Volkswagen Beetle Steering and Suspension Problems

kapital

I am rebuilding a '68 beetle for a "kit-car".

I have removed, checked and replaced the rear transaxles. I have also checked the spring plate angle. With full load on the rear axles, the rear wheels are still at an extreme angle. Any suggestions on obtaining the proper wheel alignment would be greatly appreciated.

larsen

I'm looking for a car with great gas mileage. We're comparing the 2006 Scion XA with the 2007 Toyota Yaris.

We'll want the automatic. Haven't tested either. Like that the Yaris has the Cruise Control option, but the XA is available now and has been on sale for a few years. Otherwise, both seem about the same in terms of price, approx. mpg., safety, etc.

What would you choose?

Also, approximately how many miles do Toyota engines get before they die? (100k? 200k? 300K?)

Thanks!

tundradude

Not sure if this needs a new forum, but I am assuming you are comparing the Yaris hatchback (not the sedan) to the xA.

First: They have the same engine, but the Yaris will get better gas mileage (around 5-8 mpg) because of the higher gearing.

Second: You will get more standard equipment in the Scion, but that is not to say that you cannot get most of it as mostly being optional on the Yaris.

Third: The xA is larger (about 5 inches). However, the Yaris has a reclining back seat. I have sat in the rear seat of a xA, and its SMALL.

Fourth: Both cars have center guages. Only the xA has the buttons on the steering wheel for the radio.

Fifth: This is matter of opinion, but the Yaris is more attractive.

Sixth: Scion gives you 3 free oil changes.

Seventh: The Scion will have a rougher ride than the Yaris. However, the Scion handles great especially with the front strut tie bar.

Eighth: The Scion is sold at MSRP only. You should be able to dicker on the price on the Yaris even though it won't be much.

I have not driven or seen a yaris in public, but I drove a regular xA and a 1.0 xA. However, I have read a lot about a Yaris and I give advice based on what I have read. I currently own a xB.

In conclusion, the Scion comes with more stuff, its very comfortable, but its not as attractive or does not get the gas mileage of the Yaris. I believe saftey is nill, meaning they are both safe for that size car. Any Scion or Yaris will be on the wrong end with a Suburban.

Toyota engines (with few exceptions like 99 Corollas I hear) last forever if you take care of them. My 95 Corolla has 184,000 on it now. I expect to get at least 300K before I sell it.

I would choose the Yaris because the extra gas mileage (to me) is more attractive because I live in a state that has higher gas prices than all the states around it. It comes down to what is more important. A better handling, more power, more features, cool radio, and I would guess a cheaper price (comparing apples to apples or features to features)is the Scion. While the Yaris is better styled, gets better gas mileage, can be cheaper (if options are carefully chosen), rides softer, and you can be the first one on your block to have it.

Personally, if it was me, I would get a Yaris S Sedan before either the xA or the Yaris HB just because its more practical. Having said that, I am leaving my xB out of the discussion since it wasn't listed.

cherp

Liked your comparsions between the Yaris and xA. Your impressions of the Yaris sedan vs. xB.

larsen

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts.

We'd be more interested in the sedan rather than the coupe.

We testdrove the XA over the weekend. It was a nice ride, but we had an awkward experience. (We were kept waiting over an hour, then told that the XA falls apart on the highway at speeds of 70 mph. What? Is that even true?)

I guess we thought no haggle price also meant attentive customer service. We're a little soured on the car buying experience, so are going to wait until Feb./March to testdrive the Yaris.

Thanks!

tundradude

Before I start, all Yaris Sedan experience is from reading and pictures.

First: Same engine, but the Yaris is still more efficient because of the lower gearing in the xB.

Second: The xB not only comes standard with all the power stuff, radio, tach, but it comes with ABS and traction control. With the exception of the latter, the Yaris has it as a option.

Third: The Yaris sedan is 14 inches longer than the xB. Therefore, you get a real trunk in the Yaris. You can keep your stuff hidden from view. The xB's trunk is all vertical in cargo capacity. However, if you lower (the standard) rear seats, there is lots of room for about anything you would normally carry. The Yaris sedan has optional 60/40 rear seats for additonal space. You could put a huge TV in the xB, but not the Yaris. Otherwise, its a tradeoff.

Fourth: Both have center guages. The xB single tri-guage is left of center and it is angled toward the driver. I have had no problems of having to change my eyes to see it, like you would in the Yaris or xA.

Fifth: Both are attractive cars. The xB is screaming "I am a box". Its kind of like a old VW thing. EIther you like it of hate it. The Yaris Sedan is an attractive little car, but it does look like a smaller 2006 Camry. Look at the new Camry pictures.

Sixth: Scion still gives 3 free oil changes.

Seventh: The xB will still ride tougher than the Yaris. Having said that, the xB rides higher than the xA, so there is no equal comparison there. The xB is much better riding than the xA. I still believe the Yaris sedan will be smoother, expecially being 14 inches longer.

Eighth: The Scion is MSRP. You can dicker on the Yaris. If you option the Yaris up to the Scion, I would believe that the Yaris would be moe expensive before haggling. However, the Yaris starts out about $1000 (estimated)(S model) cheaper. The other two would probably be around $2000.

Ninth: AC is standard on both.

Tenth: The seats in the xB are extremely comfortable. The back seats are just huge, bigger than an Avalon. The rear center is also flat for extra seating. Even though the Yaris is 14 inches longer, I belive the front seat room would be around the same, with an advantage for the rear to the xB.

Eleventh: Performance would go the xB for about a second to 60 mainly attributed to the lower gearing. Both cars should not race a Celica. LOL

Final Decison: The new Yaris sedan is quite impressive. I believe its a very attractive car (especially the S). This car is only 3 inches shorter than my 95 Corolla. I believe that the Yaris Sedan is the more practical of the two. The xB is a great commuter car and it the rear seat is huge. If you have tall friends, they will love the xB. The xB also comes with lots of standard stuff. I personally added 838.00 worth of options to my xB which included fog lights and the front strut tie bar that makes handling way above the Yaris. The biggest tradeoff is the cargo area or the rear seat room. The xB, even though not as practical as the Yaris, is for 9/10 of all situations. I would rather have a Yaris for a trip to Disney.

Since I already own a 95 Corolla for my trip car, I chose the xB. However, if this would be my only car, I would pick the Yaris Sedan for the long run because its more practical plus it does (supposed to) get 5 more mpg. Although, if heavy trips are usually not done, it would come down to the real trunk in the Yaris vs the back seat in the xB. This would come down to personal preference.

tundradude

Honestly, between these two, its Yaris Sedan.


"We testdrove the XA over the weekend. It was a nice ride, but we had an awkward experience. (We were kept waiting over an hour, then told that the XA falls apart on the highway at speeds of 70 mph. What? Is that even true?)"

Both the xA and the XB will accelerate until you run out of 103. I know from experience that 80 comes up quicker than you would expect (like getting on the interstate). I would expect that the Yaris (sedan or HB) would be more sluggish.

"I guess we thought no haggle price also meant attentive customer service. We're a little soured on the car buying experience, so are going to wait until Feb./March to testdrive the Yaris."

Unfortunately, there is some real crappy Toyota dealers out there. When Lexus was started, you went to its own dealership and they Toyota decided that those customers should be treated like humans. Lexus has had wonderful customer service in the past almost 16 years. Since Scion is added to the existing Toyota dealers, it is hit and miss. There were supposed to be Scion only salesman at each of the selected Toyota dealerships that can carry Scion. However, as time passed, anyone will show you the Scions. When I test drove a Scion at one local dealership, the car salesman turned off the engine while I was driving to show that the car would not lock up. Needless to say, I went somewhere else to buy my xB. Hopefully, if its a Yaris Sedan, you want, you can find a decent Toyota/Scion dealership in a close proximity.

Don't forget, just because the sales department are jerks, that doesn't mean that the same service department won't be extremely nice to deal with. Its kinda like the right brain not communciating with the left brain.

tundradude

One to add, the xA and the 2006.5 xB has steering wheel controls for the radio.

Mr_Shiftright

I drive 75-80 mph in a Scion xA all the time. It's a little loud but not bad at all, and with the stereo on you don't even notice. So no, that statement is totally untrue. Don't expect 38 mpg at 80 mph though in either an xA or a Yaris.

nippononly

on a Yaris liftback with just the convenience package is $12,300 in a manual, and I guess about $13,100 in an automatic. Sounds like it is close to your price criteria.

There is a $700 gap between invoice and MSRP on the Yaris, according to Consumer Guide.

An xA manual shift with no options is $13,300 in the stick. I would say if you want the power package, then it's a wash between the two, pricewise. These two drive pretty similarly. So it would come down to whether you want 3 doors or 5, what you think of the looks, and how much you value the Toyota badge vs the Scion one.

Oh yeah, it's not totally apples to apples, because the Scion's stereo is better and it has ABS at that price, whereas the Yaris has slightly better fuel economy and a sliding/reclining rear seat at that price. And the Scion has a TACH!!!!!!!

cdoc

Does anyone know why the Yaris isn't offered as a 5-door (4 door + liftback) here? It's available in Europe and Canada, and probably everywhere else. Could it be so that it doesn't compete with the xA, which is available only in the US?

nippononly

Bingo! You hit it right on the head. Too much in-fighting if they try to sell a 5-door Yaris at the same dealership as the xA.

Besides, Toyota is the sedan-and-truck company. Of all the Yarii brought to the U.S., only 20% will be the hatch, while 80% will be the sedan.

cdoc

Yarii. I love it.
I'm looking forward to testdriving a Yaris and a Honda Fit, but I'll be going into it biased. I love my new xA.

wakster

I have been having a hard time looking for a Yaris Liftback, here in the Allentown, PA area, they only have sedans, and that already cost 1400+.
I'm now thinking of going with the Scion xA, they are the same engine right? why the difference in mileage though, I drive 80 miles 1 way so these 2 are my only choices right now, and my budget only allows me to go with xA or the liftback.

I need your help in finding a 3 door Yaris in the NY/NJ/PA area, or xA it is.

rxb

If you're willing to wait a couple months you should be able to find a dealer who will find or order a liftback for you - but probably not with a manual shift. I was thinking of an Xa, but I'm holding out for a Yaris because it sounds like the ride and handling are better (though I'm curious if anyone here can verify that), the space configuration inside is more flexible, and I prefer the way it looks. Also considering what it means, it sounds weird to say "I drive a Scion". Good luck.

mackabee

Considering Scion means "a descendant of" you should be proud to say you drive one.


Mackabee

brucepadgett

I tested the Xa and both the sedan and liftback Yaris models, and found the Xa had a demonstrably superior ride and handling. The Yaris liftback had an especially bumpy ride to me. The Xa turned corners beautifully, and was rather peppy on acceleration. In fact, the ride was far more pleasant than my 2006 Corolla, which I have found tediously rough. I am close to trading it in for the Xa.

reddroverr

micweb seems to think that the 2007 xa might be styled as the yaris, I assume it woud have the scion features you like still intact. you might want to wait for that and check it out. you can always get a 2006 at that time if you want...might even get a discount despite the no haggle policy.

ouch, trading in so fast takes the economy out of economy cars...unless the famous toyota resale value comes through in spades.

kato1

In fact, the ride was far more pleasant than my 2006 Corolla, which I have found tediously rough. I am close to trading it in for the Xa.

hmmm, thats interesting. my buddy from chitown drives an xa. when i visit him i always insist on driving my corolla when we go out, as it is infinitely quieter than his xa and takes bumps much more softly. both our cars are fairly new, and there is no doubt that his car takes bumps like a go cart, while the corolla is much softer. every review i read before getting the corolla considered it a quiet highway cruiser. the xa engine is at 3000 rpm's at 60 mph :surprise:(versus 2350 for the corolla) , so no wonder its so loud on the highway. he agrees wholeheartedly with this assessment. his like of the xa is geared toward its looks. the corolla also beats his xa in the mileage department, and its most pronounced the more highway driving thats done (back to the excessive rpms of the xa). at least the yaris will do a little better than the xa in this regard.

brucepadgett

Hmmm...would you know when the '07 Xa might be coming out?

And as for the smoother ride of the '06 Corolla: some of them perform better than others. After my purchase, I tried out a couple more. One had a better ride, and another was even worse than mine. Also, there's an MSN car survey site, and about 1 in 5 respondents mentioned the bumpy ride. A Toyota rep rode with me and acknowledged no two production models are alike, but mine fell within spec and could not be modified without voiding the warranty.

brucepadgett

The Corolla feels fine on the freeways here in SoCal, which are kept in good shape. It's the street roads where I feel the jolts, far more pronounced than my old 1999 Corolla. Otherwise, the ride is fairly quiet to me. The car would be a dream if not for the bumpiness.

reddroverr

I don't know when for it will be out for sure. I believe the Fall if it follows precendence,

carfanatic007

I would strongly advise you NOT to trade in a 2006 Corolla for an XA. You would go upside down BIG time on your balance, and get a car which in my opinion isn't even close to being as good as a Corolla!

brucepadgett

Please elaborate. Before I trade, I need to know all I can. I'm at my wit's end with the bouncy Corolla. I'd even considered the Yaris, but found the liftback in particular to have a bumpy ride.

Thanks!

kato1

it all depends what you are comparing to. if youre comparing corolla to, say, a camry or maxima, yeah it may feel bumpy. but, in the compact class, nothing absorbs bumps better that a corolla. maybe your tires are inflated too high. maybe you need new tires. ive never heard anyone complain of the 9th gen corolla giving a bumpy ride. before i bought the corolla, i test drove everything i could many, many times. (i even went to about 8 different toyota dealers so they would not get sick of me test driving) i had narrowed it down to the xa and corolla. i actually like the unique looks of the xa. three things made the corolla the choice for me--(this is after at least 8 test drives of each car on all different types of road conditions)i.e. here is what youll give up if you make this trade--beyond the strong possibility that youll be upside down if financing is involved.

1)the ride in the corolla was much quieter and bumps in the road were absorbed much better--the xa engine drone (4000 rpms at interstate speed) was so tedious that the only solution was to crank the stereo louder than id like or to wear some noise reducing headphones. in the xa i could feel bumps right in my a**. the corolla at the same speed was more like 3000 rpms and while i could feel the bumps (as you will in any $15000 car) they were much less harsh than in the xa.

2)the price i paid for my 06 corolla ce w/cruise & power locks added to the standard features(which, by the way includes ac, cd player, power mirrors, outside temperature gauge--i love this feature) was only $770 more than the no haggle xa price.

3) corolla gets better gas mileage even though it is bigger and has noticeably more power than the xa. this was, for me, a very important factor. i communicated with many owners of both the xa and corolla to see what the real world mpg numbers were.--i found corolla owner to be getting 40+ mpg on mostly highway and 32-34 mostly city. SO FAR, AFTER 3 TANKS MY NUMBERS HAVE EXCEEDED THIS. xa owners just could not achieve those numbers. the body style causes too much drag for the tiny engine and it revs too high on the highway.

these are my observations, though i can see the appeal style wise of an xa or yaris. if i were 20 years old, the corolla might be too boring to me. i think in the corolla, toyota has combined economy with comfort better than any car in its class (yes i drove an 06 civic--no quieter, poorer mileage, and a HIDEOUS dash thats ridiculously long from driver to winshield.

note: the same arguments apply to the corolla vs yaris, particularly the way dealers are packaging the yaris with options($$)--the yaris does come closer to the corolla in the mileage department

brucepadgett

Perhaps the problem I'm having is exacerbataed by my comparing the new Corolla with my old '99 model. That was a smoother ride by far IMHO. The $15,000 price point observation you make holds validity in most cases, but I should mention what a Toyota repairman told me recently. He mentioned that there had been several complaints about bumpiness in late model Lexuses. These are high ticket items, so I'd have to believe Toyota's engineers are doing something different lately. I just don't know. And now the Yaris seems equally disappointing--my crappy old Ford Festiva (may it rest in pieces) was more pleasant to drive.

Taking the new Yaris models, the '06 Corolla (5 months broken-in), and the '06 Xa and Xb over the same test area had me conclude that the Xa took the bumps the best. And right now this is my pet peeve.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it, and welcome any assistance towards my imminent decision.

kato1

Taking the new Yaris models, the '06 Corolla (5 months broken-in), and the '06 Xa and Xb over the same test area had me conclude that the Xa took the bumps the best. And right now this is my pet peeve.

i guess it goes to show even ride quality is very subjective between two people. i used to drive a 2001 corolla--i believe the '99 would be of the same generation. to me the current generation has a smoother, bigger car feel than the '01. all the scions mentioned seemed to me to be very harsh compared to either the '01 or the current model.

i think if you feel its enough of a problem and you really like the scion you could make the switch if you dont mind the financial hit. my one piece of advice would be: do not trade the corolla in unless you are in a big rush. youll do MUCH better selling it privately, but it will likely take some time as opposed to just trading it.

if you are a person who drives your cars into the ground for 10 or 15 years, then you should enjoy what you drive.

brucepadgett

The owner of the dealership I bought the Corolla from respects that I'm a repeat customer and is willing to credit back the car for max bucks (about $10-12K), as I'm going to get another car from him. He said he already made money from me, and is not trying to get more, that my satisfaction with his business would pay off in the future. He's being a mensch.

And if luck holds I will drive the sucker into the ground. I wonder how long Scions will last anyway?

kdhspyder

It's a Toyota ... Take care of it and you'll see 100-200K miles. You will likely tire of it before that though, human nature.

tygger

I would expect it to last ATLEAST 100-200k miles as most cars (esp. imports) last 100k w/ basic routine maintenance.

reddroverr

The owner of the dealership I bought the Corolla from respects that I'm a repeat customer and is willing to credit back the car for max bucks (about $10-12K),

What did you pay, out the door, if I might ask?

brucepadgett

About $12,900. That also was the unit's sale price, but I was given $1750 for my beat-up '99 Corolla (64,000 miles), so after tax/license/etc. it came to $12,900 out the door.

reddroverr

Ooo 64k is a baby for a Toyota. I sold my 1990 Celica a couple years ago with 240k on it..for not much less. I would have bought that car for 1750 in a heart beat.

Oh well, at least it isn't a Hyundae you are trading in, they drop like a rock. But, keep your eyes open..dealers talk nice, but they are in business to make money.. so they probably aren't going to do you any great favors, even if they say they are.

brucepadgett

That '99 Corolla was trouble from the start. Suspension problems which necessitated a couple repairs within the first few months, for example. Also, The thing required a lot of repairs after 50,000 miles. Call it a lemon. After 6 years I had enough.

If the Echo had still been available, I'd have snapped it up. Which is why I was so interested in the Yaris. I wish I had been more impressed with the test drive. Handling was fine but the brakes didn't feel as good as the Corolla's, or the Xa's, which had terrific handling BTW. And the Yaris, particularly the liftback, didn't ride smoothly enough. I wish I had loved the Yaris, but I just couldn't.

spektre

It must've been in really bad shape, your Corolla. I see 96-98 Prizms selling for $3k minimum with nearly 100k miles... I would've bought that Corolla for $1750 in a heartbeat too. Whaddya wanna bet the dealer turns it around and puts it on their used lot for at least $4k?

w9cw

From experience with quite a number of makes, if you take care of any modern vehicle today, i.e. strict adherance to the regular scheduled maintenance in the Owner's Manual, practically all cars will go 150K without any problems.

brucepadgett

Actually, I checked. The dealership prides itself on fast turnaround, and since the Corolla needed multiple repairs, new tires, body work, etc. they sold it to another dealer. Trust me, they did me a favor and it helped me bargain down the price of the new car. I recently read on another forum of reports of engine problems in that '99 model, and while I can't confirm the statement's veracity, it only makes me feel better that I unloaded the lemon.

Mr_Shiftright

I drove the Corolla before buying the Scion xA. Basically the idea of ride is subjective. I bought the xA because it has more personality, was a lot more fun to drive, and you can buy more accessories/improvements for it. I have added a rear sway bar, strut brace and sport muffler. Handling is superior to a Corolla if you like to fling a car around a bit.

I don't really notice the higher RPM on the highway. I don't quite understand why this is a big deal for some folks, it's not bad under 80 mph.

On the Corolla's side, you have a bit more power (not much really), lower rpm on the highway, and a rear trunk.

Pricewise, a Corolla equipped comparable to what I bought costs about $700 more than an xA.

I'll test drive a Yaris asap and let you all know what I think...

iluvmysephia1

for 2006 and I was impressed by it. It is definitely a car to buy for "fun factor". I suspect the 2007 Toyota Yaris hatch and even the sedan will be the same. There's a red base Yaris sedan a mile from my house here sitting at the Toyota dealer screaming out for me to go test drive it tomorrow.

They have several Corolla's, new and used, but I really loathe their general middle-of-the-road looks. So bland they're out of the running with me.

Yeah, I can see the appeal of the xA and wanted one for a while but have my eyes firmly planted on the Yaris sedan because I want 4-doors and I like it's looks. I also like the new 2006 Rio LX and Rio5 from Kia. Great value once again from Kia.

I'll report back here if/actually when I test drive the new Yaris sedan and let ya know what I think of it.

sappy

I drove both yaris's in automatics. The hatchback seems much smaller than the sedan & unfortunatley is only a two door. The only available hatchback models for the near future dont have the 60/40 split and there is a slight, maybye 2, inch bump when seats down. The yaris sedan is a beauty. Very pretty, looks like a smaller Camary, so if you want a fuel effecient sedan, that is it. Only problem is I prefer a hatchback and a manual transmission. So tried the xa, it comes with a lot more features than the yaris for the same price, but 3-4mpg less in gas and is ugly. Not sure what to do, settle for the sedan, which just seems bigger and definatley more chick magnetic or go for the xa. Do dogs mind lying in a sedan? I dont know if getting less car in the yaris hatch is worth the 3.5 mpg. over the xa.. Help me decide. Please!

nippononly

I have been in a similar decision process to yours. For me it ultimately comes down to the looks - I prefer those of the Yaris to the xA. But this means I will be waiting a while for the car I want to be available, as Toyota is building so few hatches.

For your situation, if you need a car soon, you should probably just go for the xA - it is a great value in its own right, they are out there in plentiful supply and lots of colors, and of course they are highly customizable.

Plus, if you are into the Yaris and xA, you should probably take a look at the base Accent and Fit models - they have about the same price and equipment level as the xA. All of a sudden, there are a lot of very decent car choices at the $14K price point!

cdoc

I wanted the Yaris liftback for exactly the same reasons, but saw the xA at the dealership and changed my mind very quickly. I bought one (5-speed) six weeks ago, and I couldn't be happier with it. It has all the bells and whistles, including ABS and 60/40 folding rear seats, and it's very comfortable, even in the backseat for adults. If I had wanted all that in a Yaris it would have cost me the same price, and without the four doors. In terms of fuel efficiency, I understand your concerns. But with only 1500 mi on my xA so far, I haven't fallen below 35 mpg with mixed driving. The only thing I would have wanted different is a weaker 5th gear (or a sixth gear). It's a little whiny above 65 mph, and on long highway trips it can get a little tiring. But that's not what I use it for, so like I said, it was a great buy. Good luck.

nagalman

I'm trying to figure why the xA gets 38 MPG and the Yaris gets 40 on the highway when they have the same engine (1.5L) and similar weights (xA 2340lbs MT), Yaris (2288lbs MT). I think it probably has something to do with gearing. My question for xA MT owners is: at 60mph in 5th gear are the engine RPMs?

Mr_Shiftright

I think in reality the MPGs will be about the same. I've already broken 38.5 on the xA and I think I could hit 40 under the right conditions.

cdoc

You're absolutely correct: it is the gearing. In the xA, the engine revs higher. This is unfortunate and, in my view, the only shortcoming of the xA. Also, I think the Yaris MT can get more than 40 mpg (just as the xA MT can get more than 37 mpg) if driven just so.

I saw a Yaris 2-dr in a Home Depot parking lot the other day. Cute as a button, but very small, even smaller than the xA. I'm glad I didn't wait, as was my original plan. I'm enjoying the xA. And the four doors are a big advantage.

Mr_Shiftright

The lower gearing, to my mind, is an advantage, because it gives you better acceleration 0-60 than say the xA automatic, and also allows you to shift less in city driving. High gearing does give you a bit more comfortable cruising speeds but can be a real disadvantage at lower speeds, as you often can't hold 4th gear in city traffic---whereas the xA has no problem with this.

Obviously, this lower gearing was an engineering compromise on the xA MT, but I think it was a good decision for the stickshift driver. Nothing worse than a torque-less small engine in city traffic. This is why the early American subcompacts were so maddening to drive.

cdoc

Yes, I agree. And I do enjoy driving my xA on winding country roads. I can also see why it would be good for city driving. But it just doesn't feel right on the highway. A compromise would be having a sixth gear. Perhaps the Nissan Versa will start a trend. Then everyone will be happy.

Mr_Shiftright

again, all cars are a compromise. If you had 6 gears, with 6th being an overdrive, you'd have to pay more for it in MSRP, and with 1.5 liters, you'd be downshifting out of 6th on every slight grade.

These types of cars are really perfect urban and inter-urban cars. They aren't good longterm highway cruisers. But for that matter, neither is the next step up, the $20,000 compacts.

Until you start considering cars with V-6s and considerable cabin space, you aren't going to get a really satisfactory highway car, I don't think.

cdoc

You make a good point. But I think it's a matter of taste. I wouldn't mind paying $500 more and getting a 6th gear which I would use only the the highway.

I disagree that the satisfactory highway cars are those that are larger and more powerful. Our other car is an '05 Saturn Ion (yes, we have an Ion and a Scion), and for a small family this car is wonderful on the highway.

Still, I'm not complaining. I thoroughly enjoy the xA.

reddroverr

$500 more seems high. if the 6 spd was the standard manual trans., it doesn't seem the cost should be more than an extra hundred or two...if that.

Mr_Shiftright

The engine really doesn't have the power to pull a 6th gear I don't think. It would stress the engine IMO. I'm trying to think if there is ANY 6 speed car with this power to weight ratio. Don't know.