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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it appears to be a "designer" model, with little if any new technology or upgrades. There's also a similar JDM WRX-STi model too.

    I do like the JDM front bumper better than the USDM front bumper, however.

    Bob
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    rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    oh man! Just as I seem to get convinced on the GT LTD ....
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Does anybody know why the US could not get the JDM like bumpers? Probaby differnt US standards? Mazda6, BMW 3, G35, TL have almost the smae small integrated front bumper look.

    I like the front lights better too... no amber in the corners.

    --Sal
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sal, it's probably nothing more than a different plastic bumper skin. I think underneath the plastic skin it's the same here as it is in Japan.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    5 mph bumper requirement, probably.

    I'm in the minority but I like the US bumpers. Get into a fender bender and you will, too.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't think the bumper skin has any affect as to whether it has 5 mph capability.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    US requirements are differnet, it might be more than just the bumper skin.

    -juice
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    A quick look through the JDM website and basically, it appears to be a Spec B model with some extra trim (no performance changes):

    - 18" Gold Rims
    - HIDs
    - Rear fogs (Wagon gets LED version), heated mirrors and wipers
    - SWRT Logo shift knob
    - Red LED gauges
    - Blue Alcantara seating surfaces and interior trim
    - Special UV reducing glass

    Here's a link showing some of the above features:
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/wrlimited/utility/index.html

    Ken
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    STi seating surfaces. I love it, though the press generally prefers the Recaros in the EVO.

    -juice
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    <i.The quasy discussion over there centers on is this a "vehicle" name, or perhaps some sort of "system" name (like VDC, etc.), and perhaps SOA should enlist Elmer Fudd as the spokesperson?

    Actually that sounds like a name better suited to Marvin the Martian as spokesperson - not unlike the entire Infiniti product line.

    Ed
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    from equation sounding word is stupid
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Learn from VW's mistakes - don't use names that make no sense and are hard to pronounce.

    -juice
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bob- I'm willing to bet that the bumper innards are different also. As Juice pointed out it's probably been beefed up to meet the 5-mph standard.

    -Frank
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- You still gotta be careful even when you go the alphanumeric route... Ford's Merkur XR4Ti has to be one of the goofiest names ever :-)

    -Frank
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Could be, but that doesn't mean that the WR-Limited bumper skin couldn't work on USDM models. Both the Legacy and Outback have different bumper skins, yet they are both 5mph-friendly.

    Bob
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Yeah, I've seen '04 Rexes on nabisco with JDM bumpers. They still have the big foglights.

    -Dennis
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The issue is in fact the 5mph bumpers (the beam underneath that is metal) the covers are just covers and are unrelated to the bumpers themselves.

    USDM gets the undercarriage bracing and the small projector headlights on the 04+ Imprezas v. no undercarriage bracing and larger fog lights found on EDM and JDM cars.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks to Jon [in CT] over at nabisco

    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID- =5618522

    http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2004/08/c1501.html

    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2004/04_07_08e.htm

    Not exactly *new* news, but news nonetheless.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For God's sake, PLEASE let the Saab occupy the $40k price range and stick to the $30k or so range for the Subie!

    I want an alternative to the Pilot, not the MDX!

    How could the Saab cost more than $40 grand? Think about it. It would have to fly!

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID- - - =5602437

    To be released for '08 (MY or CY?). 2.0 and will be aluminium, similar to that that used on the VW Touareg diesel. Also to be sold in China. No word about North America.

    2008 seems a long ways off. I thought it would be sooner than that. I also thought it would be larger than 2.0L.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Makes sense, it should be even smaller for Europe. You make diesels for the biggest diesel markets first, and that is *not* the US. Not yet.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are in the 2.2L+ range.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably the ones you're interested in. ;-)

    But I'd be willing to bet there are far more 1.3l pint-sizers.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Honda diesel is 2.2L, and certainly the European brands offer diesels in varying displacements.

    In any event, 2008 is a long way off. By that time Subaru will have larger cars on the market. I don't think a 2.0 diesel would work on a larger Subie. Maybe they have larger diesels in the works too, but haven't announced them yet? I was actually hoping for a 2.5 &#150; 3.0 diesel, to be honest.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They mention the diesel could be built on the same assembly line as their gas engines. Maybe they're using a variation of the 2.5 gas engine, but keeping it to 2.0 in size so that that they can keep the cylinder walls thicker for added strength that would be required for diesel applications?

    Down the road they could add two more cylinders to make it a 3.0L H-6 diesel. As we know, that's one of the beauties of boxer engines, in that they're relatively easy to add cylinders to without re-inventing the engineering wheel again. "The Beauty of Modular Engine Building."

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I see, you're thinking ahead in terms of what might work in the US market. I'm kinda looking at what might sell in Europe now. In the Impreza or even the R1e.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    But it won't be now, it will be 2008 at the earliest. The European and American market could be quite different by then.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, gas could cost $17 a gallon by then. ;-)

    -juice
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Subaru would be wise to take a wait and see approach to low sulphur fuel and emissions regulations before making a substantial investment building diesels for the U.S. market. There is a good chance that none might be here by 2008.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    All the talk to date has been about offering a diesel in Europe and China. There's been no mention of offering that engine here.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/08/autos-206928.htm
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    check out this twin-turbo 3.0 BMW diesel.

    http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2004/- - B/bmw/535d.html

    Now imagine adding two more cylinders to the 2.0 diesel that Subaru is planning. Also, I think it goes without saying that the Subie diesel will be a turbo-diesel, since virtually all modern diesels are turbos.

    Diesels have come a long way baby!

    Bob
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    self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    How would you certify the car with diesel engine which runs on bio-diesel or veggie oil; LEV, ULEV, PZEV or equivalent to hybrid? Is there any pollutant coming out running with veggie oil?

    All you have to do is own a Mc Donald resturant and a diesel engine car, and you don't have to worry about gas price. That is not quite true. You still have to start the car with diesel or bio-diesel and once the veggie oil warm up, flip the switch to veggie oil, and from then on you are all set.

    Alland
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Mori says the next generation Impreza -- and the flagship turbo WRX -- will be "an aggressive" car.

    Drive's correspondent in Japan, Peter Lyon, reports there are some design staff at Subaru's headquarters who feel the four-door boxy shape is the path Subaru should be going down but they have been overruled by those who believe the next Impreza should be smaller, lighter and more stylish, along the lines of the World Rally Championship contenders such as the Citroen Xsara and Peugeot 307 CC.

    There are also suggestions in Japan that there will be a smaller, lighter, more compact three-door hatch-like Impreza in the range when it surfaces and the new model will boast performance equal to, if not better, than the current model.

    Joining the Impreza line-up further into its model life, in five to six years, is expected to be a hybrid-powered version which will link the conventional horizontally opposed four-cylinder engine with an electric motor.

    http://www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?article=http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2004/07/07/FFXS5UGCCWD.html

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With Saab's input, won't the XUV go back to being more quirky? ;-)

    Square or stylish? Hmm, tough call. The Impreza won't really be big even if it is square. A square Impreza wagon already exists - it's called the Forester.

    So I say make it stylish, bay-bee. Bring back a coupe also. Make it LIGHTER, all other Subies have lost weight but the Impreza got sorta heavy.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/160988-1775-102.html
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Go for stylish... Look at the Mini Cooper, not my cup of tea, but people are paying 1k to 2k over MSRP for them in So Cal. If you pay MSRP you get to wait 3-6 months!

    People buy cars with their eyes, so if it looks good, it must be expensive and the owner must be rich...

    --Sal
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Impreza can go after the trendy crowd. Leave the Forester boxy and practical, and the Legacy can go after the upscale customers.

    -juice
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Yes make the next Forester boxy, but more sleek. The current design is good, but it needs more work.

    If they get the new Subie face-lift down and perfect, I feel they can acomplish all this.

    -Sal
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    legacy sedan looks is the best sube so far i have seen
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Boxy but sleek? Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me ;-)

    -Frank
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Designers hear those contridictions all the time... :) I mean to say a sleak design with usable space. Heck, a sleak - swooping design with moderate to good utility like all or most of the premium market.

    --S
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Heck, a sleak - swooping design with moderate to good utility like all or most of the premium market.

    No thanks! Most premium brand SUVs are way to rounded for my tastes... they look like big bettles. Besides it's a given that the boxier the body the better the utility. Subaru can make-over the Forester if they want but I'd rather they didn't mess with the basic shape.

    -Frank
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru can make-over the Forester if they want but I'd rather they didn't mess with the basic shape.

    <designer speaking here...>

    Agreed Frank. A skillful and talented designer can do wonders with boxy shapes. The Forester just needs to be cleaned up and simplified in terms of styling. It's just too "fussy" as it now stands. There's no need to "round it" a great deal.

    While I do like the soft, round Nissan Murano's styling, I don't want to see the Forester become its clone.

    </designer speaking here...>

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20040709/200407099local_news108935- 0078.shtml
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Bob, I didn't know you were a designer. My wife is a graphic designer and has to interpert alot of contradicting messages. Like: "It needs to be more whimsy." Do you know what that means?

    Anyhow, I'm not a designer but take in alot to what she says and talks about. I agree the Forester should be cleaned up, its design is "fuzzy" but its not bad. It looks like a small version of our 2000 Toyota 4Runner w/Sport pkg we had. I don't like the Nissan Murno much though to round.

    Anyhow, I'd like to see the sedans and wagons be more sleek. I really love the 05 Legacy GT sedan and feel that Saab did a great job with the 9-2x.

    About the new Sub X over, I think is gonna look X5/F45 ish, I have a feeling anyhow...

    --Sal
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    i like my women NOT like my fxt
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My wife is a graphic designer and has to interpret alot of contradicting messages. Like: "It needs to be more whimsy." Do you know what that means?

    Yeah, being able to read between the lines is a survival skill one must learn in this business. A better skill however is being able to ask the right questions. There's nothing worse than having client who is vague, or has no idea what they want.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Volvo V70 wagon
    Volvo XC90 crossover
    Honda CRV
    Honda Pilot
    Honda Element (YES, THE ELEMENT IS WELL DESIGNED!)
    Dodge/Freightliner Sprinter
    BMW X5

    Also, while Scion is a box personified, I don't find it at all appealing. Must have something to do with me pushing 60...

    Bob
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    salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Volvo's design philosophy is nice and evolving. The Honda Element is a great SUV. The next gen BMW's are getting to "out-there" for me, I liked the last 5 series and current 3 series. The "flaming" philosophy is growing on me though. X5 is great but I wish it had the same room as the old 540 wagon.

    Subaru's new look is evolving from the B11s to the B9, they have something there, it just needs to be refined a bit more. Can't wait to see the next concepts.
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