Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions

bpeebles

(ablerus)That is ludicrous. Are they removing the transmission to replace this "shifter seal"?

Which tranny do you have. I am not asking manual/auto... I mean what is the model# of your tranny?(hint... it it based on what ENGINE you have)

Since it is "out of warantee" Feel free to get some other opionions. This is not a 'showstopper' and you can drive it while you decide how to handle this issue. Since the transmission oil sits on the BOTTOM of the transmission, the seal at the top is not a big deal. I have owned trucks that leaked there and they went over 150,000 miles with no xmission problems. What is the big deal with an occasional drip from that seal?

You may opt to just change the xmission oil more often. You could get a LOT of oil changes for $744. At least 8 years worth. (your truck would be 11 years old by then)

BTW: My 2000 Dak (with the NV3500 manual xmission) has over 50,000 miles on it.... Has yours been parked for a couple years?

ablerus

bpeebles: I have a 5-speed HD manual tranny mounted to a 4.7L Magnum V8. (Sorry - that's as specific as I can get right now).

The quote given to me was for the tranny being dropped. They said that they might be able to only partially drop the tranny to replace the seal, which, would "cost a little less".

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a minor/slow leak - there is fluid "everywhere".

I agree, $744 plus is ludicrous! Thanks, I'm already checking out the local tranny shops...

Yes, I have "babied" my truck. It is run every week, I just prefer to walk to school.

I'm still very curious as to what would cause the seal to blow suddenly.

dustyk

I don't know about the 2000 Dakotas, but my 2003 service manual only lists a NV3500 manual transmission.

I think what you may be referring to is the gasket between the shift tower and the transmission case. This should be very simple, but unfortunately it appears to require the transmission be removed from the vehicle.

According to my manual the only specified transmission oil that is to be used is Mopar Manual Transmission Lubricant. I am not familar with this product so I can't tell you anything about it. The 4x2 versions take 4.8 pints, the 4x4 versions 4.2 pints.

For the transfer cases (NV233 & NV244), ATF+4 is specified.

Regards,
Dusty

dustyk

When the engine is at operating temperature the PCM should be in closed loop. When in closed loop I don't believe the idle mixture is being controlled by a PCM algorythm. The O2 sensor is feeding back a signal which adjusts the idle air port (speed) and fuel injector pulse width (AF mixture).

I agree that no fuel injected motor should exhibit a rough idle.

After giving this some thought I am pretty sure that in the past when my idle was a little bumpy the idle speed had dropped below the normal 600 RPM, as indicated by the factory tach. Since mine hasn't done this in quite a while it may be some time before I can take note of this again. I will say that the first time I seem to recall a "rough" idle was during some very extremely cold weather.

Best regards,
Dusty

ablerus

bpeebles: I have a 5-speed HD manual tranny mounted to a 4.7L Magnum V8. (Sorry - that's as specific as I can get right now).

The quote given to me was for the tranny being dropped. They said that they might be able to only partially drop the tranny to replace the seal, which, would "cost a little less".

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a minor/slow leak - there is fluid "everywhere".

I agree, $744 plus is ludicrous! Thanks, I'm already checking out the local tranny shops...

Yes, I have "babied" my truck. It is run every week, I just prefer to walk to school.

I'm still very curious as to what would cause the seal to blow suddenly.

bpeebles

(ablerus)According to the factory shop manual. The 2000 dakota with a 4.7L V8 has an NV3500 (NV = New Venture)

The NV3500 is a VERY robust tranny. It is used in millions of Dodge and Chevy trucks worldwide.

I cannot think of any way for this seal to "blow" there is absolutely no pressure in the transmission case that can "blow" a seal of any kind. I am wondering if this can be accessed from ABOVE by pulling the shifter and the center console. Once this is removed, the top of the transmission is visiable while sitting in the drivers seat.

This may be just a case of some loose bolts too.

There is the slim chance that the breather for your transmission is plugged up somhow (kinked hose?) This could allow pressure to build up within the xmission possibly causing leakage at the point you are having problems.

I just cannot beleive that you are seeing a whole lot of leakage at that point. There is very little xmission lube up there. (just an occasional 'splashing')

Are you SURE you they are not talking about the front shaft seal? (the shaft between the engine and the xmission.)

BTW: I use RED LINE "MTL" (ManualTransmissionLube) in my NV3500. This special synthetic lube makes it shift much nicer especialy in sub-zero weather.

tiltboy

Thanks bpeebles, yea I have a 2000 QC 4.7 manual 3.55. I guess I will go with the Bosch +4. I have been watching the post on coolant changes, which I also need to do. I may have a few questions about it!

ablerus

F.Y.I. I wrote a nice email to Chrysler and explained the situation to them. They contacted my local dealer and lucky for me, the seal will be fixed at only $100 cost to me. I will certainly try and get an answer as to why the seal blew and suggest that they check the situation out for a kinked hose.

I will keep RED LINE MTL in mind when I move back to more temperate climes...

Now, onto read more about spark plugs, tilting trucks, popping front ends...

mtrialsm

My ball joints are still on back order?
I'll pick my truck up today, they don't want to keep me in a new mini van until parts come in.
What they have fixed;(covered)
Gas tank sending unit replace.
Battery replaced, why I don't know but it was free.
Wiper delay circuit.

What I paid to have done;
Coolant replace.
Auto trans. service.

Mick

dustyk

Yeah, I have to agree with Bpeebles, I don't see why the top seal would "blow," especially if the vernacular that you use is fully descriptive. It is possible for pressure to build up in the transmission if the vent has become plugged, but I would think you'd pop a front or rear seal first. Judging from the pictorial in the service manual, when the shift tower is removed there is not a large opening there, so I wouldn't think you'd get a lot of splash.

My memory is often times faulty nowadays, but I seem to think my son's '91 Dakota had a leak from that area and as I recall there was no gasket there, just an RTV seal. If that's true then a transmission under pressure from a clogged vent would probably "blow" the RTV seal away.

Keep us posted.

Best regards,
Dusty

mtrialsm

Upper and lower ball joints were replace,
not control arms.
mick

mtrialsm

After repairs, ride is better and no more pops/clunks in the front/rear end.
No more shimmy when I hit a bump at speed also.
Cold start hesitation is gone. (new battery
or injector cleaned?) They said battery.
Fuel guage works again.
All have a Merry Christmas.
Sure glad to get my truck back, even thought I was
driving a new Town & Country van for a week!
As far as vans go, it drove very good, but didn't
comepare to the Toyota Sienna I owned and the new
Sienna's are even BETTER!

Mick

dustyk

Mick, the Dakota service manual states that the ball-joints are serviced with the control arms. But that's probably the way Chrysler spares the joint. Most aftermarket components are available in the just ball-joint, the rivets on the old one removed and the new joint bolted on to the old A-arm.

I think when I get to 36,000 miles I'll probably install grease fittings on the joints. Most Dakota owners I talk to haven't replaced ball-joints, but enough have that I believe insufficient lubrication is likely the cause.

Regards,
Dusty

mailman54

mtrialsm: How much did they charge you for replacing your gas tank sending unit? I have had the problem for some time with my 91 Dakota. It shows empty when I first fill up, but the needle floats back to full after a few miles and then is okay. I hate to put a lot of money in a truck with 136K, but if it isn't too expensive, I will consider getting it fixed.

mailman

ronslakie

I recently used a needle injector attachment, to my grease gun, to lube the upper and lower ball joints just as a precautionary measure on my 2K Dak. I have done this with several vehicles I have owned with good results including my 84 Mazda RX 7. The last ball joints I replaced were on a 73 Pinto.

Ron

mtrialsm

Mine were replaced free, the bill didn't have a
cost due to warrentee.
I just glad to get all fixed. I was surprised they
replace upper and lower ball joints without any
fuss. Service manager told me he hadn't replaced
any. Looks like Dodge is replacing ball joints if
any complaints come up.
The swaybar links, frt/rear were all replaced.
Also the wiper module was replaced with just my
word that is was intermitent.
mick

dustyk

.....I think on the '91s are an integral part of the fuel pump. My son has a '91 Dakota and his sending unit has been working like yours for about three years now. I think he told me that the reason he hasn't fixed it was because he'd have to buy a new fuel pump, which are not cheap.

Best of luck,
Dusty

mailman54

Thanks Dusty. That's what I was afraid of. I have lived with it for the last 5 years and it doesn't seem to be getting any worse, so I will probably just let it go til it croaks.

dustyk

By the way, my son is currently in Iraq. His '91 Dakota now has almost 250K on it and despite some rough use still runs without burning a drop of oil.

(3.9 V6, 5-speed)

Regards,
Dusty

mtrialsm

The bill listed "replace fuel pump",electrical short: so I guess it's a complete unit.
mm

dustyk

Do you remember where you got the needle attachment for your grease gun? The AutoZone guy looked at me like I was from another planet when I asked if they had one.

I could use one for my ATV as well.

Best regards,
Dusty

bookitty

Dusty, I purchased mine at Pep Boys. I think that the National Auto Parts chain carries them as well.

Bookitty

bpeebles

I beleive I have even seen them in Wallymart as part of a 'lubrication kit'. There was also a flexable hose for greasing around corners.

ronslakie

I got mine in Pep Boys but I have also seen them in Auto Advantage if you happen to have one near you.

Ron

dustyk

Hey, thanks!

Bests,
Dusty

mhall02

Wow, I thought my '91 was one of the few with the gas gauge not working right!! I bought my 1991 Dakota 8' bed, V-6, 5 speed used in March. It had 113,000 miles on it and needed a few repairs, however, I didn't mess with the fuel sending unit in the tank. It reads empty when I fill it up, moves all over the place till I'm under half a tank then seems to work OK. The fuel light comes on with about 5 gallons left in the tank, so that seems to work. I just reset the trip gauge and at about 300 miles fill 'er up. Dusty, your son's has over 250,000 miles, wow that is great, I hope mine makes it there, I do baby it.

dustyk

Yeah, it didn't sit still until he went to Iraq. He's replaced the powewr steering rack twice, a common occurence with the Saginaw units. He had a pin break in the transmission that left him shiftless once. He replaced the clutch, despite my telling him to leave it alone, and replaced the front coil springs, despite me telling him it didn't need them.

There's been a couple of sets of U-joints, a water pump, and a number of drive belts replaced. Brakes, of course, and three exhaust systems. The heater core is now leaking, I guess. The only rust hole in it is the tailgate, and even that's not too bad.

Good luck with yours.

Dusty

mhall02

After purchasing the vehicle, I put in a new radiator(leaked), new belts and hoses(rotted and old), new brake master cylinder(brake pedal would slowly fall to floor), new water pump(leaked antifreeze), and had a power steering rack put on (blew a seal and leaked ps fluid on the ground) and had a am/fm cd player put in(just for me). Right now the muffler and exhaust has holes, but hopefully the clutch, alt. , starter, u-joints will hang in there, I don't want to dump anymore time or money into it for a while. It seems to run well, burns or leaks maybe a half a quart between oil changes (every 3,000 miles using 10W30 Castrol GTX!)and the 5-speed is geared great for the interstate (compared the the three speed I had in my old '78 Ford F-100). Now with 123,000 miles and most everything fixed we will see how she does.

dustyk

When it comes to cost often times the only difference between a new vehicle (payments) and an older one (repairs) is the down time and inconvenience.

With the exception of one Chevy PU and one Chevy van, I've been relatively lucky. My last car, a '93 Sentra, only cost me $1651 above the price I paid for it to operate it ten years.

As long as you have a Saginaw steering rack, anticipate periodic replacements. Yep. The seals go. The radiator in my son's is still the original, believe it or not, but probably most '91s have had them replaced. I don't remember anyone having starter troubles in those years. After two Midas exhaust systems in three years, my son spent the big bucks and bought Dodge factory exhaust parts. They've been on now for better than five years.

Regards,
Dusty

mtrialsm

My turn signals and radio went out this morning
pulling out of garage (temp in the 20's).
This happened about 6 months ago, I hit the steering wheel and all was well till this morning.
Hitting the steering wheel didn't help. I moved the steering wheel up one notch and the radio and
turn signals came back on. There's a connection in the steering column that seems to be the problem? I could move steering wheel up and down
and problem would come and go. Great I can repeat
this and show my dealer! After driving all day and
the interior warmed up, I could not repeat my finding. My truck is 2wd auto trans.2001 quad.
Mick

ronslakie

mtrialsm - From what I have read in the past it appears as though your problem is the springclock mechanism in the steering wheel. I have never had this problem but I have read on the Dakota Mailing List that others with these problems traced it to this mechanism.

Ron

ferous

I had the same problem with my '90 Taurus. My problem was the wiring harness was 1/4" too short and the connector would come loose. Plug it back in and it would be fine for 6-12 months. The car had over 100K miles on it before this problem happened. Actually the plastic connector had a lock clip that broke and that's why it wouldn't hold together for more than 6-12 months. It only took about 2 minutes to fix each time.

dustyk

Mick, Mtrialsm beat me to it. Although I have heard of clock spring failures on a large number of different cars, for some reason the earlier Dakotas seem to suffer from this more. I, too, would bet that this is the problem with yours.

When I bought my 2003 I asked one of the Dodge service technicians about this and he said that they haven't see many clock spring problems on Dakotas after '02. I inquired as to the root cause and he believed that it was a component quality issue. He did not know if the clock spring components were still being supplied by the same vendor or not.

Good luck,
Dusty

spike50

Being the curious person that I am, I routinely stop by the local dealer's parts counter to pick up a spare copy of their Mopar Magazine. I guess this magazine leans more toward advertising new models, the status of different racing programs, but it also has specific part numbers for brake components, steering or engine parts, etc. Depends on the article. The June or July-03 issue talked about the availability of "reman"ufactured 2.7L and 4.7L short blocks.

Yesterday, I asked the parts guy about the 4.7L short block's price and it was in their computer. Hey guys and gals, keep changing your oil because they want $6,710 for one.

dustyk

At nearly seven-grand I suspect when the moment comes there might be a resurgence in ridge reamer and ring compressor sales and doing your own in the driveway.

Regards,
Dusty

bpeebles

I just looked up my original research when I bought my 2000 Dakota and the 4.7L was only an $590 option. (I got mine for $522)

My question is; "Where are they getting all of the 4.7L blocks to remanufacture?" They have not been around around long enough to start wearing out.

Actually, since it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for any normal shop to seperate the block to rebuild it, It sounds to me as if they are taking advnatage of that fact. No one is seperating a 4.7L or its little brother the 3.7L in their garage.

Some people may forget that the 4.7L (and 3.7L) are quite high-tech with the 2-part block with Nodular Iron bottom plate. Teflon-coated pistons with special ring design. The extreemly close tolerances. Magnesium valvecovers. Low thermal conductive intake manifold. Coil-over ignitors. I still have printouts of the original engineering reviews for the 4.7L engine.

sunburn

That $6700 price has some major dealer profit. If you look under the following URL http://www.berryautos.com/mopar.htm, you will find that a 2002 4.7L short block lists for $1945, and they will sell it to you for $1653. It doesn't say if this is new or remanufactured. I suspect it is new, though. This website has a good listing, with prices, of most parts for your Dakota.

dustyk

Bpeebles, although Spike described the short block price as "reman," I suspect that the price he had been given was for a new engine assembly. The seven-grand price should get you a complete engine, for God sakes.

A friend of mine just put a remanufactured engine (complete) in his GMC and I think he said that the out-the-door price was around three-grand.

It wouldn't surprise me though, as you pointed out, that a 4.7 short block would be more expensive because of the materials, special coating applications, and the way its made.

Best regards,
Dusty

dustyk

Yesterday I had a chance to have a discussion with a group of Dodge techs and picked up some info that might be useful.

BRAKES
As I reported here in another thread, in 2002 the brake components were changed on the Dakota/Durango, including different pads, calipers and rotors. I was told that this has brought the in-warranty replacement rate down to near zero. Prior to 2002 Chrysler bought rotors from five or six suppliers and getting consistent quality was a serious problem. Some would be good while some would be way too soft. It was mentioned that the '98-'99s were probably the worst, although they continually got better. They did say they had one '02 Durango replacement at around 30K, but the rotors were replaced under warranty as good will. The owner had pulled what was though to be a boat way over the towing specification.

HEATER/FAN BLOWER MOTOR RESISTORS
I was told about some low incidence rate of heater/fan blower motor resistors failing. I think someone here has already experienced this. It appears that Dodge made a running change and went from a conventional type of wire wound resistor (rectangular shaped bar) to a new "flat style." It is this flat style that they encountered some failures. I was told they've replace "a few" since changed in 2002.

TRANSMISSIONS
No 545RFE transmissions have failed so far in roughly 1400 units sold since this transmission was introduced. The repair and failure rate is also way down on the remaining "RE" series. One of the techs was the transmission guy and he said that he has yet to work on any auto that was built in or after 2001. He's had a couple of repairs to 2000-built units, but none requiring complete rebuild. He also said that use of the wrong fluid and/or abuse accounts for much of what he sees today, clogged valve bodies the most common. On older Dakotas and RAMs he is replacing solenoid packs, but stated that these are almost always first-time failures. He knows this because the solenoid packs and other valve body components had been upgraded in '99 and he's still finding the old versions when he works on them. This indicates that most of these are probably first time service. He said he just did a '97 (supposedly one of the real bad years) at 155K and was a first time rebuild. Now how many Ford or GMs go that far without a rebuild?

287 (4.7) MOTORS
I was surprised to hear that they had two 4.7s with bad oil pumps. These were early built engines (2001s?). Since those they have had no 4.7s apart for any other reason!!! All four of these guys -- who had also worked at competitive make dealerships -- said they know of no engine that has been as trouble free as the Chrysler 4.7. One of these guys worked at a Toyota store.

I asked about rough idle. They said they've had a few that had this complaint, but no reports of stalling. The universal symptom has been intermittent rough idle, especially during very cold weather. I got mixed opinions about this. One tech said, because they've had a very low incident rate of this, that he thought it was due to a combination of Idle Air Temperature sensor and Manifold Absolute Pressure sensors being at the edge of their acceptable tolerance range. Another fellow, who owned a 4.7 Dakota, said that once the PCM went through the complete temperature range a couple of times, this symptom would decrease in incidence and intensity. Another guy mentioned a PCM flash that was issued back in 2001 to fix this.

I asked about spark plugs and they seem to all agree that on the 4.7 spark plugs are rarely the cause. This one surprised me. I asked about dirty injectors and one tech thought it was sometimes a problem depending on the kind of fuel that was used.

SUSPENSION
I asked about sway bar bushings making noise and the answer was unilateral acknowledgement.

I asked about premature wearing of ball-joints. I was told that in 2002 the suspension components were upgraded, mostly by shifting to another supplier. I asked if they knew who that was and one guy said Moog and another said TRW. In 2002 the lower, upper, and tie-rod joints were enlarged and used a better heat treating process.

Maybe more later.

Happy New Year to all,
Dusty

mopar67

the spiel about the brakes re affirms what I knew all along.........cheap bid=cheap components=disatisfied customers=customer defecting to other brands=decreased sales.......et cetera.

Feel free to mention my name, quote me here on this board if the situation presents itself the next time you have the opportunity to speak to the Dodge techs. Ask them what Dodge can or will do to rebuild consumer confidence in their products.
Mention, if you will, the four sets of replacement rotors I went through. I would love to hear their reaction to that.

dustyk

Mopar, actually they talked about the fact that a certain population of their customers did seem to have repeat problems, but they also felt that those were people that relied heavily on the brakes.

To answer your other question, if Chrysler has addressed issues like this and made corresponding changes to increase component quality, what more can they do? Isn't that what you would want, to improve component quality so that these no longer are issues?

Regards,
Dusty

mopar67

the comment about relying heavily on brakes is like chastising a soldier for relying heavily on his weapon for defense. This demonstrates a very out-of-touch mindset on the part of mopar engineers.

At the least, its a piss poor excuse for aborted product development. As far as I am concerned, this is an issue that never should have surfaced. Designing and building solid, reliable braking systems was a mopar hallmark for a number of years. I know this from personal, not observational experience with other mopars. Its not my job or the job of any purchaser to perform unpaid duties as a product development engineer. I understood, incorrectly as it turns out, that this was "included" in the 23K price tag of the truck I once owned.

What can mopar do? I am not sure at this point. Its like the bad girl in town who changes her ways and goes straight; for a while, no one will believe her. At any rate, it takes a large leap of faith to invest over 20 grand in a vehicle from a manufacturer that blew it the first time. Chrysler is paying six figure incomes to marketing guys in Detroit, let them figure it out.
Then go back and build a solid truck and keep the accountants hands away from the brake budget.

mopar67

but rather the source. I do believe what he says he's simply relaying what he was told.

It's still bs though.

I too once had a love affair with mopar. Believe me, no one had more loyalty to Chrysler products than me except maybe my uncle, god rest his soul. I tore them down, built them up, read countless books, magazines and spend hundreds, if not thousands of hours in garages of enthusiasts.
I researched the entire company, from its beginnings to present day. I got to know about Lynn Townsend, John Ricardo, Steve Sharf, and others. I knew where the KT Keller building was in Detroit. I knew where each and every assembly plant was, what it did, when it was built. I knew people who worked at the factories. I used to spend Saturday afternoons at Daily Motor, part time work, filing invoices and re loading microfiche machines. I learned about part numbers, the byzantine way Chrysler categorized parts. I read countless articles and books about Walter Chrysler, even visited his boyhood home in Hayes Kansas. I used to dream about working in at Chrysler, maybe in sales, maybe in product development or QA. I have read every book imaginable on Lee Iacocca. I used to have a portrait of WP Chrysler in our garage back in Indiana.

Obsession? Yes! I am/was guilty of this. For me, it wasn't enough to know that it was 10w40 summer, 10w30 winter. I wanted to know exacly how my mopar was built. What made it tick. I learned about the virtues of torsion bar suspension, the simple but effective use of leaf springs in the rear, the gear reduction starter, the easy to service and bulletproof alternator, the RV2 compressor, still IMHO, the finest AC compressor built. I also learned to detest Carter Thermojunk Carbs! I learned to carry a spare ballast resistor in the glove box. That too you could set the air gap on the dist. pickup with a matchbook if you didn't have a .007 non-metallic feeler gauge. That the plug gap was .035.

Hell, I even remember the firing order of my old Cordoba 360 v-8, 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2! (also the same for the 4.7 engine)
I had Clymer, Haynes, Chilton, and Motor books.............whew..........did I miss my calling here?

Yes, it was a passionate relationship, heated at times, but always solid until the Dakota.

I liken my parting of ways to a divorce, painful, yet sometimes very necessary. But Chrysler is the ultimate loser because as a consumer, I have many choices out there in the car market.

spike50

sunburn - Thanks for coming up another dealer with an alternate price. I've got it bookmarked for future reference. It would be a heck of a haul from PA but at $2,725 vs. $6,710, it would be worth the trip. Interesting price difference. The $2,725 seems to be in the ballpark based on what my brother pays to get his alcohol drag 426 hemi rebuilt (hobbyist).

I copied this website's info and will pass it back to the local dealership. I'll let you know if they say anything to explain their "continental" price difference.

dustyk

Good Morning!!

>>>the comment about relying heavily on brakes is like chastising a soldier for relying heavily on his weapon for defense. This demonstrates a very out-of-touch mindset on the part of mopar engineers.<<<

Well, I failed to communicate this accurately and that's my fault.

No, I think the guys I talked to are very straight shooters. The message they were imparting was that even during the '98-'99 years not everyone had problems with rotors. This was due to two factors, 1) inconsistent rotor quality from suppliers, and 2) some drivers would use the brakes MORE heavily than others.

Perhaps I should have stated it in the reverse, some people would rely on the brakes MUCH LESS and not experience a problem. What these techs were trying to impart was that rotor performance was suffered from marginal rotor quality. I do know people that own or have owned Dakotas of that time period and most of them have not had experienced premature rotor replacements.

That being said, I'm sure you're aware that in the last eight or so years rotor problems were not unique to Chrysler in the industry. In addition, the aftermarket seems to have had a problem, too. Including myself, I've known a lot of people who had premature rotor warpage with aftermarket stuff. Sometimes it does pay to buy factory, even if that wasn't the case with older Dakotas. My wife's '89 Acclaim went 116,000 miles on factory rotors. Her '99 Avalon has already had two replacements. Since her driving style has not changed, it is a cursory, if not fair assumption that Toyota rotors are not as robust.

Now, please, don't interpret what I've explained as trying to make excuses for Chrysler. As a consumer you have the right to expect better performance out of your Dakota than what you got. With regards to the rotors I suspect that maybe Chrysler was just as much of a victim as you were (I'm checking on something that was told to me a while back), but that's no excuse for not taking care of a customer, whether they be loyal or not.

By the way, I appreciate the fact that despite your disatisfaction with your Dakota and Chrysler, you are not in here contributing just to reinforce something negative.

>>>I wanted to know exacly how my mopar was built...I learned about the virtues of torsion bar suspension, the simple but effective use of leaf springs in the rear, the gear reduction starter, the easy to service and bulletproof alternator, the RV2 compressor, still IMHO, the finest AC compressor built.<<<

You might enjoy this story.

I once worked in a general auto repair establishment and the "master mechanic" was cursing at something he was working on the bench. I walked over and saw a Chrysler starter in the jaws of a vise with a motley collection of screwdrivers inserted through the back end. I asked what the problem was and he said what POS "these Chrysler are" and that they couldn't even make a starter correctly. He was trying to install the armature assembly into the housing and get all four brushes started onto the armature. I asked him what he did with that little four-pronged piece of metal that I knew was on every Mopar starter ever built, and he said he always throws them away because he couldn't ever figure out what they did!

Best regards,
Dusty

mopar67

be a trick to get together properly. But still better than a GM starter anyday!

FWIW......the Ford starters were the easiest. They also ran Fafnir needle bearings in comm end and drive end.

Was that little piece of metal they guy threw away the shift fork?

dustyk

No, it was the tool used to hold the brushes apart so the the armature could be re-inserted into the starter housing. When fully inserted, this little piece of metal slid back onto the shaft assembly and just stayed there. It had no functional purpose with respect to operation. It was merely a tool to make the insertion of the armature assembly easy.

The Mopar gear reduction drive starters were actually pretty strong units, but unfortunately prone to overheating on hard-starting engines (they drew more current, as I recall). For most years they were the only starter to spin an engine close to idle speed, which is one of the reasons they made that...'yip-yip-yip'...sound. The taxi versions usually got a direct-drive starter, which very few guys even knew about.

Bests,
Dusty

bookitty

Dusty, I'm happy that you got Ben (mopar67) pumped up, because it is always great to hear from him. He is always considered a "reliable source" and one of our favorite contributors. Started my new year off! Dusty, your comments as well are always factual, knowledgeable and well thought out.

Bookitty

mopar67

Its been a while since the assembly line at the factory. I did the drive end prep for those units and testing the finished unit. For about 4 hours, I filled in on the line assembling the 3258 starter.
They used bushings but those bushings were much thicker and longer then what GM used. Plus, the drive end was better metal, more of it than the GM units. Ford's drive ends were pretty good too.

Yup, in test the Chrysler starter consistently pulled about 175 amps, more if the reduction gear was too tight. The ford GM units would pull about 140-160 on average.
The GM unit was by far the cheapest made with the solenoid right on the damn unit where it served as a heat sink right to the field coils. I did tear down on GM units and 9 out of 10 had burned coils on the top side next to the solenoid.

Those were the days.........non union low pay but a good incentive to finish college with a degree in hand.

dustyk

My memory doesn't recall ever tearing into a Ford starter. I think in most cases we just replaced them with a rebuilt unit. Yeah, those GMs were not a stunning example of a great starter design, I agree. The Bendix drives were always failing and solenoids, too.

When it comes to Fords my most vivid memory is of my father's '65 Fairlane. It was actually a pretty good car, but in those days the 260-289 water pumps were famous for early failure. My dad's '65 puked the seal for day and I told him I'd be over to where he was do the complete job in the field (I was getting good at it!).

Anyway, thought I was fully prepared but when I got there I found that I had the wrong pump. In that year they made a with A/C, without A/C, automatic trans, manual trans, and one other that I can't remember. When it came to Mopars it was one pump for sixes, one pump for LA-series, and one for "B" blocks. How much simplier could you get. I think it was pretty easy for starter motors, too.

I also agree on those Mopar (Prestolite) alternators. It was either the brushes -- which could be replaced without ever breaking the case open -- or the front bearing was making noise (I still have the Mopar pulley puller for that). Unlike the Ford and GM versions, about one in every ten would be a failed diode.

Book, thanks for the kind words. I try to share my knowledge in a positive way and that's what the majority do in this forum. It's unfortunately obvious that a few are only here to find a reason to throw in a negative comment about Chrysler at every opportunity. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but seventh grade personal attacks are totally uncalled for. It's obvious that I've made an enemy because I've challenged the attempt to cast everything in the same negative way and tried to bring balance to the discussion.

No one is infallible. Because I am a member of that genotype called "human" I, too, make mistakes. But when people base what they say on bias, assumption and hatred, the cause and underlying message eventually becomes crystal clear and intentional.

Hope you guys have a good year.

Bests,
Dusty