Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
There have been several folks with Daks that have found a layer of 'crud' on the rotors will cause a 'warped rotor like' feeling. Your problem is just a layer of grunge on the rotors. (rust, oils...etc.)
Just do some VERY heavy braking several times in succession followed up by about 20 minutes of driving to cool the brakes off.
Most likely, this will 'cure' your brake 'shuddering' problem for another 10K miles.
Do NOT mill the powerslots... the thin hard-surfacing may be destroyed.
Obviously when at rest over night, rust forms around the perimeter of the pad. After a while, especially if not driven very far, the scuz just gets overwhelming and you get to feel all that build-up through the brake pedal.
However, I have talked to people that have not been satisfied with either the performance or the longevity of the pad material.
Best regards,
Dusty
Less than 600 miles left on the warranty. If I could just get the front-end popping noises to be consistently repeatable, maybe they could get that fixed too.
QUESTION: Were you experiencing anything other than an occasional noise during cold starts? (leakage, bearing failure...etc)
Since I only get the sound for a few seconds when the temp is well below 0F... it is only an issuue for about a month each year.
Please keep us updated on how the new waterpump behaves in below-zero tempartures.
I spent hours taking pieces off and looking for the "drain cock" on the ratiator. The Shop manual says there is one... but I never found it.
I ended up removing the thermostat housing and letting it drain like that. I am impressed with the built-in seal on the thermostat. (no gaskets required.)
While I was under the hood, I pulled the throttlebody and gave it a thorough spraying with cleaner. I also pulled the IAC (IdleAirController) and cleaned that. Now my Dak runs smooth as silk again... not bad for 50 cents worth of spray cleaner and 1/2 hour of time.
Thanks,
Russ
Dick
Dick :-)
John
The main reason I did this is because I have read too many horror-stories about the so-called Dex-cool stuff.
Keep in mind that Dodge DOES NOT USE Dex-cool... even in newer Daks. They use a propriatory antifreeze that should NEVER be mixed with the GM Dex-cool stuff. (nor with the green stuff)
Mixing different antifreeze can lead to the silicates "gelling" and plugging up the system. Your engine can quickly become a boat-anchor if this happens.
Since it is virtually impossible to fully remove all of the 'old' antifreeze, just use what came out.
Do not forget to mix with DISTILLED WATER. The shop manual specifically says this is required in the 4.7L V8. I ALWAYS mix antifreeze with distilled water... it is cheap insurance that the chemical-soup is not compromised by the impurities in my tap water.
Since I was able to get about 2 gallons out of it. I am satisfied that I have enough fresh antifreeze in there for the time being. I expect to change it more frequently now (annually) so the 2-gallon change will be satisfactory.
reports just for Durangos!!! They said Dakotas were even more(worse)!!
Doesn't sound good for Dodge?
I still also have front ends pops and suspension
is feeling worse.
Will make a trip to dealer soon.
Mick
That "300" means NOTHING unless it is qualified with more data like the total datapoints in the calculation.
I can tell you about how many Honda Accord automatic xmissions have failed.... or what about all of the Toyota 6-cylinder engines that are suffering from oil emulsification. I could mention the Saturn engines that consume oil. ALL VEHICLES HAVE THEIR GLITCHES. Just do your research and weigh the pros/cons before purchasing.
Are you aware that Dodge does not just replace an upper ball joint (UBJ)... the UBJ is part of the ENTIRE upper suspention mechinism. It is replaced as an entire unit. (approx $1,200)
I installed HIGH QUALITY, MOOG greasable upper ball joints when mine started to get loose. I give them a shot of grease every few months. (MOOG P/N K7242)
Why let the dealer install the same crappy parts that you allready know are junk? For less $$, the MOOG UBJs are much better and greasable. Any gas-station mechanic can install MOOG UBJ's they are a common wear item on many vehicles.
joints. I have an extended warrentee and plan to
keep my Dakota for 5 or 6 more years.
It's a 2001 Quad with 32K miles. I haven't been
back to the dealer once. But want to get them to
check out the front end and my intermitant gas guage. I have also had the turn signals fail twice
in the last 6 months (clock spring?). I bang on the steering wheel to fix.
Mick
I would think that Moog makes a replaceable ball joint without requiring a new control arm assembly. I think bpeebles is right. I'm pretty sure that the service manual states that the control arm and joint are serviced as one unit.
Regards,
Dusty
If so, takes a few cycles to go out. It happened
to me after I forgot to tighten the cap.
MM
Next, how do I know what it is that's coming out, to know what to replace it with?
In Atlanta
Gas cap is on, but I'll replace that first. I'll post on how it goes. Thanks again.
How did you keep from mixing the propriatory antifreeze, allready installed, with the prestone green stuff you added?
My (very early) 2000 Dak had the ol' conventional american green antifreeze in it from the factory. That is why I stuck with that type.
how do I know what it is that's coming out, to know what to replace it with? GOOD QUESTION! Usually the color will be the only clue you have. (except in Dodge Trucks!)
Here is a good write-up about antifreeze. Pay close attention to the sections that mention Dodge Trucks.
http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/archive/99_8/0415.html
The last time I changed oil I used Mobil 1 5W-30. Since I have recently had a change in lifestyle I realized that opportunity and access to a garage would be much more limiting. So I decided to try the Mobil 1 and see how far I could go.
At 7000 miles the oil still looked surprisingly clean in the 4.7. But when I changed it the oil seemed quite thick. This was especially noticeable when pouring fresh Mobil 1 back in.
I'm going to have this used oil tested, but I'm suspicious that the viscosity index improvers are outliving the pour-point depressants. This is actually typical of multiviscosity oils, but if this is true then why pay the price for Mobil 1?
Anyway, I'll let everyone know what the test results are.
At 17000 miles the Dak is running like a charm. Just recently got 22.93 MPG on a trip. But, if I drive impatiently it drops precipitously. It's 13 months old and still no problems. This may end up being a better assembled vehicle than my Nissan, which until now was the best I've ever owned.
Best regards,
Dusty
John
Mobil1 is a VERY good solvent. I will actually CLEAN the thick, goopy, buildup from the inside of an engine that has been running dyno-oil. I beleive the 'thickness'you were seeing was the suspended gunk which tended to thicken the Mobil1
Most motoroil will THIN as it is used because the plastic that is added to the oil to make it multi-grade gets sheared.
SIMPLIFICATION:
To make a multi-grade oil... ie. (10W30)
*)Start with base 10-weight oil.
*)add plastic (long-chain molicules) to it to thicken it until it meets the 30-weight specification too.
During use:
The gears and other sliding parts in the engine tend to chop the long-chain molicules into little bits... leaving behind the base-stock 10weight oil.
As for "extended" oil changes... most automiobles today call for 7500 miles between oil changes. This is when running dyno-oil. 7500 miles should NOT be considerd "extended". Heck, my Volkswagen calls for 10,000 mile oil-changes (But that is running million-mile oil "Mobil DELVAC1")
Only the folks that get PAID to change oil recommed the wasteful 3,000 mile oil-change. Folks that KNOW engines and have held pistons in their hands know that 7,500 miles is just fine under most conditions.
You do have a point when you say "Motor oil gets contaminated with moisture, acids, dirt, and breaks down leaving the additive chemicals to take on independent properties of their own."
But that is with poorly-blended, cheep oil. (79cents a quart at Wallmart)
Modern motoroil that meets the specifications of the engine manufacturer will easilly go the 7,500 miles that they recommend. (They have a built-in 'safety factor' on top of that too.)
THe 4.7 has close clearances too. Again, a motor oil that flows well when cold is key here.
And so is a good filter. I use NAPA/WIX filters only available at NAPA parts stores. They are made by Wix. I have taken them apart and am most impressed with the quality of components and carefull assembly. Also you won't see these filters showing up at "big box" cheapo sale price so there really is little incentive for Wix to cut corners so as to have a price point product. That's a job for Fram.
Since the oil is relatively clean, I'm sure that the inside of my 4.7 is that way too.
I know that more manufacturers are calling for long drain intervals -- as high as 25,000 -- but driving conditions vary so much that I think for some that's going to be way too long. Now I know some are convinced that synthetic is nearly indestructable. The truth is that the magic in motor oil is in the additive package. The base oil is secondary. Where synthetics do have an edge is in their ability to maintain flow and viscosity characteristics over a broader range of temperatures. As far as durability, I am not otherwise convinced.
Anyway, I'm taking some samples to our lab on Monday. I'll see what our lubrication engineer says.
Regards,
Dusty
Based on what I've read, Dodge trucks have been using the HOAT coolant since 1998 or before. The 4.7 in particular was designed around the use of a HOAT coolant.
Whatever and where ever I've read anything on the subject the great precaution is to never mix types. Some coolant system seals and other materials are not compatible with either type. If you are unsure, contact your (or a) Dodge dealer and ask. I believe they might have a list of which Chrysler-built vehicles need which type, since they do the same time for ATF.
The Mopar HOAT is conservatively rated to go 5 years or 100,000 miles in a system that is properly maintained, including using only distilled water as Bpeebles mentioned in an earlier post. However, once contaminated with another type, some believe that only extensive flushing will render the system neutral enough again to return to HOAT.
Best regards,
Dusty
Dusty
You are mistaken about the 4.7L V8 always using HOAT. I have the Dodge shop manual (BOB=BigOrangeBook)that I purchased wiht my 2000 Dakota.
On page 7-29, under "REFILLING 4.7L ENGINE" it SPECIFICALLY says to use "50/50 mixture of ethylene-glycol antifreeze and low-mineral content water"
It cannot be said enough times that MIXING the differnt kind of antifreezes will damage your engine. Excessive corrosion and gell plugging up the small passageways is the reason.
Yeah, my 2003 Dakota manual is confusing in this area, too. Like your manual, mine says the same thing on page 7-14 (Standard Procedure - Refilling Cooling System, 4.7 Engine). And like yours it says to "use 50/50 mixture of ethylene-glycol antifreeze and low-mineral content water."
But in the Lubrication & Maintenance section (page 0-4), the service manual then states in "COOLANT SELECTION AND ADDITIVES:"
"The use of aluminum cylinder blocks, cylinder heads, and water pumps requires special corrosion protection. Mopar AntiFreeze/Coolant, 5 Year/100,000 Mile Formula (MS-9769), with organic corrosion inhibitors (called Hoat) is recommended. This coolant offers the best engine cooling without corrosion when mixed with 50% distilled water to obtain a freeze point of -37C. If it loses color or become contaminated, drain, flush, and replace with fresh properly mixed coolant solution."
I suspect that the manual might be suffering from inadequate editing. The basic service manual format in many areas has been written and used for many years. Newer manuals use previous editions as a boilerplate then edit out old or incorrect information and add newer information. This appears to be an area that got missed since I know that in 2003 every Dakota engine used HOAT.
Best regards,
Dusty
I used about 1.5 gallons of 50/50 ethylene-glycol. I sure hope I have not mixed this with HOAT.. .that may not be good for my cooling system.
Dusty
What vehicles use Zerex G-05 in the factory fill and what is the dye color?
1984 Mercedes and beyond (light yellow)
1990 Deere and Company vehicles and beyond (green)
2001 Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep and beyond (orange)
2002 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury trucks and SUVS and beyond (yellow)
2003 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury automobiles and beyond (yellow)
My Volkswgen uses PURE OrganicAcidTechnology and it is Florecent PINK colored. This stuff is only manufactured in Germany. (There is no substitute)
Fortunatly, the PINK VW stuff is one of the best on the planet and should last the life of the vehicle.
My 2000 Dak with 4.7L engine was built in October 1999. I used about 1.5 gallons of 50/50 ethylene-glycol over a wek ago... no froth in my overflow tank.
Unfortunitly, I think you need to COMPLETELY hose out your cooling system (dont forget the heater core) and ensure that it is all the same stuff in there.
Jhorl, on the sludge, I assume you are referring to the oil dipstick? If that's the case, what you're seeing is signs of moisture in the oil. This could mean several things, either independently or together.
The PCV valve could be clogged. Moisture enters the engine everytime it is shutdown. As it cools down it draws in ambient air, which contains moisture. When the engine is operating manifold vacuum pulls in the crankcase air and moisture through the PCV valve and burns it. If this doesn't happen, the internal area of the engine will build up with moisture and eventually dilute the oil.
The engine may not be coming up to full operating temperature. The coolant temperature should be around 200F when the engine is fully warmed. If not, moisture will not be evaporated inside the engine and turned to water vapor to be purge by the PCV system.
Short trip driving can cause this same scenario. A combination of short trip driving and either of the above can cause rapid coaggulation of the oil. Long oil drain intervals may exacerbate this problem. The cure for short trip driving problems is more frequent oil changes, unfortunately.
I would drain the oil immediately, check the PCV valve and the vacuum lines going to the engine. Check the operating temperature to make sure the themostat is working correctly. If you use a good quality detergent oil in the future, there is very little threat of long term damage.
Let us know what you find.
Best regards,
Dusty
I may be trading this truck in much sooner than I expected.
,answering a lot of my questions and raising some new concerns, I didn't know how carefull I have to be when I service my truck. The bottom line is, the forum works. Thanks everybody.
In Atlanta
If I am slowing down and let off the brakes and put my foot back in it, the pedal wont move much, it will make a popping sound in the pedal (not like abs shudder, just a quick pop) and the brakes are like putting the truck in Neutral and coasting to a stop. I cant tell you how many orange cones on the highway the road I have hit trying to avoid hitting someone in front of me. I am suprised my frontend and rims on the truck or still ok since I have to jump curbs alot to avoid hitting people.
They have replaced all the brake sensors, master cyl twice and even finally told me my pads were bad (after telling me weeks before the pads were fine) I went to an independent shop and they said the pads, discs and drums were great, but I had them do the front and rear pads with turning front and rear and I still have the same problem. The dealer said nothing else they could do. Called D/C and they called dealer and now they want me to bring it back in.
Anybody heard of this?
I would Lemon this truck like the last Dakota but past the 18k mile Lemon Law.
Thanks for the rant.
Robert
Have they tried disconnecting the ABS to see if the same condition exists?
Regards,
Dusty
I'm 220pounds!!! of course, the dealer couldn't duplicate the condition( isn't that always the case), so on the way home from work, at GM no less, I have no brakes.....so I take it right to the dealer, get the service manager and take in for a spin...needless to say, after 5 or 6 trys to stop it,he believed me.....anyhow, they had to replace the abs modular.....1500 bucks worth!
If there isn't any sign of mechanical bing in the master cylinder input shaft (the part that connects to the brake pedal), what else would cause this problem?
Henne doesn't state that there are any other braking abnormalidies, like pulling to one side, etc. So I'm just thinking that maybe under certain conditions the ABS system is falsely refusing any further foot pressure on the brake pedal. Henne, I know you said you're not hearing any ABS actuation, but on my Dakota when the ABS is triggered I don't feel any pulsing or hear the typical stacotto sound of the ABS like I get on the Toyota or in GM products. My has actually triggered a few times and I never realized it until after I stopped. they appear to be very quiet.
So, you might want to make the suggestion to de-feature the ABS and dsrive it for a while to see if the symptom arises.
Best of luck,
Dusty
Front skid plate removal is highly recommended. I also removed the entire plastic shroud that covers up access to the oil filter. Front wheels were raised up about 8”. I put a 1 foot piece of garden hose on the drain valve on the rad (located on the driver side of rad near bottom) and emptied into a bucket. Got about 4 L of fluid. Then undid the lower rad hose at the thermostat. Got about 1.5 L. Then undid the passenger side drain plug, and got another 2 L. Spillage on floor: about half a liter.
The drain plug was difficult to undo (hard to find initially, also) and required a heavier/longer socket wrench (I used a ½” torque wrench with 4” extension, and a 9/16” shallow socket). This required a bit of manipulation of the wrench handle around the oil pan, and I could only turn the wrench about 30º (1 or 2 clicks on the wrench). It eventually came off and was a mess since fluid spills all over the front suspension .have lots of rags handy! I couldn’t get at the driver’s side drain plug because of the starter and front differential being in the way so I ignored it (I believe fluid would have spilled all over the starter anyway, possibly causing other problems).
Got close to 8L of fluid out of the system not exactly sure because there was spillage on my garage floor. Total system capacity is 16L (about 17 quarts). I then replaced the drain plug and lower rad hose, filled the system with distilled water, put on the rad cap, ran engine up to 3000 rpm for 10 seconds, then shut her down, and topped off with distilled water. I ran the truck around town for about 20 minutes and parked her overnight to let it cool. Next morning I repeated the whole process, again filling with distilled water. I then drained it a third time, then put in about 7.5 L of Prestone Ethylene Glycol, ran it to mix it up good, and found it to give protection to about –46º F. That is probably around a 55:45 antifreeze to water ratio. It occasionally reaches –40º here so the extra protection is needed. BOB recommends using EG for 2000 Dakotas, and I haven’t found any gooey mess or discoloration since.
By changing out roughly half of the fluid each time, and doing it 3 times, I figure there was only about 1L of old antifreeze left in the system, if it initially was 50/50 from the factory.
I did discover something interesting during the process. The coil spring inside the upper rad hose that is used for stiffening is visible when the cap is off. It had deposits all over it. There were also deposits on the drain plug tip. This surprised me, as the truck was only 42 months old (just under 60,000 km/35,000 miles). I expected it to be virtually pristine. Knowing this, I think the next time I do this (in 2 years) I will consider using some kind of flushing/cleaning additive first, just for peace of mind, although BOB doesn’t recommend doing anything unless there is obvious scaling/corrosion. The only thing that I think could have caused this was if Dodge used tap water when the truck was built. I added a 50/50 mix once, but estimated that only about half liter of tap water went into the system, and tap water where I live is fairly soft. The deposits were soft and could be easily rubbed off with a fingertip. Interestingly, the spring that stiffens the lower rad hose had no deposits on it at all.
HINTS: I used the top half of a 2 L Pepsi bottle with a piece of garden hose duct taped to it to act as a funnel when popping the drain plug. I read on another board (after the fact) that if you leave the rad cap on while draining the rad, it will suck out all of the fluid from the overflow reservoir. Didn’t have a full reservoir anyway, so I wasn’t too worried. Be carefull when popping the rad cap, as even running a cold engine for 10 seconds at 3000 rpm will charge the system with enough pressure to blow fluid out of the cap (use a rag under the lip of the cap when opening or you’ll spray all over the belt, etc). I also used anti-seize on the drain plug. The drain plugs are visible from outside of the vehicle if you look through the front wheel wells. The passenger drain is a few inches from the block heater (if you have one). You may be able to get to it from there, but it would be tricky. I loosened it up from under the truck and then undid the last few turns from inside the wheel well not as much anti-freeze in the face that way! Access to the driver side drain is more difficult and would probably be easier if the tire was removed.
I know bpeebles says he had trouble finding the rad drain stopcock. Look about 3” above the plastic air dam/lower fascia on the driver’s side of the rad. It’s kind of hidden on the side of the rad, and has a short piece of hose on it that is bent upwards onto itself.
Doing it yourself is a messy job, and next time I think I would pull off the thermostat housing instead of the hose on the housing, as I now realize there is no gasket to replace. By the third changeout it was not as messy and much faster (I could probably now do1 drain/fill cycle in under half an hour).
Hope this helps.