Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I presume you guys mean ic water spray. Water injection is a different animal altogether. :-)

    I say anywhere from 250-280.

    -Dennis
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    258-273, 15 hp. variance. Or is that a 7.5 hp variance... :)

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll low ball it and say 246 hp. That's specifically so they can beat the Altima's output and claim best in class power (Maxima is one size up).

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Mercedes Reaches Out To Gen X

    Mercedes-Benz North America this weekend kicks off a 16-city tour called "The C-Spot Drive Party," at which Generation X are invited to attend a local race track or stadium, test drive the lineup of C-Class vehicles on special courses. It's the biggest event promotion the company has ever carried out.

    The events also feature music, food and several co-sponsors who are sampling their wares and handing out goodies.

    Mercedes is trying to beef up Gen X appeal at a time when BMW, which has historically scored much better with young buyers, is about to launch a new 1-Series in Europe next year with North America to follow in 2005, and an X3 SUV next year. The entry-level luxury market as a whole is crowded with new entries from Infiniti, Cadillac, Lexus, and Acura.

    Saks Fifth Avenue, furniture retailer Design Within Reach, Coca-Cola/POWERade, Continental Tire, Fine Living, Interactive Health, LG Refrigerators, SIRIUS Satellite Radio, The Ritz-Carlton, and Wilson Sporting Goods are all co-sponsoring with a presence at the events. The tour kicks off in Houston this weekend, and finishes at Phoenix in September. —Jim Burt
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    It must be something to do with SoA's legal team. So many manufacturers are having similar events now. I think Mazda is doing it this summer.

    -Dennis
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,783
    and how the heck do i find out more about these events and their schedules? Seems like I am always one step behind and hear about them when they are over.

    i see something on the MB website about "summer event" but i don't have flash here at work. i also suspect that is probably just some sale and not what we are talking about.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but Mazda is making people pay to enter, which is a little odd. I've been to events hosted by Edmunds, BMW, Mercedes (twice), and Volvo, and all were no charge.

    I checked the M-B web site and could not get info on the C class event, if anyone finds a link please share it.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    mazda's pay-to-enter only makes sense because there is real prize money at stake! obviously it is attracting professional-level talent because of that, too.

    -Colin
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    so, the world will change next year, huh ! Please note that there is not a single Japanese competitor in this market segment........Here comes the Sube !

    Audi S4 has 340hp ?
    http://autos.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4020985&amp- ;amp- ;amp- ;src=Home&pos=Edit1
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Depends on how you classify a few vehicles, but I'd include the FX35 and FX45 from Infiniti, the RX330. The MDX is more van-like than wagon-like.

    The new generation, V8 S4 does. The twin turbo V6 is history.

    -juie
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    MB C Spot Party - I have my confirmation right here for August 2 at Gillete Stadium south of Boston. It's similar to a Volvo event I did last summer. Get to drive and test without salespeople, listen to some presentations, have a nice lunch.

    How to get on the invitation list? I think by signing up at the manufacturer websites and give them permission to send you direct mail.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Legacy

    Base engine:
    2.5 DOHC AVCS H-4 with ~ 180 HP

    Mid-level engine:
    2.5 DOHC AVCS H-4 with 210 HP turbo found on the Forester XT & Baja turbo.

    Top-engine:
    2.5 DOHC AVCS turbo H-4 with ~ 270 – 280 HP

    Outback

    Base engine:
    2.5 DOHC AVCS H-4 with 210 HP turbo found on the Forester XT & Baja turbo.

    Top-engine:
    3.0 DOHC AVCS H-6 with ~ 250 HP

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I like your engine lineup Bob.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the US-spec Legacy & Outback come from Indiana, and same with the '04 Baja turbo, I can't help but believe that the 210 HP turbo will also be part of the '05 Legacy/Outback lineup.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The MB event required an invitation number AFAIK.

    Mazda: Mazda only makes you pay if you want to take part in the time trials. Other than that, they have a test drive center on a distinct course.

    Saab had a road show last fall. For me it was impossible to do - it was in downtown Boston in the middle of a weekday afternoon. Why would I want to drive a Saab in bumper to bumper traffic??
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Bob, interesting comments... But you have H6 only going into the Outback? I'm thinking that the low-boost 2.5L turbo doesn't go into the Legacy, instead the H6. And then for even more power, a 2.5L turbo slightly detuned from STi specs arrives later. Or maybe even in the same state of tune, just with lower claimed output.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll take that lineup, Bob. Heck, I'd have a hard time picking which one I wanted.

    I still think Subaru would be smart to distinguish the Outback some more, perhaps make it H6 only, plus give it a raised double-decker roof. Zero overlap with the Legacy would be the idea.

    -juice
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Legacy
    2.5L H4 turbo 225hp. Basic engine from the WRX. 5spd auto or 5spd manual.

    Legacy GT
    2.5L H4 turbo 300hp. Basic engine from the STi. 6spd manual only.

    Outback
    3.5L H6 with 250hp as the only engine. Essentially a bored/stroked version of the current engine.

    I would also drop the Bean and VDC models.
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    We've seen some photos of the 05 Legacies, but are there any photos (actual or concepts) of the expected 05 Outbacks? Is it expected that there will be an Outback version of the new Legacy initially, or will they continue the old platform Outback at first??

    P.S. Our Quest lease will be up 11/04, so of course I've been looking at the new Legacy pictures rather excitedly. Most importantly, though, I finally got the wife to look at them and she agrees that the new wagons look "very nice" (yes!!). Looks like there may be another subie wagon in my future yet!

    Jon
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Volvo recently introduced an S60R, which has a 2.5L 5-cylinder 300/295 (horsepower/torque) engine, 6-speed manual, Brembo brakes, 235/45x17 tires, and AWD, for just under $38K.

    To my knowledge there is no confusing (when to use) "water spray," and there is no boy-racer STi-like rear wing either. I see this as a direct competitor to the new Legacy turbo when it arrives.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    yeah, i just checked it...sedan starts at 36 & wagon at 38..by the time you fully equip it, it will be in mid-40s range.

    I expect legacy to be 10k cheaper than that....which is a huge Plus !
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What would you need to add? I'm sure the Volvo is fully loaded, as is.

    My guess is the gap between this Volvo and the Legacy turbo will be more like $5K – $7K. When you get a MSRP of around $35K and up, $5K – $7K is not as big a deal than if you're talking of a $25K MSRP, at least to the customers in that market. Yeah, it's still a lot of money, but the higher the MSRP, the less important that gap seems to become.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    No, i think it makes a diff.

    These days, most customers who buy mid 30's car are already streched. So, 5-7k will make a diff.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I was gonna sign up, but it seems like a lot of $ for like 3 or 4 runs. I rather spend the money toward a real auto-x or track day.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Note the raised body, larger cross-section tires, subtle wheelwell and lower body cladding & fog lamp!

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6096

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    i like it a lot....esp lower cladding & monotone.
    hopefully the production comes as monotone.

    i might take outback H6 as opposed to Legacy turbo. I hope they will kill that onstar bs & replace with nice NAV
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Looks good on first impressions! Cladding is clean, subtle and tasteful. Can't wait for more details/pix.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    look carefully the 2nd pic.
    it seems like it has higher ground clearance than the current ones. am i right ?
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Hmmm... Looks like 05 Outback is the replacement for our our 00, especially with a 250hp H6 5 spd auto sport shift. Looking forward to next year.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I thought the same thing.

    -Dennis
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Bob. I was wondering when we'd start seeing some shots of the new OB. I'm especially diggin the lower side cladding. Might miss the reflector across the back between the taillights, though.

    Jon
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Looking at the 2nd pic, it does appear to sit higher off the ground than my 01 OB wagon. Since the Baja just went to slightly more than 8" of clearance this year (starting with the turbos I presume) then I might guess the new OB line could get at least 8" and maintain the present level of ride comfort and handling. With my car, though, it's always been the front bumper that gets abused off road...the underbody clearance hasn't been the limiting factor for me.
    Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Do those wheels look like 17" units? The tires/wheels appear slightly larger in diameter than current models. Not sure if they went from a 60-series to a 55-series tire either.

    This appears to be a white monotone, but not sure about that, it could also be silver. In any case the cladding does not lend itself well to 2-toning, judging by what I see here. The cladding does remind me a bit of the cladding used on the Volvo XC90, which is unpainted black (like the Forester X), so perhaps the base Outback might receive that treatment, whereas all other trim levels might receive the monotone treatment.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    note that current base OB has lower GC than the H6 OBs.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nice! I think you can't go wrong with the new Legacy redesign.

    The fender blisters reminded me of the Audi Allroad.

    Ken
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    yes, i felt the same...the cladding does remind of audi allroad
  • newcar4newfamnewcar4newfam Member Posts: 20
    I took the Subaru web-page survey the other day. My one comment, or thought, was that it would be kind of cool if Subaru included a Future Vehicles section on their web-page. You would think that once they display a new model at an auto show, they would start to promote it more on their web-page.

    Barkley
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the new Outback. The flares are round and not too garish. The cladding is reduced, the fogs are still there for character. No raised roof, I called that one wrong.

    Looks about 2" higher up than the current version.

    Unpainted black cladding, please! That would be the best by far! I just spent yesterday waxing my Forester (easy), and today waxing my wife's car (ugh, my back) and noticing a few gravel dings in the paint.

    It'll be hard to give up the cladding, put it that way.

    BTW, Sandy looks great. Today, before I washed the Legacy, someone asked how I liked my new Subaru. They were side by side. He was talking about the Forester!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I disagree about the roof. That stepped roof of the current model is why they ended up with the goofy 2-moonroof setup on the current models.

    If you look at the photos, there is black cladding down low. It gives the visual effect of having more ground clearance. After looking at these photos for some time, I don't think we'll see more black (as opposed to monotone) cladding. I think what we see here is what all Outbacks will get.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I too prefer a big single moonroof like the Legacy wagon will offer. But again, the Outback could be different, attract a different buyer.

    Think about this - it could make room for a fold-down DVD screen. It could also have moonroofs like the new Quest and Maxima, or sky roofs, that is (those don't open).

    I'm just saying, the Legacy covers the mainstream, at least as close as Subaru will get to it. Let the Outback be unique. Big fogs and a slight lift alone don't make it very distinguished.

    I just think Subaru has a lot of overlap in their lineup. Now that they are monotone, imagine how hard it'll be to explain to a layman the difference between a Legacy and an Outback. It's already hard!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.globeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20030612/Extending.ht- ml
  • gvmelbrtygvmelbrty Member Posts: 64
    Thxs for the link. Even thought we've all seen it, strange they didn't inlcude pics w/ that report though.

    This is pretty cool. If I understand this correctly, you can fold the rear seats down on the new Legacy wagons without walking around and doing it from the side doors:

    "The rear seatbacks in the wagon fold flat in a 60/40 split with the cargo floor by way of a handy one-touch electromagnetic switch in the cargo area."
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are offered by several carmakers now. The Nissan Murano has that feature, as does the new Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator. On the Expedition it's an option.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    wagon is lighter by 144kg which is 316lbs ......that's close to current forester weight
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - the Mazda 6 has that too, and they're spring loaded. Pull a small lever and wham, it's folded. Neat.

    -juice
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    .....pix are in the print edition but, unfortunately, not on the web.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Or at least part of the PDF is about Subies.

    http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews....to_enews191.pdf

    There's an interview with the new design big cheese, Andreas Zapatinas, as well as more Subie diesel talk.

    Note:
    If that link fails to open, go to nasioc, News & Rumors forum. There's a thread there regarding this, and a complete viewing of the Subie related article.

    I'd post the nasioc link, as I've done in the past, but I've been told by the Edmunds powers to be to no longer post those links here. So if you want the info, you will now have to work for it... :(

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6882A4D66BF47DB- 6CA256D42002135D8

    Same story, or at least most of it. No Subie diesel news here, however.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Looks like they've been thinking about diesel for a long time, huh?
    :monkey: re nasioc rule.

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    C'mon you can tell us. :) Be the rebel that you are! :)

    -mike
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