom, the T&C is not uncomfortable. Without having to physical remove any seats out of the vehicle, no minivan has more legroom for the 3rd row than the T&C with the Stow N Go seats (actually comfortable and much more so than the original Stow N Go) stowed or with the Swivel N Go swiveled toward the back with the 3rd row stowed. Now that's a huge amount of more leg room with the T&C. Too bad you can't have the stadium seating with the 3rd row with the Honda Od.
"I'm sorry, guys, but any objective analysis between the Honda and the Chrysler twins will reveal a huge gap in basic, fundamental qualities--the type of plastic uses, the types of controls, components, etc."
There's no huge gap comparing the T&C.
I agree T&C could have done a better job with cushioning/padding areas where one rest their arms instead of the hard plastic. The 2005 Chrysler 300C I have has some hard plastic too and for 2008 the Chrysler 300C has padding in those areas. So I'm surprised the 2008 T&C still has the hard plastic. But it's not uncomfortable. And regardless of the types of plastics used in either - it's not about to break down or wear out.
With the T&C the AC and heating are excellent, heated 2nd row seats that other minivan owners wish they had, good handling, nice ride, lot's of storage area places for 1st & 2nd row (wow Honda has a little folding table (no storage area), pivoting interior lighting like in planes, nice overhead ambient lighting, nice looking exterior and more.
So we can all play the silly game of what we prefer, comparing features, etc. At the end, we pick what we prefer. One is not clearly better than the other in all areas of comparison, but I prefer the T&C Limited. And if I was offered both fully loaded for free, I would pick the T&C and if when I was ready to buy one, I would still pick the T&C which also has the Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.
There are still compromises. Even the very knowlegeable, award winning Honda sales rep admitted it to me at the car show. That's the reality. The "best" minivan would combine all the "best" features of each. So far no one has done that. And features you do not want aren't neccessarily gimmicks. They're more like "bells and whistles". And if they didn't cost more, more people than fewer would want as many as possible.
The Odyssey has ALWAYS had the most comfortable seating in all 3 rows and the best foot and leg room for 2nd and 3rd rows. I like the 2001 Ody EX seats even better than later years and the Plus One middle seat of the Ody 2nd row is MORE comfortable for me than either 2nd row seat of my 06 Sienna LE but I am not a "person of size" or "elegant dimensions". Both the Ody and Sienna have better toe space under 2nd row for 3rd row passengers than does ANY T&C or GC.
The Sienna LE has always had the nicest front door panels while the T&C/GC have always had the BEST HVAC in moderately priced models.
Roll down windows in sliding doors is a gimmick but my Sienna also has pop out rear side windows that are helpful. Chrysler had the better idea of a separate control for each rear side window while Toyota has one button control both and since 2005, the Ody rear side windows do not open.
The 5 or 6 speed AT is of questionable value in my opinion (comparing the 5 speed AT in Sienna with 4 speed AT in either T&C or Ody). The Sienna gets marginally better gas mileage with the 3.3L and 5 speed AT than the T&C got with 3.3L and old fashioned 4 speed AT.
However, if one wants to drag race their minivan, the Sienna 3.5L would be the minivan of choice unless one wants a GC or T&C 4.0L with MSRP well above $30,000. :shades:
Having said that - it's about the price. If you are a buyer who keeps your car for five years or more then you have to look at your overall costs. If you get a new car every couple of years and you are in the leasing market - then you have to go with the best monthly payment. I know people who have spent months researching the "perfect" vehicle and then wound up going with something totally different because they found a lower payment. I personally am a price shopper. I find the vehicle with the best payments (I lease) - then I check out the reveiews - then I go with the most options that I can get for my budget. Town and Country seems to cover ALL the bases for me, but I know people who love their Honda and I even have a couple of friends with Siennas that are a few years old and still going strong.
Actually the review that matters most is from people who actually put their own hard earned money down for a vehicle, and it seems, at least according to recent sales reports, Chrysler is again setting records with minivans.
Manufacturer's measuring methods vary from each OEM, that why I'd wait until CR does their next minivan comparison - whenever that may be. Being a CR skeptic, I wouldn't be surprised if they wait til a new import minivan comes out...kinda ignore Chrysler's.
I do remember reading article on Honda's reasoning for this design, in Automotive Engineering mag years ago. Consider Honda has had years to copy Chrysler if they wanted (Ford did with their last minivan). Honda engineering felt having the track exactly centered in door would provide smoother opening and closing as the door would be better balanced (function over appearance). I just played with an 08 Ody last week and definitely felt the Chrysler mechanism was smoother and quieter, opening and closing though.
Right now though, Chrysler definitely has all the best features of every minivan, some that aren't even available, the flexibility in ordering specific features you can't from others (say power hatch, adjustable pedals, or seating package to fit your needs), and the best warranty.
The actual number of units sold is fine, but domestic manufacturers sell many of their vehicles to fleets. I live near a major international airport and on occassion I drive past the rental car lots. There are row upon row of Dodge Grand Caravans sitting there. The first 5-6 I saw on the road were rentals (you can tell because they have a barcode on the window).
I've never seen a Honda Odyssey in a rental car lot. But congratulations to Dodge for selling vans at rock bottom prices to fleets. That clearly indicates its a better vehicle than the Honda.
Resale value as a percentage of ACTUAL purchase price is not much worst than the imports. If you look at my 3 year van that stickered for $28k and now is worth about $16k, that looks terrible but factor in actual purchase price of $20k, after 3 years.....not bad at all. Now some might have paid more but overall, you can't put much faith in resale because most sites only factor it using MSRP numbers - they have no other way. They also don't factor in dealer markups either. Also, I saved over $9k dollar over a few other minivans I looked at....what's the difference in resale if I had put that in the bank for 3 years AND not financed it (the time value of money?)
Still the best indicator of what consumers think is sales - plain and simple. Chrysler minivan sales up 25% on new 08s, with over 11 million sold over 25 years, and the imports are resorting to special deals. That's a really simple indicator without having to resort to counting black dots, funky resale percentages, quibbling over gimmicks or bashing other brands.
I've seen Odys and Accords in rental lots...mostly in CA though.
And I still value dozens of objective, professional reviews over someone who bought a vehicle and is defending their purchase any day.
The lame nonsense that Chrysler numbers are high because of rental/fleet sales is just an excuse for Honda and Toyota lovers to justify paying too much for their new Odyssey or Sienna. :shades:
At prices much lower than new.
It's weird though - some people think VW's are very unreliable. So why would they be rank so high for resale value?
1.) Cost a fair deal of money for repairs; repairs that started in 40k mile territory (new A/C twice in one New Beetle, A/C shorted electrical circuitry...it goes on and on).
2.) An immense amount of dissatisfaction with dealer service.
VWs being German, people are willing to pay more for them for German engineering. Unfortunately, you pay through the nose in repairs for that (not-so) excellent German reliability.
I'd go with the Chrysler product before I'd go with VW, and we've been burned by Chrysler both times with the only 2 Chrysler vehicles we ever had. At least Chrysler has a better dealer network...
You may want to reconsider what you just said because most of the people "defending their purchase" are giving you feedback based on more than a few hrs. of "professionals" testing the vehicle.
And wouldn't you also want to test drive the car you are considering to buy yourself? Or should someone just take the word of the "professional" at face value and make a decision based soley on mag. reviews?
What are some of the credentials of these "professionals? " They test drive cars for a living? Is that all they do? Do they have other jobs? And why are there differences of opinions of these "professionals"? One would think, based on what you're saying, they should all agree. After all, they are "professionals", right?
And if CR has black dots for a car for certain categories and with my same car I do not have those problems to rate it a black dot, I must be one of the few lucky ones, right?
I give a lot of credit to actual personal long term driving experience. Reading the "professional" reviews may or may not confirm my findings & experience. If a professional says something amazing about a car that I find just average, I would have my doubts about that "professional". That's human nature. I'm sure you can remember things where your opinion was different than the "professional" and thought "what are they, nuts?"
Use "professionals" loosely. I live in Detroit, working in the automotive industry directly, belong to a number of car clubs, and know many of these "professionals". Some of these people are ex Big 3 employees with grudges and baggage like people who leave any employer. Yes, all they do is drive cars. Now that I think of it, I can't name a single person who owns a new car, many own old Detroit iron and have use of over 20 some cars. They don't drive or own new vehicles.
I like defending my purchase, not from the professionals but from people on here who love to bash other brands. I like people who make assumptions about a brand, proving they haven't even taken 5 minutes to check it out before having an opinion...i.e...."does the 2nd row seats adjust fore and aft" or people complaining about Stow N Go comfort, who don't even own a Chrysler?? It's as stupid as my comments about "PlusOne" seating.....done on purpose.
Curious about where are all the personal reviews about the 2008 Honda Od. Seems like no one is int. in it's add on features for 2008 or disappointed it didn't make much of a change because they're still looking for 2007's.
Can't recall many people talking about how much they still like their 10 yr. old Od. Not many on the road. Yet many 10 yr. old, unreliable, piece of junk
Remember what it use to mean as far as quality "made in Japan"? They have come along way.
We went to church tonight just as usual. Just for fun, I took inventory of what i saw in the parking lot. I was looking for current gen Ody's, current gen Sienna's and last gen DCS/CTC (not fair to look for the 08 and didn't see any). I saw 3 last gen Chrysler minivans, 5 Sienna's, and 11 current gen Ody's not including mine.
Is that representative of the entire country? Of course not. It just depends on where you are.
I bought a 2007 because I got an amazing deal on it. I paid $25,000 for a $32k list price vehicle. CarMax is selling my exact vehicle, only with 11k miles, for $28998 3 miles from me. The same model in 2008 form is going for $29-30k and it will stay that way for most of 2008.
I'll guarantee you that my $25k Ody EX-L will hold its value better than a $25k 08 Grand Caravan.
As far as car reviews....whatever. People can believe whatever they want. If you really think that every single minivan review (all of which pretty much EVER have ranked the Honda and Toyota above the Chrysler) are "biased" than perhaps you can channel some of that energy into finding Nicole Brown's real killer or getting to the bottom of that whole JFK assasination thing.
Best price for a 2007 Ody EX (cloth) here was $ 28,133 + Doc Fee + sales tax + etc. and the price was not that good for a 2006 Ody EX (cloth) when I got my 06 Sienna LE
I am going to copy and print your posted data to show my Honda dealer to ask if they can come close to the deal you made. My best guess is that here a 2007 Ody EX-L equipped as yours best price would be over $ 30,000. In addition, the Doc Fee (same as your Processing Fee) is $ 499 at some Honda dealers. :confuse:
'Course you can take that for what it's worth..... I'm still trying to figure out what the poster, can't remember who it was means by the Sienna's "floaty" ride. Someday I'm going to test drive that pesty Odyssey and figure out what the heck all the hype is about! If you look in my church's parking lot, you will see more Siennas than any other van. It is true outside of the parking lot, also. Certainly that's unscientific. I am a 1GR Sienna owner(until someone stole mine),and I'm a 2GR owner... and truth be told, I'd probably buy another one. I know what I like, and D/C, and Honda just ain't it! :P
Don't drive the Odyssey. IF you do, you won't like your Sienna as well as you now do unless you like to drag race and love the more up-scale front door panels of the Sienna. :shades:
You'll be surprised on the 2007 Ody prices. There's a $2500 rebate on them right now, not to mention major dealer discounts. My timing was very good. I'm sure that when you were shopping when you got the Sienna, the deal was nowhere near as good. But, as they say, timing is everything.
Doc fees vary greatly. Honda dealers are no different than any others--some charge ridiculous amounts. I've seen it everywhere---around here, there are some major "chains" like Rosenthal, Ourisman, Pohanka, Koons, that sell all different brands and they all have the same doc fees.
I'm fortunate to be able to buy in Maryland (though I live in VA) where there is a state law limiting doc fees to $100.
We liked the Sienna too. I would have no qualms about buying one. But the deal was much better on the Ody, and we preferred the driving characteristics and plus one seat of the Ody better. A major detriment for me with the Sienna is the packaging--I had been serious about buying one, it would have been very hard to find one packaged how I wanted.
And...this is completely subjective...but we liked the look of the Ody the best of the minivans.
You'll find my complete deal on that forum. Please do show it to your Honda dealer. He'll probably tell you I did very well, but he'd be able to offer you something in that ballpark. I had a number of dealers at $500 more than what I ended up paying.
Hey...bring your Sienna over to CarMax and trade for an Ody.
(PS--the Sienna ride is floaty. It depends on what you like, its not neccesarily a bad thing. I just think the steering is mushy and inprecise which bothers me more than the ride.)
(PSS--Siennami...you say you know what you like, and the "Odyssey ain't it." Above that, you stated that "someday I'll have to test drive that pesky Odyssey..."
How can you be so definitive that you don't like the Odyssey if you've never driven it? If you like your Sienna that's great, but at least drive both of them before you declare a preference for one over the other. As a happy 07 Camry owner I was leaning toward the Sienna going into this, but driving the vans really changed my mind.)
Did you really mean an Odyssey or Sienna?
Okay, here are the FACTS from your November 24th "Detroit News": "Chrysler LLC's recent sales figures appear to prove that minivan demand is not dead even though rivals have scrapped their entries in the segment.
Consumers and dealers are giving thumbs up to Chrysler's new family haulers. In October, the first full month of sales of the redesigned Chrysler Town & Country and the Dodge Grand Caravan, sales were up 4.8 percent over the same month last year -- in a market segment that has shrunk 6.5 percent year-over-year.
Among manufacturers offering a minivan in their 2008 line-up, Honda was the only other to show growth in the segment, with a 30 percent increase over October last year. Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. have dropped minivans from their offerings."
"The Caravan is in danger of losing its title of best-selling minivan to the Honda Odyssey, which through 10 months this year has sold 3,000 more units. Libby said buyers should look for some Caravan incentives yet this year as the automaker strives to retain its title.".
Where did you come up with your numbers?
The bolding was not in the DN article but added by me to aid in making my point..
No...a black circle doesn't mean that everyone, or even most people will have a particular problem, but only that the probability of this problems will be higher than if there was a red circle. I'm not a big fan of CRs circle ratings. I wish there would be more details on the percentages of problems, but the circle rating isn't a bad way of comparing different vehicles.
The advantage with professional reviews is that they drive a lot of different vehicles, they haven't paid for the vehicles, so there's no bias based on the fact that they just forked over many thousands on something, and they're not paid by the manufacturer.
2008 EX 26636.00
(This price includes the Destination & Handling Fee. Tax, title, license, document fee, and accessories are additional.)
2007 EX $23651.00 plus fees
Is the price good enough? Do I get another $2500 for 2007 EX if I buy before end of the month?
Thanks a million!
The Town & Country drove the automaker's minivan growth last month, outselling the Caravan by about 1,000 vehicles. Town & Country sales grew 26 percent from October of last year, while Grand Caravan sales dipped 11.6 percent, according to sales figures from Autodata Corp.
Part of that dip can be attributed to Chrysler discontinuing in 2008 its less expensive Caravan model, Libby said. That cuts out buyers looking for an entry-level van priced between $16,000 and $21,000.
"The bolding was not in the DN article but added by me to aid in making my point" that you failed to include.
I'm sure the '07 price includes the $2500. My gut, without knowing the exact numbers, is that you can do better on the '07.
For all the R&D and marketing Chrysler put into those vans, a single digit increase in sales is not very impressive. The TC number is good, at least. But the buyers looking for entry level vans are moving to....what?
I'd be curious to see what percentage of those sales are fleet. I'm sure its a smaller percent than in 2007, but its multiple times more than the competition, save for the Hyundai.
OK - so you almost made my point more clear - more current gen. Ody's on the road today than prev. gen. on the road. Where are all the 10 yr old Ody's?
What do you mean? Wasn't really a minivan? What would you call it? What did Honda call it? You could seat 7 in it. Why - because it didn't have sliding doors? You see what yr. Ody's on the road every day?
Here's something interesting: Are these the facts?:
"Honda Odyssey
The Odyssey minivan debuted in 1995. The first generation Odyssey was powered by a four-cylinder engine. It also was the first in its class of vehicles whose doors could be swung open like a car. It first came in the LX and EX versions. The LX version sat seven passengers, with independent front seats, a bench seat in the middle that seats three and a rear seat that also seats three. In 1998, the engine was redesigned to a 2.3 Liter VTEC engine. Despite the engine change, the market and most customers felt that its engine was not very powerful and as a result its sales suffered. The Odyssey was bought and used by the ISUZU Company for its collection of vehicles and renamed the OASIS.
The Second generation Odyssey hit the roads in 1999. The new model was bigger in size than its predecessor was. The back doors of the newly redesigned minivan slid open or closed, unlike the swing open fashion of the earlier version. It was powered by a six cylinder engine and an automatic four gear transmission. It was the first minivan to offer a seat that could be folded into the floor. In 2000, the vehicle got a navigation system that was linked to a Honda satellite. In 2002, it was redesigned with a five gear automatic transmission, airbags on the sides and disc brakes at the back. The transmission of the second generation Odyssey had some problems and the company changed the transmission at no charge to their customers. Honda also extended the vehicle warranty to 100,000 miles or 7 years, whichever came first.
Honda debuted the third generation Odyssey in 2005. The weight and width of the Honda Odyssey was greater than its predecessor. The engine of the new Odyssey was increased and it came in four models; LX, EX, EX-L, and Touring. The new Odyssey had glove boxes for both driver and the passenger sitting in the front seat. The transmission was now fitted to the floor unlike the earlier version where it was fixed to the Steering wheel. "
I stated printed facts, not my opinion.
Source: MSN Autos
I just didn't count them. I wanted a fair comparison between the most current generation of vehicles.
I see a ton of 1999+ Ody's. I don't see the pre-99 ones except in NYC (taxi's). If your point is that there are more pre-1999 Chrysler minivans than Honda's, then I happily concede. Post 99, around here, you'll see more Odysseys. In Detroit, no way. So what? MY point was that the number of vehicles sold really doesn't mean much.
Actually, I don't quite get what your point is...explain.
I don't think I saw a single post stating "rebates".....there's dealers incentives which are kept private from public unless you have a decent dealer (yeah RIGHT!!). That's why it's imperative that anyone in market check out the weekly "Automotive News"....in the back they list customer and dealer incentives.
I LOVE my 45 year old POC......63 Corvair Monza Coupe!!! I don't know how reliable it is, but with 2300 original miles (sat in museum for decades) it shouldn't be too bad.
Funny how long it took GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota to get the formula down.....over a decade. Truck based from GM/Ford, tall wagon from Honda and weird midengine from Toyota.
Keep the reviews and dubious resale....I'll take real people over some name in a magazine, I'll take American made and American profit center over imports, I'll take the best warranty, most flexible options, seating configs/storage, and best value anyday.
I got a kick watching a Honda commercial the other night proclaiming "Best Selling Minivan" for the Ody........in fine print it stated a specific time period....like 6 months I think. Normally you would use an entire model year, not cherry pick a time period. What's next? Honda bundling MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline numbers into the mix since they're all the same basic platform?
That's right. Thanks for the reminder that we all share the same idea of value. Sheesh, I can't believe I had forgotten that. :sick:
Buy what's best for YOU, that doesn't make it the best value to someone else.
Say you could buy Car A for $30,000 or Car B for $25,000. You really like Car A and dislike Car B. Both cars accomplish nearly the same thing, but you don't like Car B for personal reasons (styling, handling, the way the door ajar chime sounds, whatever). Which is the better buy?
If one can afford it, why wouldn't they spend more money on a vehicle they are satisfied with? To you, it looks like wasted money, because you are satisfied with B. To those dissatisfied with B, they'd be spending $25k for something they dislike; in other words, they'd be making a poor value decision.
I'm glad you liked the less expensive choice, that's just a bonus of cash in your pocket. For others, having the car that satisfies them more is worth more than the money they'd get from getting their "Car B."
Probability based on 100 respondents to their 20 page survey.
The advantage with professional reviews is that they drive a lot of different vehicles, they haven't paid for the vehicles, so there's no bias based on the fact that they just forked over many thousands on something, and they're not paid by the manufacturer.
LOL, "Here Mr Auto Writer, here's a brand new Porche 911, fully loaded, everything paid for, including your free trip to CA for the debut party and highway 1 test drive, your B&B accomodations. Ohh you can keep it for a year too, use it on vacation but if you want another one, you better write an fair, objective report on it". Like all people, writers have a bias.