MI has come up with the idea that RAISING taxes on their remaining businesses is the answer to the budget shortfalls created by the unfriendly business climate the left-wing democratic politicians fostered. That way they'll have more money to spend on all the advertising campaigns trying to encourage new businesses to come to the state and try to deal with entitlement-minded workers, their unions and the crooked politicians who are in the pocket of organized labor. Lotsa luck with that one.
"No candidate would be allowed to be a viable candidate unless he meets the approval of corporate interests."
That may be true, but there's an equal push by the Left to encourage illegals to come here to undermine wages so that there will be more disaffected workers, illegal and native-born, so that they can exploit them for their votes (via amnesty or lack of oversight on voter registrations) purchased with handouts of other peoples' money.
Is it really "the left" who profits from this, who seeks the destruction of western world wage structures for the benefit of globalization and corporate control of world affairs?
I'd say both sides gain from the mismanagement of immigration policy. Cheap labor and destruction of living wage standards for one, social attention for the other. Crying about "the left" is nice, but the neocon right is far from innocent or ethical.
That is what they did in the 1980s, and continue to do so today...how ANY state can raise business taxes and expect new business to come there is worse than naive, it is plum stupid...
They are simply incapable of waking up until they are near death...they raise taxes so businesses have to pay more to be there, and then workers have been union-spoiled for so long they think it is their divine right to get $30/hour to sweep the floor or stock the shelves...reality hits with each wave of layoffs, but they still don't get it...they sit there wondering why companies don't line up to come to Michigan, and Michiganders themselves live in a dream world...
They have nothing to offer an employer except cold weather and snow...their trained work force can be trained in Alabama or Tenn to do the same work at half the price, where the attitude is that they are grateful to have a job rather than look for the location of the "Job Bank"...
Detroit was so crooked in the 1980s, and it has only become 100X worse since I left in 1990 (not because of me)...taxes on a $60K house are $3,000, and for that you get unionized city workers who do not work...
The UAW is dying a slow death, probably for the betterment of society...the Big 3, however, will probably survive when they move all their plants down south after declaring Chapter 11, voiding all contracts, and start anew with people who want to work, people who are garteful for a job instead of demanding they be treated like princes...
It will be painful because something we have seen for 75 years is about to die, and nobody wants change...but the death of the union is the only solution, and then re-stocking with new workers will be the answer...clean sweep...like the college football team whose entire star lineup are seniors...one day they graduate and the new team is all freshmen...they do not act as a team, but, over time, they do...
The only benefit to seniority will be to place them at the head of the line in thre cafeteria...
Oh, don't forget to throw out rotten management, too...
Don't forget idiots like Roger Smith! I should live a really evil lifestyle just so I can go to hell where I can find him and kick his butt for eternity for what he did to my beloved GM!
Now your talking! You see, I felt the same way as you over the years and now will never be loyal to GM by blindly going back for more torture with lackluster products and service.
Rotten business models are subject to change like everything else. In GM's case, the pain will be more pronounced even until death of a once great company because change was not embraced along the way many years ago.
GM will change forever. Now the pace is accelerating faster than a Chinese auto startup!
Now your talking! You see, I felt the same way as you over the years and now will never be loyal to GM by blindly going back for more torture with lackluster products and service.
I think you will find that Toyota has caught up to GM in lackluster products and surpassed them in poor service. Overall my 07 Sequoia is better than my 05 GMC PU truck. While the service at Toyota was friendly, it was much more expensive than GMC service. Neither was able to solve problems with the vehicle. Ironically they are across the street from each other. GMC sent me a coupon for free service each time it was due. Toyota charged $63 for the 5000 mile oil change. Used cheap 30 weight oil. Did not fix the problems with the Sequoia. I think the newer model of the Sequoia is not up to the old one build, fit and finish wise. Doors do not feel as solid. More like a new GM SUV.
Interesting that you would mention Roger Smith...he could have been one of my heroes, for back in 1984, when UAW contract negotiations were coming up, GM had just had their first losing year in about 75 years...the union struck GM and, had Roger Smith stood firm, with the strike fund paying workers $65 weekly, he could have broken and killed the union in about 3 months, and the then Ford and Chrysler could have followed suit...he could have been my hero...
Instead, Smith capitulated in 6 weeks, giving up the only chance to destroy the union...until now, of course...
This may sound odd, but I think it would take a number of years of Toy/Hon screwups before they were in trouble...first, the alternative, for those who have abandoned American cars, is...American cars...and it will be some time, IMO, before the improved Fords and GMs are actually considered as alternatives to the imports...
It took years of junk before they abandoned Big 3 cars...not only will Big 3 need superb quality to attempt to lure them back, but they have to experience sufficient trouble with the Toy/Hon to actually consioder abandoning them and come back to Big 3...
>before the improved Fords and GMs are actually considered as alternatives to the imports
It'll help, too, if people keep saying how they hate GM cars and the unions because they had a 197X car that didn't last; that way people won't look to reality of the newer cars or that there were cars within the model mix that have given and give good service today. It's sort of like continually reminding people about the Toyota motors out there with sludging problems so that they perceive that all Toyotas have sludge.
that way people won't look to reality of the newer cars or that there were cars within the model mix that have given and give good service today.
Reality is what people perceive is true. Simple as that. One person can not try all GM vehicles or make a statistical analysis of the probability they will get junk. When they experience problems (or perceive there are many problems), depending on their propensity of pain, sooner or later they switch brands. Add to that the brilliant strategy of weighting production and inventory with less than stellar efficient vehicles, and you draw blood. Big blood!
Toyota is not immune but way more flexible and higher quality as perceptions go.
Marsha7 - unfortunately, your assessment of SE Michigan mirrors my own experience. I have lived in seven different states, and Michigan is by far the most "entitlement driven" that I have seen. Many people here don't seem to understand that in the rest of the country, middle class does not equate to having a second house Up-north, a boat in the marina, snowmobiles for winter, a new car every other year, and a Harley or two for the summer days. Oh, by the way, they don't want to pay (or even co-pay) for medical, dental, or other benefits.
I don't personally have problems with unions themselves, but I do have an issue when either a union or the people in that union that refuse to accept the current situation and be willing to change. The attitude of "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too" is so prevalent in this state.
Still, Michigan does have a lot to offer, and it does have a skilled workforce - now if they can just change the attitude..
While your definition is correct in the abstract, for each person's experience THEIR PERCEPTION IS THEIR REALITY...it does not matter how many JD Power awards GM gets, if they had a lemon (or multiple lemons) with a poorly fitting car, rattles that the dealer could not fix, a radio that never worked, and an A/C that did not cool, for that buyer, the reality (for them) is that Company X makes junk...
If we were talking bubble gum at 5 cents each, one could afford to try 10 different brands before settling on one favorite...but when you spend thousands of $$$ on a Big 3 piece of junk, and then if your import experience is one of high quality, the NEW reality is that import cars are better...that is why the Big 3 have an uphill battle, they not only must make their cars good, they must make them GREAT, because it is 4th down and they are behind by 2 touchdowns with a minute to go...whether that buyer blames the union, management, dealers does not matter...if they refuse to buy another product from, say, GM, then GM has much work to do to bring them back, because their past bad behavior has alienated that car buyer, and THAT is reality, regardless of any dictionary definition...
pmom: "Oh, by the way, they don't want to pay (or even co-pay) for medical, dental, or other benefits."...that is another stupid demand of the UAW, that they pay nothing for their benefits...many company plans have deductibles of $500 or $1000...it is time the union workers joined the rest of us and paid a premium for their benefits and paid some of the freight in the actual cost...
Don't worry, tho...as long as they maintain their ridiculous demands, the automakers may capitulate to the actual demand, but then dump 50,000 workers to have the additional funds to pay...so, will the last UAW worker have fully paid health care???...yes, he will be the only one...
Maybe you believe that SE Michigan (Downriver) has skilled workers to offer...skilled trades, yes...but now you have to find someone who is actually stupid enough, after 50 years of union militancy amd welfare entitlement attitude, to actually want to set up shop in a war zone...that answer is a resounding NO!!!...if the worker wants a job commeasurate with their skills, they will have to go to the job, as the job will never come to Michigan...and, when they fill out a job app, they had better hide their UAW experience, as any employer with half a brain will NOT want to untrain that entitlement attitude that is now embedded in their DNA (" "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too"...those days are over)...the State of Michigan was the big wheel for a half century or more, but it is now a part of history...there is NOTHING that Michigan offers that will ever bring an employer up there, that cannot be obtained elsewhere...
Sorry to be so direct, but tell me anything offered by Michigan that would draw an employer away from ANYPLACE else...higher taxes???...crime???...entitlement attitude of everyone on the street???...Job Bank, getting paid by a company to sit on your a**, remember, they thought they were entitled to it...just how do you intend to get any of them up off their duff to actually work, when the work "strike" is also in their DNA???...
Aside from tourism in the upper state, as far as industry goes, Michigan has NOTHING to offer anybody who wants to set up a PROFITABLE company...period...
pmom: "Oh, by the way, they don't want to pay (or even co-pay) for medical, dental, or other benefits."...that is another stupid demand of the UAW, that they pay nothing for their benefits...many company plans have deductibles of $500 or $1000...it is time the union workers joined the rest of us and paid a premium for their benefits and paid some of the freight in the actual cost...
Marsha7, your rants are so out of date they are spoiled. You have nary a clue what current UAW workers pay. The people you talk about have retired and this new generation of UAW folks well are well SOL. On another note I would love to see the Volkswagon plant located here. I lreally like the VW Passat's. What car is going to be made in that plant ????
for years they only paid about a $100 Ded while everyone else was much more than that...and they howled to the moon when they actually had some paycheck reductions to pay for a TINY portion of the premium...
Care to bet 25 cents that the VW plant never sees Michigan soil or within 200 miles of it???????????????????????????????????
for years they only paid about a $100 Ded while everyone else was much more than that
That's totally different than saying "They pay nothing for their benefits".
What deductible are you referring to anyway - a doctor's office visit, an eye exam, a regular dental checkup? I pay a deductible for all of these.
An electrician co-worker hopes the VW plant ends up in Alabama. His permanent home is there and the plant location would be within daily driving distance.
He seems to be a jinx wherever he goes. He was at the Chrysler Huntsville, AL parts plant when they closed it. Now he's at the St. Louis assembly minivan plant, which is getting ready to be mothballed at the end of October.
It'll help, too, if people keep saying how they hate GM cars and the unions because they had a 197X car that didn't last; that way people won't look to reality of the newer cars or that there were cars within the model mix that have given and give good service today. It's sort of like continually reminding people about the Toyota motors out there with sludging problems so that they perceive that all Toyotas have sludge.
I agree, but it's not that simple. First, the Toy sludge and Hon transmission troubles were not particularly widespread. Honda was very helpful in rectifying the problem; I don't know if that's true of the Toy sludge issues. So while those were black marks, they weren't THAT bad compared with far worse problems with big 3 iron. Big 3 iron has also had 20-30 years of major issues, which is a much longer track record. My college carpooler saved his $4K from McDonald's and bought a brand new Vega that rusted and then the engine corroded by 50K miles, while I kept driving a 66VW bug. My brother bought a 1995 Windstar that had transmission and engine problems, both well under 50K miles. Those things stick with you.
While GM has had some very reliable cars, you have to look at what people want:
1 - Is it reliable? 2 - Is it refined? Does the engine sound good? Do the doors shut solidly? 3 - Is the interior pleasant and attractive? Are the ergonomics good? Are parts of high quality, or do they quickly break?
The problem is that even when GM has gotten #1 right, often #2 and/or #3 has been lacking. It's not JUST reliability, it's not JUST refinement, and it's not JUST interior quality. Sure, you could have a reliable Buick in the 1990's, but what did the inside look like? That's why the new Malibu, for example, is such a welcome sign. But it sure is late....
The odds on Michigan getting the plant are about 1000 to one. They already said they got treated poorly in the past by the state. Here is the latest and Alabama looks to be the front runner.
FRANKFURT, July 5 (Reuters) - The U.S. State of Alabama will be the likely home of a new Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) manufacturing plant, beating two other states, German industry newsletter Automobilwoche said on Saturday, citing senior company sources.
A VW spokesman said that a decision on the location of the plant had yet to be taken and that Alabama, Tennessee and Michigan remained in the running. A decision is expected by July 21, the spokesman said.
Daimler's (DAIGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) Mercedes Car Group has had a manufacturing plant in Alabama for years and ThyssenKrupp (TKAG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), an important supplier of automotive steel, is also opening a production facility in the state. (Reporting by Jonathan Gould and Frank Siebelt, Editing by Peter Blackburn)
Not mine! In my reality, Toyota is tedious, dull, boring crap for the emasculated guy who surrendered his manhood to his wife a long time ago. You'd have to be a eunuch, have a lobotomy, and have sold your soul to the demon of boredom to drive a Camry.
In 1982, I bought a '79 Pontiac Sunbird that had only 11K miles on it. Took it to college, where I had a number of problems with it. After college, I bought an '85 Accord and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in it for 3 years.
I figured I was gonna be a foreign car guy for life.
Well, when I met my current wife, she was a Ford girl and we went through 4 of them in 10 years (Escort, Expedition, Explorer and Focus - all leased except the Focus). Not one major mechanical problem on any of them.
My family now drives Saturns (VUE, ION and 2 L-series) - the L-series have had some issues, but, in my opinion, the products from the US manufacturers is just as good as what you can get from Japan (or Korea, or Sweden, or Germany).
>My college carpooler saved his $4K from McDonald's and bought a brand new Vega that rusted and then the engine corroded by 50K miles, while I kept driving a 66VW bug.
How did his replacement Honda or Datsun or Toyota or Fiat or Opel go without rusting in those years? While Vegas had higher than usual problems compared to the standard, quality American cars of those years, was it due to a different steel formulation? I'm sure someone will know. I reaching but I think I read that they were trying to be innovative and have cost cutting, but it didn't work out. Same for the motors that were susceptible to overheating if people let the coolant drop and the cylinder wall was innovative technology and easily damaged; did your friend keep the coolant level up?
A difference between the keeping of reputation with many of the owners is that Honda replaced transmissions free, even after warranty. But I would have expected lifetime replacements rather than just up to 100,000 miles under extended warranty which Honda chose to do. Some people consider failed transmission as having had no problems because the replacement was free. Having the money to pay for errors mitigates bad attitude on the part of buyers.
A friend just bought a Passat after having many problems with a Jetta a few years earlier. Oh, did I mention they bought a green bug a year ago because his wife had had one earlier in her life? I'm going to remind him to watch the oil used in the Passat because of the sludging problems some VWs have had.
As for the money GM spends (spent) too much on management and spent too much on worker salaries, healthcare, and luxurious retirements because of the unions through the decades and couldn't afford to be generous with replacements as can the imports with new plants, younger workers, and lots of temps.
>had 20-30 years of major issues,
That would be 1980. Try a 1980 Cutlass Supreme. Replaced a 1977 Cutlass Supreme. No problems out of normal replacements; gas and go.
1981 Buick Skylark X car FWD. No problems. Replaced with 1985 Skyhawk as second car with a wunderbar 1.8 motor with OHC.
Then a 1987 Century, and 1989 Century, and 1993 LeSabre, and 1998 LeSabre and 2003 LeSabre. Have the last two in my garage. Darn things don't last! 160,000 miles on 1998. Just had a seep of gasoline where winter salt has severly corroded the line where it's clipped to a nylon gas line. I'm sure a Honda would never have had corrosion problems, though. I feel the switch to using lots of liquid brine on roads in advance of a snow rather than crystalline salt as snow starts is causing addition corrosion on cars in the wintery north. But I think I'll blame the corrosion on the UAW guys who built the fuel line at whatever plant the contract went to. Oh wait, maybe they weren't union. Maybe it was a plant in Alabama or Georgia.
Perhaps I chose cars wisely when I chose and cared for them much like some care for their foreign cars--as we should. I can show examples of people's not having taken care of cars of all flavors. A neighbor just worked on a mid 90s Camry which had not been taken care of and has a leaking head gasket or cracked block.
Hey, I would not buy one either but wow! There are a lot of folks who want boring, reliable transportation. If you skip reliable, you're buying US junk.
In 1982, I bought a '79 Pontiac Sunbird that had only 11K miles on it. Took it to college, where I had a number of problems with it. After college, I bought an '85 Accord and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in it for 3 years.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I bought a new 1978 Honda Accord. It had overheating problems from the start. It finally caused the engine to throw a rod at about 60k miles. It had to be the WORST car I ever owned. I was in a bind with a 75 mile each way commute and there was a one year waiting list on a VW diesel. That was the last Honda for me. I should have stuck with a domestic PU truck and paid the extra gas. It would have been cheaper in the long run and better resale. When I traded the Accord on an Escort in 1984 it was worth $ZERO$.
Reliable and Buick are synonymous! How is it I'm still driving my 1988 Buick Park Avenue every day if it isn't reliable? Gee, what happened to all those 1988 Honda Accords with the pop-up lights that were once commonplace? There are still PLENTY of 1985-90 vintage Buick LeSabres, Electras, and Park Avenues still around. I can't go for one block without at least seeing one. I doubt they all just magically migrated to Philly. My 1989 Cadillac Brougham is still here with 157K miles on it and it still looks, runs, and even smells like a new car. My 1968 Buick Special Deluxe lasted 24 years and under adverse conditions. My 1979 Buick Park Ave saved my life in a nasty accident almost 20 years ago.
Geeze, funny how I still see so much 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s Detroit iron. What happened to all those super-reliable Japanese cars? Oh, yeah, they collapsed into piles of iron oxide dust 10-20 years ago.
Probably the only Japanese cars that would hold up for the long haul is the early Lexus LS400. Ours is in wonderful condition. It was bought new in 1989 and always garaged. Already passed 94k miles :shades:
I am glad you keep buying new GM cars. It gives the UAW guys some hope for the future. If they did not build them so well they would not be working themselves out of a job. I still see many, many 1980 vintage Chevy PU trucks running around. My favorite years was 1988 to 1998. I still think they are the best looking trucks EVER built. Can't say much for any new truck domestic or foreign. They are ALL ugly to me. I should have never sold my 1998 Suburban. A wonderful vehicle.
I dunno. I think the new Silverado is just about the most-attractive truck out there and I kind of like the tough macho look of the Ford Super Duty. I really have no use for either and am not into the trucks as an image thing.
I'm very happy with my new Cadillac DTS Performance and girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse keeps going on without any trouble.
Where? Southern California maybe? They disappeared a long time ago in Philly. I still see some of the 1993-94 Accords, but the ones with the pop-up lights are extinct. An Acura Legend of that vintage is even more scarce.
Reliable and Buick are synonymous! How is it I'm still driving my 1988 Buick Park Avenue every day if it isn't reliable?
Beats me. My dad had a 2000 Park Ave that was completely junk. Head gaskets, intake manifold, major oil leaks, and every electrical gremlin you can imagine all by 80k miles. Maybe 2000 was a bad year for GM, because my 2000 Suburban was a major POS too. I don't know how anyone can appreciate a late 80's to early 90's GM products. Yuck, whether they are reliable or not. I still remember my grandpa's 92 RoadMaster. That thing was horrible to drive, overboosted numb steering, nearly non existant brakes. It was slow and a gas pig unless you really babied it. That TBI 350 sounded and felt like a truck engine, oh yeah, it was.
My dad has had good luck with his Fords. His '92 CrownVic went 230k until it was essentially all used up. He replaced that with a '00 Taurus that he has close to 170k on it. He did have to replace the radiator at 160k.
We'll see I replaced my Suburban with an 07 Expedition EB. I like it a lot better than the 07-08 Suburban/Yukon's I compared it to. Tows my boat much better than the Suburban. I test drove several used 07-08 Suburban, Yukon Denali's and felt like they were still the junk I was already driving. I drove an 08 Denali with 6k miles on it and an 07 Yukon XL with 12k on it, both had misaligned body trim pieces, rattles, along with door seals that were coming loose. Give me a freaking break. I saved a ton of money buying the Expedition and it feels solid as a rock. The rear IRS is a huge improvement along with the 6 speed trans that you can't get in anything but the Denali. We'll see if it is reliable, but it feels like a vault in comparison to the crap GM tries to peddle.
I think the new Silverado is just about the most-attractive truck out there
I like heavy steel chrome bumpers on a truck. The plastic foo foo trucks today are not worth a hoot. The Chevy is the least obnoxious looking to me. The Fodges are just not proportioned right for my mind. And the Tundra, what can you say it goes beyond UGLY.
Speaking of UAW. How many of the domestic trucks are built in UAW factories? My 1988, 90 & 93 GM 3/4 ton PU trucks were built in Canada. My 1998 Suburban in Mexico. The 2005 GMC hybrid PU was built in Indiana.
So was my 2000 Suburban and it must have went down the line after a ciesta. The Expedition I replaced it with was made in Michigan. We'll see if it fares better than the Suburban. I sure hope so.
Jersey shore. You would be correct, however, that it is with the following generation that the Accords are all over the place.
Those 88 eras will kind of small. I liked the look of the pop up lights but it seems anyone who has had pop up light doesn't like them because they block a piece of the view ahead. That was one friend's complaint with an early Miata.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
To know them is to love them! I had several late '80s/early '90s GM cars: 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 1988 Buick Park Avenue, 1989 Cadillac Brougham, and a 1994 Cadillac DeVille. If they were so bad, I wouldn't have followed them up with a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS and a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.
The 1992-93 Roadmaster only had a 185 hp 350 V-8. Adequate, but not as good as what was to come. The Roadmasters to have are the 1994-96 models with a derivative of the Corvette LT-1 engine. I wouldn't pass up a mint 1994-96 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham either! The 1994-96 Chevrolet Impala SS is also one to have!
Lemko, I'll confess that I always liked how the Caddy Brougham looked, it was classic Cadillac. My grandpa did have an 87 Caprice Classic Brougham LS that was a really nice car. I was less impressed with the Roadmaster as I'd often compare it to my dad's 92 CrownVic LS that was far superior to drive IMO. The Buick was nicer to ride in, but from behind the wheel the Roadmaster was something only an old man (my grandpa) could appreciate. Sure, the LT1 350 certainly livened things up under the hood, but it did nothing about the horrid handling and brakes. I've never liked any of the fwd Park Ave's and I've behind the well of several, no things.
who are crowing about the quality of your Big 3 car, I am truly happy for you...I really am...all I have ever said is that, apparently, much of this nation does NOT share your opinions, or else the Big 3 market share, and many posters on these sites, would not reflect the opinion that imports have better quality than ours...
The fact that one can point to the Malibu as a quality car begs the question...where has that quality been for the last 30 years???...
Cheering for a few Big 3 great cars does not change the fact that they made too much junk for 3 decades, and now they are paying the price...literally...
Cheering for a few Big 3 great cars does not change the fact that they made too much junk for 3 decades, and now they are paying the price...literally...
True.
When I was shopping for a replacement for my Suburban, I needed/wanted another full-size SUV. I have a boat and travel trailer that we tow and have been thinking about going to a bigger boat. Gotta love what gas prices have done to RV/Boat prices. $20k+ price reductions will buy a lot of gas.
Since my purchase was definitely going to be used that did limit my options. I wanted max tow ratings I could get. That basically left me with Expedition, Armada, Suburban (and clones). The Durango's are hideous and complete gas pigs. Armada's are hard to find used around here, great towing power though and I tried to find one without driving for hours. The previous Sequoia while nice does not have enough of a tow rating. The new one is more than I wanted to spend.
So I stumbled on an extremely clean well optioned 07 Expedition for a price that was quite a bit lower than a similar Tahoe/Suburban and the Expe has a much higher tow rating. So I ended up with a Ford in my driveway. I hope it's not problematic, but we'll see.
Just my two cents on a few topics in this thread...
- Perception is reality. Not just when it comes to car quality but in general. There are countless examples in everything from cars, TV shows, politics, education, etc. that shows what people THINK to be true or accurate is often more important than what the FACTS say to be true. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but it is the truth. And in general the majority of Americans feel that the quality of the Big 3 in the US is much lower than that of the Japanese and German automakers. I guarantee you that if you took a random sample of 1000 Americans from across the US you would find at least 75-80% who think this way.
- As an outside observer I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread can be traced back to generational shifts in thinking. Younger Americans who grew up in the 80s and 90s have grown up with the sense that the Big 3 are ugly, noisy, unpolished and unreliable. They weren't around to see the horrible early imports coming from Japan in the 60s and 70s. Conversely, they were around when the Big 3 continued to pump out unreliable vehicles that appeared (perception again) to be the ugly stepsister of their foreign counterparts. And in the 80s and 90s this perception WAS reality as the Big 3 did turn out piss poor vehicles.
- Remember, when discussing an industry like cars we talk in generalities. Yes, the Malibu is a fine automobile. But it is ONE car in a sea of many put out by GM. One car is not enough to break such an imbedded perception as exists today. It will take years and continued increases in quality across all brands to break this perception.
- I think differences in perceptions by the sexes comes into play as well. 20-30 years ago women did not have the income or car buying opportunities that they do today. And the cars reflected that. Women don't necessarily want a big ol' V8 that sounds like a freight train. They want safe, reliable, dependable and good looking cars. This is yet another stake in the heart of the Big 3. They missed this boat completely while Honda, Toyota, BMW, VW and even Hyundai jumped all over it. Today women have so much more of a say in their family's car buying decisions and they are going to gravitate towards a foreign made automobile.
- The UAW was a great institution. Key word is was. It was needed at a time when workers were abused and taken advantage of. Believe it or not those days are over. Today, differences in how firms treat employees (how much pay, what benefits, how much time off, what retirement plans, etc.) via the market are so much more varied than they were back in the old days. If any employee doesn't like how his/her firm treats them, he/she can leave at any time. Today's workforce is also better educated and a higher education is basically a must if you want to be paid and treated well by your employer. The days of blue collar employees without a college degree expecting to be paid $28+ dollar an hour are over. Just like how the US graduated from a farming based country to a manufacturing one, we have now moved from manufacturing to information/technology/marketing country. And if an employer closes shop and the employee is unwilling or unable to adapt, it isn't the employer's problem. This is capitalism, sorry. Every single working adult in this country should be flexible. You are not "owed" or "guaranteed" anything and if you think you are you are either ignorant or foolish. Everyone should have their resume updated at all times and should be prepared to adapt when the crapola hits the fan at their place of business. That may mean you need to move your family to another state, take classes to learn new skills, move to a lower position to get a leg up someplace new. It may SUCK royally to do this, but that doesn't make it wrong. It makes it a free-market based America.
- Choice. God I love choices. In the 21st century I can choose from a million things to eat at my local supermarket. I can choose a million different things to wear from the mall. Take tomatoes. No one will force me to eat locally grown tomatoes. I like tomatoes, and if I want I can get them from Florida, Georgia, California, Mexico, Brazil, Italy, etc. This is a good thing. Same with cars. I can shop for one of hundreds of cars from dozens of automakers from every corner of the globe. With this increase in choices automakers have to compete more. The UAW and the Big 3 just can't (and sometime won't which just boggles my mind) compete with some of their brethern and that puts them at a definitive disadvantage. They need to adapt and while it will be painful it is needed for long-term growth and success. Because otherwise, people will continue to make choices and choose cars that aren't made by the Big 3. And not feel bad about it at all.
Welcome...nice to meet someone who understands, despite how painful it might be...
Life is different...we will no longer join a company at age 18 or 22, work there for 45 years, get a gold watch and collect a never-ending pension...pension plans, totally paid by the employer, will be/have been replaced by 401K, which means YOU will put some of YOUR weekly paycheck away for YOUR retirement...
You may work for 5-7 employers in your work life of 45-50 years (age 20 to 70, forget retiring at 65, which is good for Society as a whole)...your skills will change, your education will never stop, and get used to new friends and new co-workers, as you may find yourself selling your home and moving every 5 years...
Ozzie and Harriet are dead, and, once we acknowledge the change, we may be better off for it, except everybody's comfort zone will expand, since stagnation is not an option...
Can you imagine the screaming right now if the proposal to let people invest their Social Security funds themselves in 401k type plans had gone forward a decade ago?
Then you have newly retired idiots who take a hunk of their 401ks and buy a shiny new red (UAW made) truck and wonder why they wind up having to eat potted meat.
American Axle settled with the UAW not long ago; now they are laying off 600 salaried jobs. Reuters
Up north, Buzz Hargrove is retiring. GM is probably happy about that.
I hate to find myself to be the one saying this but a lot of that change really is for the better. The toughest part is in the transition which is where we are right now. I just hope my pension runs its course as agreed. I do tell my kids don't expect the deal I got because it isn't there anymore.
I'm in one of those last fixed pension jobs and it's nice but in reality I don't expect such things to continue much. Nothing wrong with 401Ks other than some people just will not take care of themselves no matter how much you explain it to them.
I haven't done much moving. I suspect that in a few years I may do that one time deal - move from expensive NJ to a cheaper area, collect the one pension while looking for something else for more income and take it from there.
I'm old enough that I'll have Social Security but that's another one to straighten out.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Can you imagine the screaming right now if the proposal to let people invest their Social Security funds themselves in 401k type plans had gone forward a decade ago?
Not me, I'd say thank you very much. I'd much rather have control of the money instead of the idiots in Washington.
proposal is another one of Bush's truly good ideas that was shot down by both Repubs and Democrats...it really does bother me when politicians, elected by us, tell us that we cannot take care of ourselves...
After all, they will line their pockets and take care of THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have my reservations about how that one was put together.
I have no doubt that you could do better with the money than the Feds. Maybe I could. The way I saw it there was a huge invitation for everyone to dump all this new found money into the stock market when a small percentage of people know the first thing about how it works.
Devil is in the details and it never got that far.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Comments
That may be true, but there's an equal push by the Left to encourage illegals to come here to undermine wages so that there will be more disaffected workers, illegal and native-born, so that they can exploit them for their votes (via amnesty or lack of oversight on voter registrations) purchased with handouts of other peoples' money.
I'd say both sides gain from the mismanagement of immigration policy. Cheap labor and destruction of living wage standards for one, social attention for the other. Crying about "the left" is nice, but the neocon right is far from innocent or ethical.
They are simply incapable of waking up until they are near death...they raise taxes so businesses have to pay more to be there, and then workers have been union-spoiled for so long they think it is their divine right to get $30/hour to sweep the floor or stock the shelves...reality hits with each wave of layoffs, but they still don't get it...they sit there wondering why companies don't line up to come to Michigan, and Michiganders themselves live in a dream world...
They have nothing to offer an employer except cold weather and snow...their trained work force can be trained in Alabama or Tenn to do the same work at half the price, where the attitude is that they are grateful to have a job rather than look for the location of the "Job Bank"...
Detroit was so crooked in the 1980s, and it has only become 100X worse since I left in 1990 (not because of me)...taxes on a $60K house are $3,000, and for that you get unionized city workers who do not work...
The UAW is dying a slow death, probably for the betterment of society...the Big 3, however, will probably survive when they move all their plants down south after declaring Chapter 11, voiding all contracts, and start anew with people who want to work, people who are garteful for a job instead of demanding they be treated like princes...
It will be painful because something we have seen for 75 years is about to die, and nobody wants change...but the death of the union is the only solution, and then re-stocking with new workers will be the answer...clean sweep...like the college football team whose entire star lineup are seniors...one day they graduate and the new team is all freshmen...they do not act as a team, but, over time, they do...
The only benefit to seniority will be to place them at the head of the line in thre cafeteria...
Oh, don't forget to throw out rotten management, too...
Rotten business models are subject to change like everything else. In GM's case, the pain will be more pronounced even until death of a once great company because change was not embraced along the way many years ago.
GM will change forever. Now the pace is accelerating faster than a Chinese auto startup!
link title
Regards,
OW
I think you will find that Toyota has caught up to GM in lackluster products and surpassed them in poor service. Overall my 07 Sequoia is better than my 05 GMC PU truck. While the service at Toyota was friendly, it was much more expensive than GMC service. Neither was able to solve problems with the vehicle. Ironically they are across the street from each other. GMC sent me a coupon for free service each time it was due. Toyota charged $63 for the 5000 mile oil change. Used cheap 30 weight oil. Did not fix the problems with the Sequoia. I think the newer model of the Sequoia is not up to the old one build, fit and finish wise. Doors do not feel as solid. More like a new GM SUV.
Instead, Smith capitulated in 6 weeks, giving up the only chance to destroy the union...until now, of course...
My wife's '03 Yukon needed the extended service warranty that I purchased. I am $1,100 ahead by buying that over 6 years come November 2008!
One more year and it's curtains!
Regards,
OW
It took years of junk before they abandoned Big 3 cars...not only will Big 3 need superb quality to attempt to lure them back, but they have to experience sufficient trouble with the Toy/Hon to actually consioder abandoning them and come back to Big 3...
Yet, the bigger they are, the harder they fall...
It'll help, too, if people keep saying how they hate GM cars and the unions because they had a 197X car that didn't last; that way people won't look to reality of the newer cars or that there were cars within the model mix that have given and give good service today. It's sort of like continually reminding people about the Toyota motors out there with sludging problems so that they perceive that all Toyotas have sludge.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Reality is what people perceive is true. Simple as that. One person can not try all GM vehicles or make a statistical analysis of the probability they will get junk. When they experience problems (or perceive there are many problems), depending on their propensity of pain, sooner or later they switch brands. Add to that the brilliant strategy of weighting production and inventory with less than stellar efficient vehicles, and you draw blood. Big blood!
Toyota is not immune but way more flexible and higher quality as perceptions go.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
OW
I don't personally have problems with unions themselves, but I do have an issue when either a union or the people in that union that refuse to accept the current situation and be willing to change. The attitude of "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too" is so prevalent in this state.
Still, Michigan does have a lot to offer, and it does have a skilled workforce - now if they can just change the attitude..
VW executives have narrowed their site options to Alabama, Tennessee and Michigan.
Any bets on who gets ruled out first?
That doesn't make sense!!! no matter how much you want to smear GM.
Reality
"A real thing or fact"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Did I ever mention my awful '74 Volvos that pretty much turned me off the brand for good? (more than a dozen times that is :shades: ).
Did I ever mention my union assembled Nissan that's humming along at 125,000 miles? (more than a few dozen times?
If we were talking bubble gum at 5 cents each, one could afford to try 10 different brands before settling on one favorite...but when you spend thousands of $$$ on a Big 3 piece of junk, and then if your import experience is one of high quality, the NEW reality is that import cars are better...that is why the Big 3 have an uphill battle, they not only must make their cars good, they must make them GREAT, because it is 4th down and they are behind by 2 touchdowns with a minute to go...whether that buyer blames the union, management, dealers does not matter...if they refuse to buy another product from, say, GM, then GM has much work to do to bring them back, because their past bad behavior has alienated that car buyer, and THAT is reality, regardless of any dictionary definition...
pmom: "Oh, by the way, they don't want to pay (or even co-pay) for medical, dental, or other benefits."...that is another stupid demand of the UAW, that they pay nothing for their benefits...many company plans have deductibles of $500 or $1000...it is time the union workers joined the rest of us and paid a premium for their benefits and paid some of the freight in the actual cost...
Don't worry, tho...as long as they maintain their ridiculous demands, the automakers may capitulate to the actual demand, but then dump 50,000 workers to have the additional funds to pay...so, will the last UAW worker have fully paid health care???...yes, he will be the only one...
Maybe you believe that SE Michigan (Downriver) has skilled workers to offer...skilled trades, yes...but now you have to find someone who is actually stupid enough, after 50 years of union militancy amd welfare entitlement attitude, to actually want to set up shop in a war zone...that answer is a resounding NO!!!...if the worker wants a job commeasurate with their skills, they will have to go to the job, as the job will never come to Michigan...and, when they fill out a job app, they had better hide their UAW experience, as any employer with half a brain will NOT want to untrain that entitlement attitude that is now embedded in their DNA (" "well, my daddy and my daddy's daddy all worked for the union and they had all these things, so I should get them too"...those days are over)...the State of Michigan was the big wheel for a half century or more, but it is now a part of history...there is NOTHING that Michigan offers that will ever bring an employer up there, that cannot be obtained elsewhere...
Sorry to be so direct, but tell me anything offered by Michigan that would draw an employer away from ANYPLACE else...higher taxes???...crime???...entitlement attitude of everyone on the street???...Job Bank, getting paid by a company to sit on your a**, remember, they thought they were entitled to it...just how do you intend to get any of them up off their duff to actually work, when the work "strike" is also in their DNA???...
Aside from tourism in the upper state, as far as industry goes, Michigan has NOTHING to offer anybody who wants to set up a PROFITABLE company...period...
Start packing...
Marsha7, your rants are so out of date they are spoiled. You have nary a clue what current UAW workers pay. The people you talk about have retired and this new generation of UAW folks well are well SOL. On another note I would love to see the Volkswagon plant located here. I lreally like the VW Passat's. What car is going to be made in that plant ????
"The Rock"
Care to bet 25 cents that the VW plant never sees Michigan soil or within 200 miles of it???????????????????????????????????
That's totally different than saying "They pay nothing for their benefits".
What deductible are you referring to anyway - a doctor's office visit, an eye exam, a regular dental checkup? I pay a deductible for all of these.
An electrician co-worker hopes the VW plant ends up in Alabama. His permanent home is there and the plant location would be within daily driving distance.
He seems to be a jinx wherever he goes. He was at the Chrysler Huntsville, AL parts plant when they closed it. Now he's at the St. Louis assembly minivan plant, which is getting ready to be mothballed at the end of October.
I agree, but it's not that simple. First, the Toy sludge and Hon transmission troubles were not particularly widespread. Honda was very helpful in rectifying the problem; I don't know if that's true of the Toy sludge issues. So while those were black marks, they weren't THAT bad compared with far worse problems with big 3 iron. Big 3 iron has also had 20-30 years of major issues, which is a much longer track record. My college carpooler saved his $4K from McDonald's and bought a brand new Vega that rusted and then the engine corroded by 50K miles, while I kept driving a 66VW bug. My brother bought a 1995 Windstar that had transmission and engine problems, both well under 50K miles. Those things stick with you.
While GM has had some very reliable cars, you have to look at what people want:
1 - Is it reliable?
2 - Is it refined? Does the engine sound good? Do the doors shut solidly?
3 - Is the interior pleasant and attractive? Are the ergonomics good? Are parts of high quality, or do they quickly break?
The problem is that even when GM has gotten #1 right, often #2 and/or #3 has been lacking. It's not JUST reliability, it's not JUST refinement, and it's not JUST interior quality. Sure, you could have a reliable Buick in the 1990's, but what did the inside look like? That's why the new Malibu, for example, is such a welcome sign. But it sure is late....
FRANKFURT, July 5 (Reuters) - The U.S. State of Alabama will be the likely home of a new Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) manufacturing plant, beating two other states, German industry newsletter Automobilwoche said on Saturday, citing senior company sources.
A VW spokesman said that a decision on the location of the plant had yet to be taken and that Alabama, Tennessee and Michigan remained in the running. A decision is expected by July 21, the spokesman said.
Daimler's (DAIGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) Mercedes Car Group has had a manufacturing plant in Alabama for years and ThyssenKrupp (TKAG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), an important supplier of automotive steel, is also opening a production facility in the state. (Reporting by Jonathan Gould and Frank Siebelt, Editing by Peter Blackburn)
GM is crap in my reality.
Regards,
OW
I figured I was gonna be a foreign car guy for life.
Well, when I met my current wife, she was a Ford girl and we went through 4 of them in 10 years (Escort, Expedition, Explorer and Focus - all leased except the Focus). Not one major mechanical problem on any of them.
My family now drives Saturns (VUE, ION and 2 L-series) - the L-series have had some issues, but, in my opinion, the products from the US manufacturers is just as good as what you can get from Japan (or Korea, or Sweden, or Germany).
How did his replacement Honda or Datsun or Toyota or Fiat or Opel go without rusting in those years?
A difference between the keeping of reputation with many of the owners is that Honda replaced transmissions free, even after warranty. But I would have expected lifetime replacements rather than just up to 100,000 miles under extended warranty which Honda chose to do. Some people consider failed transmission as having had no problems because the replacement was free. Having the money to pay for errors mitigates bad attitude on the part of buyers.
A friend just bought a Passat after having many problems with a Jetta a few years earlier. Oh, did I mention they bought a green bug a year ago because his wife had had one earlier in her life? I'm going to remind him to watch the oil used in the Passat because of the sludging problems some VWs have had.
As for the money GM spends (spent) too much on management and spent too much on worker salaries, healthcare, and luxurious retirements because of the unions through the decades and couldn't afford to be generous with replacements as can the imports with new plants, younger workers, and lots of temps.
>had 20-30 years of major issues,
That would be 1980. Try a 1980 Cutlass Supreme. Replaced a 1977 Cutlass Supreme. No problems out of normal replacements; gas and go.
1981 Buick Skylark X car FWD. No problems. Replaced with 1985 Skyhawk as second car with a wunderbar 1.8 motor with OHC.
Then a 1987 Century, and 1989 Century, and 1993 LeSabre, and 1998 LeSabre and 2003 LeSabre. Have the last two in my garage. Darn things don't last! 160,000 miles on 1998. Just had a seep of gasoline where winter salt has severly corroded the line where it's clipped to a nylon gas line. I'm sure a Honda would never have had corrosion problems, though.
Perhaps I chose cars wisely when I chose and cared for them much like some care for their foreign cars--as we should. I can show examples of people's not having taken care of cars of all flavors. A neighbor just worked on a mid 90s Camry which had not been taken care of and has a leaking head gasket or cracked block.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I bought a new 1978 Honda Accord. It had overheating problems from the start. It finally caused the engine to throw a rod at about 60k miles. It had to be the WORST car I ever owned. I was in a bind with a 75 mile each way commute and there was a one year waiting list on a VW diesel. That was the last Honda for me. I should have stuck with a domestic PU truck and paid the extra gas. It would have been cheaper in the long run and better resale. When I traded the Accord on an Escort in 1984 it was worth $ZERO$.
Geeze, funny how I still see so much 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s Detroit iron. What happened to all those super-reliable Japanese cars? Oh, yeah, they collapsed into piles of iron oxide dust 10-20 years ago.
I am glad you keep buying new GM cars. It gives the UAW guys some hope for the future. If they did not build them so well they would not be working themselves out of a job. I still see many, many 1980 vintage Chevy PU trucks running around. My favorite years was 1988 to 1998. I still think they are the best looking trucks EVER built. Can't say much for any new truck domestic or foreign. They are ALL ugly to me. I should have never sold my 1998 Suburban. A wonderful vehicle.
You must not be looking. Loads of 'em still around.
I'm very happy with my new Cadillac DTS Performance and girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse keeps going on without any trouble.
Beats me. My dad had a 2000 Park Ave that was completely junk. Head gaskets, intake manifold, major oil leaks, and every electrical gremlin you can imagine all by 80k miles. Maybe 2000 was a bad year for GM, because my 2000 Suburban was a major POS too. I don't know how anyone can appreciate a late 80's to early 90's GM products. Yuck, whether they are reliable or not. I still remember my grandpa's 92 RoadMaster. That thing was horrible to drive, overboosted numb steering, nearly non existant brakes. It was slow and a gas pig unless you really babied it. That TBI 350 sounded and felt like a truck engine, oh yeah, it was.
My dad has had good luck with his Fords. His '92 CrownVic went 230k until it was essentially all used up. He replaced that with a '00 Taurus that he has close to 170k on it. He did have to replace the radiator at 160k.
We'll see I replaced my Suburban with an 07 Expedition EB. I like it a lot better than the 07-08 Suburban/Yukon's I compared it to. Tows my boat much better than the Suburban. I test drove several used 07-08 Suburban, Yukon Denali's and felt like they were still the junk I was already driving. I drove an 08 Denali with 6k miles on it and an 07 Yukon XL with 12k on it, both had misaligned body trim pieces, rattles, along with door seals that were coming loose. Give me a freaking break. I saved a ton of money buying the Expedition and it feels solid as a rock. The rear IRS is a huge improvement along with the 6 speed trans that you can't get in anything but the Denali. We'll see if it is reliable, but it feels like a vault in comparison to the crap GM tries to peddle.
I like heavy steel chrome bumpers on a truck. The plastic foo foo trucks today are not worth a hoot. The Chevy is the least obnoxious looking to me. The Fodges are just not proportioned right for my mind. And the Tundra, what can you say it goes beyond UGLY.
Speaking of UAW. How many of the domestic trucks are built in UAW factories? My 1988, 90 & 93 GM 3/4 ton PU trucks were built in Canada. My 1998 Suburban in Mexico. The 2005 GMC hybrid PU was built in Indiana.
So was my 2000 Suburban and it must have went down the line after a ciesta. The Expedition I replaced it with was made in Michigan. We'll see if it fares better than the Suburban. I sure hope so.
Those 88 eras will kind of small. I liked the look of the pop up lights but it seems anyone who has had pop up light doesn't like them because they block a piece of the view ahead. That was one friend's complaint with an early Miata.
The 1992-93 Roadmaster only had a 185 hp 350 V-8. Adequate, but not as good as what was to come. The Roadmasters to have are the 1994-96 models with a derivative of the Corvette LT-1 engine. I wouldn't pass up a mint 1994-96 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham either! The 1994-96 Chevrolet Impala SS is also one to have!
The fact that one can point to the Malibu as a quality car begs the question...where has that quality been for the last 30 years???...
Cheering for a few Big 3 great cars does not change the fact that they made too much junk for 3 decades, and now they are paying the price...literally...
Were Expeditions made in Louisville also? I think I heard they were shutting down the truck plant there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
True.
When I was shopping for a replacement for my Suburban, I needed/wanted another full-size SUV. I have a boat and travel trailer that we tow and have been thinking about going to a bigger boat. Gotta love what gas prices have done to RV/Boat prices. $20k+ price reductions will buy a lot of gas.
Since my purchase was definitely going to be used that did limit my options. I wanted max tow ratings I could get. That basically left me with Expedition, Armada, Suburban (and clones). The Durango's are hideous and complete gas pigs. Armada's are hard to find used around here, great towing power though and I tried to find one without driving for hours. The previous Sequoia while nice does not have enough of a tow rating. The new one is more than I wanted to spend.
So I stumbled on an extremely clean well optioned 07 Expedition for a price that was quite a bit lower than a similar Tahoe/Suburban and the Expe has a much higher tow rating. So I ended up with a Ford in my driveway. I hope it's not problematic, but we'll see.
- Perception is reality. Not just when it comes to car quality but in general. There are countless examples in everything from cars, TV shows, politics, education, etc. that shows what people THINK to be true or accurate is often more important than what the FACTS say to be true. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but it is the truth. And in general the majority of Americans feel that the quality of the Big 3 in the US is much lower than that of the Japanese and German automakers. I guarantee you that if you took a random sample of 1000 Americans from across the US you would find at least 75-80% who think this way.
- As an outside observer I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread can be traced back to generational shifts in thinking. Younger Americans who grew up in the 80s and 90s have grown up with the sense that the Big 3 are ugly, noisy, unpolished and unreliable. They weren't around to see the horrible early imports coming from Japan in the 60s and 70s. Conversely, they were around when the Big 3 continued to pump out unreliable vehicles that appeared (perception again) to be the ugly stepsister of their foreign counterparts. And in the 80s and 90s this perception WAS reality as the Big 3 did turn out piss poor vehicles.
- Remember, when discussing an industry like cars we talk in generalities. Yes, the Malibu is a fine automobile. But it is ONE car in a sea of many put out by GM. One car is not enough to break such an imbedded perception as exists today. It will take years and continued increases in quality across all brands to break this perception.
- I think differences in perceptions by the sexes comes into play as well. 20-30 years ago women did not have the income or car buying opportunities that they do today. And the cars reflected that. Women don't necessarily want a big ol' V8 that sounds like a freight train. They want safe, reliable, dependable and good looking cars. This is yet another stake in the heart of the Big 3. They missed this boat completely while Honda, Toyota, BMW, VW and even Hyundai jumped all over it. Today women have so much more of a say in their family's car buying decisions and they are going to gravitate towards a foreign made automobile.
- The UAW was a great institution. Key word is was. It was needed at a time when workers were abused and taken advantage of. Believe it or not those days are over. Today, differences in how firms treat employees (how much pay, what benefits, how much time off, what retirement plans, etc.) via the market are so much more varied than they were back in the old days. If any employee doesn't like how his/her firm treats them, he/she can leave at any time. Today's workforce is also better educated and a higher education is basically a must if you want to be paid and treated well by your employer. The days of blue collar employees without a college degree expecting to be paid $28+ dollar an hour are over. Just like how the US graduated from a farming based country to a manufacturing one, we have now moved from manufacturing to information/technology/marketing country. And if an employer closes shop and the employee is unwilling or unable to adapt, it isn't the employer's problem. This is capitalism, sorry. Every single working adult in this country should be flexible. You are not "owed" or "guaranteed" anything and if you think you are you are either ignorant or foolish. Everyone should have their resume updated at all times and should be prepared to adapt when the crapola hits the fan at their place of business. That may mean you need to move your family to another state, take classes to learn new skills, move to a lower position to get a leg up someplace new. It may SUCK royally to do this, but that doesn't make it wrong. It makes it a free-market based America.
- Choice. God I love choices. In the 21st century I can choose from a million things to eat at my local supermarket. I can choose a million different things to wear from the mall. Take tomatoes. No one will force me to eat locally grown tomatoes. I like tomatoes, and if I want I can get them from Florida, Georgia, California, Mexico, Brazil, Italy, etc. This is a good thing. Same with cars. I can shop for one of hundreds of cars from dozens of automakers from every corner of the globe. With this increase in choices automakers have to compete more. The UAW and the Big 3 just can't (and sometime won't which just boggles my mind) compete with some of their brethern and that puts them at a definitive disadvantage. They need to adapt and while it will be painful it is needed for long-term growth and success. Because otherwise, people will continue to make choices and choose cars that aren't made by the Big 3. And not feel bad about it at all.
Whew, rant over...for now
Life is different...we will no longer join a company at age 18 or 22, work there for 45 years, get a gold watch and collect a never-ending pension...pension plans, totally paid by the employer, will be/have been replaced by 401K, which means YOU will put some of YOUR weekly paycheck away for YOUR retirement...
You may work for 5-7 employers in your work life of 45-50 years (age 20 to 70, forget retiring at 65, which is good for Society as a whole)...your skills will change, your education will never stop, and get used to new friends and new co-workers, as you may find yourself selling your home and moving every 5 years...
Ozzie and Harriet are dead, and, once we acknowledge the change, we may be better off for it, except everybody's comfort zone will expand, since stagnation is not an option...
Then you have newly retired idiots who take a hunk of their 401ks and buy a shiny new red (UAW made) truck and wonder why they wind up having to eat potted meat.
American Axle settled with the UAW not long ago; now they are laying off 600 salaried jobs. Reuters
Up north, Buzz Hargrove is retiring. GM is probably happy about that.
I'm in one of those last fixed pension jobs and it's nice but in reality I don't expect such things to continue much. Nothing wrong with 401Ks other than some people just will not take care of themselves no matter how much you explain it to them.
I haven't done much moving. I suspect that in a few years I may do that one time deal - move from expensive NJ to a cheaper area, collect the one pension while looking for something else for more income and take it from there.
I'm old enough that I'll have Social Security but that's another one to straighten out.
Not me, I'd say thank you very much. I'd much rather have control of the money instead of the idiots in Washington.
After all, they will line their pockets and take care of THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have no doubt that you could do better with the money than the Feds. Maybe I could. The way I saw it there was a huge invitation for everyone to dump all this new found money into the stock market when a small percentage of people know the first thing about how it works.
Devil is in the details and it never got that far.