Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ateixeira

Perhaps Kate is right. Zap can do great designs, but it might just not have been a good fit with Subaru.

Oh well. I wonder what the face-lifted Tribeca will look like? Anyone want to photochop an Outback like face onto one?

-juice

zman3

The aircraft nose theme, I think, was done quite well on Impreza but badly overdone on Tribeca. In general, Tribeca's style kind of sucks IMHO, and I hope FHI will revise it dramatically for next release.

I agree 100% with these comments.

Karl

jeffmc

Hadn't checked the forums all weekend, so I'm a little late to the game, but I think of "premium" as a combination of style and quality. Everyone else hit it on the head defining value - bang for the buck. Value is one of the most attractive aspects of Subaru, to me. Add top safety, good driving dynamics and good utility, and I'm sold.

I think Subaru's effort to provide a premium vehicle that's a good value would appeal to folks who shop at premium outlet malls. Near-luxury quality at everyday prices. The difference is that the outlet mall would still attract some brand snobs, while Subaru isn't really there yet.

hypov

I think, was done quite well on Impreza but badly overdone on Tribeca

Not if you imagine you're looking at "Stitch"

The Tribeca does look better wth grille that isn't chrome.

-Dave

robr2

IMHO, value is bang for the buck.

As noted above, premium is a point along the product curve where certain features are expected.

They are not mutually exclusive. Consider the TSX - one of the great values in the premium segment.

IMHO, Subaru is value. It's not quite premium.

ateixeira

I want a value priced Tribeca. Maybe call it the Tribeca Basic, following along the lines of the OB model.

They can delete the power seats, use manual instead of auto climate control, and I can live with 17" rims.

Black out all the chrome trim, that has to be cheaper, right?

Bring me the Unpremium model, and I'll buy one.

I hated all this Premium talk from the beginning.

-juice

jeffmc

what about next year's Leg/OB makes you think they will emphasize premium/value more than the 07 models? 07 USDM models added features and prices dropped.

My understanding is that the 07 USDM models have the feature content of the "new" 07 JDM models (SI drive, expanded use of VDC, etc) and the only major change to USDM for 08 will be the cosmetic exterior tweaks that JDM got for 07. Are there more sweeping changes coming to USDM models for 08?

No insider info from me, unfortunately. I think they'll continue to add content (rear climate control, cargo fan, telescoping wheel, etc.) throughout most of the lineup and drop or maintain pricing, while striving for a "premium" look. The JDM '07s Legacy looks great, IMHO. I think now that they'll be utilizing all of the Indiana plant, and parts-sharing with Toyota, that they'll pass on some of the cost savings in an effort to boost sales.

rsholland

The word I keep hearing is that Zap didn't design the exterior of the Tribeca. That was in its final stages of design by the time he came on board. He may have tweaked it here and there, but the hard points were set in stone by the time he was hired. He did the interior.

Bob

zman3

I think the interior is rather nice.

Karl

kens

Exactly. And great example with the TSX.

The problem is that the term "premium" can be interpreted several ways. Is it luxury? Is it performance? A combination? The answers here demonstrate that there can be many different expectations. In order to successfully play with this nebulous term, one needs a wide range of features to make it work. It also alienates their customers that buy solely on basic value.

While Subaru have very strong performance oriented features, they clearly are playing catch up to features found with mainstream CamCord vehicles as mentioned earlier.

If I were Subaru's marketing manager for a day, I'd go back to focusing the product features and positioning around value as well.

Ken

tifighter

Is there much confidence that the Tribeca will survive long enough for a second generation release? Wondering what everyone's thoughts are...

rsholland

Yes, it will survive. Unlike the Baja, this vehicle is key to Subaru's future, so they will do whatever they have to so that it will succeed. I fully expect the heavily revised '08 model to be much more appealing, as it will address a number of the current model's shortcomings. One of those being power; there is a strong rumor circulating that the the '08 model will have a 3.6L engine—which is exactly what it needed from the start.

Bob

PF_Flyer

You KNOW the Crew is always welcome at any chat

The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

kate5000

Is Baja about to be killed? I actually liked it quite a bit.

once_for_all

John

dino001

Everybody liked it, nobody wanted to buy it.

rsholland

They stopped building Bajas in April. Whatever you see on dealer's lot is the last of the new Bajas.

Bob

once_for_all

I WANTED to buy it. My big head was up in the moonroof cut out

John

kate5000

If I had some extra cash, I would have bought it. Might become a collector's item in 10-15 years...

rsholland

I think you're right Kate. I bet it does become a collector's item someday.

Bob

c_hunter

Yeah, like the Brat -- it collects rust!!

qbrozen

or maybe like the Pinto, Edsel, Gremlin, etc.

yup, if its unloved when its new, odds are real good that it will be unloved when its old.

I wanted to like the Baja ... if they were only able to make it as fast as the turbo Forester ...

dino001

They did, I think. Baja Turbo?

once_for_all

yep, plenty fast. 210 hp in a 3500 lb vehicle. And those were the "conservative" hp from the original 2.5 turbo. More like 230 hp. Enough to shame almost all the F-150s.

I am still holding out for a new Baja "surprise" (aren't there a couple coming our way in September at Detroit?).

John

corvette

Good riddance to the Edsel grille! The Tribeca is a nice looking vehicle from the rear. Even the frog-eye headlights wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the grille.

rsholland

I'd love to see a new Baja, but so far there are no signs from SOA that one is under consideration.

I'm hoping that when the new boxer diesel debuts, Subaru will reconsider entering the small truck market. I think with the "right product," they could do well in the small truck market, now that $3.00+ gas seems likely to stick around.

Bob

qbrozen

i know of the baja turbo, but i never saw times anywhere close to the Forester Turbo. Anyone ever see anything different?

car and driver tested it at 7.3 secs (9.3 sans turbo) to 60 vs. 5.3 in the forester XT.

jeffmc

Just to spur discussion on '08 B9 Tribeca, here are a couple quickie Photoshops of B9 Tribeca faces:

Apparently the airplane look is out the door, but here it is with B11S nose:
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

with Stella nose:
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

I think it's safe to predict we'll see the turn signal light run in a thin strip underneath the headlight in upcoming models.

ateixeira

I agree, it won't be collectible because it wasn't highly sought after when it was new.

The 07 STI Limited, which they'll only make 800 of, and should sell out in a week, is a much better candidate for that.

-juice

ateixeira

B11S looks OK, but no better (and not much different) than the current nose. I'd leave it as is and maybe use that mesh grille insert.

Stella nose is ... yawn ... boring. In fact that looks like a Daewoo something or other, some cheap Korean SUV.

Can someone put an Outback "face" on one?

7.3s for the turbo Baja was for an automatic. The autos aren't nearly as quick.

-juice

rsholland

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1429

So, whaddaya think? A Turbo 3.6 maybe?

Bob

rangner

Nah...that would be cool though. I'm guessing the sti drivetrain: 300 hp turbo flat four with 6spd manual, DCCD. Which would put it just past spec B. A 3.0 H6 turbo wouldn't be out of the question though.

Eric

x5killer

First one looks cool and more like an update to the current. The second one does look boring and like a camry or other plain car front grill.

i dont think i'm going to like the new reskin and front end/grill. To me 06 and 07 Tribeca will therefore be a collectable.

ateixeira

I'll bet it's an 08 Impreza.

Same wheelbase, plus remember the new Legacy was tested with an old Legacy body on it. So Subaru likes to throw people off.

-juice

rsholland

Yeah, that's my (revised) guess now. The hard to see exhaust pipe is what did it for me. If the next Impreza rides on the current Legacy wheelbase (which is predicted), it will have a very short rear overhang, which would mean a short rear tail pipe.

Bob

ateixeira

I hope we start seeing spy photos soon!

-juice

jeffmc

Under-the-hood spy photo here.

c_hunter

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is that the lower fascia on the front end is not from a current US Legacy model, but is nearly identical to the "new" 07 model outside the US (http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/legacy/exterior/index.html).

So rather than being a frankenstein test mule, this might just be our upcoming 08 model.... As you know, the US model differs enough from the JDM/Euro models that it goes through another dev/test cycle. Having only minor cosmetic tweaks to the front end is consistent with rumors for 08.

As for the engine, that's anyone's guess!

ateixeira

But that doesn't explain the too-short exhaust pipes.

-juice

c_hunter

I think I see some hack-saw trimming in the rear fascia -- could be that it's the new rear fascia? Perhaps they had to modify for some reason.

Clearly they were testing the engine though, and the hood scoop is different, so something is up....

rsholland

I think we're getting the JDM styling. So I don't think this is what we'll be seeing on our '08 Legacy.

Bob

c_hunter

Bob, I was saying that the car *HAS* the 07 JDM styling in the lower fascia. It seems to be identical to the 07 photos on the JDM site. If we're getting JDM styling, then this appears to be it.

One giveaway is that the bumper is much more flush to the headlights than the 05-07 US models.

rsholland

Actually I think it's the same front bumper as is found on the current Aussie 3.0 spec.B and 3.0R.

http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/legacy/model/30rsb.html

Bob

c_hunter

Yeah, looks like the Euro version too:

http://www.subaru.co.uk/IMGGB/WWW/Subaru_co_uk.nsf/PlayMedia?ReadForm&unid=E2D3C- E11B89DC08B80256E750041FEB0

I just found the 07 JDM, and it's yet a different variation (with significantly more changed).

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/concept/imgs/p1.jpg

So the superscoop probably does not have the upcoming 08 USDM front.

mayberryguy

Clearly they were testing the engine though, and the hood scoop is different, so something is up....

I'm guessing this is a test mule for the new Turbo Diesel.

rsholland

Craig, there are actually several different front bumpers for the '07 JDM Legacy models. If you closely examine the JDM Legacy site, you'll see what i'm talking about.

3.0R
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/exterior/01/index.html

2.0R / 2.0i
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/exterior/03/

3.0R /2.0T spec.B
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/exterior/05/

Bob

ateixeira

Do you know something that we don't know? I hope so...

Though diesel was 20 cents more than regular fuel at my local station. Cheaper than premium, at least. The difference varies so much. It seems around here that diesel prices are more steady, and gas goes up above and then drops below diesel prices when oil prices fluctuate.

-juice

aaykay

After all the iterations, Subaru finally got the Impreza front-end styling right. The 06/07 versions look really great. And now they want to completely eliminate that styling direction from their other vehicles. I can never figure out Subaru's decision making process.

The Tribeca is horrible - front and rear. The rear looks as if it got rear-ended and left un-repaired.

ateixeira

I actually like it, just put a matte black grille in there, please.

I may buy a used '06 and I would pay to have all that chrome painted black. Seriously.

-juice

kate5000

>After all the iterations, Subaru finally got the Impreza front-end styling right. The 06/07 versions look really great. And now they want to completely eliminate that styling direction from their other vehicles.