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Comments
a) WRX STi
b) Blitzen
c) Forester turbo
d) Legacy H6
e) old Yugo, broken, with the owner pushing
Sadly, the answer is E because SoA hasn't sold any of those here yet!
-juice
Apologies if previously discussed. WebX search performed nominally (read: useless) and returned 0 results.
Cheers,
..Mike
..Mike
I don't like that they call it a flagship, that implies prices above the VDC, or $35k. Fitz has VDCs selling for $26.7k, just to get an idea how real-world prices had to be adjusted.
So, gimme one for $28k street price, at least less than $30k.
-juice
-Brian
So juice, do I take it that you're one of many who won't pay above a certain price for something with a Subaru badge? Nothing wrong with that, and not implying that I would - but then I may not pay that much for any make of car.
Something tells me FHI and others are carefully watching what happens with VW's Touareg (sp?) and Phaeton.
Ed
If Subaru wants a flagship, fine, but please, please offer a more basic version that I can afford.
So Beans now sell for $25k (street price), gimme the same stuff in a slightly bigger car for $27-28k. If they want to sell a model with a Momo wheel, McIntosh stereo, and other cosmetic frills to the rich, then be my guest. But the fact that they have to knock $7 grand off the MSRP of the VDC says everything.
Did you see the latest C&D? The Passat W8 was dead last in their comparo. It didn't do well at all, in fact, being slow, inefficient, and handling poorly.
That thump you hear is the sound of Piech falling down - his head got too big for his body to support it.
-juice
Bob
This isn't the first time this year that we've heard mention about a 'flagship' model from Subaru. Makes me start to doubt any 'hot' changes will come to the '04/5 Legacy when they're concentrating on a flagship instead.
BTW, anyone read the VW article in Automobile? A dial to select AWD lock modes on the Tourareg (sp). Who says manufacturers are decontenting?
-Brian
-mike
Pick GT30 from the Legacy dropdown.
-Brian
Slowly frustrated in Seattle,
Stephen
Bob
I weep every time I go to the .jp site and see their version of 'the beauty of AWD'.
-Brian
Stephen
Having said that I still look forward to a B4 (well actually I want a GTB wagon!). Also, if Subaru could do a 2.2 turbo 10 yrs ago for very low production run, I would think it would not be too difficult to supercharge or turbo the 2.5 today, let alone take the B4 engine stateside!
FWIW., went to look at the 03 GT at local dealer, finally found a salesman who really knew his Subes. His take on future engines was that a turbo Legacy and Forester would come before an H6! He obviously smokes the same stuff we do here! GT wheels look like they are the same as the Bajas.
One exception, though - gimme the big engine.
Where's Ed's review of the WRX? :-)
-juice
-juice
Yes there's turbo lag and yes, it is slower to 60 than the MT version, but seriously, nothing I couldn't live with. I have to wonder if the people who complain about the turbo lag are professional racers or just parroting what they've heard elsewhere. I mean really, are you going to lose prize money over it? This car is so muck quicker than any stock Subaru product I or most Americans have driven (and no, I've never driven an SVX, so there) that there's no comparison. At 2800-3000 rpm it just feels like an invisible hand grabs the car, yanks it forward and keeps pulling. The salesman commented that with the AT it's "boring" and "just a commmuter car" and he has a point, but who has to be on the boil 100% of the time?
It is seriously undertired with the OEM rubber. My Forester's tires have better grip. As it is it still handles nicely, very predictable through the twisties.
I rode in the rear seat of Dennis' wagon afterward (we met there and went to lunch) and found it more comfortable and supportive than that in my Forester. Then again, the last-gen Forester must have the hardest, flattest rear seat in Subedom.
One thing I found a little disturbing: when I turned on the WRX headlights I heard a very loud clicking from the glovebox area - headlight relay? I've never heard such a noise when turning on the lights in any other Subaru I've driven. Lack of sound insulation, maybe?
As for the GT with Sportshift, I took out a titanium wagon. It had been a long time since I rowed my own gears, but the Sportshift made it easy for a schlub with bad knees like me. Shifts were not immediate upon flicking the shifter, however; it felt like there was about a tenth of a second delay in response. Nonetheless it did let me take each gear up to redline and bounce it off the limiter. I suppose there could be some computer reprogramming to crispen up the response. The GT wagon is still too heavy IMO for the EJ25 but the Sportshift does allow you to get more out of that engine than by just leaving it in "D". Of course having the option to leave it in "D" makes it the best of both worlds.
Both cars have nice leather steering wheels. The GT's leather seats weren't to my liking, but then I don't like leather upholstery in general so I may not be the one to judge.
After both drives I am left scratching my head as to why Subaru did not see fit to put the Sportshift in the WRX. they say "when you get it, you get it," but I just don't get it. Even with the little delay it'd work so much better than the standard AT in getting the power out of the turbo.
I think I could live with the GT wagon w/Sportshift if it had the H6, or some other 200hp+ engine with gobs of sub-3K torque. I am trying to convince myself I could live with the WRX wagon, because even with the AT and OEM rubber, it was a blast to drive.
Ed
I bet you the H6 goes in the Legacy and they call it the 3.0 GT, it's a strong feeling I have. Right now the L/SE is so nice that I can't see making the HUGE price leap into a 2.5 GT. The GT needs something of substance to justify the much, much higher price.
The H6 is it.
However, even that engine doesn't have the gobs of low end torque you want. Have you sampled a Bean or a VDC? Nice engine, feels like it belongs in a Lexus. But it's still not sporting.
Who knows, the Legacy has 7% shorter gearing, so the H6 may just feel sporty enough in that car. I would just love to see that for 2004.
-juice
I did see a number of L/SE wagons and sedans on the lot; look like quite the bargain. I know what SoA did with all the leftover '97-02 GT alloy wheels, though ;-). No Bajas on the lot.
Ed
I have seen more WRX's in my area. Strange though - it seems to be males over 40 that I've seen driving them. I think I even saw a red one!
-Brian
I do think Subaru should resist getting into a HP war with everyone else. It's similar to the MHz war in the PC industry. In both cases, there is much more to the picture than whose numbers are bigger. Yeah, the Altima has 240HP (overpowered for FWD if you ask me), but it didn't sway my wife, nor did it stop her from buying a 165-HP Forester with a 4-cyl engine!
I'll take a well balanced Subaru over a hot rod pretender like the Altima anyday.
Craig
Maybe FHI is waiting for Prodrive to finish their consumer version of their manual/auto shifter and put THAT on the WRX. :-)
Like the other Dennis mentioned, I think part of it is that Subaru is a low-volume U.S. manufacturer. I believe we've proven with the WRX that if they import it, we will buy it.
-Dennis
-Dave
The 2.5GT gives you VTD, which I find very desirable, and the shiftronic is the only way I'd even consider an auto, but is that enough to justify the $4500 difference?
IMO, no. $2 grand yes, but not $4500 difference in current street prices.
The Bean is a better value, you got a lot more equipment plus the H6 for almost the same money (OK, about $1 grand more, but still).
That's why the 2.5 GT needs to become the 3.0 GT.
I think Fitzgerald's owner thinks the same way - they have no plain L models, but tons of L/SEs. That's odd because last year Ls and GTs combined were far more rare.
-juice
Also odd (but not quite as odd) that the GT wears the same rubber as the WRX
Again, I don't get it.
Ed
That is downright strange. Those things are worth more, and then why is the 5 speed GT so much more costly than a L/SE?
"Sport suspension"? Oh c'mon. The L has springs, the GT has springs of a slightly higher rate, maybe? Thicker sways? These are upgrades that cost hundreds, not thousands.
OK, heated leather, but that too is worth $1000 or so. With the current line up I don't see much value in the GT 5 speeds.
-juice
Ed
Rear LSD, though. Heated leather. A few other nick-nacks, but not $4500 worth.
-juice
Ed
I guess you get the heated leather, rear LSD, VTD, and shiftronic. Besides little details, that's about it.
Heated leather is worth a grand. The rear LSD used to be only part of the $400 AWP, so it's worth less than that. VTD and shiftronic some with the auto, and I'm comparing it to an L/SE auto.
I dunno, for $24k, I'd stretch to $25k and get a Bean, no doubt. Even though I prefer the look and tuning of the GT.
-juice
Not so much a future model as a "past," subaru in Germany sold a Forester "Style" variant which included, among other things, 225/45-18 tires on BBS alloys.
I don't want to hear a peep out of anyone who says that a Forester cannot run a wheel/tire combo larger than 215/60-16 without problems.
Ed
I should let Ed drive the SVX, he'll be saying WR-what?
-mike
AT WRXs in other markets have the sportshift.
paisan: Maybe so but SVXs are all used - in some cases VERY used - cars now. They are also not wagons. Further their wheel bearing failures are even more widely known than the Foresters'. All that said I wouldn't mind driving one; I remember seeing them new in '92 and thinking them very exotic. Love the dash material; wish I could get alcantara upholstery in a Subaru.
Ed
There are a bunch of '96 and '97s floating around with low milage at big discounts. Remember buying a used car @ $8 or $10K is a lot less than $25k for a new one. As for wheel bearings, there is a TSB on them being tightened properly. It's not a matter of weak bearings, just improper installation.
-mike
-mike
Practical, no. 45 series for the potholes here? Maybe they should offer 17s here, though.
Patti: tell product planning to offer shiftronic and factory 17" wheels on the WRX, for Ed's next car.
How could I miss my Blitzen? Forgive me Crew, for I have sinned.
-juice
While I was at Flemington getting the car serviced I saw 2 SVXes; a sharp teal one running the same 17" Superleggeras I have (forget what tires) and a maroon one that had been through the wringer.
Ed
I just read your report -- nice write up.
So, if you had to choose between a WRX or GT (both AT) today, which would it be?
Ken
Ed
Just curious since we both seem to be "shopping" for similar vehicles.
Ken
-Dave
Since my next vehicle purchase will most likely come in '04 I'd have to try to look into a crystal ball about my future needs vs. wants. I doubt that they will change so radically that I will need a completely different class of vehicle. For example, will my job change such that I don't have to haul around multimedia and training equipment? What if we start a family? Will we need an enormous people hauler for just one child? I know single-child families where the parents felt compelled to go out and buy a minivan. My parents hauled me around in a '67 Mustang and a '68 GTO and did not pack enough supplies to mobilize the 101st Airborne every time we left the house. I think the Forester and Impreza have enough leg room for most children until at least age 10, so that pushes the need for a larger vehicle out to 2014.
Based on that logic I would just keep the Forester or go for an Impreza TS wagon, but that ignores the fun factor and the "wants" entirely. In any case the Forester will likely stay in the family as my wife has made rumblings that she'd like to take it over when I pay it off.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ed