Leather Seat Maintenance

traderalex1

In other words, the German market regards nappa as a leather featuring the same, full-grain character with soft tannage. Most garment (clothing) leather is made from the hides of Holstein "spready" dairy cows or lamb, which would generally not be of sufficient thickness or strength to hold up for upholstery use. Gloves are typically manufactured most popularly from deer skin, as well as some kid or calf. I am not personally familiar with any automotive upholstery that is made from anything other than a bovine hide, but I suppose anything can be possible.

achenator

You seem to be the expert on leather. How do you care for the leather in your car?

currey

that I wanted to ask, thanks achenator. Please traderalex do tell as I have read this forum for the last month or so and I am finally ready to start treating my brand new leather seats. What would you suggest?

haspelbein

Yes, the same thought came to my mind. 'Nappa' leather would be rather thin. On the other hand, 'Nappa' is a relatively loose term. It makes me wonder what exactly is being used in the S-Class.

Thanks for your input btw., it's the most informative reading on leather seats I've seen here.

pblevine

Thanks. I've learned a lot about auto leather in just a few days and consider this forum topic to be a public service.

traderalex1

Thank you all again for your comments. My so-called leather expertise is actually indirectly derived. My background is a as rawhide trader. And by rawhide, I am talking literally about a hide that is pulled fresh off the cow's back on the slaughterhouse kill floor, which is then usually cured in very large swimming pool-like structure called a "raceway", which is filled with a near 100pct brine solution. The resulting "cure" allows rawhides to then be shipped in trucks or in ocean containers to tanneries all around the world, with little or no chance of degradation. With proper curing, even exposure to high temperatures for the short term should not bother rawhides. The key is not to permit the "cure" to leach out of the hide. If that happens, all bets are off. It certainly sounds quite gross, even my wife will be the first to tell you that. And rawhides, trust me, are not very pretty to look at or pleasant to smell. But in the end, this is exactly from where all of our magnificent leather products are derived.

Rawhide is a big business here in the USA. The weekly cattle slaughter in the USA averages approximately 700,000-725,000 head of cattle at this time (yes, that's every week). That translates to 725,000 hides that traders like myself buy and then ship to tannery customers around the world. Most of the hides do go for export. There are actually only a fraction of the tanneries remaining here in the USA compared to 30 years, ago. Most tanning has gone offshore to Asia, due to labor costs. But the high end and specialty niche producers, such as furniture and automotive upholstery tanners, are still here in force due to superior technique and quality. And their business is generally very strong. What I know about leathers comes from the fact that I am selling rawhides to the tanners who make the leather, and this does include the U.S. automotive leather tanners. We are also buying a number of their leather-related by-products. After years of trading and speaking daily with this group of people, one learns how the tanners conduct their business and develop it, and who is doing what in the market at any given point of time. Understanding exactly what kind of leathers the tanners are trying to produce helps us understand what quality of rawhide they will require for long term supply, to meet their objectives. So in the end, it is important in our business to know about leather.

Regarding the question Haspelbein asked about the Mercedes S-class leathers, I asked around in the trade about it. The report suggests that the leather being applied to the S-class is derived from North German bull rawhides (evidently no North American origin at this time), which are known to be of particularly fine quality. Their numbers are limited compared to the availability of rawhides in the USA, but then the S-class is not exactly a vehicle with huge production numbers. I would bet that BMW probably follow's suit for the leathers used in their 7 and 8 series. Seton leather owns a tannery in Germany, Seton-Lindgens Leder Fabrik GmbH, located
in Mulheim an der Ruhr, and they have another tannery in Hungary. They do supply leather for Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. So I would say it is likely that at least some of the higher end leathers required by these auto makers is produced in Seton's German facility. I believe Seton is making all of the specialty leathers that are found in the Mercedes CLK model. American made leathers, however, are exclusive to the Mercedes M-class, which is built in Alabama.

Regarding leather care, from what I have read in all the back postings, you folks as a group have pretty much hit all the appropriate nails as to what to do, as I have always known to practice myself. I have been using Lexol products for cleaning and conditioning on my seats for years, with good results. 3-4 times a year, more if you have the patience and time.

As you might expect, the R&D departments of all three U.S. automotive leather tanners spend a substantial amount of time testing their leathers for numerous wear and maintenance attributes. The number and types of tests conducted on the automotive leathers can boggle the mind, and it is not just limited to test procedures developed by the tanner R&D departments. The auto makers get into the act, too. In a number of cases, the auto makers will design their own test procedures for leather, and specify testing equipment to be used by the tanner on their behalf to examine leathers. In this case, these tests actually get "branded" by car maker name, ie: Ford Stress test, or GM Seat Pliability test #2, etc.

Now, as another insider insight that might make some or most of you cringe in disbelief: All this testing includes also a sampling of many of the after-market leather care products out on the street, and testing these products for use with automotive leathers. The verdict and opinion that once such expert conveyed to me: "all the branded care products are good. We did not see one that really had any advantage over another".....In the end, you have to interpret that for your own needs, and use what you like. After the reading the various posts, I am motivated enough to order a jar of Connelly Hide Food and try it. Enough people on this form seem to swear by it. I never used it before, so I am going to give it a try.

Aside from your own efforts to care for the seats, you do have to remember you have one advantage in your favor-the nature of the beast. Modern automotive leathers have been formulated by their makers from the standpoint that these leathers are going to be abused, subject to harsh environmental conditions, and thereby suffer a hard wear life. With those special, high tech finishes already applied on the auto leather, the theory holds that your extra effort beyond the typical driver for careful and regular care will enhance your chances for extended durability.

The R&D people will also tell you many of the same points that we already know-keep it out of the hot sun as often as as is practical for your personal situation. (a cool garage is a great place to park leather car seats). Apply cleaner and conditioner to the seats, regularly. You definitely want to avoid a situation that might cause the leather to dry out. Keep animals and heavy objects of any kind off the surfaces, if you can avoid it. And drape some kind of blanket or sheet over the back seating for your small children. You know the kids are not going to keep their feet off the leather; otherwise, insist that they remove their shoes when entering the car. If they start to fidget and work at it enough, their rubber sneaker soles can begin to abraid some topcoating from the seating surfaces, as well as the seatbacks that are in front of them. If you are more concerned than the average driver, pay attention to what objects you may have in your pockets, such as bulky wallets. Check whether your

traderalex1

For some reason, but last couple paragraphs of my post was cut off. Below should be the remainder of this commentary:
Check whether your clothing is draping on the upholstery in such a way that buttons, buckles, or other decorative items are creating a depression in the upholstery while you sit and drive. Good quality soft leathers may be less prone to this kind of damage than firmer leathers, because soft leathers should have a good "bounce", and return to shape more easily.

Per an earlier commentary, part of your ability to influence the long-term appearance of your leather may be out of your control due to seat construction methods and application of the leather to the seats. As per the very extensive R&D they conduct, the upholstery tanners go through a lot of trouble and expensive to understand the performance of their leathers very well.

The tanner's own marketing and R&D people do "attempt" to make suggestions and recommendations to the automakers in terms of what will work and what won't work for a car seat. As previously said, automotive leathers are really not a generic product. They are produced according to very specific specifications laid down by the automakers, and the leathers are thereby branded in the trade by specific auto maker types. There may be a bit of frustration from the tanners with the auto makers in that the auto makers generally don't necessarily like listen to tannery R&D suggestions for applications. The auto makers' marketing and design people are reportedly more inclined to go with their own instincts and opt for leather applications that may be visually appealing for consumers, but not necessarily practical for long term durability and uniform appearance.. This is a complicated sub-topic, with many branches, and it is tough to say who has the right point of view. I do personally believe the seat design and construction does impact the long-term appearance of the leather. Despite how well you may care for that leather, there may be some variables at play that will ultimately affect its appearance. These are variables that you may not be able to influence, no matter what you do. The case in point is my experience: excellent long term results with an Infiniti that featured lower grade, buffed leather, vs. my much more expensive and young Audi A6. Despite the best attention I can give to the Audi's interior, I am not pleased with about the way the Audi seats are wearing in.
I am sure it has everything to do with the way the leather was patterned to the seats. I would appreciate hearing from any other late model A6 owners who have had similar observations, and can offer any tricks for care that they figured out on their own.

div2

I truly appreciate your informative posts. There are more than a few "experts" in Town Hall who couldn't find various parts of their body with a full-length mirror and an anatomy book. It's refreshing to find a person who actually knows the subject they're discussing. Again, thanks for your helpful input.

pluskin

Great posts! I was curious, if you knew anything about Connolly from your "insider" point of view. You haven't really mentioned them, and I think they are easily the best known brand name in automotive leathers, as the supplier of choice for Jaguar, Rolls, etc. Do you know of anything that really sets them apart in this day and age?

I also thought I'd share something that I thought was interesting. At Jaguar's Whitley Engineering Centre, there is a display from Connolly. It has a number of swatches of leather that demonstrate various characteristics, such as the type of folds in the grain that a healthy animal has, rub marks from fencing, etc. Its pretty cool!

demodog1

Has anyone used Lexol Leather Seat Conditioner for any length of time? A friend says that he tried it some time ago and did not like it. However, I believe I have read previous posts which speak favorably of Lexol. Any posts from folks who have used it for a period of time would be appreciated.

traderalex1

Just to answer quickly here, per the last couple member posts. As previously outlined, the R&D departments at the various automotive upholstery tanners test all the various brand name leather cleaners and conditioners on a regular basis. They do have a keen interest to know how these products peform when used with their leathers.
The general thought I have been given, which will probably shock or disappoint a few, is that the R&D people seem to feel that all of them work reasonably well. No one branded product of cleaner or conditioner offered any unique advantage over another brand, in their opinion.
I have never used Connolly, before. But I have just ordered my first jar, after reading the numerous testimonials in this forum.

It is difficult for me to accept these thoughts about comparing various conditioners and cleaners.
But that's normal-everyone develops a favorite.
I think, at the end of the day, you have to select the product that makes you feel most comfortable.

pluskin

I think you misunderstood my question. I wasn't asking about any aftermarket leather conditioner. I was asking about Connolly, as an automotive upholsterly tanner. Is there anything distinctive about them, versus other tanners in the business?

traderalex1

I can't really make specific comments about Connolly. They have been around a long time. But is generally accepted in the trade that the American automotive leather tanners are the best in the world. Their formulations and technology have put them on top of the car leather game, and their competitors strive to replicate their products. Rolls, Jaguar, and some of the British exotics place orders with the American tanners. Seton has a tannery set up in Germany,
and Eagle Ottawa has an operation set up in the UK, and both do a sizable business in the European market.

rdsum

I thought I would put my two cents in about the leather seat discussion. My cousin has one of the early Lexus 400's. The leather looks like new. He does treat it about twice a year. However, he did have a leased RX300 "company car" with leather. The driver's seat looked worn within one year. The RX300 was new when he got it. The driver's seat had cracks in it and it looked about 10 years old after a short time. I do not know how to figure this one out. The RX300 leather was a lighter color. The seats in the 400 have dark leather. By the way, seat warmers are almost mandatory in our Canadian winters. Leather then feels OK after a very short time with the seat warmers on.

dwasson

I have read the last 415 posts and would like to thank everyone for there contribution. traderalex1 thanks for the incredibly informative posts.

I'm currently using Lexol leather cleaner and Lexol leather conditioned on my 1994 Lexus GS 300 but since I'm about to order some Zaino products I may also order their leather products and give them a try. It seems the consensus is that it's more important to clean and condition your leather several times a year then what actual products you use whether it's Lexol, Connolly Hide Food, Leatherique, Zymol, Zaino or some other product.

Does anyone know what is leather and what is vinyl on 1994 Lexus GS 300?

Someone previously posted this web address http://www.carcareonline.com/leather_care.html and in this article it mentions that Hide Food is made from rendered animal parts and that it will turn rancid after a couple years. Are any of the others products made with animal parts?

kenyee

traderalex:
I know you mentioned that they tested branded stuff, but I would think they mean Hide Food and Lexol. Leatherique seems like a small time operation. Do you know if they tested it?
FWIW, I like Leatherique better than the Zaino leather products. It made a cardboard stiff jacket collar look better initially and after 6 months w/o further treatment (I treated half w/ Zaino and the Zaino side was whitish after 6 months).

geoduck

I would welcome suggestions regarding how to remove a red stain from the leather front passenger seat on our (new!) 2001 Chrysler. A red piece of paper (a flyer) got wet and sat overnight, leaching out some color on the taupe seat.

This morning we attempted unsuccessfully to lightly sponge it off with a drop of soap and water.

Thanks for your attention.

traderalex1

In reference to Kenyee's question about Leatherique, I don't know of any specific information of testing by one of the upholstery tanners for this brand. Typically, all they do is send someone out to area stores, and just literally pull products off the shelves for bringing back to the lab. They have certainly tested all the really well known brands. But the opinion remained the same, they don't think any one brand is better than the other. I would agree that it really comes down you deciding whether you like the way the product applies, and you whether you like the way your seats look, afterwards. If you like it, stick with it.

With that said, I would now like to ask some advice of some of the good folks, out there. The various posts about Connolly Hide Food motivated me to obtain a jar and give it a try. Got it through the web, but there were no application instructions affixed to the jar. Can anybody offer advice from experience how much to use and apply to the seats, thanks. I assume this would be a typical application, dry time, and buff process.

As there is no ingredient information on my jar of Connolly, either, it could very well be that it does contained rendered bovine (cow) ingredients. If they are not using any preservatives to stabilize the renderings, then it is probably a good bet that the jar will turn "sour" in a couple years. But for 3-4 appliations per year, the typical user will probably consume the jar long before it can turn.

If there is any concern also as to the wisdom of using rendered ingredients in conditions, don't be worried. Rendered animal products are all around us, and have been for a very long time. Hate to tell you, but many of those insanely expensive skin care products our wives are using are loaded with rendered animal products. Ever wonder where "tallow" comes from? It would probably make your wife cringe, if she saw how tallow is produced. Our commercial dog and cat foods are also frequently based on rendered(inedible for human consumption) meats.

Regarding Geoduck's red stain removal, I am not sure I have a clear answer to this, either. Various solvents or even dry cleaning fluid comes to mind, but this runs a possible risk of damaging protective top coat that on the leather.
You might want to try using one of the leather cleaners, like Lexol, and see if you can carefully "wear off" the stain with a series of multiple applications of cleaner. You don't want to get into a situation in which you scuff or abraid the top coat. I will ask a couple people I know in the trade, to see if they can offer any suggestions.

pblevine

traderalex1,
Once again, thanks. I've learned a lot here.

kenyee,
I didn't get any whitish effect with Zaino's products. Although I haven't really tested any other product, the Zaino "Leather In A Bottle" (Z10?) seems to do a good job and I've been appying it about once every 2 or 3 months. Then again, the leather seats in my Honda Accord are probably not of the best quality available.

traderalex1

As promised, I have consulted with a couple upholstery leather experts in the trade, regarding their ideas for how best to try and remove a newsprint or advertising flyer ink stain from automotive upholstery.

As I had already suspected, you positively do not want to attempt to use any kind of cleaning solvents. These will most likely disolve the protective top coat, and thereby damage the leather.

Also, do not allow the vehicle to bake in the sun, following such an incident. The build of up any serious heat in the interior might cause the ink to oxidize or set into the finish, making it more difficult to remove.

There is no easy answer or magic solution to the problem. It is further difficult to advise what to do, as we cannot view the level or intensity of the red ink stain reported by our fellow forum participant. The best recommendation that the leather experts can advise, however, is to try and attack the stain wiht nothing stronger than an ordinary household cleaner. One individual suggested using ordinary dish washing liquid, such as Ajax. My other colleague recommended using Fantastik. The best approach in all cases is to be sure not to oversaturate the leather.

Plan on several multiple cleansing applications using a modest amount of cleaning agent for each attempt, scrubbing with a soft, non-abrasive sponge. Rinse, and then start the routine, again. Depending on the nature of the newsprint ink used, and level of the ink's penetration, you might have to repeat the procedure 5-15 times, before you notice any progress. The key is not to permit the leather to become too saturated with water. You do want to use limited amounts with each pass, and then dry the area. If the area feels too damp or soft after 3-4 cycles, you might want to let the leather sit and dry, before continuing with further cleaning.

This is, unfortunately, not advised as a guaranteed solution or promise for removal of the ink stain. You may end up just being able to reduce its prominence, and still have some remaining trace. A general consensus, however, might offer some good news. Newsprint ink is generally not a permanent, long-lasting ink. The repeated use of the car seat should gradually wear away the stain. Additionally, assuming that the said Chrysler vehicle is not equipped with UV
glass, continued exposure to UV light over several months' time should break down the ink pigment, allowing it to fade away. On that basis, I think there is a good chance that you will be rid of the stain with the passing of time, if the above suggested cleaning approach does not work. Once again, if you do try to clean it, be sure not to overdo it.

One further comment regarding the use of dishwashing liquid, as recommended by one of the leather traders I had spoken with: it has occurred to me that various dish washing liquids on the market are colored, ie: green, amber, etc. With that in mind, if you do decide to try one of these colored liquids, it might be a good idea to try it on an hidden test patch, first-to be certain that you don't end up with different stain problem, later. Fantastik, on the other hand, is a clear liquid. But I would recommend trying a test patch first, in any case.

geoduck

Thank you Traderalex for your advice. I appreciate all your effort. The gentle cleaner approach makes sense. After we give it a try, I will post a followup.

geoduck

Traderalex certainly knows of which he speaks! This morning I went out to evaluate the red-stained leather seat in our new Chrysler prior to attempting the aforementioned removal techniques. The car was parked in the sun. I was delighted to see that 75% of the red pigment had already faded away--only 5 days later. Definately the most non-invasive cleaning method out there.

I think we are going to leave it alone for a while.
Thanks for your help!

traderalex1

Geoduck-

That's very good news. The pigment is reacting faster to the UV exposure than I would have guessed. I agree with your evaluation to leave it, and let Mother Nature take its course. Considering the degree of fade you have already observed, I would say continued sunlight exposure + normal seat use should take care of the issue entirely, before too long.

rickhess

We just noticed a scuff mark or abrasion on the leather seating surface of the rear bench in our 2001 Suburban LT. At this point it is a roughness with three very fine flaps that feel smooth in one direction and raise up slightly when rubbed in the opposite direction. My concern is that with normal wear and abrasion, this will turn into a more unsightly scuff and eventually a hole. Can anything be done to repair this or protect it from further deterioration? All comments are welcomed.

traderalex1

Unfortunately, I don't think there is really anything you can do to repair the damage you describe, short of replacing the leather that wraps around that seating surface. On the other hand, automotive leather is pretty tough. It would be good to see it. But from what you describe, it sounds like a light surface damage, only. I would tend to doubt there is much chance that you will see any serious deterioration, or development of a hole with normal seat use.

drew_

I was at my MB dealership today for a couple of test drives when I noticed a '97 SL500 in the showroom. On the outside it was a spendid car, that looked well taken care of (Black Opal paint), albeit with a few minor scratches on the rear bumper that were buffed out. The inside told a different story though. It's amazing how even the finest black Nappa leather (fitted to the dash and doors, and even the rollbar and seatbelt anchors as well for this car) was hard and dry, not to mention well worn on the driver's side with two huge white lines on the right side bolster, all due to the lack of care over the years. It's going to take a lot of hard work to bring the leather even somewhat close to its original self.

I think the car was a lease return, so the driver really didn't care too much over the long run. A pity really...


Drew
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jskr

Hi there,

Has anyone used Coach cleaner and conditioner (sold as separate products) for Coach leather seats on a Lexus? Do they work fine, or is it better to use Lexol/some other product?

lancerfixer

Well, I used a Meguiar's leather cleaner/conditioner on my Volvo 740's seats. It seemed to work ok, but to be honest I really couldn't tell much difference; the previous owner had really, really taken care of the interior, to the point where I wonder if the leather might have been recently redone. (The car's 12 years old, and the leather looks like new. Of course, so does the rest of the car. The first owner obviously took pride in this machine.) I've seen some 740s that look great, and others whose leather is really ratted out. I guess it's all about how you take care of it from day one.

jskr

Hi there,

Has anyone used Coach cleaner and conditioner (sold as separate products) for Coach leather seats on a Lexus? Do they work fine, or is it better to use Lexol/some other product?

adam68

adam68

What is the best way to care for the wood
trim in my BMW? I've heard everything from pledge to car wax....any suggestions?

tonychrys

The wood trim in almost all cars is highly sealed, i.e., it has a thick coat of urethane, acrylic, or epoxy over it. So basically it really doesn't matter, pledge is fine. I wouldn't use car wax only because of the potential to accidentally get it on the plastic/vinyl/leather porus surfaces inside your vehicle. You'll then have the white wax residue on it which will be hard to get out.

traderalex1

As per some earlier discussions some weeks back, you can leave it to your personal perference as to which cleaner and conditioner to use, and not be worried. The automotive leather tanners are always doing random checks and tests of all the known national branded products out there. The consensus of the tanner R&D labs is that one branded conditioner or cleaner is just as good as another. So just stick with the product that seems to work for you.

h00k

I've recently acquired a 97 LS 400 with light tan leather interior. The leather seems to be in decent condition given the age of the vehicle, but the driver's side appears to have what looks like the beginning of drying/cracking. Not serious, but I certainly want to stop it and get the leather back into shape as much as possible.

The statements about different products being similar in results make sense, with the difference being the amount of time & effort put into maintenance. Before I pick a product, though, a two-part question:

1a. Is there a particular product that anyone has experience with that works exceptionally well in circumstances I've described, and

1b. Is there a significant difference in products that are combination cleaner/conditioners and ones that are separate cleaners and conditions (two products)?

Many thanks in advance,
A.

lokki

on my light interior BMW with good results.

I acquired this car used, and the leather was dry and hard compared to my other BMW with the same leather. I had used a couple of different cleaners and treatments, but it seemed to respond to the Meguiars more than some of the others.

A couple of caveats -

I had been using other products previously, so it may be just a matter of having reached critical mass with the application of the Meguiars; that is, I just hit the point in time where the leather was beginning to respond to treatment and anything would have done just as well. In any case, the leather is definitely softer and seems to be reaching the condition of my other, regularly-maintained-since-new car.

The left bolster crack/wear marks (same as yours, not bad but could become that way) disappear while the product is wet but return after a day or so.

It does seem to be an effective cleaner however; a clean cotton cloth used for application shows that has picked up some dirt that other cleaners hadn't. Doesn't seem to have removed any of the dye however.

Enjoy your Lexus!

Oh - I do want to say THANK YOU to TraderAlex1. This is a really interesting and valuable topic. Appreciate your taking the time for us.

h00k

Thanks Lokki!

I actually have used the Meguiar's cleaner/conditioned once now - bought it several days ago when I knew I needed something and it was the only name brand I recognized. I, too, found it got a significant amount of dirt (no dye) out of my seats. I'll stick with it for a while - at least until the bottle's gone.

Thanks for the quick response, I'd still like to hear any other viewpoints... don't want these seats to crack!

A.

p.. Lokki, I almost bought a 98 540i instead of the Lexus.... it was a tough choice. But my other vehicle is a Maxima, so I do have something kind of sporty (although it doesn't compare to the handling of the BOW).

h00k

ha! Ignore all the ignorant looking typos/mispellings in the previous post. I do know it's BMW, not BOW.

A.

darbh

On general principles, I use a cleaner to clean and a conditioner to condition. I condition often and would hesitate to apply a cleaner often, if there was no cleaning problem.

traderalex1

One point that I will make, I think you definitely are better off using separate cleaner and conditioner products, rather than use an all-in-one product that purports to eliminate one of the necessary steps for proper leather care. Using recognized brands that you like will serve you well. As long as you keep up with a routine of cleaning/treating your seats at least 4 times a year, you should be in good shape. A lot of people visiting this forum swear by Connelly Hide Food. I have tried it for the first time, simply based on the recommendations I read at this forum. There is no doubt that this conditioner produces a beautiful result. But I have also found it to be a relatively thick, viscous paste. At least in my use, I found it took a fair amount of effort and extended time to work the Hide Food into the leather. I am short on free time, so I am probably going to go back to using the Lexol cleaner and conditioner. If you read application advice over at the Lexol website, they claim it should take about 30 minutes for a typical user to clean and condition a set of car seats. I would say about 30-40 minutes using Lexol is an accurate representation, and that is important for my particular lifestyle and time. If you have extra time to work with the Connelly product, then by all means you should use it. The answer is, if you like the results you get, and you like the way the product fits in with your available time and car care practices, stick with it.

odessit1

Hi All!
I have a 1999 Lexus GS400 with beige leather interior. Unfortunately, I was careless enough to drive in my black leather jacket several times in the past. Now there's an unsightly black area on the driver's seat. It seems that the die from the jacket worked itself deep into the seat leather. I was really surprised as this was a $400 Nautica leather jacket - I didn't expect it to transfer die like that. When I noticed the problem, it was too late. I've tried several leather cleaners, but to no avail. Any advice would be really appreciated. I am quite despearate, as I am going to try and sell the car soon. The car is otherwise in tip-top shape, but this could be a real problem. I'm willing to try anything short of replacing the upholstery. That would be the last resort. BTW, if anyone has replaced upholstery in a similar car, I'd love to know how much that could run me. Thanks again for any pointers/advice.

bwiebe

I had a similar problem in my solara with small black marks showing up on my tan leather seat cushion. I suspect it was from my leather coat as well. I used the Zaino leather cleaner and to my pleasant surprise all the marks came off.

scottc8

Just received a jar of Hide Food (bought on the recommendations in this excellent forum). My car is nine months old, I keep it very clean and rarely carry passengers, so the leather is not dirty at all. I have been using Kiwi Leather Lotion monthly and wipe the seats off weekly or so with a towel that is very lightly dampened with a weak solution of Simple Green cleaner. Pretty sure the Leather Lotion contains some kind of wax, seems to be a lot like liquified saddle soap. Will a good cleaner such as Lexol remove any wax so that the Hide Food can work on "virgin" leather? Or is something stronger required?

The car is a 2000 Lincoln LS if that tells anyone something about the leather. The seats are very light grey, almost white.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Just started lurking here a week or so ago. Terrific group on this board.

BTW the Classic Care Care site where I bought the Hide Food suggests storing it in the refrigerator.

mike_542

Check out this interesting thread on a popular car care forum about cleaning and conditioning today's modern leather: http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?threadid=1747

Here is a sentence you guys/girls may want to consider, "using a product like Hyde Food on clear coated leather is a big no-no, as Hyde Food contains a good amount of mineral spirits"

Now, I just use 303 Aerospace protectant on my (clearcoated) leather.

darbh

Dear Trader (and others who have a view on what follows):

Could you comment on this post from another discussion group?

"Clear coated leather has been around for a while. I've been doing custom leather interiors since about 1987, that's when I was first introduced to leathers with a protective coating.

The clear coat applied to leather is not a tight seal. It has micro holes so the leather can breath. If it didn't, the coating would quickly delaminate.

The purpose of the clear coat is to give the leather an even looking finish, to make the upholstery as stain resistant as possible, and to help the leather retain moisture. All good things to those of us with leather interiors.

The polymer-based vinyl clear coats will be damaged by any quick flashing solvent (i.., lacquer thinner, acetone...). Likewise, mild petrol solvents like mineral spirits will slowly dissolve the coating. I know this because every time I make a boo-boo with my contact cement, when I'm covering a door panels or console, I get to start over. The solvent in the contact cement causes the clear coat to blister and come off.

From this you can conclude that using a product like Hyde Food on clear coated leather is a big no-no, as Hyde Food contains a good amount of mineral spirits. It also means that 303 is thin enough to penetrate the micro holes in the clear coat to provide some hydration to the leather and protect it from UV damage. "

The posters on this site seem to believe that using a conditioner that has oils will destroy the clearcoat. Many leading conditioners have oils. Comments?

traderalex1

I made mention in an earlier post from some weeks ago that I don't know what's in Hyde Food, myself, as the jar I received had no ingredient statement. I have taken a wiff of my jar, and there does seem to be an oder that could be evident of mineral spirits, but it is hard for me to say. I don't know why they would put mineral spirits in it for a conditioner, unless they are trying to use it as a thinning agent (the Hyde Food seems to be a very viscous product, my opinion), or a stabilizer for natural animal fats that I understand are in there. I can't give you an expert opinion, until I can find someone at one of the upholstery tanners who might be able to better comment. My first educated guess is that if mineral spirts are in there, it is trace amount. When blended with the other ingredients, it is probably not enough to do any harm. Keep in mind the car brands that are putting Hyde Food in their dealerships. The Rolls and The Jaguar leathers are going to have top coatings just the same as you are going to find on today's Fords
or VW's. They are all buying leather from the American Big Three, and I would intuitively think they will be rather cautious on the care products they are promoting to their customers. All automotive leathers have some kind of top coating these days. Propietary to the tanner that produced it, and also directly impacted by the specifications mandated by the individual auto makers (remember the discussion, about BMW Leather, GM Leather, etc). The auto leather is generally "branded" in the trade according the auto maker spec. They all strive for the same goal: durability, and also a rate of aging that will hopefully be at a rate equal the aging of the other components in a given car's interior. It is a complex product. I would certainly never dream of taking mineral spirits directly to the finish of any upholstery leather.
I used the Hyde Food once on my Audi seats, but won't use it again only because I felt it took me too much time for my needs to work it into the upholstery. So until I can be otherwise informed, I would say there is likely nothing wrong with Hyde Food. But as said before, if the product makes you happy, stick with it. If not, drop it. The R&D people at the tanneries, as discussed previously, maintain a position that one national brand of leather conditioner is as good as another. They saw no real advantages in random product testing. I would say the key to
safety is "national". A famous brand, one in which the company would generate a lot of negative publicity in a hurry, if they were putting out a product that was wrecking people's seats. Absolutely stay away from all that Cable TV advertised garbage, not just for leather care, but other car cleaning products as well. You the ones: "Buy one jar for $19.95, but if you call-now, we will give you a second jar, free. That's jars for just $19.95..."those the care products I would say you cannot trust.

darbh

Trader -- Thanks for another thoughtful and detailed response. So, you would say that the idea that fats and oils (intended for leather conditioning), in and of themselves, damage top coats, is false. Correct?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, Hide Food does take some time to work in, that is true....it is a rich cream, not a runny liquid, so you need to put in more elbow grease.

traderalex1

Yes, I don't believe any of the nationaly branded leather cleaners and conditioners will harm the automotive leathers out there. Most of the automotive leathers in use in the world have their roots from the American Big Three automotive leather tanners, whose dominance of this market is overwhelming. And they got where they are by offering a product featuring superior technique and quality, not marketing muscle.
Keep in mind several points: Leather was once living tissue with natural fats and oils, so putting it back into the leather is not going harm it. The automotive leather market really started to develop in the late 1980's. Prior to that period, it was not unheard of for automakers to employ furniture leather for their automotive seating, with predictable (and disasterous) results. The American Three pioneered a technology to produce a dedicated car seat leather that would hold up to abuse, as well as teh elements. They assume that the typical owner will likely do little or nothing to care for his/her car seats. So your own efforts and willingness to fuss after the upholstery in your car is an enormous plus torwards keeping the seats looking good, for years. An opportunity to keep your vehicle out of the sun, or in a cool garage, is also quite helpful. Yes, you can hurt automotive leather, if you really work at it, but it is not necessarily an easy thing to do.
Most of you participating in this form have likely using some nationally branded set of cleaner and conditioner in your cars, for years.
If you were causing damage to your seats, you would have likely seen evidence of some finish degradation, after a time. I think most of you have generally been happy with your long experience in using your chosen brand of care product(s). I don't believe these concerns that were brought up on that other website, therefore, make a whole lot of sense. I do agree, based on my own nose, it seem like there could be mineral spirits in Hyde Food. I have not yet been able to reach an expert for any commentary or advice as to why that might be so. But I do suspect, that if it is indeed in this product, that it is a trace amount. Its presence is likely to serve as a product thinner or stabilizer. In any case, straight mineral spirits would certainly wreck automotive upholstery. Many of you have been using Hyde Food for years, and seem to be very pleased with the long term results. My guess is that your long term experience is your answer.

Now, here is a chance for you to read what one of the kings of the automotive leather trade has to say about proper care for your car seats. Please go to this URL:

www.eagleottawa.com

When you get there, look for the "click", TIPS ON LEATHER CARE. It should be on the middle right side of their home page. Eagle Ottawa, as you remember from our earlier discussions is one of the three giant American automotive leather tanners, and this company certainly played a leading role in developing the technology that gives us the car seats we have today.

Some of your eyes might pop out, per their recommendation to use a 3M Scotch Brite pad to clean your leather. It caught my attention, too.
But please keep in mind that this text was likely put together or reviewed by one of their R&D technologists. If they recommend it, you can be certain that they tested the procedure in their labs extensively, so it must be so. You will note also that they are pushing a set of cleaner and conditioning products called "Tanner's Preserve". Don't be surprised if Eagle Ottawa is a share holder in this company....ha, but that does not mean these are bad products. I am sure they are good ones. Finally, scroll down their
Leather Care page, and look for the heading,
"HOW CAN A CONDITIONER HELP?". I would like to suggest to all you good folks that you can take that advice at Eagle's leather care page as kind of like a final authority. They are the ones making the leather, and subjecting it to expensive, rigorous testing all the time. So if anybody should know the right answer for care, it should be them.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, presuming that the typical American driver will do nothing to care for their leather seats is a pretty good presumption. I think manufacturers made the wise choice there, even if it gives us a type of leather which does not duplicate the richness and softness of the old days.

I was reading an article a few months ago about an ancient Renault that was fished out of an orchard...it had lain outdoors for some decades, and the leather (red Moroccan) actually was restored without replacing it!! Amazing, huh?

darbh

Traderalex: thanks for a thoughtful and well reasoned post. I appreciate your time and the care you put into your informative articles.