Subaru Crew - Future Models II

lilbluewgn02

How about the crocodile head eating Dundee (I heard he might actually make another sequel...this will spare us the pain!)
- Home of Alligators Serge -

hypov

That could work too

-Dave

ateixeira

I think the "Dave Edition" should come first. 60% of buyers would have it pre-customized! LOL

I say revive the BRAT name for the Borrego clone. It's a small two seater and captures the spirit of the original better than the Baja does.

I think Grand Forester would work well. The small size is the only real complaint about the Forester, so the Grand portion addresses that. If an H6 is standard, what's not to like?

-juice

armac13

is not better.

Ross

ateixeira

Yeah, but keep the regular Forester. Those who find it small can move up, no problem. And there are plenty that do (find it small).

-juice

goldencouple1

"Borrego" means lamb; fool or simplton; and in Mexico and Central America: false news. This according to University of Chicago Spanish English Dictionary; Pocket Book Edition.

As to Cayonero -- I knew I'd heard it somewhere before. Claymore -- its a big Stottish sword...and yes, an mine (exploding type) so, ok, no Claymore. Cascade is good. Olympia? Bolero? Rushmore? Driveabout? Carryall? Ourbigsuv? Yourbigsuv? D'oro? Platino? San Juan? (The San Juans of Southern Colorado and N. New Mexico; the San Juan Islands of Puget Sound.) Caja Grande? How about Caja Grande?

ateixeira

Caja Grande is OK as long as it's big and boxy. :-)

-juice

hypov

Isn't that a dishwashing detergent?

How 'bout "Forester All We'll Drive"?

-Dave

rsholland

and applied to a car, I think of Chrysler products; not something I think we want to be associated with.

Bob

hypov

Bouncing off name/trim already existing. Keep it just as "Forester" and use L for Legacy and the I for the current.
i.e.
Forester LXS for the Grand Forester
and
Forester iXS for the current Forester

-Dave

goldencouple1

How about Eutauro or Utoro or U-Tauro.

Or Euterro?
Or U.T.E. = Utility, Transportation, Entertainment.

goldencouple1

armac13

sounds too Ford.

Ross

rsholland

according to that news release from Subaru last week, I don't see anything in the pipeline that's going to be the type of vehicle (Grand Forester, etc.) that everyone is suggesting. That's why I posed the question as to whether the next-generation Outback should become its own model, rather than just remain a different flavored Legacy.

It doesn't have to a complete break, like the Forester/Impreza relationship; but more different than just a raised suspension and different cladding of the current model. Should it have a stretched wheelbase to better accommodate three rows of seats? Should it have a shorter front overhang? Should it have a higher roof line? If it does get a longer wheelbase, should it get two additional small "suicide doors" for better access into the rear seating?

It could still share a lot of components with the Legacy; such as dashboard, front seats, maybe even doors (depending on how it's designed), rear hatch, headlights/tailights, front/rear bumpers, hood(?) and I'm sure much more too.

Bob

rsholland

have a wheelbase between 106" and 113," even those with 3 rows of seats; the MDX, Pilot and new Explorer come to mind. If the next Outback had a wheelbase of 109" or so, which would be longer than the (next) Legacy, it could have 3-row seating.

Bob

ateixeira

Suzuki uses the "Grand" label, too, so it's sort of industry standard. Better than GM's label, "EXT", or the "L" label some european brands use.

Subaru has to be careful, an Outback like that would get too heavy and too pricey. The H6 would have to be standard to pull all that weight. That would pull the price out of the mainstream and hurt sales of the model that (let's face it) is Subaru's life line.

IMO a bigger, heavier, and H6-equipped SUW should be a separate, lower-volume model. People buy the Outback because it is car-like, so making it another Explorer won't help sales.

-juice

rsholland

this is a better analogy, in terms of what I'm suggesting:

Think of the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban relationship.

Currently:

Legacy = Tahoe
Outback = Tahoe Z-71

My suggestion:

Legacy = Tahoe
Outback = Suburban

I would also suggest keeping a SWB Outback, on the same shorter wheelbase as the Legacy, but re-label it as "Outback Sport." I would then re-label the current Impreza Outback Sport, as the "Impreza RV."

In Australia the Outback Sport is called the Impreza RV. It's the same as our Outback Sport, except it comes with a 2.0L engine, and has the dual-range manual tranny. I'm assuming that "RV" refers to "Recreational Vehicle."

I've always had a bit of trouble with the "Outback Sport" name being applied to an Impreza, when all the other Outbacks are Legacy-based. I think the Aussie solution makes much more sense, and is more in keeping with other labels used internationally, such as TS, RS, WRX, GX, GL, etc.

Bob

ateixeira

I completely understand what you are saying, but I just don't think that will work well for sales. Outback is the volume model and should be size "medium", not "large".

I just don't see the completely unknown Legacy replacing the Outback in the medium (i.e. high volume) segment.

Unless - A HA! - unless Subaru begins to promote the Legacy, and I mean heavily. We saw the 2.5GT in NY, that's a start, with Shiftronic and VTD. Give it an H6 model, then a manual with the H6. Maybe a turbo (limited edition) model as well, to draw attention to the label "Legacy".

That change must come first. People see my wife's car and say "so you bought a new Outback?", I swear.

-juice

rsholland

applies the word "Grand" to an up-level V-6 version of their SWB Vitara. The LWB version is called the XL-7.

Sorry, every time I hear "Grand," I think of Chrysler products first. I guess it's because they made the name so commonplace.

I would much rather see Subaru come up with a word that is unique, and not used by some other brand.

Bob

rsholland

<< Unless - A HA! - unless Subaru begins to promote the Legacy, and I mean heavily. >>

As long as Subaru keeps the Legacy in the closet, in terms of marketing, it will never take off.

Bob

ateixeira

Yep, the dealership had a Forester, an Outback, and a TS wagon in the showroom. I was surprised to even see the TS, you'd expect an OBS.

The Legacys are scattered between the several dozen Outbacks. They had 3 Legacys, THREE, and countless Outbacks.

Fix that first, then make the Outback bigger.

-juice

rsholland

was the last time you saw a Subaru TV commercial touting the Legacy? I don't EVER recall seeing one!

You see Outback and WRX commercials all the time, but never a Legacy commercial.

Bob

ateixeira

Me neither.

I'm not sure I've seen any new ads for the non-WRX Imprezas, either. Maybe they figure the WRX will draw them into the showrooms, and if they buy an OBS then fine.

-juice

qbrozen

I think every manufacturer does this. Its most likely a money issue, not a support issue. I can't think of any manufacturer that has a commercial for each vehicle in its lineup. Actually, I think Dodge has the right idea with those commercials that show one of everything lined up. Oh, wait a minute, does Nissan have a commercial for everything? I think maybe it does. So I could be wrong. But, what about others. Does Toyota have a Prius commercial? What about the Spyder? I don't remember seeing any. Again, I could be wrong. One thing, I'm almost positive I've never seen a full-sized van ad from anyone.

Anyway, I think Juice has a point. The idea is to suck them in with your best products (or most expensive) and let them discover the other vehicles for themselves.

BUT, on the other hand, I think not showing your only non-compact sedan is a mistake.

rsholland

"product lineup" commercial Subaru has, is the one showing crash results, which is pretty effective.

Bob

subearu

The TV ad and radio ads (the crash results ones, "if everyone drove a Subaru") play quite a bit around here.

Although, I keep hoping to hear something like "and now the B4 Blitzen at a dealership near you" :-)

-Brian

lark6

The crash test ad is the only one I can think of featuring a non-OB Legacy. I have seen a very few print ads for the GT sedan, mostly in Road&Track. IIRC the last-gen GT sedan was featured in a TV ad with Judge Reinhold as pitchman(?).

As we all know, Jennifer Lopez (not the one on The Weather Channel) pitches Legacies in Japan, one of many US celebs who pitch products over there. If she did it here it would be a big boost for Legacy sales - though the models she pitches in Japan aren't available here...yet.

Ed

ateixeira

I like that ad too, Bob. It definitely draws your attention.

In the US, JLo may send the wrong message. Remember how Cindy Crawford destroyed the Catera launch?

Use of models turns off professional female buyers, i.e. Forester owners. You have to tread carefully.

-juice

lark6

Point taken, juice. I forgot about the Catera, guess because it's such a forgettable car.

I guess that opens up the floor for discussion: who would be a good celebrity pitchperson for the Legacy models in North America? Or should there be one at all?

Ed

ateixeira

I say get a Rally Car driver to be spokesman for the whole Impreza line. Keep Croc Dundee for the Outback, because even if you don't like it you have to admit he sells cars. For the Forester you have Martina, maybe use other female tennis players as well.

Anna K? Oops, can't go there again! ;-)

Legacy? Tough call. There IS no theme, no slogan, nothing to build on. Maybe start with the IIHS crash test, and have some celebrity moms pitch the car with a focus on safety. Doesn't Glen Close drive a Subaru? Forester, but close enough.

-juice

hypov

Scene:
Batman gets summoned
Batman and Robin slides down to the bat cave
Both hustles to the Bat Mobile
Just as the two were about to jump in, they noticed a foot of snow outside
They both look at each other.
Scene breaks and flashes to outside bat cave
Suddenly, punching out of the bat cave through the snow covered road, out comes the Legacy L
Scene zaps to within the Legacy's cockpit
Batman at the wheel and his trusty sidekick by his side (rear shot, so you could see them punching through the snow covered twisty road)
Batman turns to Robin, "Good call Robin."

"The All wheel Drive Subaru Legacy, when a lot is depended upon..."

-Dave

armac13

Have you missed your true calling, or do you do this for a living? I like the concept. In Vancouver papers we have been getting Legacy ads over the last few months. They remind me of the VW ads of the '60s. They say things like "Subaru Legacy? Never heard of it."

Ross

paisan

The catera is a great car. It's a Holden Commodore in it's stripped down form. Now had they made the catera a clone of the commodore SS we'd be talking (5.7l, traction control, 6speed MT, )

-mike

hypov

I think I missed the boat, Ross.

-Dave

lilbluewgn02

was actually an Opel chassis clone as is the new CTS

FrankMc

If only we could come up with the perfect name for the Legacy based Forester, they would build it. We have all seen "Field of Dreams" and this would work as well.

Frank

lark6

I always thought the Catera was based on the Opel Omega, which is somewhat similar to the Opel Vectra that forms the basis of the big (L-series) Saturn. In fact IIRC the Catera and L-series have the same engine, although I believe a bit detuned for the Saturn. what makes a good Saturn doesn't necessarily make a good Cadillac. Is a Cavalier = Cimarron analogy appropriate here?

Ed

subearu

the spokesperson for the Legacy. (afterall, I am a celebrity, he he [see Drive magazine]). I'd be especially glad to be the spokesperson for the Blitzen or H6 or GTT (my name for the 'juiced' Legacy). Where do I sign?

Of course, they need to actually MAKE these in some form or another here. I'll be waiting...

-Brian

ateixeira

I like it, but use the GT in that ad. Better yet, a Blitzen. Hey, maybe they could do something with Santa Claus in a Legacy around Xmas time, replacing his sleigh?

That Catera was actually a watered down Opel Omega, I think. Vectra is smaller (my brother owns one), and that became the Saturn L (though they used the Omega's engine). So yes, the same engine block in the Saturn L was used for the Catera, and Saab as well, curiously. All were tuned differently, though.

Maybe the Holden is yet another clone of that platform. I drove a Catera at Edmunds Live and it was the near-luxury car that impressed me the least. In fact I liked the V6 Camry and Maxima better.

The US-spec Catera was tuned with ridiculous amounts of understeer, positively silly in a RWD car! Plus it's heavy and feels sluggish. Top it off with an ad campaign that offended its intended market, and you have a flop, ladies and gentlemen.

Plus, Europe and Brazil get manual transmissions to go with their sportier tuning in this fine RWD platform. Go figure.

-juice

goldencouple1

This one's a sure hit because it is in honor of my ancestry: Ridgerunner or Ridge Runner or Ridge-Runner.

I will humbly accept one of the completed vehicles in return for the name.

storyteller

If Forester remains the name for the little SUV the big one would obviously be the LUMBERJACK!!! Isn't that the best name ever? The wimpy CR-V comes with a picnic table; we'd sell the giant LUMBERJACK with a man-sized chainsaw in the back and maybe a Peavey Pole. Instead of cupholders for latte sippers the LUMBERJACK would have a big spitoon in the center console so a man could blow his chew from time to time.

Well, okay, maybe not. Hmmm, so how about Timberjack? Logger? Silviculturist? Arbor Whacker? I feel like I'm getting close to something good. Or is it time to adjust my meds?

Steve

lark6

The initial review of the Forester S turbo in the UK's CAR magazine was titled "I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..." No joke.

Ed

PS: Steve: Kept getting booted out of chat tonight - let me know if you have Qs re 3M Stongard.

rsholland

artgecko

'...I sleeps all night, and I works all day!"

Steve

armac13

just like my dear PaPa". Monty Python's only mention of British Columbia I believe.

Ross

paisan

I don't care what you guys say, from my research it is a commodore, now the commodore may be a modified Opel, but the systems in the catera are directly out of the commodore.

Funny enough, my sales buddy who used to race cars and is very performance oriented loved the catera, except for the reliability factor of it.

-mike

lark6

I researched as well. Omega and Catera are on the GM2800 platform. Holden took that platform and made it longer and wider for the Commodore, the Ute, and the Monaro (soon to be the US' new Pontiac GTO?).

Ed

ateixeira

Spitoon and a chainsaw, LOL!

paisan: you never care what we say. ;-) I said they might be clones.

-juice

paisan

Well the catera is no more so it's not an issue.

I'm now trying to figure out if the new caddy has a rodeo engine.

-mike

lark6

LOL, paisan.

Catera is gone but GTO is coming. I actually will pay attention to this intro as my father had a '68 GTO which I, sadly, never got to drive.

Ed