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Comments
Bob
Not as nice as current look, but not horrendous. The face looks a bit like a cartoonish angry beaver with a Subaru emblem nose, though, and the license plate combining with the large lower air intake to form a buck-toothed scowling mouth. The foglights even make little dimples.
When do the '06 Legs/OB's come out? The regularly scheduled time of late summer (July/August)?
-Dennis
For the most part, the Legacy and Outback are excellent looking cars. I'm just not wild about the grille(s), or the rear hatch stying of the wagon (which I also think is weak).
Bob
But that gives us an indication.
-juice
• No 5-speed manual Legacy GT wagon.
That's really lousy news.
Bob
New-look Impreza is an improvement, so I'm hopeful they can successfully incorporate the new look onto Legacy, adding sophistication without being overly "busy".
It's obvious that every time they bring some meat to the table, they always forget the fork but yet bring the plate. I'm glad I didn't wait!!!
Sylvia, "Subaru Minivan in 2007?" #1, 29 Jun 2005 6:45 pm
Reading between the lines here, I find some interesting stuff:
First of all, for Edmunds to start this thread in the first place, tells me that they feel pretty sure that this vehicle is indeed in the works, and not just some wild rumor with little credibility.
Second, Sylvia mentions that the next generation Legacy will move up in size, to a larger vehicle class. This I find fascinating, and raises the following questions:
• Will this new larger Legacy be built off the Tribeca platform? There have been many rumors of a larger B 9-based sedan. Could this be it?
• If the Legacy moves up in size, will the next Impreza (and Forester) also move up a bit in size to fill the newly created size gap between these models?
• Will the Outback survive, as we know it, or at all? After all, the Tribeca would then become the Outback "equivalent" of the new larger Legacy, wouldn't it?
• If the Impreza indeed grows, would the Outback Sport sort of become the "new" Outback (as we know it)?
• Or would the Outback Sport be dropped, and the next generation Forester inherit the current Outback's role and market position?
Interesting stuff...
Bob
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2006.html
Outback:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2006.html#what's new
Bob
Or it might grow with the Legacy, and remain a spin-off.
Or we might even get a US-only Legacy and Outback.
How 'bout them apples? ;-)
-juice
Wouldn't that then compete with the Tribeca?
Or we might even get a US-only Legacy and Outback.
You mean one about the same size as the current one? Sylvia's post didn't indicate that. Also, why would we get a smaller Legacy/Outback than the rest of the world? That doesn't make sense.
Bob
I just don't see Subaru killing off its best seller.
Another option - the Legacy would be eliminated completely. The Outback would stay were it is in size, and they could add a B9 Legacy sedan that was bigger, in fact they might not even need a wagon version since the Tribeca covers that niche.
People complain about too much overlap from the Legacy to the Outback, so this would address that.
-juice
I just don't see a larger Outback, as it would compete with the Tribeca.
Bob
We'd have to see more differentiation, though, not just two-tone paint, flares, and scoops.
OB and Forester are their two best sellers, don't mess with a good thing!
-juice
Well, that could work, especially if they do make it more off-road oriented.
Bob
Maybe a self-leveling suspension and a full-size spare crammed in somehow? Plus roof rails with cross bars?
There's plenty of stuff to add to a Tribeca.
-juice
Why would they do that? Playing devil's advocate - I thought all Subaru products had to be global? A larger sedan wouldn't fit the bill.
But they wouldn't have to sell it here. Maybe only the Legacy sedan, drop the wagon since most wagon buyers pick the Outback anyway.
B11 Sedan could be an entirely seperate model, like the US Accord and Camry, if they can afford to do that.
-juice
But in recent discussions, it's been bandied about that Subaru can't afford to do a real full size minivan since it would be a North America model only. Wouldn't a full size sedan be udner the same restrictions? IMHO, Subaru would be better off spending money on a real minivan instead of a larger sedan - the US Accord/Camry market is a tough nut to crack whereas the mini-van market has major players leaving an opening.
Bob
Sorry, that's what I meant - a real North American mid-size which everyone says is not in Subaru's realm because it's not a world size.
5-Series BMWs and E-Class MBs are world cars, and they are larger than the current Legacy.
Sorry Bob - I don't think you can compare them. The 5 and E are world cars but they don't conform to the smaller is better rationale used by Subaru.
Bob
If so, I'd be hard pressed to call it a world car. I am using world car in the context that the vehicle is sized to compete in most markets. Most vehicles made for NA consumption are not what I would consider "world" cars. The NA Accord and Camry are designed for this market and other parts of the world get smaller versions. The current Legacy is world car to me because they size it for world markets first and then offer it in the US. IMHO, the 5 and E are sized for NA markets and then offered to the rest of the world - size be darned.
Subaru has always maintained a need to offer worlds car in that context- hence the 7/8ths sizing of the Legacy and Tibeca. I thought the need for a global minivan meant making something the size of the Traviq or MPV as opposed to the Sienna/Odyssey/Grand Caravan - at least that's the impression I got from the autoweek article about a Subaru minivan.
If the Legacy were to move up to the next size class, it would be an jumbo mid-size or 7/8ths large car. Would either of those have potential outside North America?
Bob
If it's not quite full, maybe a 7/8 scale Avalon only sportier, that would still be bigger than a Legacy.
-juice
Thanks!
If it's not quite full, maybe a 7/8 scale Avalon only sportier, that would still be bigger than a Legacy.
-juice
Again, IMHO it pushes the Legacy out of the Subaru required "world" car size. Besides, Subaru is already competing in the mid-size segment with the 7/8ths Legacy. They need to enter a segment where they aren't already competing.
edit - I keep forgetting that the Legacy is listed by the EPA as a compact sedan. Never mind my harping. I think they could then upsize the Legacy so it just meets mid-size standards instead of pushing the edges of the category and still offer it as a "world" sized vehicle.
Heck, the new Sonata is listed as a full-size by the EPA but it really will be competing in the mid-size segment.
-juice
And then all the enthusiasts will complain that we don't get the good products here - Opel Traviqs, VW Polos, Seat Leons, Ford Falcons, et al.
Honestly I'm kind of tired of people complaining about the WRX and Tribeca styling and how the Legacy is the most beautiful car Subaru ever produced - yet they haven't bought one.
Let them get an STi.
Outback would have that platform covered anyway.
-juice
Honestly I'm kind of tired of people complaining about the WRX and Tribeca styling and how the Legacy is the most beautiful car Subaru ever produced - yet they haven't bought one.
Let them get an STi.
Outback would have that platform covered anyway.
-juice
juice - you gotta hit the reply button - who are you responding to??
For Subaru, it's the Outback that pays the bills, not the Legacy. Keep the Outback where it is, maybe grow it very slightly, but don't change it too much. It is their cash cow, why change their most successful model radically?
The Legacy can change, though. Impreza will grow eventually and fill that gap anyway. Legacy could be a nice Q ship.
-juice
The good news is that the NAV in the GT Ltd wagon didn't seem to increase price very much, IIRC.
Ken
Bob
I almost feel as though that pricing is too good to be true?
Joe
A general caution about what's become Subaru's Big Lie. The automaker harps on the smoothness of its flat or "boxer" cylinder layout, like the engine configuration of old Volkswagen Beetles and all Porsche 356 and 911 sports cars. It just ain't so. While Subaru's boxer six-cylinder engines do seem smooth, the four-cylinder powerplants such as those in the Forester cackle at idle, as if there's something wrong, and have slight shakes and vibrations.
so many complaints about the 06 Forester
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-06-30-subaru-forester_x.htm
BTW, I e-mailed him a few days ago to see if he head anything about the '06 Baja. He mentioned that there is a rumor of the H-6 Baja! Again, this is just a rumor, and nothing more at this point. I think whatever they do in terms of any upgrades, they'll just reach into their parts bin, so an H-6 is certainly doable.
Bob
Bob
I remember in MY2003 when the SE came out they listed the L model but never actually produced many for retail sale (if any at all). So essentially the SE became the base model.
-juice
I was wondering if anyone had a better feel that I do for how the sales of the Tribeca are going, and if this will cross over to other vehicles. I had read that Subaru expected 30-36k Tribecas to be sold in its first 12 months. That would mean somewhere close to 2k a month. They sold 1546 in June. Now I don't know if they had a full month in or not, (I attended an introduction event in our local Subaru place within the last couple of weeks), and I know the advertising campaign is supposed to kick in next week.
One of my local car buffs and I were having a discussion about the new Subaru look. Since the look is not conventional, we were wondering if a total hit... or a total bust would influence the corporation styling of its cars, and how fast they could do it. Looking at the sales figures Subaru is saying they are happy with them, but it is likely they would no matter what.
What is the local internet savy consensus... Is it a hit? A bust? Too soon to call?
Frank
1540 is low but it's better than the Baja's best month ever. Plus June was a record with incentives boosting other models.
I do think the 2005 Legacy/Outback was off to a quicker start but those were not new nameplates so it's really hard to compare.
-juice
When Subaru first introduced this look most people hated it. In fact if you go to any Subaru-specific sites, and check out the posts from a 6 months (or further back), and compare them to very recent posts, you will see the shift is already occuring. Yes, there are some who still absolutely hate it (and will ALWAYS hate it), but there are also many more today who now like it a lot. They've simply gotten used to it, and now feel really good about it. It just takes time.
Bob
Aww c'mon juice - in a bad month, even the Aztek could outsell the Baja!!
-juice
Mini sold in May 17,511 units worldwide. They don't break out specific country sales but I'd say NA is probably the biggest market. That's amazing IMHO.
Hmm, maybe Subaru could have employee pricing for everyone and apply it only to Bajas!!
-juice