better performance and the seats were nicer. I don't think the D3 had anything in that class at the time, though the 2L Neon came out shortly thereafter.
The 150hp 2.0L Neon came out in '95, then the ACR package which was popular in the SCCA competition, as were the SE-Rs. I bought one shortly out of college. It performed well but was a crude beast, not nearly as refined as the Sentra SE-R or the Civic SI. Ford had the Mazda based Escort GT, but it was outgunned by the mid 90's and the Cavalier Z24 was ho hum overall. That market has kind of dried up and GM finally saves the best for last with the new Cobalt SS, great performing compact in a completely forgettable package.
"WOW!!! You really don't know what you are talking about. UAW workers aren't allowed to just go home early after producing there quota for the day.
"More lies you have been told and believed.
Flint Strikes Settled, But Issues Go Unresolved The settlements contain concessions. The controversial "pegged rates," which allow a few hundred workers to stop work early if they meet their quotas, will be preserved, but the quotas are jacked-up 15 percent. This is a significant speed-up that will reduce any extra break time these heavy, dirty jobs might allow.
At the Delphi East plant the union agreed to continue working with the company to increase productivity"
The problem, gagrice, is that aside from whining that UAW floor sweepers deserve $35/hour, nothing stated seems to be true, at least contradicted by the cites you find (I wish I had your talent at finding those cites)...so, while growing up, he was brainwashed into the UAW mindset, and even he has no idea just how much featherbedded costs have been placed on the Big 3 over the last 40 years...if one could just open their eyes, they would understand why productivity and quality in the unionized Big 3 has down down the tubes...
Andm at Delphi east, rest assured that as long as the UAW exists, there will be NO productivity increases until the work rules are suspended forever...or else they too will go home after working an hour or two...
rock: your sense of reality even in your unionized mind is not even close to the excessive labor costs placed on the Big 3...I am ALMOST beginning to wonder if legacy costs are the true problem or simply cutting the current labor cost to the level of Honda might just solve the problem, meaning shedding 2/3 of the remaining workers and dumping all work rules except one: "Work where we tell you, without any restrictions, or someone else will"...
What the UAW did in the 30s and 40s was admirable...now they need to die...
Get back to us after you've compared crime rates in the 1960s to crime rates in the 1950s (let alone the 1930s). The economy was booming in the 1960s...I keep hearing on this very site how they were the "good old days." Yet crime rates skyrocketed.
rockylee: Economy down, crime up?
Except that the article begins with this sentence: Even though there is no concrete data available to support it, Wilson Police Chief Harry Tyson believes the struggling economy could be a contributing factor in the increase in property crimes across the state and in Wilson.
Let's learn the difference between statistics and anecdotal evidence.
Your third site contains, at best, contradictory evidence, and notes that crime rates fell during the Great Depression. And the story from USA Today contains the heart-rending story of the man who is shoplifting...shrimp. I didn't realize that shrimp is a now a necessary part of one's diet.
One hopes he also shoplifted the appropriate sauce and spices to go with the shrimp, as plain shrimp is rather boring.
".....Of course they never broke! They usually collapsed into a pile of iron oxide dust and dry-rotted plastic after a winter or two. They never had a chance to break!"...I am so sorry lemko, you are just plain wrong..."
He may be overstating it, but from my experiences with those trucks, they did rot out fairly quickly up here. IIRC, Toyota used a 2 piece fender on the outer bed wall, and sealed it with some sort of silicone. The rust/rot would start at that seam and go from there. Now, mind you we are talking about a truck, and even replacing the entire bed is a fairly easy and inexpensive thing to do. Many around here in the '70's and '80's had mismatched colored beds.
Unions in general have out lived themselves, and I was a union worker and shop stewart. Unions were necessary in the early industrialization of this country and probably up into the 1950's; but now they're just another big business. I remember going out on strike for what the union called "Big Bucks" a dollar an hr. across the board. The wife had a good job so we took a vacation went to Va. beach; had to come home 2 days later. The union settled for $0.17/hr and agency shop; and to think I still had to pay them for negoiating that contract. Also had a friend worked in a steel mill; he couldn't wait to get laid off (in the early 70's). He told me he could make almost as much between unemployment and sub pay as he could if he were working. And wasn't it the UAW who asked for a big raise in the 70's or 80's, after Uncle put the big excise tax on the imports to create more equal competition? LOL!
".....Third, do you realize that 1970 was almost 40 years ago?"
So, are we to believe that lem's father shouldn't hold a grudge against Nissan for a substandard car built in 1974, yet others who got a substandard GM car in 1974 and haven't bought a GM car since SHOULD??
about all of these foreign all-electrics and air-powered rigs I keep pasting in here. Show us the cars and let us read up for hours about them, let us see all the pictures we can get our mouse and paws on, and, finally, let us test-drive them.
We still are the biggest automotive market in the world, though China is bumping up against us this year. We will eventually buy new cars again, although we're(my wife and I) not gonna budge and buy anything new or used for quite some time.
But these new technology cars have been more than just a passing interest to me for about the last year and a half. I would like to get my hands on an all-electric. The Volt is gonna have to almost perfect and perform like a champ and deliver in the mpg category. The public is not going to tolerate having to go back to the service center and eat raspberry gloppy donuts and drink burnt coffee. Time to put up, GM. How 'bout upping that Warranty to match Mitsubishi and HyunKia's fantastic Warranties.
Reading that article in the new Road and Track really conveyed the notion that Chev gets it, they are frying in the hot seat and fighting for their survival. And whatever other rigs they're working on, small or large, the 2010 Chevy Volt is the most important one on the docket for them. They have a lot of money riding on it and a lot of proving to the automotive world to do. That is the only GM product I am even remotely interested in now, too, fancy that.
Time to put your best UAW workers on this pup and produce a viable, affordable rig for the new world order masses.
So, are we to believe that lem's father shouldn't hold a grudge against Nissan for a substandard car built in 1974, yet others who got a substandard GM car in 1974 and haven't bought a GM car since SHOULD??
Good point. The 70s were a low point for the industry. I wouldn't draw conclusions about any brand sold today, whether foreign or domestic, based on how bad it was 35 years ago.
businessweek.com — There's a surprising addition to the list of automakers asking for billions of dollars in bailout funds. Difficulties raising funds in the U.S. mean Toyota now has something in common with its ailing Detroit competitors: It is following their lead and turning to the state for a helping hand. According to reports in Japan's local media, Toyota is in talks to borrow a little over $2 billion from the state-backed Japan Bank for International Cooperation to secure funds for its U.S. operations. Toyota, which expects to lose $3.9 billion this year, through a spokesman confirmed it is discussing the loan, but declined to discuss the details.
Hey, why not, seems to be the thing to do these days. Business down? Hit the taxpayers up for a handout. Even though there are 4 Toyotas in my driveway, there won't be another one. When the time comes for my next vehicle, it will be Honda or Ford, and a big deciding factor will be percent of American parts, that is US American parts content.
Wow! Are we discussing buying new cars, or holding a grudge?
First off, I pointed out that lemko likely was too young in the 70's to even have a driver's license. Thus his opinions are third person only: "I have an aunt with a third cousin who knew a mechanic who did not directly service Japanese cars, but his stepfather yada, yada, yada....."
Second, 1970 was in fact, nearly 40 years ago. The real point is: Which car companies solved their problems and greatly improved their products since then? GM or the Japanese? Who dominates the market today? You tell me.....
40 years ago is that the Big 3 really did not improve their product until the wave of Japanese imports and Big 3 loss of market share forced them to do something...please do not tell me that GM would have made their 90s cars any better than the junk of the 70s/80s if they did not have the Japanese breathing down their necks...the reason they made the 70s/80s junk in the first place was simply because THEY COULD, thinking we had no place else to go...and we didn't until the mid-80s...
No question, the Japanese products of the 70s were not that good, but by the mid-80s they had paid attention and radically improved their product...heck, only 7-10 years ago, Hyundai was a joke from Korea, and now we have the Genesis...if the Big 3 had gone on an improvement program like that, we would not have Toyota and Honda now, as the Detroit car would be top notch...but, with the union, that is simply not meant to be so...
So, it is not about holding a grudge, but paying attention to the automakers who, not only screwed their buyers in the 70s and 80s, but CONTINUED to do so in the 90s and beyond...gagrice, while only one person, has spoken about his UAW made pickup that is junk from just a few years ago...
People are simply getting fed up with Detroit iron that just is NOT that good...folks who would never look at an import 10 years ago are now walking into Toy/Hon showrooms (well, maybe not right now, but in the last year or so before the trash hit the fan in September) because they have had it with Big 3 cars that do not compare in quality and reliability to the imports...
The biggest jump in American quality will come when they dump the UAW and bring in ALL new workers, folks who do not have union DNA in their system, folks who are simply glad to work for a days pay...training them will be easy, just a day or two...and the floor sweeper will simply be ecstatic to have group insurance as a benefit, because he never thought that he would as a floorsweeper...
People grateful for jobs will work hard to keep them...people who think the world OWES them a job ain't worth crap...time to dump the union, permanently...it has outlived its usefulness for the last 30 years or more...
cooterbfd: So, are we to believe that lem's father shouldn't hold a grudge against Nissan for a substandard car built in 1974, yet others who got a substandard GM car in 1974 and haven't bought a GM car since SHOULD??
First, we weren't comparing Datsuns and Toyotas to full-size Fords and Chevys in the 1970s. People weren't cross-shopping Chevrolet Impalas or Ford LTD Broughams with Toyota Coronas or Datsun 610s. We were comparing them to the Vega, Pinto and Gremlin, and the Japanese cars were FAR superior to their domestic competition.
Second, GM didn't stop building substandard cars in 1974. If anything, the company's downhill slide gathered momentum after the first fuel crunch, as it rushed jerry-rigged drivetrains into production to improve fuel economy. The company's quality is still relatively uneven (although getting better with each redesigned model).
>" would much rather shoot my Ruger Bisley .45 Long Colt than my Freedom Arms 454 Casull."
Yep! That 454 is a hand full. The 45 Colt can also be hand loaded to some pretty serious ballistics. One of my older reloading manuals has a section for the 45 Colt, and a sub section for hotter 45 Colt rounds to only be used in Freedom Arms, and one of the Ruger models.
FWIW: Pretty sure you can shoot 45 Colt in the 454 Revolver, but not visa-versa. .
>"Here is the point. If the UAW would build a car like Freedom Arms builds a revolver we would not have this thread and GM would still be selling 50% of the cars in America."
I agree!
When the VW Beetle hit our shore they sold like hot cakes. They were a simple car with a 40 HP engine. Didn't even have a gas gauge. Instead, they had a lever on the fire wall that could be turned to "Reserve" if the thing ran out of gas.
The sheer number of VWs, that were being sold, should have been a red flag for the D3. But the only UAW competition for the Beetle was the Corvair, that didn't last very long. Fiat and Renault also had rear engine offerings here. They ran a bit stronger than the Beetle. But they were somewhat unreliable. More red flags. None of the offerings, including VW, got particularly great mileage. But people were buying reliability and the "Scoot Around" capability of the toy cars. Fiat and Renault went away, probably because of their un reliability problems.
Well... now we are in a new era. That of extreme "Green" and extreme MPG. D3 have the capabilities, but do they have the "will"? The Saturn Vue is a joke. The Volt is a much better "IDEA" but way to expensive. We need a "Plug In" electric 40 or 50 mile small commuter sedan or Hatchback in the $10k to $12k range.
Electric motors and controllers don't cost anywhere near what gas ones, with all the EPA stuff, do. The company that does this first is going to be in the cat bird seat for quite a while. And it may be a company that isn't even on the radar right now.
Down side to the "Plug In" might be if "Electricity cost Sky Rocket" as the president has promised. :sick:
The sheer number of VWs, that were being sold, should have been a red flag for the D3
You know, it's kind of comical, the D3 get hit in the face time and time again, and they just don't get it. VW, Honda, and Toyota have all smacked the D3 right in the face. Nissan and BMW as well. And now it's Kia and Hyundai taking their turns.
How many times do the D3 have to get hit in the face before they get it?
People want cheap reliable transportation that will hold its value better than its competition. R&R, is what it's all about, Resale and Reliability.
the D3 get hit in the face time and time again, and they just don't get it
There was a time when the Rabbit Diesel PU was being built in PA, it was the highest US content PU truck you could buy. Did the UAW run VW out of business in 1988? Did the UAW queer the deal on building their new plant in Michigan? Was that why VW located in TN with their new plant? They may not want a repeat of their UAW dealings.
But the UAW has a history with Volkswagen. The automaker's first U.S. factory, located in New Stanton, Penn., was also the first foreign-owned auto plant to be organized by UAW. The plant closed in 1988 after a 10-year run.
>But people were buying reliability and the "Scoot Around" capability of the toy cars.
Are you talking about the VW Beetles with the "reliability" term? I recall people having to stop in the middle of long drives to adjust the valves. No heater: maybe that worked in TX and FL but not in OH and IN
You only had to adjust the valves every 4000 miles on the early Beetles Most cars back then were more like 12k mile valve adjustment. And they made a gas heater. On the VW Beetle I drove to Alaska it caught fire. I did have a fire extinguisher and no serious damage. I had a slight gas leak. The Beetle was not the paragon of reliability. I had to work on every vehicle until I bought a new 1970 Datsun PU. It ran without a problem the 3 years I owned it.
I drove a '73 Bug up there too and back and it ran fine.
Maybe because it was screwed together by German union workers?
Chrysler hit everyone in the head with the Caravan in '84, and the other D2 followed suit, as did the foreign manufacturers. But you can't do a fresh design/build like that in a couple of months, so Chrysler had a two year long gravy train.
And nowhere does the article state about the cars that have missing parts, extra parts, parts that are not screwed/welded together, and stuff that just does not work right, all the product of UAW (lack of) workmanship...
Aside from lemko, many here have posted of UAW cars they bought that were poorly put together or fell apart or needed constant repairs, and much of that fault lies with the UAW...
The Time article must have been written by Gettlefinger himself, or his brother in law...
AMEN!!!! I totally agree!! The UAW has killed the US auto industry. The amount of labor cost in US cars is ridiculous. You simply can't pay someone $100K+ to build a car then expect a person making 30-40K to buy it. D@M# do the math!!! It doesn't add up..."the chicken have come home to roost".
The way I see it ALL cars have become too expensive for the avg worker here or abroad! Although there are many who can afford the current prices, the "bread & butter" sector cannot! That is why people are flocking to used cars.
I conclude 3 simple "truths": 1. The UAW has killed the US automakers. 2. The US auto makers have killed themselves by not offering superior line of vehicles acrooss the spectrum. 3. Cars have become to expensive...ALL manufacturers.
Well I'm sure those tied to the industry will refute everything I stated, but that's OK...your a victim of the auto industry culture. And no I'm not jealous of what they pay them....I make more...I'm skilled & I have a BS degree!
The United States peaked as a manufacturing economy in 1960, with manufacturing employees making up 26 percent of the workforce. They now make up less than 10 percent.
The United States decided to outsource manufacturing jobs because we were going to do the thinking for the world. The country decided to take the easy path of financial engineering, rather than the hard path of creating products that other countries would buy.
The trade deficit reached $677 billion in 2008. Borrowing from the Chinese and Japanese to buy stuff produced by China and Japan could not go on forever. Instead of realizing this imbalance and taking steps to correct it, our financial leaders reduced interest rates and encouraged further imbalance.
Decades of allowing our economy to be hollowed out and shipped to China are coming home to roost. Our financial geniuses have essentially brought down the world financial system by selling foreign countries mortgage-backed securities, collateralized debt obligations, and the like. That has been our contribution to the world for the last eight years.
2. The US auto makers have killed themselves by not offering superior line of vehicles across the spectrum.
Partially true. They lag in the subcompact and compact portion of the spectrum, but my experience tells me they do an absolutely awesome job in the full-size and truck portions and a pretty decent job in the midsize segment.
3. Cars have become to expensive...ALL manufacturers.
>that have missing parts, extra parts, parts that are not screwed/welded together,
That seems to beg the point. The article is about UAW being blamed for causing the problems of the automakers when it's the quality designed into the cars and the design and the engineering of said cars. It's the management of the auto companies have Congress-like perks and benefits.
I haven't had one car with an extra wheel, fender, windshield, bumper. All those parts have been assembled and work properly just like accords and camrys work.
It's silly to try to lambast the UAW for doing things poorly. If one wants to talk about being paid an extra 10% over the salary of a Georgetown toyota worker that can be meaningful. If one talks about nice benefits, that's meaningful. But there seems to be a pet project of blaming the UAW for poor assembly when it's the engineering by the auto company of the vehicle, such as door gaps mentioned in the past in this discussion. All of the focus on the part of some about the UAW's being the problem seems to fit the theme; blame someone rather than realize there may be a confluence of problems. I notice toyota has acres of cars stored at ports. I notice they've laid off all their parttime people but then have PR articles on television about how they're tried to keep their workers (full time, that is) working. All implying they are doing something special toward all their workers. In reality the parttimers are gone. They're not so happy, I'm sure. Or can we blame them for the acres of imported vehicles sitting at the docks?
who, like lemko, wants to buy Big 3, consider the 1-2 year old used car...by 2 years, the depreciation is at least 30-50%, so a 2 year old Impala that was $25K new is probably $12-15K...having the repair record may tell you if it is a UAW lemon or a (rare) UAW cream puff...if you take lemko shopping with you, you are GUARANTEED by Divine Law to find one that will last at least 20 years or more... :P ...
Which is why, despite all my ranting against UAW (remember, I do own a Ford Crown Vic and a Dodge Ram 1500), I am considering a 2 year old DTS (hence all the questions to lemko in the DTS and Lucerne topics... ...) or a 2-3 year old XJ8, which started at $60-70K and now goes for under $30K...
Used Toys and Hondas also depreciate, but not as much, it seems, like Big 3 iron...
So, while I wail at rocky and his galvanized unionized attitude, the cars I have bought since 1998 have all been supporting the UAW (Regal, Intrepid, Sable, Crown Vic and Ram)...
UAW president Walter Reuther (1907-70) who won womb-to-tomb health-care coverage and retirement benefits for the rank and file. Reuther was an early advocate of universal health-care coverage, which was not going to fly in Washington. So he willingly traded small pay raises for deferred compensation in the form of pensions and retirement health care. The Big Three gladly signed on because the trade-off held down cash wages — and because they were lushly profitable companies, controlling 90% of the U.S. car market. Executives never conceived of a day they might run out of money. One result, though, is that GM has paid out more than $100 billion in retiree and health-care costs over the past 15 years and is now facing $47 billion in future retiree health-care payments.
Well, they are out of money and I don't want to give them any of mine. I planned for my future and it did not include bailing out all those that did not save or worry about the future. I think that is kind of a universal feeling across this country with those that have lived within their means. Why should we be burdened with bailing out people that borrowed more than they could repay. Too bad they did away with debtors prison. Borrowing money and not paying it back is STEALING....
"I don't get you. For a guy who wails against the Big Three so much you still buy their cars? I thought you'd be the ultimate import fanboy"
Actually, I still believe that my Hondas were the best vehicles I ever owned, I would bet that current Hondas are even better still...
HOWEVER, after buying Hondas from 1985 and keeping them thru 1998 (Legend)and 2001 (Prelude w/4 wheel steering) respectively, and being more than satisfied with the cars and the dealerships' (3 of them, depending on where I lived) service, I honestly thought it was time to buy American and support the Big 3...
I guess I am a hypocrite FOR the Big 3 makers, as I WANT them to succeed and make better cars, but I have ALWAYS had my problems with the quality, work habits, and welfare attitude of the UAW...
I have posted numerous times the vehicles I have owned, this is not a revelation...I am still considering either a used DTS (GM) or used XJ8 (Ford-Jaguar, now TATA) for my next vehicle...maybe Lucerne...(and, if you have read my posts over the last few years, about 350 other models, too...:):):)... :confuse: :confuse: ...)
But I can still rail against the worthlessness of the UAW, as everything bad is, IMO, true...but I still gamble on Big 3 and hope that my cars last HALF, no, 1/3 as long as the mighty lemko...
".....Hopefully, you get it at half price to make up for the dep. hit! That'll keep you right-side-up for at least a year! "
I'll guaranty the depreciation will be better than it is on a 7 series Beemer. Besides, my wife will be due to replace the Rainier in about 3 years, so it will be around for about 8 before I even think of getting rid of it, so depreciation is a non issue.
BTW, it's not like I'm worried about either my wife OR I losing our jobs. We're union, and we're proven, and we'll have our jobs for a good long time.
If you take care of them and pay religious attention to fluid changes and such, I guarantee you they will last at least as long. Don't defer things until they become big expensive problems. I've been doing things the same way for over 25 years of driving and my cars reward me with long, trouble-free service. Choosing the proper dealer or independent mechanic is also important. Go over to the service area when selecting your new car and observe how things are going. If the guys ever remotely act like jerks, go elsewhere. A good independent mechanic is a priceless asset. I go to the same guy my girlfriend's father went for years for my two older cars. Great guy!
Cool thing about my DTS is that I get emails from GM detailing service intervals and early detection of trouble spots via OnStar.
Sheesh! I would like to get that 2010 LaCrosse for my girlfriend but her '05 is holding up so well, a new car would be a collossal waste, especially in this troubled economy. However, if nobody buys new cars, the economy will either get worse or remain stagnant. Classic catch-22!
I have always taken great care of my vehicles...3000 oil changes with dino oil, have moved to 5000 with synthetic...other fluid changes as required or sooner...
When they removed my valve covers on my Prelude at 165K to adjust the valves, it was as clean as the day ot was new...no gunk, no sludge, just sparkling metal...proved to me that changing oil is smartest thing you can do...
Of course, that won't help at all if the vehicle was poorly assembled by the UAW...:):):)... :sick: :lemon:
>"Are you talking about the VW Beetles with the "reliability" term? I recall people having to stop in the middle of long drives to adjust the valves. No heater: maybe that worked in TX and FL but not in OH and IN"
As I said, they were a simple car. Mine was a 49 model with the 2 piece windshield, small back window and 40 HP engine. Bought it used for $350 in the middle 60s. Not much more than an enclosed motorcycle with 4 wheels. I don't recall ever having to actually adjust the valves, but it did start running rough one time when it ran out of gas. But as it was sputtering and spitting I turned the "Reserve" gas handle and it continued on. I consider that to be my fault as I had motorcycles and knew to look into the tank occasionally. Easy to look into the Beetle tank. It had a large opening. Just look straight down into it and there was the gas.
I'm having trouble envisioning someone on the side of the road with the proper tools adjusting their valves, unless they were really anal about doing it at exactly the correct mileage. Most anyone with intelligence and the tools and ability would have done it before or after a trip. It's called planing ahead, just like checking the oil and gas levels.
"Well the tires are not quite worn out yet, but they will be while we are on the trip, so let's take them along with us and change them on the side of the road, at the right time"! "Oh, and take along the tools to adjust the valves at the 4000K mark." Really? :confuse:
I have, on occasion, been on the side of the road repairing under the car or under the hood of one of my UAW built cars. And there were times when I wasn't sure if they would get to the destination.
Point is that the VW was "AS" or "MORE" reliable as D3 cars of that time. And in spite of the non believers, a host of people liked the idea and driving experience of the smaller cars. By the mid 50s they were very popular, and by the 60s Beetles were everywhere.
D3 eventually made some half hearted attempts. That 100 HP Corvair Monza of mine was a joy to drive. But it spent a lot of time in the GM service dept. for various problems. It had a heater, but the engine misting oil traveled along with the heated air and continuesly caused the inside glass to need "de greasing".
Even if D3 couldn't understand the threat of the VW, they should have begun to take notice when the Japanese models began to take hold. But they didn't.
So the foreign companies have had many years perfecting small cars to American taste, and the D3 are going to have to find some way to build a better one, market it, and convince people to buy it in a very short time.
It may be sparkling metal but it's still got 165k of wear on it. Haven't you heard that "everything you thought you knew is wrong" Bob? link
"The United Automobile Workers union has taken a beating from radio hosts, Republican lawmakers and many members of the public for pushing for a bailout of American automakers.
As a result, the U.A.W. has quietly turned to other labor unions to help make the case for a bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, and to respond to charges that auto workers are pampered and overpaid and have gold-plated benefits."
Part of the reason that the VWs were reliable is that there wasn't much to break. And the heater in a VW was virtually worthless. The original VW Beetle is one of those cars improved by the rosy glow of nostalgia.
The engines did need more adjustments than the typical domestic car engine did, and was also more likely to wear out faster if driven regularly at freeway speeds. But they were very cheap and easy to replace.
The problem is that even with government aid, it is highly unlikely that GM and Chrysler will become viable companies. They need a top-to-bottom overhaul of the type that Ford is undergoing, and I just don't see it happening.
What is killing those companies is their corporate culture (of which the UAW is a part), and giving them federal funds only allows present management to keep doing what they have been doing, which isn't nearly enough to make these companies viable over the long haul.
That is why many of us are opposed to this bailout. It is literally throwing money away at this point. What GM, in particular, needs is new management and a thorough restructuring which will involve closing divisions, shedding models, factories and workers and forcing bondholders to take a haircut.
The federal government is highly unlikely to make that a condition of any federal aid, as it will end up goring too many constituencies (dealers, UAW, bondholders, etc.).
“New hires into U.A.W. jobs get paid exactly half of what people who’ve been there a while make,” Mr. Corker said. “That, by the contract they negotiated, is an admission that their wages were too high.”
Exactly. If a senior UAW worker is making $30/hr assembling a car, and someone walks in from the street and is willing to do that job for $15/hr then the job is worth $15/hr. If the person making $15/hr is worth $30/hr because they have a skill, why would they go to work for $15/hr? if they have a skill that's needed and important then they should be able to go down the street and get another $30/hr job, right?
said Leo W. Gerard, the steelworkers’ president. “One can’t let the auto industry die and think you’re going to revitalize manufacturing.
No one here wants the auto industry to die. But to get from the expensive inefficent D3 system we have today, we need to allow the corporations to die, and allow new owners and management systems to replace them some months later.
The UAW is fighting against this because they know the pay and pensions will be less. Heh, if I were in the UAW I would be fighting it and making all kinds of wild claims as to why the current system can not fail.
Ran a UAW shop 1973-1980 in Mighigan, made 20% profit...Family owned corporation also had operation in Wisconsin, and threw out the UAW in 1974..product line in my shop and the Wisc location was 100% automotive related..
The UAW is anti-management, and contributes nothing to the any organization..
Did you Asian car guys see where Toyota is hitting up the Japanese govt. for a bailout loan???????
My 2006 GPGT is fine and my new 09 Mustang Bullitt is loud, rough, and ready for good old fashion driving...Love it.
"It may be sparkling metal but it's still got 165k of wear on it"...well, of course...but I was referring back to my days of doing valve jobs in Dad's machine shop, where we would see cylinder heads of cars with only 15-50K miles, clumped with solid grease and sludge so bad that the valve springs almost would not move...all because they did not change their oil, just added a quart here or there...
The wear was there, but the abuse factor was absent...
As far as your link, notice they are recommending longer intervals than 3000 miles having nothing to do with the engine, but from the side of the disposal and landfills...while disposal and landfills are important, they have nothing to do with how often the engine needs fresh oil...
Also, even back in the 60s, the owners manuals stated 3000 miles for heavy duty uses, 6000-7500 for standard use...while it may seem counter-intuitive, and was never DEFINED in the owners manuals, those of us auto aficionados here at edmunds know that HD use is the stop and go of city running, whereas ordinary use is the constant 65 mph drone on the highway, which engines are designed to do all day without stopping...
So, Mr. Average, who is not an edmunds poster and therefore knows nothing about a car except where to put the ignition key, completely and totally misunderstands, think that HD use is highway running and ordinary use is city running...so, as his car lives in the stop-and-go city, he is beating his engine to death by changing oil at 7500 (assuming he did it on time, and not 10-12,000 miles), when he should have been doing it at 3000 because HE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE WORST ABUSE ON AN ENGINE IS THE STOP AND GO OF CITY RUNING, STARTING IT 12 TIMES DAILY BUT NEVER LETTING IT REACH OPERATING TEMPERATURE...something that none of us would ever do because we know better...
Now, with synthetic, my wife's stop and go hemi goes 5000 miles between changes, and my Crown Vic, heavy highway running, goes 7500 between changes...
We here, despite our differences on the UAW, at least know how to take care of the car (altho the poor quality workmanship of the UAW and their welfare entitlement attitude and ignorant, inefficient work rules which destroy productivity, still cause American buyers to seek out the imports for better quality in their cars...i had to get that in, you know... ...)
I guess you missed that CR study a decade ago where they compared oil in NYC cabs (HD service if ever there was any). No meaningful difference between 3 and 6k changes (link). I go 7,500 on my Nissan with dead dino and I'm at 131k. When it blows, I'll see if I can get the head to you so you can eat off of it.
At least two UAW unions rejected the contract this week, but it is likely to be approved.
Workers at Local 892 in Saline, Michigan, said "no" by a margin of 76 percent to 24 percent. Members in Lima, Ohio, also rejected the modifications.
Simple solution to that problem. Ship those jobs to Mexico or Brazil. In this automotive climate the company cannot take the chance of having uncooperative workers that may sabotage their fragile existence. With 8.1% of American workers out of a job I cannot imagine a problem finding UNSKILLED people to take those jobs at half the wage. The Auto industry has pandered to the UAW for 70 years giving them way more than they should have. Now when it is going for broke time the UAW workers are only thinking of themselves. No wonder the American public thinks the UAW is the cause of the auto industry failure. They show it with their current attitude. WalMart greeter is too good of a job for them.
When the economy in Alaska went in the toilet, the Unions had NO problem cutting wages by 25% to keep the jobs in the Union ranks. I remember cuts in the Teamsters, Culinary, IBEW and Operating Engineers. If the UAW leaders had used their heads when they watched GM bleeding 5 years ago they could have avoided this catastrophe.
Comments
The 150hp 2.0L Neon came out in '95, then the ACR package which was popular in the SCCA competition, as were the SE-Rs. I bought one shortly out of college. It performed well but was a crude beast, not nearly as refined as the Sentra SE-R or the Civic SI. Ford had the Mazda based Escort GT, but it was outgunned by the mid 90's and the Cavalier Z24 was ho hum overall. That market has kind of dried up and GM finally saves the best for last with the new Cobalt SS, great performing compact in a completely forgettable package.
"More lies you have been told and believed.
Flint Strikes Settled, But Issues Go Unresolved
The settlements contain concessions. The controversial "pegged rates," which allow a few hundred workers to stop work early if they meet their quotas, will be preserved, but the quotas are jacked-up 15 percent. This is a significant speed-up that will reduce any extra break time these heavy, dirty jobs might allow.
At the Delphi East plant the union agreed to continue working with the company to increase productivity"
The problem, gagrice, is that aside from whining that UAW floor sweepers deserve $35/hour, nothing stated seems to be true, at least contradicted by the cites you find (I wish I had your talent at finding those cites)...so, while growing up, he was brainwashed into the UAW mindset, and even he has no idea just how much featherbedded costs have been placed on the Big 3 over the last 40 years...if one could just open their eyes, they would understand why productivity and quality in the unionized Big 3 has down down the tubes...
Andm at Delphi east, rest assured that as long as the UAW exists, there will be NO productivity increases until the work rules are suspended forever...or else they too will go home after working an hour or two...
rock: your sense of reality even in your unionized mind is not even close to the excessive labor costs placed on the Big 3...I am ALMOST beginning to wonder if legacy costs are the true problem or simply cutting the current labor cost to the level of Honda might just solve the problem, meaning shedding 2/3 of the remaining workers and dumping all work rules except one: "Work where we tell you, without any restrictions, or someone else will"...
What the UAW did in the 30s and 40s was admirable...now they need to die...
C'mon....at least put a sarcasm emotorcon with the remark :confuse:
Get back to us after you've compared crime rates in the 1960s to crime rates in the 1950s (let alone the 1930s). The economy was booming in the 1960s...I keep hearing on this very site how they were the "good old days." Yet crime rates skyrocketed.
rockylee: Economy down, crime up?
Except that the article begins with this sentence: Even though there is no concrete data available to support it, Wilson Police Chief Harry Tyson believes the struggling economy could be a contributing factor in the increase in property crimes across the state and in Wilson.
Let's learn the difference between statistics and anecdotal evidence.
Your third site contains, at best, contradictory evidence, and notes that crime rates fell during the Great Depression. And the story from USA Today contains the heart-rending story of the man who is shoplifting...shrimp. I didn't realize that shrimp is a now a necessary part of one's diet.
One hopes he also shoplifted the appropriate sauce and spices to go with the shrimp, as plain shrimp is rather boring.
He may be overstating it, but from my experiences with those trucks, they did rot out fairly quickly up here. IIRC, Toyota used a 2 piece fender on the outer bed wall, and sealed it with some sort of silicone. The rust/rot would start at that seam and go from there. Now, mind you we are talking about a truck, and even replacing the entire bed is a fairly easy and inexpensive thing to do. Many around here in the '70's and '80's had mismatched colored beds.
So, are we to believe that lem's father shouldn't hold a grudge against Nissan for a substandard car built in 1974, yet others who got a substandard GM car in 1974 and haven't bought a GM car since SHOULD??
We still are the biggest automotive market in the world, though China is bumping up against us this year. We will eventually buy new cars again, although we're(my wife and I) not gonna budge and buy anything new or used for quite some time.
But these new technology cars have been more than just a passing interest to me for about the last year and a half. I would like to get my hands on an all-electric. The Volt is gonna have to almost perfect and perform like a champ and deliver in the mpg category. The public is not going to tolerate having to go back to the service center and eat raspberry gloppy donuts and drink burnt coffee. Time to put up, GM. How 'bout upping that Warranty to match Mitsubishi and HyunKia's fantastic Warranties.
Reading that article in the new Road and Track really conveyed the notion that Chev gets it, they are frying in the hot seat and fighting for their survival. And whatever other rigs they're working on, small or large, the 2010 Chevy Volt is the most important one on the docket for them. They have a lot of money riding on it and a lot of proving to the automotive world to do. That is the only GM product I am even remotely interested in now, too, fancy that.
Time to put your best UAW workers on this pup and produce a viable, affordable rig for the new world order masses.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Good point. The 70s were a low point for the industry. I wouldn't draw conclusions about any brand sold today, whether foreign or domestic, based on how bad it was 35 years ago.
First off, I pointed out that lemko likely was too young in the 70's to even have a driver's license. Thus his opinions are third person only: "I have an aunt with a third cousin who knew a mechanic who did not directly service Japanese cars, but his stepfather yada, yada, yada....."
Second, 1970 was in fact, nearly 40 years ago. The real point is: Which car companies solved their problems and greatly improved their products since then? GM or the Japanese? Who dominates the market today? You tell me.....
No question, the Japanese products of the 70s were not that good, but by the mid-80s they had paid attention and radically improved their product...heck, only 7-10 years ago, Hyundai was a joke from Korea, and now we have the Genesis...if the Big 3 had gone on an improvement program like that, we would not have Toyota and Honda now, as the Detroit car would be top notch...but, with the union, that is simply not meant to be so...
So, it is not about holding a grudge, but paying attention to the automakers who, not only screwed their buyers in the 70s and 80s, but CONTINUED to do so in the 90s and beyond...gagrice, while only one person, has spoken about his UAW made pickup that is junk from just a few years ago...
People are simply getting fed up with Detroit iron that just is NOT that good...folks who would never look at an import 10 years ago are now walking into Toy/Hon showrooms (well, maybe not right now, but in the last year or so before the trash hit the fan in September) because they have had it with Big 3 cars that do not compare in quality and reliability to the imports...
The biggest jump in American quality will come when they dump the UAW and bring in ALL new workers, folks who do not have union DNA in their system, folks who are simply glad to work for a days pay...training them will be easy, just a day or two...and the floor sweeper will simply be ecstatic to have group insurance as a benefit, because he never thought that he would as a floorsweeper...
People grateful for jobs will work hard to keep them...people who think the world OWES them a job ain't worth crap...time to dump the union, permanently...it has outlived its usefulness for the last 30 years or more...
First, we weren't comparing Datsuns and Toyotas to full-size Fords and Chevys in the 1970s. People weren't cross-shopping Chevrolet Impalas or Ford LTD Broughams with Toyota Coronas or Datsun 610s. We were comparing them to the Vega, Pinto and Gremlin, and the Japanese cars were FAR superior to their domestic competition.
Second, GM didn't stop building substandard cars in 1974. If anything, the company's downhill slide gathered momentum after the first fuel crunch, as it rushed jerry-rigged drivetrains into production to improve fuel economy. The company's quality is still relatively uneven (although getting better with each redesigned model).
Yep! That 454 is a hand full. The 45 Colt can also be hand loaded to some pretty serious ballistics. One of my older reloading manuals has a section for the 45 Colt, and a sub section for hotter 45 Colt rounds to only be used in Freedom Arms, and one of the Ruger models.
FWIW: Pretty sure you can shoot 45 Colt in the 454 Revolver, but not visa-versa. .
>"Here is the point. If the UAW would build a car like Freedom Arms builds a revolver we would not have this thread and GM would still be selling 50% of the cars in America."
I agree!
When the VW Beetle hit our shore they sold like hot cakes. They were a simple car with a 40 HP engine. Didn't even have a gas gauge. Instead, they had a lever on the fire wall that could be turned to "Reserve" if the thing ran out of gas.
The sheer number of VWs, that were being sold, should have been a red flag for the D3. But the only UAW competition for the Beetle was the Corvair, that didn't last very long. Fiat and Renault also had rear engine offerings here. They ran a bit stronger than the Beetle. But they were somewhat unreliable. More red flags. None of the offerings, including VW, got particularly great mileage. But people were buying reliability and the "Scoot Around" capability of the toy cars. Fiat and Renault went away, probably because of their un reliability problems.
Well... now we are in a new era. That of extreme "Green" and extreme MPG. D3 have the capabilities, but do they have the "will"? The Saturn Vue is a joke. The Volt is a much better "IDEA" but way to expensive. We need a "Plug In" electric 40 or 50 mile small commuter sedan or Hatchback in the $10k to $12k range.
Electric motors and controllers don't cost anywhere near what gas ones, with all the EPA stuff, do. The company that does this first is going to be in the cat bird seat for quite a while. And it may be a company that isn't even on the radar right now.
Down side to the "Plug In" might be if "Electricity cost Sky Rocket" as the president has promised. :sick:
Kip
You know, it's kind of comical, the D3 get hit in the face time and time again, and they just don't get it. VW, Honda, and Toyota have all smacked the D3 right in the face. Nissan and BMW as well. And now it's Kia and Hyundai taking their turns.
How many times do the D3 have to get hit in the face before they get it?
People want cheap reliable transportation that will hold its value better than its competition. R&R, is what it's all about, Resale and Reliability.
There was a time when the Rabbit Diesel PU was being built in PA, it was the highest US content PU truck you could buy. Did the UAW run VW out of business in 1988? Did the UAW queer the deal on building their new plant in Michigan? Was that why VW located in TN with their new plant? They may not want a repeat of their UAW dealings.
But the UAW has a history with Volkswagen. The automaker's first U.S. factory, located in New Stanton, Penn., was also the first foreign-owned auto plant to be organized by UAW. The plant closed in 1988 after a 10-year run.
Are you talking about the VW Beetles with the "reliability" term? I recall people having to stop in the middle of long drives to adjust the valves. No heater: maybe that worked in TX and FL but not in OH and IN
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe because it was screwed together by German union workers?
Chrysler hit everyone in the head with the Caravan in '84, and the other D2 followed suit, as did the foreign manufacturers. But you can't do a fresh design/build like that in a couple of months, so Chrysler had a two year long gravy train.
Any other UAW news today?
UAW always blamed
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Aside from lemko, many here have posted of UAW cars they bought that were poorly put together or fell apart or needed constant repairs, and much of that fault lies with the UAW...
The Time article must have been written by Gettlefinger himself, or his brother in law...
The way I see it ALL cars have become too expensive for the avg worker here or abroad! Although there are many who can afford the current prices, the "bread & butter" sector cannot! That is why people are flocking to used cars.
I conclude 3 simple "truths": 1. The UAW has killed the US automakers. 2. The US auto makers have killed themselves by not offering superior line of vehicles acrooss the spectrum. 3. Cars have become to expensive...ALL manufacturers.
Well I'm sure those tied to the industry will refute everything I stated, but that's OK...your a victim of the auto industry culture. And no I'm not jealous of what they pay them....I make more...I'm skilled & I have a BS degree!
The United States decided to outsource manufacturing jobs because we were going to do the thinking for the world. The country decided to take the easy path of financial engineering, rather than the hard path of creating products that other countries would buy.
The trade deficit reached $677 billion in 2008. Borrowing from the Chinese and Japanese to buy stuff produced by China and Japan could not go on forever. Instead of realizing this imbalance and taking steps to correct it, our financial leaders reduced interest rates and encouraged further imbalance.
Decades of allowing our economy to be hollowed out and shipped to China are coming home to roost. Our financial geniuses have essentially brought down the world financial system by selling foreign countries mortgage-backed securities, collateralized debt obligations, and the like. That has been our contribution to the world for the last eight years.
1. The UAW has killed the US automakers
False.
2. The US auto makers have killed themselves by not offering superior line of vehicles across the spectrum.
Partially true. They lag in the subcompact and compact portion of the spectrum, but my experience tells me they do an absolutely awesome job in the full-size and truck portions and a pretty decent job in the midsize segment.
3. Cars have become to expensive...ALL manufacturers.
Absolutely true!
That seems to beg the point. The article is about UAW being blamed for causing the problems of the automakers when it's the quality designed into the cars and the design and the engineering of said cars. It's the management of the auto companies have Congress-like perks and benefits.
I haven't had one car with an extra wheel, fender, windshield, bumper. All those parts have been assembled and work properly just like accords and camrys work.
It's silly to try to lambast the UAW for doing things poorly. If one wants to talk about being paid an extra 10% over the salary of a Georgetown toyota worker that can be meaningful. If one talks about nice benefits, that's meaningful. But there seems to be a pet project of blaming the UAW for poor assembly when it's the engineering by the auto company of the vehicle, such as door gaps mentioned in the past in this discussion. All of the focus on the part of some about the UAW's being the problem seems to fit the theme; blame someone rather than realize there may be a confluence of problems. I notice toyota has acres of cars stored at ports. I notice they've laid off all their parttime people but then have PR articles on television about how they're tried to keep their workers (full time, that is) working. All implying they are doing something special toward all their workers. In reality the parttimers are gone. They're not so happy, I'm sure. Or can we blame them for the acres of imported vehicles sitting at the docks?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Which is why, despite all my ranting against UAW (remember, I do own a Ford Crown Vic and a Dodge Ram 1500), I am considering a 2 year old DTS (hence all the questions to lemko in the DTS and Lucerne topics...
Used Toys and Hondas also depreciate, but not as much, it seems, like Big 3 iron...
So, while I wail at rocky and his galvanized unionized attitude, the cars I have bought since 1998 have all been supporting the UAW (Regal, Intrepid, Sable, Crown Vic and Ram)...
Seemed to have worked for my girlfriend! She bought her Impala and LaCrosse with me present and both cars have been absolutely trouble-free!
I don't get you. For a guy who wails against the Big Three so much you still buy their cars? I thought you'd be the ultimate import fanboy. :confuse:
I don't find anything on Google. I'm probably not using the right combination to search.
Now why would they want an inside meeting with the White House folks...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
UAW president Walter Reuther (1907-70) who won womb-to-tomb health-care coverage and retirement benefits for the rank and file. Reuther was an early advocate of universal health-care coverage, which was not going to fly in Washington. So he willingly traded small pay raises for deferred compensation in the form of pensions and retirement health care. The Big Three gladly signed on because the trade-off held down cash wages — and because they were lushly profitable companies, controlling 90% of the U.S. car market. Executives never conceived of a day they might run out of money. One result, though, is that GM has paid out more than $100 billion in retiree and health-care costs over the past 15 years and is now facing $47 billion in future retiree health-care payments.
Well, they are out of money and I don't want to give them any of mine. I planned for my future and it did not include bailing out all those that did not save or worry about the future. I think that is kind of a universal feeling across this country with those that have lived within their means. Why should we be burdened with bailing out people that borrowed more than they could repay. Too bad they did away with debtors prison. Borrowing money and not paying it back is STEALING....
Actually, I still believe that my Hondas were the best vehicles I ever owned, I would bet that current Hondas are even better still...
HOWEVER, after buying Hondas from 1985 and keeping them thru 1998 (Legend)and 2001 (Prelude w/4 wheel steering) respectively, and being more than satisfied with the cars and the dealerships' (3 of them, depending on where I lived) service, I honestly thought it was time to buy American and support the Big 3...
I guess I am a hypocrite FOR the Big 3 makers, as I WANT them to succeed and make better cars, but I have ALWAYS had my problems with the quality, work habits, and welfare attitude of the UAW...
I have posted numerous times the vehicles I have owned, this is not a revelation...I am still considering either a used DTS (GM) or used XJ8 (Ford-Jaguar, now TATA) for my next vehicle...maybe Lucerne...(and, if you have read my posts over the last few years, about 350 other models, too...:):):)... :confuse: :confuse: ...)
But I can still rail against the worthlessness of the UAW, as everything bad is, IMO, true...but I still gamble on Big 3 and hope that my cars last HALF, no, 1/3 as long as the mighty lemko...
Regards,
OW
I'll guaranty the depreciation will be better than it is on a 7 series Beemer. Besides, my wife will be due to replace the Rainier in about 3 years, so it will be around for about 8 before I even think of getting rid of it, so depreciation is a non issue.
BTW, it's not like I'm worried about either my wife OR I losing our jobs. We're union, and we're proven, and we'll have our jobs for a good long time.
Cool thing about my DTS is that I get emails from GM detailing service intervals and early detection of trouble spots via OnStar.
When they removed my valve covers on my Prelude at 165K to adjust the valves, it was as clean as the day ot was new...no gunk, no sludge, just sparkling metal...proved to me that changing oil is smartest thing you can do...
Of course, that won't help at all if the vehicle was poorly assembled by the UAW...:):):)... :sick: :lemon:
As I said, they were a simple car. Mine was a 49 model with the 2 piece windshield, small back window and 40 HP engine. Bought it used for $350 in the middle 60s.
Not much more than an enclosed motorcycle with 4 wheels. I don't recall ever having to actually adjust the valves, but it did start running rough one time when it ran out of gas. But as it was sputtering and spitting I turned the "Reserve" gas handle and it continued on. I consider that to be my fault as I had motorcycles and knew to look into the tank occasionally. Easy to look into the Beetle tank. It had a large opening. Just look straight down into it and there was the gas.
I'm having trouble envisioning someone on the side of the road with the proper tools adjusting their valves, unless they were really anal about doing it at exactly the correct mileage. Most anyone with intelligence and the tools and ability would have done it before or after a trip. It's called planing ahead, just like checking the oil and gas levels.
"Well the tires are not quite worn out yet, but they will be while we are on the trip, so let's take them along with us and change them on the side of the road, at the right time"! "Oh, and take along the tools to adjust the valves at the 4000K mark." Really? :confuse:
I have, on occasion, been on the side of the road repairing under the car or under the hood of one of my UAW built cars. And there were times when I wasn't sure if they would get to the destination.
Point is that the VW was "AS" or "MORE" reliable as D3 cars of that time. And in spite of the non believers, a host of people liked the idea and driving experience of the smaller cars. By the mid 50s they were very popular, and by the 60s Beetles were everywhere.
D3 eventually made some half hearted attempts. That 100 HP Corvair Monza of mine was a joy to drive. But it spent a lot of time in the GM service dept. for various problems. It had a heater, but the engine misting oil traveled along with the heated air and continuesly caused the inside glass to need "de greasing".
Even if D3 couldn't understand the threat of the VW, they should have begun to take notice when the Japanese models began to take hold. But they didn't.
So the foreign companies have had many years perfecting small cars to American taste, and the D3 are going to have to find some way to build a better one, market it, and convince people to buy it in a very short time.
Kip
"The United Automobile Workers union has taken a beating from radio hosts, Republican lawmakers and many members of the public for pushing for a bailout of American automakers.
As a result, the U.A.W. has quietly turned to other labor unions to help make the case for a bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, and to respond to charges that auto workers are pampered and overpaid and have gold-plated benefits."
Humbled, the U.A.W. Is Appealing for Support (NY Times)
The engines did need more adjustments than the typical domestic car engine did, and was also more likely to wear out faster if driven regularly at freeway speeds. But they were very cheap and easy to replace.
What is killing those companies is their corporate culture (of which the UAW is a part), and giving them federal funds only allows present management to keep doing what they have been doing, which isn't nearly enough to make these companies viable over the long haul.
That is why many of us are opposed to this bailout. It is literally throwing money away at this point. What GM, in particular, needs is new management and a thorough restructuring which will involve closing divisions, shedding models, factories and workers and forcing bondholders to take a haircut.
The federal government is highly unlikely to make that a condition of any federal aid, as it will end up goring too many constituencies (dealers, UAW, bondholders, etc.).
Exactly. If a senior UAW worker is making $30/hr assembling a car, and someone walks in from the street and is willing to do that job for $15/hr then the job is worth $15/hr.
If the person making $15/hr is worth $30/hr because they have a skill, why would they go to work for $15/hr? if they have a skill that's needed and important then they should be able to go down the street and get another $30/hr job, right?
said Leo W. Gerard, the steelworkers’ president. “One can’t let the auto industry die and think you’re going to revitalize manufacturing.
No one here wants the auto industry to die. But to get from the expensive inefficent D3 system we have today, we need to allow the corporations to die, and allow new owners and management systems to replace them some months later.
The UAW is fighting against this because they know the pay and pensions will be less. Heh, if I were in the UAW I would be fighting it and making all kinds of wild claims as to why the current system can not fail.
GM's Opel: "Insolvency" Could Be An Option, German Official Says (AutoObserver)
The UAW is anti-management, and contributes nothing to the any organization..
Did you Asian car guys see where Toyota is hitting up the Japanese govt. for a bailout loan???????
My 2006 GPGT is fine and my new 09 Mustang Bullitt is loud, rough, and ready for good old fashion driving...Love it.
The wear was there, but the abuse factor was absent...
As far as your link, notice they are recommending longer intervals than 3000 miles having nothing to do with the engine, but from the side of the disposal and landfills...while disposal and landfills are important, they have nothing to do with how often the engine needs fresh oil...
Also, even back in the 60s, the owners manuals stated 3000 miles for heavy duty uses, 6000-7500 for standard use...while it may seem counter-intuitive, and was never DEFINED in the owners manuals, those of us auto aficionados here at edmunds know that HD use is the stop and go of city running, whereas ordinary use is the constant 65 mph drone on the highway, which engines are designed to do all day without stopping...
So, Mr. Average, who is not an edmunds poster and therefore knows nothing about a car except where to put the ignition key, completely and totally misunderstands, think that HD use is highway running and ordinary use is city running...so, as his car lives in the stop-and-go city, he is beating his engine to death by changing oil at 7500 (assuming he did it on time, and not 10-12,000 miles), when he should have been doing it at 3000 because HE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE WORST ABUSE ON AN ENGINE IS THE STOP AND GO OF CITY RUNING, STARTING IT 12 TIMES DAILY BUT NEVER LETTING IT REACH OPERATING TEMPERATURE...something that none of us would ever do because we know better...
Now, with synthetic, my wife's stop and go hemi goes 5000 miles between changes, and my Crown Vic, heavy highway running, goes 7500 between changes...
We here, despite our differences on the UAW, at least know how to take care of the car (altho the poor quality workmanship of the UAW and their welfare entitlement attitude and ignorant, inefficient work rules which destroy productivity, still cause American buyers to seek out the imports for better quality in their cars...i had to get that in, you know...
Btw, I'm shopping car insurance so look for me over in Questions About Auto Insurance & Accidents soon.
In UAW news, it sounds like the Ford contract is going to be approved. Ford UAW workers to complete contract vote Monday Business Week
Workers at Local 892 in Saline, Michigan, said "no" by a margin of 76 percent to 24 percent. Members in Lima, Ohio, also rejected the modifications.
Simple solution to that problem. Ship those jobs to Mexico or Brazil. In this automotive climate the company cannot take the chance of having uncooperative workers that may sabotage their fragile existence. With 8.1% of American workers out of a job I cannot imagine a problem finding UNSKILLED people to take those jobs at half the wage. The Auto industry has pandered to the UAW for 70 years giving them way more than they should have. Now when it is going for broke time the UAW workers are only thinking of themselves. No wonder the American public thinks the UAW is the cause of the auto industry failure. They show it with their current attitude. WalMart greeter is too good of a job for them.
When the economy in Alaska went in the toilet, the Unions had NO problem cutting wages by 25% to keep the jobs in the Union ranks. I remember cuts in the Teamsters, Culinary, IBEW and Operating Engineers. If the UAW leaders had used their heads when they watched GM bleeding 5 years ago they could have avoided this catastrophe.