Houses cost too much!

gagrice

Kind of industrial looking. Very neat and tidy. It suffers from the same problem so many homes in Oregon suffer from. No distant views. My wife hates all the trees in Oregon. Makes her claustrophobic. That will be an issue with what ever we buy in Pahrump. Surrounded by mountains so that will be our views. Land is so cheap, I may want to buy the lots around me that are not built on. This place just came on the market. Not sure how they will get much interest with all the clutter. Has 3 car attached and two car detached garages. Over 1200 sq ft of garage space. Kind of small and over priced. The kitchen looks 1980s.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/900-E-Falcon-St-Pahrump-NV-89048/65315816_zpid/?fullpage=true

gagrice

Can you find a buildable half acre for $8k in Seattle. Most 1 acre lots go for under $20k. Around here 1 acre with all the permits to build is at least $400k. Get in the city and it goes up from there.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/300-W-Eaton-St-Pahrump-NV-89048/2093831555_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

I like trees for shade. So few houses have AC, and summers seem to be getting warmer. You'll want AC or trees. It's all pretty boring scenery anyway around that house anyway, you'd get a view of other subdivisions, no loss. Maybe if you moved, with land so cheap, you could just have a place built - although I suspect some of these places on the market are under replacement cost. The counters in that latest Pahrump house do give me a late 80s vibe. Nice garages, but I don't know if I'd want to maintain a lawn in the desert. If I was there I'd be fine with pumice, sand, and cacti.

Half acre lots in Seattle proper are rare unless you are in a demilitarized zone (and for boring whitebread Seattle, there are some rough areas). Lots of infill development going on the closer you get to the city, and in trendy areas. Heck, a co-worker of mine just bought a 1900 sq ft turn of the century (the last one, not a good thing) tract house on a 4000 sq ft lot (I kid you not) a mere 70-100 minutes from work in commuting time traffic, for only 475K. That's where we are here.

gagrice

Actually there are several brand new houses just being built well under $300k. Brand new well and septic. Very tempting. Pick your colors and flooring.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/951-W-Simkins-Rd-Pahrump-NV-89060/125168790_zpid/?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1110-Georgene-St-Pahrump-NV-89060/2097907936_zpid/?fullpage=true

gagrice

My wife was just talking to an old friend from school. She has lived in Oregon 40 years. Her and her husband want to get out because of the high taxes. Income tax now almost 10% They are thinking about Nevada also. Can you imagine buying a home for this much? We get moved over there, I may pick up a few of these deals as rentals. A guy could make 10% ROI without even trying.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1245-Ashley-Ct-Pahrump-NV-89060/62704695_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

If I was getting older, I might want the new house. It would be a nice feeling to never worry much about maintenance or the condition of a building. I now understand why older people like to retire to new manufactured home communities - less to worry about, less work.

Depending on the place in Oregon, it can be high tax but high amenity. That's why a lot of people deal with taxes, there are things to offset it. I've been to supposed low tax areas in the south, once you are there, you see why the taxes are low, because it's kind of a pit with no amenities, and nobody but local old money and good old boys honestly want to be there. But it can be good for retirees.

I can't imagine houses at that price, but I also can't imagine how dire the job market would be there for a young professional. You're going to have to telecommute, have the commute from hell, or be in a few very specific vocations. Rentals kind of scare me, every landlord I have known has either spent a fortune with a property management firm, or had endless drama managing it themselves. That's a cheap house, but I can find them just as cheap closer to home. My fear is renovating it and having a tenant destroy it.

gagrice

I think some people do commute to Vegas. The airport is only 50 miles of Harry Reid 4 lane with very little traffic.

My experience as a landlord is not all good. Bought a house in Hawaii with a single mom section 8 with 5 kids. The state made it close to break even. Being 2500 miles away was a serious issue. So happy when she found a bigger sucker than me. A school teacher moved in and was great. We visited her while in Hawaii. She is still renting from the new owner. Though she liked us better. We took care of problems when they came up.

Now I have one in Indiana that is not bad. I think they will follow through on buying the place. My daughter says they keep it up real nice. Finding good investments is not easy. Don't want to flip houses. Did that in the 1980s in Alaska. Hard dirty work with so so gain.

fintail

I know people who do 50 mile commutes here. Probably easier there, but I know housing in Vegas is pretty cheap too - probably better to live closer in unless one just has to live in Pahrump.

Being a landlord is tricky - you either need to be close so you can personally attend to issues, or hire someone to do it for you, but there goes your profit margin. And in an area like where I live, I can't imagine it is easy to make a profit, unless one bought the property so long ago that rents can cover all expenses. I think a lot of landlords here are longtime owners, especially boomers who inherited property.

gagrice

If a person works in Vegas several good areas to live. However prices are higher, lots are smaller, and utilities are higher. Water is an issue in Vegas so costly. I want to be able to grow my garden and fruit trees without worrying about high water bills. So I would not really advise someone to live in Pahrump and work in Vegas. Thankfully it is just far enough away to make it marginal as a bedroom community. My biggest concern is the HUGE race track complex that is there. So far there are not many hotels to accommodate the crowds. So people will likely stay in LV and come over for the races. Should not impact the town that much, I Hope.

http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/

fintail

From some distance, I am sure that place isn't much of a hassle, just don't be next door, unless you are into it. Is water out in the sticks cheaper than the city?

gagrice

Everyone on an acre has their own well. The city is sitting on a very large aquifer. Water bills on the smaller lots seem low enough. Then you add sewer in those areas and it is out of your control. With Septic and well on all the 1 acre+ lots you are not tied to the city/county. The electric company is a Cooperative which means the profits all go back to the members/consumers. The electric company has run fiber all over Pahrump and offer very high speed service for $50 a month. It costs about $180 a month during the Summer to cool a 2500 sq ft house. The rates are 1/4 what we are during the Summer. This Summer they are up to 43 cents per KWH. We suffer in the house rather than try to keep it pleasant. That will be nice having a cool house in the Summer time and a warm house in the winter. Propane last winter was about $1500 for the 3 cold months. I am excited about this place just re-listed. Built new in 2007. 4070 sq ft with an 1100 sq ft 4 car garage attached.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2330-Deadwood-St-Pahrump-NV-89048/79886477_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

I suppose if the well and septic pass inspection, good deal. I wouldn't want to suffer in that heat though. Even here, I run the AC in the summer. But with cheap power (for now, I think population and EV growth will change that) and a small place, my bill is a pittance. I've never had a power bill at $100, not even really close. My mom's drafty 1920s house seems to average $150-200 though. Electric is more expensive in her small town than in the city.

4000 sq ft, too big. Looks like they are in no hurry to sell, given the tiny price drops and eons on the market. Offer like 335K and see what happens.

gagrice

4000 sq ft is more than I want or need for sure. No mention of why it has two kitchens. Is there a granny flat as part of the home? Don't really want the pool either. BUT, it does get warm and it was nice to jump into when I had one in Lake Havasu. I survived 3 years in Lake Havasu and it is 107 here today. So I am not too worried about the heat. At least there I can drive 20 miles into the mountains and get relief from the heat. Here I am in the mountains and the only place cool is at the Beach with a million tourist. So the house is now empty and only the wife's name is on the current owners list. Likely the husband passed away some time ago. One of them was handicapped as it has exemptions and a handicap shower. I think $325k cash would buy it. Maybe even less. It will be on our short list next month. Our property in Hawaii sold. We listed it while over there. Buy the above place for nine months of the year. Sell this one and buy or rent a condo on the Oregon coast for the Summers.

fintail

Yep, sounds like a MIL place. The pool can be nice, but is it worth the cost? Are the mountains outside of Pahrump really cooler? Make a low offer and see what happens, the worst that can happen is a refusal.

In some areas, depending on how long you want to hold, and the expenses of owning, renting can be a better deal.

gagrice

The cost of owning a pool is high unless you use it a lot. Not worth it. Maybe raise Tilapia in it. As for getting out of the heat. All up in the mountains was in the 70s today, while it was 110+ in Vegas and Pahrump. The mountains are over 12,000 ft and the passes and settlements over 8000 ft. I look forward to exploring them. Winter they have too much snow. So great in Summer. It was 106 here today so a few more degrees does not matter. It is hot.

http://kensphotogallery.blogspot.com/2013/06/daytrip-wheeler-pass-via-pahrump.html

fintail

Sounds like place to spend the winter, and spend summers up north

It will be around 90 here this weekend, that's hot for here, and enough for me, as it isn't always a totally dry heat in June.

fintail

Problems in the lower end of the market - not so much here, as Seattle doesn't really have a low end of the market.

And it's even worse in a couple Canadian locations - ask no questions about the origin of money.

gagrice

Interesting comparison to the Canadian market. Sunday I talked to my mortgage broker friend. Asked how his business was doing? He said kind of slow. Lack of inventory in our area. Which is good for me. No one seems to be building out here. So many regulations and red tape that it is easier to buy a fixer and try making money that way.

My wife's friends in Oregon liked the looks of the houses on the golf courses in Pahrump. Wanted to meet us there and maybe move from Roseburg, OR. Today my wife got an email. They saw Vegas at 117 degrees and decided to just stay in Oregon. We hit 106 yesterday, and survived. The desert is not for everyone.

fintail

Vancouver and Seattle are equally ruined for young buyers, and ruined by similar forces. Just like WA outside of Seattle metro isn't usually too expensive, the same can be said for Canada outside of BC Lower Mainland/Victoria/metro Toronto.

117 is a bit much for me. 100 is doable under AC, but after a certain point it becomes silly, and you stay indoors. Roseburg would be a lot more pleasant, and I suspect they have seen some property inflation due to fleeing Californians.

Regulations can be bad and good, depends on what they are. I wouldn't mind more regulatory fees being tacked on to the money laundering set, to fund infrastructure.

gagrice

They are long time Oregon residents. She went all through school with my wife and took a teaching job in Roseburg after graduating from college here in San Diego. He was born and raised in Eugene. Both in their 70s. He has COPD pretty bad and was thinking the desert may be good for it. I don't have a clue. Las Vegas was about 10 degrees warmer than Pahrump. Lower elevation and lots more concrete to suck up the sun. Going to find out, we have reservations for the 10th of July.

San Diego just has high permit fees and environmental regulations. You have to get an environmental impact study on your lot before you even thing about a building permit. That can cost $thousands. Not realistic to figure less than $100,000 for water, sewer, electric hookups and building permits. Water hookup is $25k now.

fintail

I think it might be too much of a shock for someone from an area as relatively lush as Eugene to move to the desert. It may help with respiratory issues though - my dad initially moved to the beach when he hit a certain age, but it impacted his sinuses. When he went east of the mountains, a lot of the issues stopped.

I suspect for ROI in a trendy place like San Diego, those fees are still workable. Maybe also easier to build in a place where utilities are already in. If it is anything like Seattle, they just tear down old SFHs from the lucky generation middle class, and slap together townhomes or condos on the same lot, more profit for the "investor". For as much subsidy and coddling as the property development/home building industry receives, I can't really feel sorry for it even if regulations seem harsh.

gagrice

I went out worked in the yard while it was high 90s and was fine. Truth is I stay where it is cooler whether it is 85 or 105. Our friends in Roseburg have a beach house they used to spend summers in. The stairs and dampness really cause him problems with his COPD. He is 79 and smokes. I think he is better off staying where he is. That and he is very liberal, and Pahrump is VERY conservative. Nye county went 68% for Trump.

As for ROI, I will be happy to break even with what we paid and have put into this house. Plan is to buy in Pahrump and take our time moving over. The reason I want a large garage. 1100 sq ft is big enough. Plus a 12x24 ft insulated shop will be nice. Two 10x20 out buildings for storage. Our piano mover friend has a 30 ft trailer and will take the grand piano and full loads to Pahrump for $800. I think we can do it easy with 3 trips. Take our time packing. Most of the furniture we will sell here or give away. It came with this house, so my wife is tired of it. Some she was tired of when we bought the place 10 years ago. She will enjoy buying furniture at the Goodwill.

fintail

I think there is something about beach areas that gets to people, and they don't know it until they live there. Maybe related to mold and vegetation. As I spent several years of my youth near a beach, and have dealt with the tourist hordes, I am over it, at least on the west coast. I will admit I find some of the northern FL beaches pretty nice though, laid back and warmer - and even in the nicer ones, housing costs are much lower than here. The political climate can be a thing too - you will be hard pressed to find any areas more liberal than Eugene, it's like a mini-SF (which is funny, as adjacent city Springfield isn't such a hippie haven).

Why such a big garage, keeping the old LS forever? I think as time goes on, we will see more boomer-hoarders parting with needless things. A lot of them are collectors, and younger generations aren't into it. My parents were hobbyist antique dealers, and my mom has a house packed with stuff, I think it is like a security blanket for her, all of the collections. Neither me nor my siblings want much of it. For a lot of stuff, this may be the time to sell. Pianos may be in the same boat - I saw a free grand piano at an estate sale not long ago. Fun to play with, but a chore if you move, or even rearrange furniture.

gagrice

I agree with you on all the above. I liked living overlooking the ocean when I rented a place down by Rosarito Mexico. Most of the year it was cool and cloudy till about 11 am. The real issue for me was not health. It was rust. Everything gets rusty fast. Appliances have a very short life at beach houses. Cars the same, though most of the newer cars seem to have overcome that problem.

Big garage for logistical purposes. Haul stuff in and then go through it and decide what to get rid of at either the Dumpster, Good will or garage sales. With the burglary issues here in So CA, I don't want people seeing what I have and then coming back and trying to steal it. Our home is on a hill with very little parking. So hard for people to come to a garage sale. It will be good living on the level for so many reasons. I have SOOOO much stuff that is in boxes that I need to go through and sell or donate.

I was so proud of my daughter when she just moved into the new home her and her deceased husband had built. She really cleaned house before she moved into the new bigger place. She did not realize how much stuff Tommy had. She gave a PU load and a half of ammo loading equipment to a friend of his, that helped her after Tommy died. Speaking of the cost of houses. She sold her place in one week. She did not make a lot over the 6 years they owned it. Basically free housing that whole time. And I got 4% return on the First mortgage I held on it. So now I need to re-invest that money. Likely in a Pahrump house. We have held several home mortgages over the years, and it is one of the best investments. Provided they pay their payments. So far we have not gotten any dumped on us. Mostly family that we knew had jobs that could make the payments.

fintail

Rust is an issue near the ocean here, too. And it is a lot gloomier - coastal areas receive well over double the rain seen in Seattle, and have a lot less sun. There's a reason those places have higher depression and suicide rates (and pretty fair prices for oceanfront property), and it isn't just the poor local economies. If I ever moved to the beach, it wouldn't be a beach up here.

My last move cut my square footage in half. I sold a few things, donated or tossed more. It was kind of liberating, although in the intervening years more crap has accumulated. My sister is having a yard sale later this summer, and boxes of stuff will be headed out. People have too much stuff, and square footage encourages it. Holding a mortgage is probably a lot less hassle than renting to a stranger.

fintail

Seems like it will never stop

45 likes to moan about vetting and a certain visa group, maybe some others need to be vetted and another visa group scrutinized.

gagrice

Must be plenty of good paying jobs in Seattle. That and no income tax has to be a draw. Realtors are begging for listings here. I just don't want to sell and be rushed into buying something else. If we are going to stay in CA, this is a great home. Made my reservation to go over the 10th to look at a few places. Kind of focused on the one. Big enough for two families to live in. Not getting any younger, my need someone to care for us. Almost talked myself into the pool. I swore I would never own another pool. I could fill it with Tilapia.

fintail

There are many jobs good enough to pay for a house an hour or more from work, which seems to be what many people with a family are doing now. It's not just or even mainly local jobs doing it, a huge factor is non-local money playing in the market. Then you get the fun of numerous vacant properties at the same time as a housing crisis. Time to tax the heck out of speculators to pay for infrastructure needs and to discourage vacant properties. Of course, nobody will question the origin of money, and I definitely don't expect that to change as we quickly sink into oligocracy.

No income tax, but a sales tax ranked among the most regressive in the land, actually, that aids speculators too.

The problem with selling and buying locally is that every other house has inflated the same as yours, so the windfall might not be real. I haven't seen the appeal of a pool since I was a kid, seems like a huge money pit, a black hole in the backyard. When I was in FL last November, I picked up some free real estate guides, and stared in awe at the low prices. But so many of the houses had a pool - that's a liability to me. It was sometimes difficult finding a nice place without a pool.

gagrice

Posted your link on Seattle property inflation to Rocky's FB page. He said to tell you Hi.

About the only way to handle the vacant home owner situation is with high property tax. Then give exemptions to those that live in their homes, Seniors and maybe low income folks. High sales tax vs high income tax seems to hurt the lower middle classes. It should teach frugality in what they purchase. I don't think it works that way. Those that can afford it least seem to have the latest iPhone etc.

We live 35 miles from downtown San Diego. It is more of an executive suburb. Still you get far more here for your money than living close into town. My home on a postage stamp lot within 5 miles of downtown would be easy million and a half. Get to the beach communities and it would be two million or more. An acre lot is good. Gives plenty of room from your neighbor. Unless they have a noisy dog. People with dogs are clueless how annoying their dog can be to the neighbors. The only house close to the one I am interested in Pahrump is in pre-foreclosure. A possible good buy for us. Then we can pick our neighbors. It is smaller than we would want but looks decent. Also has a pool. Most homes in Pahrump do not have pools. They are a liability and cost at least $100 a month for maintenance.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2370-Deadwood-St-Pahrump-NV-89048/62707537_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

I'm not a big fb'er, but I see you mention Rocky now and then. Sounds like he is OK.

These vacant property speculators aren't going to be owner occupiers, and won't qualify for exemptions. The only lower income residents will be renters, who should get a subsidy if buyers get one. I support a tax on offshore buyers, and a tax on vacant properties. Make the former at least twice what Vancouver has enacted, and make the latter onerous as well.

I don't think frugality is a big issue when housing costs have exceeded wage gains by many times over. A house that cost 3 years salary when the lucky ones were able to buy now costs 10+ years salary. Cutting back on a phone won't solve that issue - not to mention the insanely higher costs of healthcare, education, et al. Phones are a funny scapegoat - a high spec phone is $30/month, and with service for one line will be under $100. As this has replaced landlines, it's not a huge difference from landlines (adjusted for inflation) with long distance 30-40 years ago. Cutting back on items that might save one or two hundred a month won't account for the insanity.

35 miles here can easily be a 2+ hour commute in the rain. The execs here generally live closer in. Maybe you could use the Pahrump pool as a skate bowl? Or justify the expense with how much you saved on the house. Not the most fantastic looking place, but not a dump, and something like that on such a lot here would be seven figures too, land value alone.

gagrice

Unfettered consumerism was my point. iPhone is a symbol of consumerism when you have to have the newest one as soon as it comes out. Just thinking of my younger days, we just did not waste money on things like going out to eat, movies, concerts etc etc. We made very small wages and still managed to save every paycheck. My wages in 1962 at the phone company would be like earning $12.50 per hour today. I was living on my own and helping my soon to be wife finish college. I worked 5 years before I could afford to buy a new vehicle. It was a Toyota Land Cruiser $2400. Almost a years take home pay. Utilities were a fraction of what they are now. No TV cable or Internet. Landline was $2.50 a month. Long distance was only used if someone died.

fintail

I wonder what amount of phone users actually have the newest phone - still seems like a bit of a red herring to me. The free marketeers want a consumer-driven economy, now they have it. I also wonder how many people in the past received help from family that isn't as possible today. Federal minimum wage in 1968 (perhaps the zenith year of middle class America - slowly but steadily downhill from there) would be nearly $11 in inflation-adjusted dollars. Look where it is now, and some say it is too high. Unbelievable. Housing, education, medical, and other costs vs wages don't lie. Take away $200/month for phone and internet frivolities, and it still doesn't make up for a house that was once 3x salary that is now 10x salary, not to mention other living costs.

gagrice

You are correct, the business people want to sell everything and anything. Whether people need it or not. The US has a bad case of unfettered consumerism. Do you see that when you are in Europe? This came out today and is rather shocking.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/low-income-families-spend-40-of-their-money-on-luxuries-2017-06-28

I don't think the current MW is too high. I think going from $7.25 to $15 would be crazy. In 2009 the Democrats promised to keep it up with inflation. Well they lied. That and all locations are not equal. $15 per hour in Arkansas would be living large. I do think the higher MW with an abundance of Liberal Arts graduates looking for work will keep the people at the bottom of the food chain out of the workforce.

As for buying homes. I had been working 17 years before my first home purchase. I had saved enough for a good down payment. Even at 3X my annual salary, in 1970 I could not justify buying a home. Interest was about 8% on home loans. Then I got a call that changed my life and let RCA take me to Alaska. Still found rent a better deal than buying as Anchorage was in a boom cycle with the start of the Pipeline.

fintail

Europeans are consumerist, but not to the same extent. Everyone likes toys - it is a cultural universal, but credit isn't such a thing there, so people are better at spending less than they earn. They generally are not as addicted to home ownership, and with the extra money from not buying into the rental stigma, they enjoy life - eating out more often, vacations, nicer clothes, etc. It may be a high tax area, but developed Europe has a very high quality of life - something not always measured by square footage and how many seats are in the family SUV. Things like student loan debt and medical debt are generally unknown, as well.

$15 is definitely not applicable to all areas, or even most areas. I do think MW should have an inflation /COL component, and be tied to when a lucky prior generation was able to get started. Right now, IMO, the MW is criminally low in some areas, and isn't really too high anywhere. I cringe a little at studies regarding "luxuries" - there is always a dose of subjective or silly ta somewhere. Of course lower income people spend more, they have less to spend. They probably spend more of their money on food and housing, too, out of necessity.

I'm 15 years out of school now (I don't count working until my first real full time year round job), and have seen detached housing become too distant or unaffordable, without two solid incomes, or substantial family help. The rate of house price inflation far exceeds most salary increases, or the ability to save for a down payment. Like other inflated/speculative markets, it is all about poorly built overpriced condos for many now - and even then, the costs can be significant. I'd take 8% at a 1970 salary:price ratio over current prices here, easily.

gagrice

Those that bought homes in 1970 at the going rate of $25,000 for a new home in a decent subdivision will make out when and if they sell. Those same houses in that subdivision go for about $600,000 if they come on the market. I was making in 1970 when I quit Ma Bell $4.56 per hour. If everything stayed the same I would be making about $29 per hour and that house would be $160,000. In Alaska I was paid $8.55 per hour to start. But same sort of home in Alaska was just over $40k. Almost all the guys that went to work for RCA bought homes within the first year. Those homes did not go nearly as crazy as San Diego homes. Yet wages in Alaska have kept up better than most places. Which tells me picking your location is as important as picking your Vocation.

An old girlfriend just sold her home in Anchorage and is planning to live full time in her Hawaii home. She was in Anchorage so missed her while we were there. Nice home from the 1970s looks like a decent buy today.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6201-Nenana-Pl-Anchorage-AK-99516/49890_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

It's the same here, a nice enough starter home would have been about 25K then, which was probably about 3x the average wage. It can easily be 600K or more now. A nicer 35-50K house will have appreciated similarly, into 7 figures now. Wages haven't done nearly the same, but I guess it doesn't matter when a driving force behind pricing is outside money (which in an era when big mouths cry for "vetting", nobody questions the sources of money). Of course, location matters. A distant area where I lived as a kid has only seen prices double in the past 25 or so years, sometimes not even double, if the house isn't pristine. The commute would be untenable, however - in average workday traffic, maybe 3 hours each way to employment centers.

That Anchorage house would be a lot more here in a decent area, but I suppose that's Anchorage. I suspect it costs a lot more to build a place up there too.

gagrice

Building materials and labor are more than here for sure. Land is still not so expensive in most areas. Housing is much more volatile there. I bought a place in 1991 for $125k that the owner paid $190k for in the late 1980s. He still owed $175k and had to kick in $50k to protect his credit. Worst part he bought it for his parents and they lived in it a year and left Alaska. Only place I have seen boom and bust on a regular basis like Alaska is Hawaii. My son living in Oregon has a home in Wasilla AK. I told them best to unload it while the market is hot.

fintail

I'd imagine materials are a lot more expensive than in the lower 48, and with the high cost of living, good labor is pricey. However, a few people I have known who have tried the AK thing have slowly built their own place - I don't know if there are many building codes or inspections there. so that might cut costs in kind of a developing world way. That place you bought also points out a danger, holding for too short a time. If prices fall a few years after you buy, and that harms you, you are doing it wrong. Sounds like a speculator - if a house is bought as a residence, and the owner is employed enough to pay the mortgage, value should be a minor concern, at least in my opinion.

I stopped by a nearby estate sale today. 1961 rambler style house, 1550 sq ft, quarter acre lot. The house, while a cool period piece with original fixtures and terrazzo floors, likely has little value. Zestimate is over 850K, and although in a nice enough area, is not in the trendiest zipcode.

gagrice

I would say most of the value was in the quarter acre lot. My deceased Son in law inherited a third of his mom's home in Austin TX. The kids sold the place for $600k. The buyer tore down the family home and built a new one that promptly sold for $900k. Places like Pahrump that land is near worthless. You can buy all the acre lots you want for $12k. Though before the bubble burst in 2008 they were going up to $80k. It was the land here that was over inflated as well. And it is again. Why I want to get out on this ride up. If CA goes the way of Illinois, I don't think the current property values will hold.

When I moved to Alaska in 1970 I was amazed at how many people I met that had built their own homes. Many were living in the basement until they had the money to build the main house. I think it is the Last Frontier syndrome. That was then, now they have all the rules and regulations if you live in a city like Anchorage. Remote areas not so much. My son's home in Wasilla was a foreclosure in a regular old subdivision. He made out pretty well after the crash.

fintail

Yep, land value only. Kind of a shame, as I would be pleased to have a house like that, especially with the high quality light wood finishes (birch and maple, I suppose) and those nice floors, but that's not the trend. Most houses in this immediate area built before 1980 or so are teardowns unless they are significant in size or architecture.

Nicer areas of suburban Chicago are as bad as southern CA or the Seattle area, swaths of neighborhoods of 500K+++ houses. But get out of the desired areas, and it falls flat.

I'd be really leery about buying a house built by a yokel with no oversight - I'd want to know the builder or have really good documentation.

gagrice

There are some things you really need to know when building in extreme climates like Alaska. Right after I moved up to Anchorage a well known San Diego shyster builder came to Anchorage and started a subdivision. He built CA style concrete slab homes. Forced air heat, cheap all the way. Within 3 years the slabs were cracking and the homes ended up all be demolished. By then he was gone. The City passed a law that contractors had to warrant the structure of the home for 10 years. I think that is pretty much universal now.

San Diego is loaded with craftsman style homes built up through the 1940s. None of them are cheap.I like this place.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4230-Arista-St-San-Diego-CA-92103/2101042122_zpid/?fullpage=true

If you buy a registered home you are stuck with it as it is pretty much.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1833-Altamira-Pl-San-Diego-CA-92103/2139837804_zpid/?fullpage=true

Love this one.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1847-Altamira-Pl-San-Diego-CA-92103/2093944251_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

I'd really want documentation if a house was built by a private party, too. As you say, the climate can do a lot, and I bet foundation issues are common. The building I live in had an issue with an inept builder - at 10 years old, the building had leaks in the exterior surface/stucco. The owner sued the builder, and won a renovation, something well into 7 figures. I don't know how they got the money, but the work was done, so someone paid.

Those are some nice old houses, especially the last one. The first one is better from the front, the rear is too showy. I don't have a problem with a registered house - the status is known at purchase, if someone complains after the fact, their mistake. I think much of the time, these houses look better as original anyway. I know some areas in Pasadena have covenants to the point where one can't update windows on an old house, and for good reason - people buy to have streets looking a certain way, and changing the look of a 110 year old house to save $50/year in electricity hurts adjacent property values.

There are many nice neighborhoods of old houses in Portland and Seattle, and not many on any kind of register. Sadly, even 100+ year old gems get knocked down for something modern and kind of trashy. Not much that old in my suburb, as the main bridge to this area wasn't built until 1940 - before then, it was just too far to commute. Lots of nicer 50s-70s custom houses though, some of them by noted architects. These often meet disassembly or a trendy overdone remodel, too. I don't think my town even has a registry.

gagrice

Well I think we found our new home in Pahrump. No big shop but it does have 1000 sq ft garage. This is up hill from the city with a view of the lights at night. Good sunrise and sunset views. Only a half acre. I think I can pick up the lots on either side and protect my views. They live in San Diego and want to sell with all the furniture. They built it in 2005 and never moved here. Was planning to retire and his wife does not want to leave her family. I have $275K cash as an offer.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2180-Iroquois-Ave-Pahrump-NV-89048/65315994_zpid/?fullpage=true

fintail

It does have the never-lived-in look, even period appliances down to the TV. I assume that area experienced a building boom at the same time as Vegas, during the pinnacle of the Bush years when anyone with a pulse could get a mortgage of 10x household income. Lots of listings there seem to be from the same era. If you like it, go for it, still a lot of house for the money compared to a lot of places, something like that would be a million dollars here even outside of the best zipcode.

gagrice

Our realtor will put in an offer of $275k as it sits. She will check the comps to make sure we don't offer too much. It is still a buyers market here. Had the best Filet and Ribeye we have had in years. The winery, largest in Nevada is a quarter mile from the home we are looking at. They are expanding the vineyard so it should be a good buy for the future. No restaurant within 20 miles of us in CA can compare to the meal we just had. That was the deciding factor.

http://www.pahrumpwinery.com/Symphonys-Restaurant

fintail

You could sell the place in SD and use the proceeds, even invested conservatively, as a nice income supplement for decades. You want out of CA, right? This is the chance. Sure is a different world when sketchy money doesn't clog a market.

gagrice

We will buy the Pahrump house and move out of CA slowly. Then put this house on the market. We don't need to sell it before we buy the other one. My wife wants to make some changes and get rid of the carpet in the bedrooms before we move in. If the people accept our offer it is a done deal.

fintail

CA can be cool, but for much of it, if I didn't work there, I don't think I would want to live near any real city if I was retired. Same with the Seattle-Tacoma-Everett area - good place to work and live, but for a laid back retiree or even. semi-retired lifestyle, nah - housing is too expensive and traffic is insane. The only drawback to some other areas might be political rhetoric, but that will change in time. Good luck with your offer, I would want hard floors too.

gagrice

We have gotten to know a couple servers in restaurants in Pahrump. They both have been there for years. The one fellow worked in a Las Vegas casino for several years. He would never go back. I don't think many people are getting rich working there. We have not talked to a person that wants to leave. I talked to everyone from the Hawaiian girl at the Salvation army to a sister of a close friend here. Quiet, Peaceful, are the two words I hear most about Pahrump.

fintail

I am sure the traffic is a bit better than SD, too.