Taurus/Sable Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • cwesleycwesley Member Posts: 55
    I was able to replicate the problem this morning with the diagnostic equipment attached. The tech at the dealership downloaded the info and later left a message that he had identified the source of the problem. The part is on order and should be here Monday. I'll post as soon as I get the details.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Let us know. I'm guessing coolant temp sensor or air intake temp sensor.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Hi,

    I have a 99 Taurus SE with 60K miles. Does this car have a timing belt or timing chain? And what mileage do I need to change the timing belt at? Thank you.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    A chain.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Taurus in all versions has always had timing chains, which rarely if ever give trouble, unlike certain unnamed foreign nameplates, who are beginning to wake up and switch over to chain drives themselves.
  • adjuster2adjuster2 Member Posts: 5
    SROC, IF YOU GET A DIAGNOSIS ON THE SQUEAK, LET ME KNOW, I HAVE TALKED TO SEVERAL TECHNICIANS WHO THINK IT IS A VALVE LIFTER THAT ISN'T SENDING OIL TO THE ROCKER ARM, OR BAD OIL PUMP. MINE ONLY DOES IT EVERY 2-3 WEEKS AT IDLE.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    I also received this notice from Ford on my 2000 Mercury Sable LS. The warranty extension adds an additional 2 years/24000 miles on a specific part, the "Tube mounted EGR Pressure Sensor" which is a part in the cars emission control system. The warranty is listed as program number 02M01 and the sensor part number is 9J460.

    Yesterday the "Check engine light" came on and stayed on, and later I began to smell a rather strong gasoline odor inside of the wagon. I checked the owners manual and said something about bad gas, gas mixed with water and the gas cap not being properly closed. I didn't experience any hesitation or stalling yet.
       
    Has anyone here experienced the same symptoms in their Sable/Taurus?
  • ijennings1ijennings1 Member Posts: 67
    It might be worth running your engine on a good quality fully synthetic oil. This will ensure thata all parts are reached as quickly as possible, especially at warm up.
    When living in the U.K, I had a British Ford with hydraulic tappets. One was always "clicking" for about 3 miles as it would not retain the oil when switching off the engine. It was stuck and took ages to free and release.Synthetic oil cured it straightaway.

    Good luck anyway

    Ian
  • phantom9phantom9 Member Posts: 3
    My wife cranked our 2000 Taurus about a week ago and heard a loud explosion. (Wouldn't you know I was out of town.) Upon checking, we found holes and cracks in the Plenum (large, hard plastic piece on top of the engine). The dealer replaced the Plenum, the Idle Control Valve and the EGR solenoid.

    They said they had not heard of that happening before. Wonder if anyone has had the same problem. The repair bill was $1,119. Luckily, we had the Extended Warranty. Up till now we have been pretty happy with the car. By the way it's got just under 50K on it.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    The plenum's were recalled due to your problem. I don't remember when or what model years were covered. If you do a search on NHTSA, you should find the recall number there.

    They may have not heard of that happening before, but Ford certainly has!
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    you should'nt have had to use your warranty for the repair bill
  • phantom9phantom9 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the information. I suspected as much. I haven't had any luck at NHTSA as yet. I was not impressed with my dealer's service department!! My only contact with them earlier was just oil change, etc.
  • phantom9phantom9 Member Posts: 3
    It certainly is beginning to look that way. Wonder who I should contact next? Thanks for your "input".
  • driverberndriverbern Member Posts: 23
    I have a 1996 Taurus that I bought new. It has 143000 mi on it. It is currently in the shop because the cooling system is filled with a gunk that looks like driveway sealer. It's almost tar like.
    There was a factory recall that was performed in 1998 on my car for a cooling system problem. I called the dealer yesterday and inquired as to what the reason for that recall was. He said that the coolant was taking on a "chocolate milk" like appearance and was corroding some of the internal parts. On my old bill I see they replaced two freeze plugs, flushed the system and installed some kind of bypass hose. He said they never figured out exactly what the cause was but one scenario was that machine chips were left in the engine during manufacture.
    At any rate, my mechanic says he never saw anything like this gunk coming out of my engine.
    He is replacing many, many parts.
    My thoughts are that the dealer never performed the recall(although the bill says he did) or did not properly flush all of the original gunk out back in 1998. I had 101000 miles on it then so maybe it was too late?
    Does anyone have any idea what this might be or have a similar experience?
  • wijocowijoco Member Posts: 462
    Hello, driverbern. Four years is really too long to go without flushing your cooling system. A certain amount of sludge is not unusual after that long time. You really should flush and replace your coolant every two years/25000 miles or sooner, especially with an engine of your advancing age. A few things to keep in mind: DONT mix the red and green coolants, they will form sludge (your Taurus should have been filled with green coolant from the factory, so keep replacing with the green); use approximately a 50/50 ratio, using too much water or coolant can cause early corrosion or overheating; if you use a radiator/cooling system preservative stick with the quality name brands like Bar's Leaks or the manufacturer's product; keep an eye out for early signs of cooling system trouble like early morning warm-up temperature spikes which can signal failure of intake or head gaskets, overheating while idling in hot weather which can point to a plugged radiator or failing thermostat, or an interior heating system gradually losing its heat, which can be a plugged heater core. Many of these expensive repairs can be avoided by doing an annual or biannual cooling flush n' fill, though. This will remove the old coolant before it breaks down into the sludgy substance and eats up your engine. Good luck.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I have read in other boards that the long life antifreeze GM has used in recent years (Dexcool brand name?) that was supposed to be 100,000 mile coolant has not lived up to its billing and tends to gel up and also may cause other corrosion or seal/gasket issues. Anybody know this is a fact?

    Is there a chance you got that brand one time when you got a flush and fill?

    I would stay away from it and go with the conventional stuff. I tend to do a flush and fill every three years or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    I just want to report a follow up on my previous post regarding the "check engine light" on my Sable's instrument panel. It was on for 3 days, and just before I filled the tank the light disappeared. It never returned so far. I got really worried for a while.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    I have a 96 Sable LS with the 24V engine. Driving on the highway yesterday and the engine became a pile of junk. It's dead and dealer says it needs to be replaced. Cost exceeds value of car. Any problems with this engine? Car is out of warranty but does Ford do anything to help in these situations?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Not likely with an almost 8 year old car. How many miles on it?
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Alcan: Engine had about 60k on it. Bought in 1998 wiht about 30k. Kept it up pretty well with oil changes every 3-5K miles.
  • mpaulmpaul Member Posts: 9
    I have a 1987 Taurus with 140,000 miles on a rebuilt engine. Have had more than my fair share of trouble with this car, but in all fairness it has been running fairly well for the past year or so.

    Anyway,it tends to idle at a really high rate when warmed up, and I was hoping someone could tell me which sensor or module is involved in controlling the idle and where it is located on the engine (3.0 liter v6).

    I am at the point where all parts required for this vehicle come from the auto wreckers and I do all the work myself, appreciate very much any help you can provide.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    It came back on my Merc Sable's instrument panel.
    This wagon is beginning to annoy me. Every month for the past year it visited the shop with problems.

    Maybe I boasted too much about Ford's making a good product.
  • halsey1halsey1 Member Posts: 3
    Which transaxle is in a 2000 Sable GS with the Vulcan V6?
     The car was bought used and did not have a maintenance guide. I downloaded one from Ford but it covers all FoMoCO vehicles.
     What I am looking to determine if this is one of the vehicles that is supposed to have the trans fluid exchanged at 30,000 miles. The maint. guide lists 4 transaxles that should - but not what cars/ truck they are in.
     Local dealer has a 12 page list of recommended services at 30k - and $800 to do it. Trans fluid exchage is on that list, but I think they are just trying to milk a lot of money out of people.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    One of the engineers who was on the transmission team for both the Taurus/Sable and Lincoln LS said that if you want to have your tranny last a long time, flush (not just change) the fluid every 30K miles. My LS takes Mercon V and it is expensive! The "normal" fluid flush at my dealer is $125. With the Mercon V, it's $225!
  • ehennessehenness Member Posts: 92
    The Sable and Taurus use the AX4N (also known as the 4F50N) and AX4S transaxles. If you have the Duratech DOHC 3.0, you should have the AX4N. If you have the Vulcan OHV 3.0, you can have either transaxle, but are likely to have the AX4S.

    I believe a fluid change is required for either at 30,000 mile intervals. On my '98 it is (I have the AX4N). I believe all Sable and Taurus models use Mercon V fluid beginning with the '97s or '98s. That fluid is not the same as plain Mercon.

    It's cheap insurance to keep the car running well to change trans fluid at regular intervals, even if it's not required. I think in your case that it is required.

    Note that there are two ways of changing the fluid. One is to disconnect the fluid line at the radiator and run the engine. The internal pump will pump all of the fluid out (you keep filling the transaxle and stop when it comes out clean). This changes all the fluid, but unless the pan is dropped (letting all the fluid out) you cannot change the filter.

    The other way is to drop the pan, change the filter and replace the fluid that comes out. There will still be some fluid in the torque converter that won't come out this way (the pump will pump it out in the other method).

    The best way is to change both the filter and all the fluid (drop the pan, change filter, refill, then pump out the stuff to flush the converter). However, if you change the fluid regularly, the amount left in the converter won't be that bad to leave in. To me it's best to get the old filter out of there.

    See what the dealer does. It sounds like they use the pump-out method if they call it a fluid exchange.

    On the Taurus/Sable, the 30K service also includes replacement of the air filter, the passenger compartment filter, fuel filter (on some years), tire rotation, oil change and filter, and inspections and latch lube. There are a fair number of parts to replace. I do think $800 is excessive though. I think my dealer charges around $300-$350 for this service (and they replace the trans pan gasket and filter in the tranny service).

    Bring a list out of the maintenance guide and ask that they do ONLY what's on it. It sounds like they have a lot of other stuff in there besides what Ford requires.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I agree with ehenness. Sounds like the dealer is trying to pack your service with many unnecessary extras. I would go strictly by what is required in your manual.

    Also, you can save some bucks by doing some things yourself. Changing the air filter is a piece of cake, at least on my 2000 Duratec and you can buy one inexpensively at any auto parts store.

    I have not changed the cabin air filter yet, but if I remember correctly, my manual has pretty detailed instructions.

    I also change my own oil and filters. By watching sales for oil and oil filter, my change cost always works out to less than $9.
    You may not want to do this yourself, but it isn't hard, and I dispose of my oil properly at our city recycling facility.

    I have not investigated the fuel filter change yet, but it was a bit of a bear on my old 1990 Taurus and if it is set up the same on my new one, I would let someone else do it.

    Otherwise, there is almost nothing to touch. Spark plugs are platinum and do not need changing until 100K miles, I believe. As far as tuneups go, as long as your car starts well, runs well, accelerates the same and mileage does not drop off, there is little service required.
  • jdiaz2jdiaz2 Member Posts: 16
    The fuel filter change on my 2000 Duratec wagon was very simple.....getting under the car was the hardest part!! The filter lives under the right rear passenger door, and is held on with a single hose clamp. Remove the two plastic snaps on the fuel lines, put the new filter in, put the snaps back in, and tighten the clamp. Literally a ten-minute job start to finish.

    Jon
  • mpaulmpaul Member Posts: 9
    First time I changed the fuel filter on my 87,
    I received a big blast of fuel in my face and eyes...OUCH
    I didn't realize the system would maintain
    pressure after the engine had been shut down for several hours.
    A hard earned lesson, but I won't forget!!
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The location on your 2000 wagon sounds like the same place as it was on my 1990 sedan, so it sounds like the setup may be about the same. I knew about the fuel system pressure, so I let it sit quite a while, however I still had to cope with the gas running out of the lines when disconnected, so it would have been nice to have a couple extra hands to keep the lines plugged when the filter was removed while you make the switch.
  • jdiaz2jdiaz2 Member Posts: 16
    I didn't have any issues with fuel coming out under pressure, but if bleed-down is a worry, just remove the fuel pump fuse while the car is idling to run it out of gas before performing the operation.

    And for fuel running out of the lines, I just use an old 13x9 cake baking pan to catch the gas. Then dump the gas in the lawnmower. :)

    Jon
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Took car to dealer's svce. shop on March 11. Had the DPFE sensor replaced.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    zeen, what was the verdict??
  • jackyznjackyzn Member Posts: 5
    I had a problem with my 96' Sable on the "Check Engine" light. The dealer I went to charged me over $500 to do a tune up, changing my spark plugs & wires and several parts. Then several days ago I went to do the annual check. They said my car need a replacement of the transmission pin to pass the inspection. Also they said I need to change the oil gasket, totally more than $500 again. Is this price reasonable? Also, since I am not good at car machanics, could anyone explain to under what situation, the spark plug, the transmission pin and the oil gasket should be replaced? Thanks a lot
  • jackyznjackyzn Member Posts: 5
    I had a problem with my 96' Sable on the "Check Engine" light. The dealer I went to charged me over $500 to do a tune up, changing my spark plugs & wires and several parts. Then several days ago I went to do the annual check. They said my car need a replacement of the transmission pin to pass the inspection. Also they said I need to change the oil gasket, totally more than $500 again. Is this price reasonable? Also, since I am not good at car machanics, could anyone explain to under what situation, the spark plug, the transmission pin and the oil gasket should be replaced? Thanks a lot
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    How many miles do you have on your '96 Sable?

    Original equipment platinum spark plugs are good to 100K miles. Other things like plug wires could go wrong at high mileage but are pretty infrequent these days. I suggest you go to one or two independent garages and get a second opinion. Do you have any oil leakage? If not then you may not need any gaskets. What "oil gasket" are they talking about? The oil pan gasket, valve cover gaskets or what? If you do not know much about maintenance, you are likely to get ripped off on service, thus I would definitely get more than one opinion before spending more on the car.
  • jackyznjackyzn Member Posts: 5
    Thanks a lot. My car is 61K only, that was why I was surprised the dealer technician told me the spark plugs and wires need to be changed. I did not see any oil leakage by checking the engine oil from time to time. Also there is no oil spot on the floor where I park my car. The dealer was saying I need to replace the oil pan gasket. The fact is that I don't know much about car mechanics. So could you recommend some website I could get some idea on these issues? I am looking for some materials that can explain the glossary and function in graphics.
  • miagarfuncklemiagarfunckle Member Posts: 51
    I have an 89 Taurus with 61k and it has so far contrary to popular belief been a good car. My problem is that when you turn the a/c on you have to move a dial and if the temperature is less then around 50 degrees or so outside then your a/c comes on automatically on the Mix and Defrost modes and I want to know if there is any way of tricking the computer so that the a/c only comes on when you want it to. The a/c does defrost well as it is supposed to but it robs too much power and mileage.
    *
    Also does anybody else out there only average between 18-20 mpg in city driving with their 89 or older Taurus.
    Thanks for your help.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I do not know of any specific web sites for your needs. If you have the original operators manual, you should generally follow that as far as maintenance goes. There are also commercially available service manuals you can buy for specific vehicles at auto parts stores.

    Best bet for you is likely to find a service shop you can trust. Check with friends and coworkers is likely your best bet in that regard.

    I would not worry about gasket changes if you are not using or losing oil between changes.

    As far as tuneups go, with most cars these days there really is little to tune up. As long as your car starts OK, runs smooth and accelerates OK and mileage is OK, I wouldn't worry about going in for a tuneup until you get to 100K. New air filters are advised every 30K minimum and are usually easy to change yourself and you likely could use a new fuel filter by now also.

    I would suggest you get a transmission oil and filter change, however, if this has not been done to date. Use an independent shop specicalizing in transmission service and then have them check out the rest of the transmission as well including the "pin" which I assume is the pin that locks the transmission into the park position. If your car goes into park position OK and does not roll downhill more than a few inches on a slope when in park, then I doubt if you have any transmission "pin" problems either.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    It is setup that way to dehumidify the air so it defrosts the windshield more effectively-first dehumidify the air using the AC and then reheating it to blow dry warm air on the windshield. If you want just fresh air, then set the control to "vent" and AC won't run. AC does not really penalize mileage much, and most are set up to temporarily disengage the compressor upon hard acceleration, so it shouldn't affect your performance when needed.

    Your city mileage of 18-20 sounds about right, based on what my 90 Taurus with 3.0 Vulcan V-6 did. I generally got about 20-21 city (partially freeway speeds however) and best of about 28 strictly highway
  • miagarfuncklemiagarfunckle Member Posts: 51
    I have an 89 Taurus with 61k and it has so far contrary to popular belief been a good car. My problem is that when you turn the a/c on you have to move a dial and if the temperature is less then around 50 degrees or so outside then your a/c comes on automatically on the Mix and Defrost modes and I want to know if there is any way of tricking the computer so that the a/c only comes on when you want it to. The a/c does defrost well as it is supposed to but it robs too much power and mileage.
    *
    Also does anybody else out there only average between 18-20 mpg in city driving with their 89 or older Taurus.
    Thanks for your help.
  • miagarfuncklemiagarfunckle Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the response, however the a/c does rob a lot of power and mileage. The a/c in every car puts more load on the engine then others but still drops mileage from 1-4mpg or so and also slows the car down. previous posts stated ways of re-wiring to make the a/c only work in a/c mode. I can defrost the windows without a/c and it is fine in every other car. Hopefully somebody who knows how to re-wire will read this and help. My mileage is actually 19-21 not 18-20 so I am not doing that bad.
    Thanks for the help
  • jackyznjackyzn Member Posts: 5
    thank you
    One more strange thing is after the dealer tuned up my car. My millage dropped from 16 MPG local to 14 MPG. I was expecting an increase of millage after tune-up. I think this dealer is really ripping me.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I think badgerfan gave you good advice except one thing: get a new dealer. They see you coming and open up the cash drawer. I'm sure there is some oil seeping around the oil pan gasket area, but that is true of almost every car with 60k miles. They are looking for the slightest justification to get you in for service. An oil pan gasket needs changing when you are dripping significant amounts of oil in your parking spot and not before. The plugs and wires are very dubious at only 60k.

    I would ask female friends for recommendations on a small independent shop where you can get to know the people. Then only take it to the dealer when specialized diagnostics or procedures are required, and then to a different dealer.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I would like to make a similar mod to my car but only so I can run heat from the dash and on my feet at the same time without the AC kicking on. For defrost the AC makes an enormous difference. Also it's wise to run the compressor regularly to keep the seals in good shape.

    The easiest way to stop the compressor from turning on is to put a switch in the wire going to the clutch. It would be nicer to find the correct wire under the dash but that would probably require a manual.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I agree 100% Jackyzn should dump that dealer completely and try a different one or beter yet, indepentant shops, as they are usually less expensive. The trick is finding a reputable one.
    Unless you live in a remote area, there are plenty of Ford dealers around if you want to stay at a Ford dealer. I generally avoid dealerships as much as possible, only using them if I have warranty work or recalls.
  • jackyznjackyzn Member Posts: 5
    On my way to check my car in other shop this weekend
  • johnk324johnk324 Member Posts: 6
    Check engine light is on. My code reader reports, "EGR valve position circuit below min. voltage." I don't know which to change, the EGR or sensor that sits on top. Did anyone have this problem or can tell me which to look at first. The EGR goes for around $50 and the sensor goes for around $50. Don't feel like wasting $50.
    1993 Ford Taurus, 3.8L
  • strokeoluckstrokeoluck Member Posts: 99
    Jackyzn, I'm not sure whether anyone addressed your specific concern re: the high cost of your tune-up. My 2000 Taurus has 102,000 miles and I just had it in for a tune-up a month ago (first one). The small shop I take it to charged me ~$150 including tune-up and fuel & pvc filter (these guys are great). However they charged me $400 to do a tune-up on my '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager because, in my mechanic's words, "some d*mn idiot buried half the plugs under the engine and it takes us three hours to get at them!" I don't recall how your '96 is set up but, having owned a '96 Taurus, I don't recall that any of the plugs were "buried"...I thought they were all readily accessible. And if that's the case then $500 sounds way high.

    One easy way to check this is to call around and ask other shops what they'd charge for a tune-up on your car. The reputable shops should all be within 10-20% of each other I'd think. As for the oil leak I agree w/the others. Don't fret anything unless you see oil on your garage floor.

    Find that good mechanic shop NOW so you won't worry later.

    Good luck,
    Rob

    P.S. By the way, if you DO find that other shops charge SIGNIFICANTLY less than $500 to do a standard tune-up I'd take your receipt back to the dealer that performed the work and demand some sort of refund/credit (you could at least trust them to do oil changes, replace wiper blades, etc...of course I'd WATCH them while they did it!). :-) If they refuse to help you ask them if they can hand you the phone book so you can look up the local a) chamber of commerce b) better business bureau c) Ford regional service rep. d) state attorney general's office, etc.
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    Voyager or dodge cost 400 to do plugs very interesting I did the same tuneup on a 95 voyager with the same motor you're mechanic should've assesed the situation a little more he would have found out that there is an easier way to change those plugs, this is what I did you need to take off teh air cleaner assemble and braket to get the plugs in the rear near the firewall you need to use a long spark plug socket sold at pepboys for $5.00 dollars. I was able to remove replace and torque the plugs in the rear near the fire wall in 20min.
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    the platinum spark plug is not entirely true for a plug to go that far without degradation of both electrodes would have to be an iridium plug, if the plugs are not removed every 60k or so the have a tendency to be extremely difficult to remove particularly if they are in an aluminum head, given the expansion of the head due to heat and cold, moisture also sets in and starts to errode the threads. 60k is probably the maximum a platinum will operate optimumly, a change out should really occur at 40k I've seen ac delco plugs rated for 5yrs or 60k and at the 5yr mark the gap exceeded the original specification by 4x, coupled the mileage on the plug was at 40k

    Additionally removing plugs on motors where they are close to the firewall can be challenging due in part one has to remove the wishbone engine support and wrap a hold down strap with a racheting mechanism onto the motor and front bumper to pull the motor forward in order to access these plugs and replace them thereby esculating the cost factor.
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