Maintenance Costs

mhotujecmhotujec Member Posts: 3
I am considering purchasing a used Audi A4 Quattro
and a friend warned me that parts and repairs are
very expensive on this car. I thought it might be
useful for pepole to post their experiences with
maintenance and repair costs on various vehicles
they've owned to help out others who consider this
before purchasing a vehicle.

My feedback is on my '94 Honda Civic LX. I bought
it used just over a year ago at 33,000 miles. It
is now just over 50,000 miles and has not had any
problems that have needed repairs. I had the
45,000 maintenance done and the front brakes
replaced for a total cost of about $180. Other
than that, nothing but 3,000 mile oil changes.

Does anybody have any feedback about the
maintenance and repair costs for an Audi A4
Quattro?
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Comments

  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    Good topic!
  • mazda323mazda323 Member Posts: 66
    I saw this in an auto parts catalogue: wires for a BMW 4 cyl. (can't remember year or exact model) cost over $400. That was just for the ignition wires! No spark plugs of distributor included. Nice cars but...
  • jazzcatjazzcat Member Posts: 6
    I bought the Maxima used with about 30k miles. One of the main reasons why I bought this car because it was recognized by Consumer Reports as being most reliable in it's class.

    It now has 83k miles, and these are the repairs it's needed:
    - replaced 2 clutches at $800 apiece.
    - a rebuilt transmission at $1100
    - two new driveshaft axles at $700 parts/labor
    - a new master clutch cylinder at $65
    - repair to power window (haven't done this yet)
    - repair to unbind the climate control sliding lever (haven't done this yet, but dealer service rep said they had to tear down major parts of the car to fix it.)

    I will admit that I do enjoy taking the car out to winding back roads and driving fast, but I have been careful not to abuse any mechanical components. I don't slip the clutch and I always wait until the clutch is fully in before shifting.

    I am very discouraged by this car's reliability so far. Needless to say, I will not be buying a Nissan again soon.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    Nissan was good when it was Datsun, but somewhere in the '80s, their quality started going down. The opposite is true of Toyota. The Toyota flame grew brighter just as the Nissan flame began to dim.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Shoulda bought american.......
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    shoulda bought american??? for what? so rather than have a Nissan that required a lot of work you could have a Chevy that required twice as much and have circular rust spots on the doors? Yeah, when I think 1980's automotive quality, America comes immediately to mind. Dodge Omni, Chevy Citation, Ford Tempo, all destined to be automotive greats, as opposed to the Civic and Corolla which will languish in obscurity as junk that never sold. Sorry for the sarcasm, but this kneejerk 'buy American' neanderthal mentality drives me nuts.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Dear Mhotujec,

    Most differences in maintenance costs between cars is related to a) cost of parts, and b) quality of the car, so you need to judge these two factors separately.

    In the Audi Quattro, parts are expensive, but on the positive side the Quattro AWD system is excellent and quite trouble-free. It's a quality German luxury car, not a Honda Civic, so of course it's going to cost more to maintain..it's more complex, the grade of materials is (usually) higher than the less expensive imports, and the production numbers versus a HOnda make parts production costs higher as well.

    Also, costs vary model to model with the same make of car, so it's not a case of "all BMW parts are expensive"--some parts on some models are, and some are not. Here, too, comparative shopping for things like spark plug wires can save you a bundle. Blame Bosch, not BMW, they make these very high quality wires with elaborate connectors that cost a fortune..but they should last well into the car's life. But $400...no, no, don't pay that...you could probably get what you need for much less.

    Of course, you could pay that $1,200 for a Mercedes Gullwing distributor cap...or alternator belts on a Ferrari at $100 apiece (and only 7mm!).
  • hkbryanhkbryan Member Posts: 2
    I have a 95 GTI, and I'm looking at a Civic now.
    I spent over a $1000 bucks last year alone, and that was with a comprehensive extended warranty.
    It's mostly been electrical, nothing mechanical at all. Since VW and Audi share parts you may reconsider. Although, they sure are fun to drive!
  • gchernya1gchernya1 Member Posts: 43
    Greatly depends on the age of Audi. Friend of mine had Audi 86' and virtually no major component
    that not been broken and fixed.
    Brakes - soft pedal
    engine - noisy valves
    steering - hard to turn
    computer - failed
    AC - leaked
    power seats - stop moving
    transmission - car sold as penny trade in
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Old Audis are junk, new ones are swell, big difference as of around 1990.

    Every car has troubles now and then...hang out at the Mercedes dealer for the day and you'll probably see a new one coming in on the hook...even if 99.9% of the parts on your new car were perfect, that leaves about 15 parts that aren't. (if we assume 15,000 parts, which is about right). And even people who claim to have "perfect cars" are probably not noticing little things going wrong that don't effect overall reliability or are totally out of sight....their "15 parts" weren't so critical perhaps.
  • LiseLise Member Posts: 1
    I was told by my mechanic that just to change the oil filter on a Jetta is like $65. Is this true?

    He also said that those quick lube places don't service VW's because they need this special oil filter. I find that hard to believe since there are so many jetta's out there.
  • gchernya1gchernya1 Member Posts: 43
    Why just VW dealers, why not space aliens?
    If those filters that really hard to find and impossible to substitute, you can buy one at VW dealer and then go, change oil elsewhere.
    I don't mind dealers oil changes, but they usually have inconvenient work schedule and tend to overprice labor cost. I wouldn’t go to quick lube places ether, because of quality of work.
    My choice is neighborhood mechanic, whom I can trust, and who open Saturdays and nights. If you well acquitted with one, he might tell you then he can order this famous oil filter for you (and with 20% discount that mechanics use to get for parts they buying from dealers).
  • polyesterpolyester Member Posts: 2
    Over on the Car Talk web site they have feedback from listeners / visitors about maintanence costs on cars.

    One of the conclusions is after a certain number of years, I forget the exact number (7 or 8 I think) costs go down. They go down because some things no longer get fixed. In my case, the costs for my 89 Civic over the past year have been about $250-300 dollars. Of course the A/C needs about $900 worth of work to be functional, so when it gets warm, the windows come down....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So true...my friends are always kidding me about how much I spend on maintenance on my car, and they say that they have "no trouble with mine, and I don't spend 1/5th as much as you do"...and then I DRIVE their cars, and within a block I've mentally made note of about 57 things that need fixing (but, obviously, don't affect the actual running of the automobile). I hear things like "Oh, the passenger electric window...well, I never use that anyway...and one-speed wipers are fine, it doesn't rain hard around here...etc., etc..."
  • gchernya1gchernya1 Member Posts: 43
    Explore junkyard options about engine for a small car. Large cars easily survive accidents and managed to run until the end of useful life of engine. Small cars tend to be whacked in serious accident long before all wear and tear takes their toll, and they good source of strong engines.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    "...most cars don't last because the body rusts out...."

    Perhaps on the East Coast, but not so much on the West Coast or in the Southwest. The West Coast has what seem to be a gazillion older models, all in varying states of repair/disrepair. They don't salt the roads here in the winter (no snow, anyhow), and the seasons aren't so harsh here.

    I'd suggest that consideration be given to a new engine only if the car has been well-maintained over its lifetime, and if the car is generally considered to be a good model. (Example: Volvo 245 with a B21 or B230 engine or Toyota Celica with a 22R engine.)

    Usually these well-maintained cars have had only one or two owners. Stay away from the cars that have had four or five owners. All it takes is one really negligent owner to screw up a car.
  • shawnmaloneshawnmalone Member Posts: 71
    I've been shopping for a Jetta and in consulting with Jetta owners, I'm hearing the same thing you are. Quick-Lube and similar oil change shops don't carry the unusual oil filter. One couple I know takes their Jetta to a dealer for an oil change every six months. They have to leave it there all day and take the courtesy limo to work.
  • rdeschenerdeschene Member Posts: 331
    FYI. I've owned a 1993 Chevy Corsica from the 53000 mile mark (1995) to the current 100 000 mile mark. Excluding scheduled fluid, belt and hose changes I have put Cdn $500 into this car over this period for maintenance. This is with the 3.1L V6 and 3spd (no kidding!) auto transmission and air conditioning.

    The air conditioning did give out last summer, however, so one could add $300-$800 to that figure. I'm saving the money towards an air-conditioned HOUSE, however. And it might prove cheaper to have an aftermarket sunroof put in anyways.
  • gouldngouldn Member Posts: 220
    I like this topic ... let me add my experience:

    Car is a 1993 Audi 90 FWD (2.8 V-6).

    I bought this car used in June of 1996 with 35K, now has 65K.

    Maintenance has been expensive, but I like the way the car drives, so I am OK (so far at least).

    New Catalytic at 50K (car has two, only one failed) Cost: $1000 parts and labor

    Timing, and Serpentine belt replacement at 52K, total cost about $600 (they were not broken, I just decided to replace them early).

    New lens for taillight -- $150

    Water Pump: $200 including installation

    Resistor pack for fan (climate control fan), $200 parts and labor.

    All oil changes can be done at Jiffy Lube without problems.

    The stereo is now starting to fail, but this should be fairly routine ...
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    newport, yes $1300 over 12 months seems like a lot, but compare that to say $3600 over the same amount of time when financing a new car, I'd say $1200 is pretty good. You own the Audi free and clear-no more car payments. Anything is going to have associated repair and maintenence costs. I believe that in the long run, if you like the car, fixing it is a cheaper proposition compared to financing a new car. One way to approach it would be to set aside $300/month that you'd have to pay to purchase a new car and use that money to keep the Audi going. I'd bet you'd have money left at the end of the year and still have a functioning car. Just my two cents.
  • profand1profand1 Member Posts: 1
    Any scoop on Saturns? I am thinking of buying one.
  • df04df04 Member Posts: 1
    To Neon Owners:

    I wish to purchase a 1998 or 1999 Neon for my wife. I hope to get some feedback on performance, reliability, and noise problems from owners. Any advise please?
  • gretelgretel Member Posts: 1
    I've heard and read about all that's wonderful about the new Camaro's, but I'm curious to know what will happen 5-10 years down the line with this car. Can any seasoned Camaro owners please tell me what maintenance and repairs are like? Any frusterations?
  • mazda323mazda323 Member Posts: 66
    You don't buy a Neon for reliability. You buy it (or, preferably lease it) because it's a blast to drive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think those Audi 4000 repair bills are out of line, either...it's an old car, and the itmes you mentioined are "expendables", that is, they go out on just about any car at that age...I always tell people that on older "high-line" European cars...MB, BMW, Audi, etc...expect to pay $100/150 a month to keep it going...same for older Saabs. That's just the reality of it, so really, you're on the lower end of the "real world" numbers on keeping an older Euro sedan going safely and reliably.

    You want trouble-free motoring, then spend that $250 a month or whatever to buy the new Honda...(probably more than that with insurance).

    Neons? I think they're really fun to drive, especially with the larger engine...I wouldn't worry about reliability so much, that's what the warranty is for. Sure, you may be making more trips to the dealer than your neighbor with the Tercel, but you'll be having so much more fun driving. It's not like the Neon is a total dog, or something...it's not a Yugo or a ....well, never mind.
  • rills6rills6 Member Posts: 1
    Based on my experience with an 86 BMW 325, I believe that Mr. Shiftright's $100/150 per month estimate is pretty accurate. I purchased the car for $7K in 1994 when it had 82,000 miles. Over the last 5 years (car now has 164,000 miles), I have averaged $1800/year (or approximately $0.10 per mile) for all maintenence and repair. I use an excellent independent BMW Shop which has performed all the recommended maintenance (tune-ups, fluid changes, timing belts, etc.), and I have gone the DIY route on several minor jobs (window switch, door brake, door handle).

    This car is still a fantastic ride: relatively quiet, solid handling, and extremely reliable. The only roadside problem I've had was a dead alternator 2 years ago. The best part is that the car has reached the bottom of its depreciation curve. As long as I keep it in relatively good condition, it should maintain its meager $2,500 value.

    As I would have to spend over $20K to buy a better new car (not to mention the CA tax, annual 1.5% VLF, and higher insurance), I believe that spending $1,800/year on this car is a great deal.
  • wgussmanwgussman Member Posts: 1
    Is there a report/site that shows the cost of maintenance for various new cars? I am thinking in terms of standard maintenance over the warranty period and its associated costs.
  • ldkusminldkusmin Member Posts: 4
    I've been going over my records, and I've averaged about $1600/year for maintenance and repairs my 1987 Honda Civic wagon over the past 4 years, while putting about 50K miles on it (starting at about 75K, now at about 125K).

    I thought that was awfully high, what with all of the folks in this forum who say things like "I drove 100,000 miles on my car with nothing but oil changes, new tires, a tune-up" and so I've felt a bit disgruntled.

    But now I see where Intellichoice (whoever they are) projects maintenance and repair costs over the *next* 5 years for a 1993 Civic at about $1400-$1600 per year, which seems more in line with my experience to date. I'm curious as to whether there are other folks out there with older Hondas,Toyotas, or other (relatively) reliable makes who've had similar experiences.

    In case you're wondering, at the moment I'm looking at unloading my car before I have to put another $1400 into the exhaust system and the A/C (personally, I don't consider A/C optional in the Washington, DC area). I do expect that interest, depreciation, and other new-car costs would probably be greater than what I'd into my '87 over the next few years--even choosing a low-ownership-cost vehicle, another Honda Civic or maybe a Saturn SW2, I'm pretty sure our total car costs will go up.

    But my wife rebels at the idea of our putting another $1400 at one time into a 12-year-old economy car, and there *is* something to be said for driving a new '99 as opposed to a rattling '87 that's beginning to show signs of rust.
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    You paid $7000 for an '82 Tercel???
  • rdeschenerdeschene Member Posts: 331
    olegphil. The situation you state is essentially the same situation people find themselves in when comparing renting an apartment to buying a house (this varies more than cars, because of regional demographics, etc.). A house or a car REALLY shines financially when you own it outright and just have to pay for maintenance.

    During the period when you are paying for the financed cost of the home or vehicle, it's a dead heat, at best!
  • ralph124cralph124c Member Posts: 36
    I guess I've been lucky-my 1996 SATURN SL just hit 97,000 miles. My to tal repairs and maintainence are less than $500.00. I'm really shocked at how much it costs to keep an exotic european make running-I once had thoughts of buying an A4-glad I did'nt do it!
    I think I'll keep this car till 200K!
  • sam775sam775 Member Posts: 22
    re #31

    Check out Microsoft Carpoint. Go to the personal auto page and enter your make, maodel and year. They give maintenance estimates up to 120 or 150K for most cars, and they give you a decription of the service as well. They will also send you e-mail updates to tell you it's time for maintenence.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    #38> Don't be surprised if there are some big-ticket surprises between now and 200K.
  • dgwrightdgwright Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking at both the Subaru Forester and the Suzuki Grand Vitara. Does anyone have any info on maintenance and repair costs for either of these?
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    Well that is interesting but true, most import cars are coming with very high maintenance cost.
    I drove Honda, Toyota, Subaru, VW, Dodge, Mazda(current one). Honda, VW, Subaru had very expensive parts and labor. Believe or not I did not put any dime on my Dodge. Mazda is a complete problem, I will dump it as quick as possible.
    I have decided to go with domestic, at least parts are very cheap....
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Sherman, unfortunately when you buy used you end up with "someone else's junk." You never know how the car had been taken care of. If I were to own an automatic for a long time, I'd have the fluid changed on regular intervals. I'd also not let my sister drive it, that would add many more miles. Did they show you any maintenance records?

    Parts are expensive for Japanese cars, but in the long run, that somewhat balances with the few hassles the cars give. The Camry SHOULD be more reliable with so few miles on it. Did you have this car inspected before buying it? Maybe next time an inspection could detect problems before you buy.

    Mazda can't even be mentioned in the same sentence with Honda and Toyota as far as reliability goes.
  • ChingCChingC Member Posts: 11
    #44,

    Buying a used car doesn't mean buying with "someone else's junk", if you buy it from reliable sources. I had a good experience buying a used 83 Pont 6000 ste from a friend at 65,000 miles. The car finally died at 210 k miles with reasonable anticipated repairs, battery, tires, cv boots, alternators (life warranty from pep-boy), a/c compressor (life warranty from pep-boy), radiators. The key issue is luck and how previous owner treat it.
  • autoexamsautoexams Member Posts: 4
    i own a company that does used car inspections we are a mobile service. yes you can find a good used car. & yes you can get screwed to the wall when buying a used car. in todays world every body is out to make a buck, they buy totaled car & have titles washed thru different states. then sell the car as if nothing ever happened to it. that is why may compay is in busisness, to help consumers get a good car for the money & find out if the dealer or person selling the car is hiding something. always have a used car inspected before buying. i have seen cars that have been cut in half, on fire & in major accidents. all whick had been repaired & then put into market for resell.
  • sugardogsugardog Member Posts: 41
    I want to share my approach to keeping maint costs under control. I do whatever maint I can myself, this saves money to apply to those things that I cannot do myself.
    Things I can do myself, oil change, brakes, exhaust, plugs, plug wires, filters, etc. Things I can't do, cv boots, alignment, air conditioning, timing belt, etc. The total cost evens out nicely over several years.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Exhaust? Do you have a lift? How much room do you have to get in there and cut off the original exhaust? Do you use a blowtorch?

    guitarzan
    Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • carrnuttcarrnutt Member Posts: 1
    I'm posting a question before I purchase a new car. I am thinking about a new (99 or 00) 300M. Does anyone have any thing to say about the reliability of this car? I have heard that many Chryslers are sub par in this catagory. What do you think? Do you have any first hand knowledge?

    Thanks, Carrnutt
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Don't do it!! They do look good, but that's it!

    Also, the resale on these has been terrible!
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    $17,000 seems awfully steep for a nearly 5 year old 318. I would think you could almost get last years 323 for that kind of money. German cars are definitely pricier to repair than a chevy, but i think(personal opinion) that a bmw's components are more durable and of a higher quality and thus will last longer than an american car.
  • dhaxtondhaxton Member Posts: 16
    According to http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Used/BMW/3-Series $17K (including financing over 4 yrs.) is not too bad. Personally, I'd pick up a Civic instead and spend the saved purchase and maintenance costs on something really exotic like, oh Microsoft or Cisco stock maybe :-)
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    Is that Jetta have the turbo4(nondiesel). Surprises me that if it is the turbo 4 like the audi a4, that it would seem overly sluggish esp. with the manual tran. i think that puts out 150hp as opposed to less than 140(i think) for the bmw. personally, i think the civic would be a good choice. certainly not the same panache and image as even a 5 year old bmw, but definitely a good car. probably a lot of aftermarket performance add-ons available for the honda as well.
  • andrey2andrey2 Member Posts: 5
    I drove Civic EX - very nice car, transmission is much smoother and quieter than that of Jetta. Road handling is super, road noise is prominent at high speeds though. Local dealer has only 2000 Exs - so no Honda 6.5% financing, no discounts - with MSRP of 16,200 take it or leave it. Plus for 2001 it will be redesigned - and they promise more power, cleaner and more economical engine. It's like those who bought 98'Jetta - now they all are jealous. I don't know if 1.8 L. turbo gasoline engine goes into Jetta. That's a base engine for A4 and also for Passats. But engine choices for Europeian Jettas are impressive - new 125 bhp 4 cyl., new VR 5 - 170 bhp., and new VR 6 - 204 bhp. I think some of them will make their way to the States sometime soon. I expected at least new 4 cyl. in 2000 models - but no.
    I am bying that 318 ti - and I got BMW financing with 6.9% APR - unimaginable for any other almost 5 years old car. It's lower than for the brand new Honda. That's their program for "certified pre-owned". You can get even 2.9 % if you're buying 96-97 7-series. But it's not financing that appeals(very competitive rates I would say) - it's that driving pleasure that those cars give you every time you turn the key. Drive safely and stay cool.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    you made the right decision... for the right reason as well...
    and there are tons of performance add ons for it if you want to go that way.
    good luck with your bimmer, you are gonna love it...
  • andrey2andrey2 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for wishing me luck, I think I am going to need it for at least next 4-5 years. Good luck to you too. My wife says that it's so small. And I say," but you can put a 17" computer monitor in that hatchback - no such luck with Camry or Accord. Now which car is bigger?"
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    do the scheduled maintenance, fix stuff when it breaks, and you won't need luck. they are tough little buggers. check out the www.bimmer.org board for tips and humor.
    yea, i know the "it looks small" theory... but it's bigger on the inside than it looks...
  • smithd7smithd7 Member Posts: 1
    I am looking to purchase a 95 BMW 540i. The car has about 60K on it. Is there a big service due on this car? On an annual basis, how much do you spend on service?
This discussion has been closed.