I got the same reply, when I requested that it be brought over. Don't be surprised if that statement gets revised as the Detroit Auto Show nears, which is in January No, I don't have any inside info, just a gut feeling...
Also interesting is that FHI is allowing SOA to drive them out on the streets (totally undisguised), where they can be seen by everyone. They're certainly not making any attempt to hide this vehicle from the public. I guess that's the only real way to see if there's a market for such a car here. I'm sure those driving it on the streets are getting asked lots of questions by passersbys, which they are noting... Also, it gives them a chance to see how the car does in real-world USA driving conditions—especially in highly congested urban situations, which is where it is best suited.
It's just another very different look from what you're used to seeing... Different does not = ugly. Different = different, nothing more. As with just about anything that's really new and different, you will likely get used to it given enough time.
What I'm saying is that a lot of people "automatically" equate being very different as being very bad. That's what I'm responding to.
The Aztek is bad for all the same reasons that the R1 and R2 are good. The Aztek is a phony and pretentious design. It's trying very hard to being something it's not. Most of the design decisions that Pontiac made on that vehicle hurt the functionality (sloped rear roof limits cargo capacity, chunky front end hurts aerodynamics, huge amount of cladding unnecessary and expensive, etc.). To me that's the essence of "bad design." That can't be said of the R1 and R2.
Relax Bob. You're in the design field and you look at things in a different way. Is the word "ugly" even used in the design field?
I know that most people don't like change or different. Ugly is just a reaction that people have - it's an opinion. To them it's ugly. To others it's beautiful. It may not match your interpretation of the same thing.
Personally, I like different. The Bangle designs look good to me and I'm attracted to almost anything that Citroen puts out.
The Aztek looked awkward to me. Once they dropped the cladding, it looked less so IMHO.
Absolutely. But it's usually associated with incompetence and/or poor decision-making. Also, not all designers think in one big monolithic block. There's often disagreement as to what is good and bad design. The difference being is that (most) designers can back their arguments (pro or con) with well thought out reasoning. That's not often the case with most people who are not in the field, or who don't have a good understanding of design.
Finally, I understand that there will always be people who either "hate" or "love" designs that I don't agree with. My problem is that I'm constantly amazed by some people's reactions, and their justifications. I think that's why I lost most of my hair.
Base Euro-Impreza is called 2.0R (not 2.0i), It comes with DOHC and AVCS. Same with the Euro-Forester X. Horespower is close to our 2.5i model. As in the past, both base models get a dual-range 5-speed manual. Euro-Forester XT 2.5 gets a 4EAT with SportShift as optional. Euro-WRX and STI now get 2.5 engines.
Interesting, you don't often see the factory claims for all the models.
11.3 for the 2.0l auto, 8.5 for a manual, what a difference! With the 2.5l there is little if any, some autos did it in 9.1 and some manuals took 9.5 or more. Just find that interesting, the 2.5l is just much better suited to an automatic.
5.4-5.6 for the 2.5T WRX, that's plenty quick, about where the 2.0l was but it should be more driveable.
GM revealed the Cadillac BLS, its latest attempt to insert Cadillac into the European market. The mid-size sedan will compete with the Audi A4 and BMW 3-Series and will go on sale next year.
The company also unveiled a crossover concept called the Opel Antara GTC, with frameless windows and a coupe-like silhouette. The company said the concept is a signal of striking designs to come.
Speaking of which, I drove a new '06 WRX 5-speed wagon today. That's the good news. The bad news was that the drive was waaaaaay too short, a mile and a half at most. Even so, the new engine does make good power from down low, which we all know. I need to spend more time in one of these new '06 models, for sure...
Just over at Scoobynet,com, the Brit Subie site where that UK Impreza info came from. I'd post the link, but it's a forum, and therefore an Edmund's no-no.
In any event the Brits refer to the '04 – '05 model as the "Blobeye," and the new '06 model as the "Hawkeye" model
So now we have the following classifications for the current generation Impreza:
BLS is just a re-skinned Saab 9-3. The doors and greenhouse give that away. They just added some creases. The interior looks far better than the CTS, though, plus it'll be a little smaller and more affordable.
I took a look and the Antara will have a clone that will replace the Saturn Vue. So I'd say no, this isn't related to any Subaru. Plus they will build the Opel in Korea, the Saturn in the US.
A few pages back, there was a mention of turbos. It is possible to use a turbo to provide reasonable power AND good mileage. SAAB and Volvo have done this with low pressure turbocharging. By using low pressure, the compression ratio can be kept high. That means that fuel economy and performance is good even when the turbo does not kick in. When it does, there is less of a turbo "kick," but still more power. It is a reasonable compromise. In some SAAB models it was possible to get around 195 ft lbs of torque and 175 horsepower while also getting 23 mpg around town and 30 mpg on the highway. The additional torque translates into faster acceleration, especially since it peaks at 2500 rpm in a smaller displacement engine. Foresters and Imprezas are of similar size and weight. Why can't that technology be applied? More power, same fuel consumption. Alternatively, same power, lower fuel consumption.
I would not at all be surprised if Subaru shows a twin-turbo, 4-passenger, 4-door coupe at Tokyo. I'm thinking along the lines of the new Mercedes CLS and upcoming Porsche Panamera; but at half the price, say around $40K, or a bit more. Sound too outlandish? Perhaps, but consider the following:
• There have been a rash of very recent rumors that Subaru is about to announce something "BIG."
• Why Tokyo? Because it's a very important show for Japanese carmakers, and it occurs every 2 years. Here's where they really flex their creative muscle; much more so than at any other international car show. What better place to debut a new Japanese flagship car? The timing perfectly coincides with the unveiling of the "new" Subaru look.
• The rumors about the twin-turbo are becoming more frequent.
• 4-door coupe? The new MB CLS is simply stunning to look at; same with the sketches of the upcoming Porsche. Subaru is constantly talking about their new "design language," and what better way to elaborate upon that with a production-ready 4-door coupe? Especially as a dramatically styled flagship car?
• I think 4-door coupe is an emerging new market niche. Plus there currently is nothing like it in the $40K – $50K range.
• They've shown the B11S, which sort of fits that category. Get rid of the suicide doors and offer a normal rear door with a B-pillar and it becomes a 4-door coupe. BTW, I've sat in the rear of the MB CLS, and it's not as cramped as you might think. The B11S has a 110" wheelbase, and it's wide too. If this 4-door coupe matches the B11S dimensions, it too could be reasonably roomy.
• Why not just a larger sedan, which is also rumored? I think the '09 Legacy will become that larger sedan. It's been mentioned that it will move up a class in size, the next go-around.
I think a light-pressure turbo would be a good idea. One of the biggest criticisms of the current 2.5T engine is its fuel efficiency. There is a huge bump in fuel costs when you step up from the normally aspirated engines to the turbos. Power, too. They could have an engine to bridge that gap, maybe around 200 hp or so.
Tokyo: Bob's always the dreamer. Watch, they'll show nothing new.
I think a light-pressure turbo would be a good idea. One of the biggest criticisms of the current 2.5T engine is its fuel efficiency. There is a huge bump in fuel costs when you step up from the normally aspirated engines to the turbos. Power, too. They could have an engine to bridge that gap, maybe around 200 hp or so.
Juice, another probable benefit is more linear power delivery, with near elimination of the low rpm flat spot.
* the Impreza-based minivan to replace the Traviq * a new B11S production car * a new large sedan * a new Tribeca-based minivan for the US market * 3 hybrids
Why would Subaru bother pursuing a low-pressure turbo when they're testing the turbo hybrid, which takes care of the "flat" spot and gets even better gas mileage?
Like juice, I'm always let down a little by Subaru at the big auto shows.
I thought the hybrid info qualified as "big news", though, although it seems like everyone's doin' it, now. And that announcement wasn't even made at an auto show. Since they didn't announce one at Frankfurt, I'm thinking maybe they'll introduce a new diesel motor. *shrug*
Would I love to see a B11S-type vehicle introduced? Sure! (Tribeca may hold the record for shortest time as a flagship.) Unlike many, I found the concept to be very attractive & very high-tech looking, interior and exterior. I loved the glass roof on the B11S, thought the interior was sexy, thought the suicide doors were cool, too - and created a more open interior with that lack of B pillar - but it'd probably sell better with "real" doors. Imagine... no B pillar and a glass roof! If James Bond were to drive a Japanese sedan, the B11S was it. And that engine! Holy smokes!! What was the HP estimate? 400-something?
Bob, if you're right about a big, 4-door coupe at Tokyo, could you make an educated guess on some lottery numbers for me?
Maybe GM'll have enough sway to nix this one, too. I love how they thought a roadster didn't work for Subaru, and then introduce the Solstice & Sky. Grr. Apparently a roadster is no good for Subaru, but Saturn, on the other hand, hey, that's a different story! *sarcasm detector activated*
1. Subaru is in the process of implimenting their revolutionary new look and readjustment of their market position.
2. The Tokyo Motor Show is next month, and it occurs only every 2 years. This is a HUGE show for Japanese carmakers, and historically the Toyko show has introduced some pretty wild stuff from Japanese carmakers. There's a lot of national pride at stake here.
3. What better place (and time!) for Subaru to introduce some sort of blockbuster?
4. Also, there have been a whole bunch of very new rumors on the Net (nabisco & elsewhere) that Subaru is about to announce something BIG.
I'm not saying for sure that it will be a 4-door coupe, but I do expect something out of the ordinary from Subaru.
Why LPT? Because it would likely cost a ton less than the Turbo Parallel Hybrid system they are developing now. I doubt those cars will come under $30k.
Craig/Dave: you guys should sample the Benz turbo-diesel, it's like an on/off switch. One on the boost it really scoots, though.
OK, then I'll reverse the question. Why would Subaru develop the turbo parallel hybrid? What would the hybrid's advantages be over LPT that would justify the price difference to consumers?
Master Card Visa American Express I ain't got nothin' against no credit cards But the cash, is the best!
I'm sure the bean counters see huge dollar signs. Honda supposedly loses money on the Civic hybrid, but I doubt they lose money on the Accord hybrid, with $10 grand higher pricing.
It's amazing the price you can put on performance. The MR2 was a flop, but Lotus took the same engine and put it in a lighter car and they have record sales and the Elise is a smashing success. Consumers will accept diminishing returns for extra performance, all the time actually.
or not... Nobody can predict next SoA move. BTW, of course no wagons available. As usual, Australia and Europe gets them (it is H6 not H4 turbo, btw), we don't
i've never been a fan of the grey/black and red leather combination.
looks like an interesting car, though!
~Colin ps, those are truly awful pics for a media site. I realize it may have been dusk when the shoot occurred, but a professional photographer / graphic editor should not have generated a finished image with the color palette so heavily skewed. (read: everything is orange.)
Comments
Also interesting is that FHI is allowing SOA to drive them out on the streets (totally undisguised), where they can be seen by everyone. They're certainly not making any attempt to hide this vehicle from the public. I guess that's the only real way to see if there's a market for such a car here. I'm sure those driving it on the streets are getting asked lots of questions by passersbys, which they are noting... Also, it gives them a chance to see how the car does in real-world USA driving conditions—especially in highly congested urban situations, which is where it is best suited.
Bob
Might be useful tactic to counter the tailgaters though, no one will want to be within 50 feet of it.
It gives a new meaning to butt ugly.
John
It's just another very different look from what you're used to seeing... Different does not = ugly. Different = different, nothing more. As with just about anything that's really new and different, you will likely get used to it given enough time.
Bob
Does this apply to the Aztek as well?
The Aztek is bad for all the same reasons that the R1 and R2 are good. The Aztek is a phony and pretentious design. It's trying very hard to being something it's not. Most of the design decisions that Pontiac made on that vehicle hurt the functionality (sloped rear roof limits cargo capacity, chunky front end hurts aerodynamics, huge amount of cladding unnecessary and expensive, etc.). To me that's the essence of "bad design." That can't be said of the R1 and R2.
Bob
I know that most people don't like change or different. Ugly is just a reaction that people have - it's an opinion. To them it's ugly. To others it's beautiful. It may not match your interpretation of the same thing.
Personally, I like different. The Bangle designs look good to me and I'm attracted to almost anything that Citroen puts out.
The Aztek looked awkward to me. Once they dropped the cladding, it looked less so IMHO.
Absolutely. But it's usually associated with incompetence and/or poor decision-making. Also, not all designers think in one big monolithic block. There's often disagreement as to what is good and bad design. The difference being is that (most) designers can back their arguments (pro or con) with well thought out reasoning. That's not often the case with most people who are not in the field, or who don't have a good understanding of design.
Finally, I understand that there will always be people who either "hate" or "love" designs that I don't agree with. My problem is that I'm constantly amazed by some people's reactions, and their justifications. I think that's why I lost most of my hair.
Bob
-juice
cos it is one.
~Colin
I've had 3 stolen from me (all from different places). So I'm done with those.
-juice
-juice
Base Euro-Impreza is called 2.0R (not 2.0i), It comes with DOHC and AVCS. Same with the Euro-Forester X. Horespower is close to our 2.5i model. As in the past, both base models get a dual-range 5-speed manual. Euro-Forester XT 2.5 gets a 4EAT with SportShift as optional. Euro-WRX and STI now get 2.5 engines.
Bob
11.3 for the 2.0l auto, 8.5 for a manual, what a difference! With the 2.5l there is little if any, some autos did it in 9.1 and some manuals took 9.5 or more. Just find that interesting, the 2.5l is just much better suited to an automatic.
5.4-5.6 for the 2.5T WRX, that's plenty quick, about where the 2.0l was but it should be more driveable.
-juice
The company also unveiled a crossover concept called the Opel Antara GTC, with frameless windows and a coupe-like silhouette. The company said the concept is a signal of striking designs to come.
Any relationship to the Impreza?
Bob
In any event the Brits refer to the '04 – '05 model as the "Blobeye," and the new '06 model as the "Hawkeye" model
So now we have the following classifications for the current generation Impreza:
'02 – '03 = "Bugeye."
'04 – '05 = "Blobeye."
'06 – '07 = "Hawkeye."
Bob
Opel Antara GTC? Got a link? Pics?
-juice
-juice
It seems almost like two steps back, one step forward!
Ken
-Dennis
• There have been a rash of very recent rumors that Subaru is about to announce something "BIG."
• Why Tokyo? Because it's a very important show for Japanese carmakers, and it occurs every 2 years. Here's where they really flex their creative muscle; much more so than at any other international car show. What better place to debut a new Japanese flagship car? The timing perfectly coincides with the unveiling of the "new" Subaru look.
• The rumors about the twin-turbo are becoming more frequent.
• 4-door coupe? The new MB CLS is simply stunning to look at; same with the sketches of the upcoming Porsche. Subaru is constantly talking about their new "design language," and what better way to elaborate upon that with a production-ready 4-door coupe? Especially as a dramatically styled flagship car?
• I think 4-door coupe is an emerging new market niche. Plus there currently is nothing like it in the $40K – $50K range.
• They've shown the B11S, which sort of fits that category. Get rid of the suicide doors and offer a normal rear door with a B-pillar and it becomes a 4-door coupe. BTW, I've sat in the rear of the MB CLS, and it's not as cramped as you might think. The B11S has a 110" wheelbase, and it's wide too. If this 4-door coupe matches the B11S dimensions, it too could be reasonably roomy.
• Why not just a larger sedan, which is also rumored? I think the '09 Legacy will become that larger sedan. It's been mentioned that it will move up a class in size, the next go-around.
Bob
Tokyo: Bob's always the dreamer. Watch, they'll show nothing new.
-juice
Wanna bet?
Bob
Well, that's too easy. I'll say no major new vehicles there, concept or otherwise. Deal?
Loser buys the next lunch.
I really think they'll wait 'til Detroit. I could be wrong about that van, but I'll risk it.
-juice
Bob
Juice, another probable benefit is more linear power delivery, with near elimination of the low rpm flat spot.
dave
Not that I'd mind losing this bet.
dave: drive the 2.5T, there's no flat spot IMO. I'd describe it like this:
2000rpm not bad
3000rpm whoa
4000rpm WHOA
5000rpm YIPEEE
6000rpm WooHoooooo!
But 19mpg in the city, and for a compact...that could be better.
-juice
Bob
* a new B11S production car
* a new large sedan
* a new Tribeca-based minivan for the US market
* 3 hybrids
:surprise:
-juice
Bob
takes care of the "flat" spot and gets even better gas mileage?
I thought the hybrid info qualified as "big news", though, although it seems like everyone's doin' it, now. And that announcement wasn't even made at an auto show. Since they didn't announce one at Frankfurt, I'm thinking maybe they'll introduce a new diesel motor. *shrug*
Would I love to see a B11S-type vehicle introduced? Sure! (Tribeca may hold the record for shortest time as a flagship.) Unlike many, I found the concept to be very attractive & very high-tech looking, interior and exterior. I loved the glass roof on the B11S, thought the interior was sexy, thought the suicide doors were cool, too - and created a more open interior with that lack of B pillar - but it'd probably sell better with "real" doors. Imagine... no B pillar and a glass roof! If James Bond were to drive a Japanese sedan, the B11S was it. And that engine! Holy smokes!! What was the HP estimate? 400-something?
Bob, if you're right about a big, 4-door coupe at Tokyo, could you make an educated guess on some lottery numbers for me?
Maybe GM'll have enough sway to nix this one, too. I love how they thought a roadster didn't work for Subaru, and then introduce the Solstice & Sky. Grr. Apparently a roadster is no good for Subaru, but Saturn, on the other hand, hey, that's a different story! *sarcasm detector activated*
1. Subaru is in the process of implimenting their revolutionary new look and readjustment of their market position.
2. The Tokyo Motor Show is next month, and it occurs only every 2 years. This is a HUGE show for Japanese carmakers, and historically the Toyko show has introduced some pretty wild stuff from Japanese carmakers. There's a lot of national pride at stake here.
3. What better place (and time!) for Subaru to introduce some sort of blockbuster?
4. Also, there have been a whole bunch of very new rumors on the Net (nabisco & elsewhere) that Subaru is about to announce something BIG.
I'm not saying for sure that it will be a 4-door coupe, but I do expect something out of the ordinary from Subaru.
Bob (wearing his global marketing hat)
2000rpm not bad
3000rpm whoa
4000rpm WHOA
5000rpm YIPEEE
6000rpm WooHoooooo
juice, but in Chicago bumper-to-bumper traffic where I drove one:
2000 rpm: can't keep up with traffic
A moment later: close to ramming the car ahead
dave
A moment later: close to ramming the car ahead
That sums it up pretty well. The car prety much lunges when you get over that initial hump.
CRaig
Craig/Dave: you guys should sample the Benz turbo-diesel, it's like an on/off switch. One on the boost it really scoots, though.
-juice
Visa
American Express
I ain't got nothin' against no credit cards
But the cash, is the best!
I'm sure the bean counters see huge dollar signs. Honda supposedly loses money on the Civic hybrid, but I doubt they lose money on the Accord hybrid, with $10 grand higher pricing.
It's amazing the price you can put on performance. The MR2 was a flop, but Lotus took the same engine and put it in a lighter car and they have record sales and the Elise is a smashing success. Consumers will accept diminishing returns for extra performance, all the time actually.
-juice
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-20-2005/00041115- 29&EDATE=
Bob
I'll take two, please, one for me, one for the wife.
-juice
-Frank
I bet we see more offered for '07, when the Legacy gets facelifted.
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think they could lose the "bling-pedals." Other than that, very nice. I bet those red leather seats look great in person.
Bob
looks like an interesting car, though!
~Colin
ps, those are truly awful pics for a media site. I realize it may have been dusk when the shoot occurred, but a professional photographer / graphic editor should not have generated a finished image with the color palette so heavily skewed. (read: everything is orange.)
I love those rims, they really fill the wheel wells and look very sophisticated. A+ there.
I would have done the lower rear bumper in body color, to visually lower the rear a bit.
I also would prefer a mesh grille insert, delete that chrome.
Nit picks, I know.
-juice
CRaig