Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The French will BOMB if they bring those bizarre designs over here (Megane, Picasso, etc.). Quirky here also means "expensive to fix" and maybe even "unreliable" to US customers. The styling alone will scare people off.

    I bet those mechanics got tired of fixing them, maybe using OE parts that would fail again right away, who knows. I'm sure there is a reason for it, why would they turn away business? Maybe their customers were never happy, i.e. the car never ran right.

    I'm sure modern French cars are night-and-day different, but they have a major, major negative stereotype to overcome, especially considering they would not be competing on price.

    My brother literally pushed his last Renault (in Brazil) to the Honda dealer to buy his Civic. You're just not going to talk customers with memories like that into buying another quirky French car.

    -juice
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Member Posts: 621
    9 new posts since my last check, not one of them about a Subaru. :( Darn, I was hoping for more cool links to the 05 Legacy/Outback? redesign. Instead, there's just talk about Renault and Peugeot. image
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Not knowing much about French cars I am wondering about standards. Here is my one take on French products. In the 1970's when I first got interested in bicycles I bought a Gitane bike from France. (I was almost afraid to bring it home from college because my father disliked the French--and yes it was 1971 and had nothing to do with Iraq). It was a low cost bike but had a really high quality frame so being a poor college student I slowly upgraded the components to make it more of a racing bike. But you could not easily upgrade the crank or headset because the botom bracket and headset were FRENCH THREADED. Yes US, UK, Itallian, Japanese and all other nationalities used a standard number of threads per inch but not the French. Oh yes and French and the Russians were the only two countries to go with the SECAM TV standard rather than the PAL or NTSC standards used everwhere else. Kinda worries me about other French techno products!
    TWRX
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Juice- the point I think was that the freedom loving mechanic refused to work on French cars...it was just an oil change shop.

    xporx4- happens around here sometimes. I wonder what class towing hitch the Espace would take? Especially the 3.0 diesel? (there, NOW I've done it!)

    Ed- agreed. I'm getting sick of the writing in Autoweek and Automobile, 2 mags that used to be great for writing. Lots of passive voice, use of cliches, wordy sentence structure, split infinitives. An increasing ignorance of the fundamentals. Never mind the journalism- in last week's Autoweek "Quick Drive" Audi A8, the send guy blew his entire allocation of print complaining about the radio. We can continue this in the Cafe I suppose.....
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Ooh! Ooh! Switch the "p" and "c" in "Espace" and you have "Escape" - Ford's rival to the Forester. The similarity between names is why Ford revived a 1970's moniker and sells that little SUV in Europe as the "Maverick."

    How's that for bringing it closer to on topic?

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Andreas Zapatinas, Subaru's new head designer, used to work for Alfa (not French but at least European). That's almost on-topic. ;-)

    Loosh: Oops!

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    it would have been a:

    2000 Espace Odessey

    badump!
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Yep, they have (or perhaps had) their own weird threads for some items. I had a Peugeot, bought it for the same reason you bought your Gitane -- good bang for the buck. However back then upgrade parts were generally available in whatever thread you needed; French, British (some oddballs) Italian, Japanese, American (again, some oddballs). Even now the 'standard' Japanese thread doesn't care much for the 'standard' Italian/European thread; the Japanese threads are straight edged and pointed, while the Europeans round theirs off.

    But hey, it's a rich history. Did you know that at one time all American cars used different hardware, and that a mechanic had to have a set of tools for each make? Or that during the railroad boom each company placed their tracks a different distance apart so that competitors' cars could not run on them? Stuff like that has a rich history, and it is why the term "engineering standards" has some firm footing as an oxymoron :-)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    *cough* Subaru Crew Cafe *cough*

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    this "French" discussion is perfect for the Cafe, not here.

    Bob
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Oui!
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Loosh wrote: "Had Honda Built it 2 years ago it would have been a:
    2000 Espace Odessey"

    Yeah, BUT, if they waited one more year, it would have been a "2201 Espace Odyssey"

    Len
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    2001. That's what I meant to say. oops. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe if Renault and Honda merged! :-)

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_image_boost_subaru/index.htm
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.floridasports.com/story.cfm?story_id=5166&departme- ntID=20
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    9k per month for the Forester and 2k for the Baja are optimistic, they do just slightly more than half that volume now. A turbo won't double volume.

    Realistically, 6000 for the Forester, maybe 1500 for Baja. It's been 900-1200 for the latter.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Management sits on the sales force for unrealistic numbers while dangling some fun incentive like a trip or whatever. Then when the sales team "fails," the incentive is yanked and everyone points the finger.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester sales have hovered around 5k per month since they came out, no way will the most expensive model double sales, no way no how. Ain't happenin'.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.automobear.com/2004%20Subaru%20Legacy%20better,%20tigh- ter.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Side-by-side, the old one does look a little frumpy. On its own it's not a bad looking car, that says how nice the new one looks.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg_drive/images/leg_1.jpg
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    testing the new Legacy at Fuji Speedway.

    http://www.apexjapan.com/ Then click on: 2003/07/04: What it's like to test a car at the track with Apexjapan... In the Editorial section on the upper right.

    What a life!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob and paisan: this is what that test drive thing ought to evolve into. :-)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm sure itching to test drive one. Whatever the hottest manual tranny equipped one is available at launch, I'll be there. :)

    I'm nicer that that though. A little.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Interesting read, Bob. So is Paul Hansen a professional driver turned car site editor or just one very lucky car enthusiast?

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Everyone drives like Hurley Haywood when they're doing the writing. :) He's a fair writer, the rest is irrelevant right?

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    and I have e-mailed one another several times, a few months ago. He's actually a graphic designer/Subie nut, who along with a couple of other Subie nuts (Anthony, aka "Another B4," over at nasioc), and another guy, whom I don't know; put together Apexjapan.com.

    I think(?) they're transplanted Aussies, now living in Japan, but I'm not sure of that.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.modernracer.com/history/subarulegacygthistory.html

    On page 2, in the specs, it mentions 250 HP for USA version.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that would be enough for me! don't care if it's a 2.5L turbo or naturally aspirated H6, just gotta have a manual. :)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    After driving the 2.5T and the H6, I'm hoping for a 2.5T. Don't even change the tuning from the Forester, it's making 250hp already anyway. Don't believe Subaru.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Having driven both *current* engines myself, I'd certainly agree. But today's H6 is only 212HP and it feels like a pretty soft 212 to me --could easily be the automatic, though.

    A future one better have more grunt and variable valve timing, otherwise why bother at all? The new 2.5T is awesome.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell us about it, did you try an XT? I haven't heard your review.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I didn't post anything because I was so amazingly peeved at the lousy excuse for a dealer. Only one within 90 miles, too.

    So I was trying to be nice and not say anything at all... Short short version: the engine is sublime. Still want a stout flat six, though. :)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's good to hear people agree with me, I wasn't imagining things. I bet you drove a 5 speed. The auto is quick, but does not accelerate NOW like the manual XT does.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Colin:

    Aw, c'mon -- not even a quick write-up?

    Seriously, we'd love to hear your impressions. Your one of the more experienced drivers here -- your words carry a lot of weight.

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    ....must resist....MT XT....must...resist...

    Anyone know how big the OEM moonroof is on the Forester? I suppose I could suffice with an ASC aftermarket roof. I had asked over in the Forester topic but hadn't heard back from anyone, they must be too busy ;-)

    Been quite busy lately (adjusting to 2 kids has been a challenge), still haven't had a chance to take the XT for a test drive.

    -Brian
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    The result is a fantastically seamless and progressive power delivery which thrusts the Legacy forward eagerly and voraciously. It's no secret the manual has significantly more punch, but even the automatic GT delivers huge rewards under power.
    Carpoint.com.au
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Papa Bear: we measured once, it was discussed in the Forester thread.

    paisan's Troopah actually has a bigger one, if you can believe that. It was close though. Both are immense.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/reviews/reviewstory.asp?ID=5001
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Neat article. It wasn't clear to me, however, which turbo the GT gets -- 2.0 or 2.5?

    ...and what the heck is "Aeroplane Jelly"?

    Ken
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    http://www.everythingaustralian.com/aerjelmanman.html
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    Forester XT AT. Amazing seamless power. The dealer didn't have an MT, but they are to call me when they do. Now I just have to get the wife to drive one, she claims to not care for them. She'll get a quick education when she's behind the wheel. The one I drove was a Premium version, with leather and the whole nine yards. One thing I was kind of uncertain about was the "waffle" patterned treatment on the tops of the door interiors and then carried across the dash. It's not TOO bad, but I'm not sure it fits the personality of the car.

    Jim
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Loosh: It's just Australian Jell-O?. I was hoping for something a little more exotic than flavored gelatin. At least it's not yeast-extract flavored.

    Ken
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    The H6 may go the way of the VW W8. The W8 was a neat idea but I think its going to die. As far as the W8, its heavy and has way under 300hp so why bother? I felt the same way after driving the current Subaru H6. Its is smoother, more refined, and more quiet than the H4 but it cost a ton more at the time. Why bother if its not going to be a standard option on the OB or a $750 option? Granted since I started seeing the VDC models creep near $29k we were mildly interested again but not enough for my wife to give up her 2k OB H4 Ltd just yet.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    The magazines are saying that the H6 will get a bump in h.p. to around 245 h.p. or so.

    -Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I like the instantaneous response of naturally aspirated power, that's why. :)

    It's also easier on emissions compliance. Turbocharged engines are tougher to certify.

    -Colin
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    So I'm not a fan of the current H6 and I'm REALLY not a fan of how it was introduced.

    First, its got potential but I doubt its putting out much more than 200hp in its current form. I just dont buy the tall gearing theory yet. If they can squeeze 40-50 real hp out it I would be really impressed. I would like to see the 2.5T from the XT in the OB and compare it to the H6. My guess is that response would be better all around (except refinement) than the H6.

    Second, it was restricted to the VDC/Bean. It should have been standard in all OB models from the base up from the start. I would not have introduced the VDC and Bean models at all but thats a different story.

    Third, no 5spd/6spd!!!! What??? Once again, from the start it would have been an option in all OB models. Practical and fun. Thats the mantra.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    oh I think the current EZ30 H6 really does make advertised power.

    It's just that it feels soft, to me, in a 3700lb vehicle with an automatic transmission.

    Add variable valve timing to give more midrange punch *and* top-end 'zing', plus put it in a 500lb or more lighter car, plus give it a manual transmission...

    Well let's just say if Subaru offers that combination I'd be interested to test drive it. Not that I have major issues with the XT's low-boost 2.5T when coupled with a 5 speed... NICE.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, the current tuning of the H6 likes revs. It's not really responsive low in the rpm range. IMO the 2.5T steps off the line much, much quicker. Maybe there's a split second delay with a 2.5T auto, but it makes up for it in another split second, and then it's gone.

    It must be that 4EAT, even with the 2.5T is saps a lot of the fun. So sure, I'd try an H6 with a MT5, better yet, 6.

    -juice
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