Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ateixeira

I believe the DOHC 2.5l with variable valve timing made something like 168hp. I'd hope for a bit more if they brought it over here.

I mean, c'mon, they make 155hp from their N/A 2.0l now.

-juice

kens

The DOHC 2.5L AVCS makes 165HP@6000RPM and 172ft.-lbs of torque @2800RPM.

Did anyone have the HP&Torque graphs of the Phase I and Phase II engines?

Ken

locke2c

No, I don't. But that torque peak is waaaay lower than either of the 2.5L without AVCS, both make a little less peak (165-166) at 4000 rpm.

The AVCS 2.5L is probably a fantastic engine for the Forester. It would be a waste in an Impreza, or even a Legacy GT though. It would be much better to tune for high RPM power (still keeping the broad torque band, of course).

-Colin

ramon

should either be a twin turbo or a turbo 2.5l. It would be too heavy if subaru puts a wrx turbo in it.
hey what do u guys think about the ner SE-R spec V? How does it compare to our little RS?

locke2c

FWD = bleh

If it isn't AWD or RWD, I won't drive. ;-)

'Nuff said.

-Colin

francophile

The 2.0 motor is what is used in overseas hotrod Legacies, so I don't think it will be too heavy. (A rumored) 247 HP is a nice number for a car that size. I'd like to see the twin turbo 2.0 motor because it would widen the torque curve. I'd settle for a 2.5 with a lighter turbo though; I just don't want to have to rev it to 5000 RPMs to hit the sweet spot.

I haven't really researched it but my guess would be that variable valve timing works best on twin cams because that way they can choose whether to do the intake or exhaust valves or both. I can think of a trick or two to make it work with one cam but it doesn't look very pretty in my mind's eye.

Cheers,
-wdb

ateixeira

? Now you can't decide which country you are from? ;-)

There you go Colin. Just gotta dump our 626 and we'll be all set. Where's the Legacy turbo to replace it?

-juice

ramon

i thot that is US of A.
bah colin, on dry roads, AWD cars's performance edge is not alot over 2WD when both cars are equipped with good rubber. It all comes down to chassis tuning.
Anyways I too am pampered with the Beauty of All Wheel Drive....

locke2c

By 2WD if you mean "RWD" I don't disagree Ramon, and I can't count the times I've wished for LESS than 50% power going to the front wheels of my Impreza, or at least a front LSD.

However FWD most certainly has some disadvantages-- poor weight distribution, poor traction (one set of wheels turning and putting power down).

-Colin

ateixeira

Don't you wish for that dial WRC cars have where you can select how much torque goes to each axle?

I drove my wife's 626 to work yesterday, because the trailer is still locked on to the Forester and she wanted the Miata, and boy, you can keep FWD. The thing plows so bad you have to enter turns so slowly and don't feel comfortable applying full power coming out.

-juice

Karen_S

Edmunds.com Road Test: 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX

KarenS
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drew_

juice, you must be driving it like you stole it again :-)


Drew
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ateixeira

Actually, not really.

My point is FWD is just plain happier at a slower pace. If you push it in a sharp turn, it feels like you're going to understeer right off the road. The 626's power just exacerbates (good word, eh, Mike?) this tendency.

It's this uphill left-right turn I have on my way home each day. Rock walls on both sides, so no guts no glory. Slow too much and you lose major speed, and you're merging with traffic going 65 or so. You enter shifting from 5th to 3rd, then 2nd for the hairpin, then 3rd pulling up and out.

In the same turns the Miata wants to pull out of the turn with the throttle like a rubber band.

The Forester can just about slide right through with no fear of losing it. I almost feel like it's the opposite of the 626 - it bites down harder when accelerating.

-juice

ramon

juice mon. you can't based your experience with a softly sprung non performance car like the 626 as the basis of all FWD cars. Look at the Celica GTS and the Type Rs. Those are wonderful FWD cars that runs better than our 2.5RS on dry autoX or track events....well most of the time. Even that advanced Prelude SH can exhibit oversteer tendency if you so fancy that.
please don't tkae offence about me poking on your 626' performance oriented characteristic or lack thereof. I'm sure it has ample leg room and a quite ride compared to our lil Subes except the Legacy and Outback.

ateixeira

What does SH stand for? Quiet? Ssshhhh! ;-)

The 626 is not softly sprung. You'd be surprised. It's the exact same drive train as was in the MX-6 LS.

It is nose-heavy, though, and there is a decent amount of torque steer.

-juice

ramon

means Stupid Honda or slow Honda or Silly Honda or Singing Horse.
Hmm... my mom's '96 mx-6 is a v6 too. Quite powerful. But it's an old car now. Doesn't the Ford Probe GT use that engine as well?

ateixeira

Yep, same drivetrain and chassis. Only the body and interior differ, plus tires I think.

-juice

rsholland

Some good pixs of Blitzen. Love the dark anthricite wheels, body-colored tail light trim and the exhaust pipe poking out of the rear bumper slot.

Bob

http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/e/2001/0115/e30nsh_yk0115_01.html

rsholland

STi Prodrive.

http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/e/2001/0115/e36nsh_yk0115_04.html

Bob

bblacha

Subaru had better hurry up with that new Forester

http://www.vtec.net/news/items/681.html

ateixeira

A 2.4l CR-V would have around 180hp but only about 160 lb-ft of torque, i.e. it would match the current Forester but not beat it. And the 2003 Forester will counter-punch about 4 months later with a turbo or H6.

Also, they'll still have part time only AWD, and if it gets bigger I doubt it'll handle any better.

Still, it or the Escape is going to lead in terms of sales volume.

-juice

paisan

It will be a clone or is supposed to be a clone of the high maintenance MDX. With the FWD based AWD system.

-mike

rsholland

The link mentioned that the new CRV will be marketed against the Tribute (Escape), and the Kluger V (Highlander). If it's to be marketed against those models here in North America, it will need a V6 option. Of course, they were speaking of [non-permissible content removed]-spec models. There was no mention of North American-spec models in that link.

If the CRV is going larger, I can't help but believe those Outback-based Forester rumors. Look what happened when Honda enlarged their mini-van to match the Detroit mini-vans, it became a huge hit.

Bob

ateixeira

But Honda is notoriously stubborn about coming out with a V6. It took decades for the Accord to finally get one. If it does get the 2.4l, I doubt a V6 is in the picture.

Plus it would steal sales from the Honda MDX, when that is ready (2003 IIRC).

-juice

paisan

is ready to go, problem is that they are having capacity problems at the Oddessey/MDX plant, can't keep up with demand IIRC.

-mike

ateixeira

That's right, aren't they expanding the one in Ontario?

-juice

rsholland

The more I think about the next CRV, I don't see how it would/could compete with the Highlander. That will be the role of the upcoming Honda MDX variant. So, perhaps my call for a CRV V6 is premature.

If the CRV gets larger, as predicted, I doubt if it will be much bigger. It already sits on a 103" wheelbase. Perhaps it might go to 104," maybe even 105." I can't see it going any more than that. Not unless the Honda MDX variant is larger than the Acura MDX, that is. Note that the Highlander is larger than the RX300, which it's based off.

Bob

ateixeira

That's what I've been saying. Even if the CR-V moves up a bit, I don't think it'll quite match up with the Highlander. Optimism by Honda marketing, perhaps?

I think the CR-V could use a slightly bigger cargo area (longer), a hatch that opens curb side, and a better seating position for the driver, besides the bigger engine it's supposed to get.

I'd want improved handling as well, but it's selling well and most people won't care.

-juice

PS Bob - you hear someone hit Sandy? Hop over to Repairs to hear more about it. It was on my way home from your place.

rsholland

lunch or something. If you had left just a little later, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Bummer, big time. :-{(

Bob

kate5000

I checked out new Foresters 2002 at Subaru Santa Cruz dealership. I should tell you that Platinum Silver looks drop-dead gorgeous under the sun. It's got that larger sparky grain in it which looks really good. It did not impress me inside the showroom (looked too grey), but on the outside it's just plain beautiful.

I also liked new Savannah green. On the picture, it looks less attractive than previously used Acadia Green, but in person it's a very nice deep metallic green, a slightly different hue from Acadia but also very nice.

I also liked new Greystone cladding on S models. It's less golden than Titanium but not completely grey either. It's hard to describe but it has that sophisticate rich color to it...

I was right about Winestone for Outback 2002. It's gone :-(. But new Regatta Red is pretty nice too: a deep dark red. Well, I'm partial to red color overall.

I think, Outbacks with H4 and H6 will have differently colored cladding for 2002. One will get Greystone and another Titanium...

Black Foresters will be available only in S+ trim, for some reasons.

rsholland

I agree, the Savannah green is very attractive. It has just a bit more yellow, and perhaps a bit less blue in it, than the Acadia green which it replaces. I saw both a Forester L and S with that color. It's very handsome.

Your prediction of two different color cladding for the Outbacks is interesting. However, the difference between the two colors is so subtle, I wonder if it's worth the effort.

Bob

ateixeira

Bob - if I had left any later, my wife would have had ME for lunch! We almost missed the "Taste of Wheaton" festival.

Acadia is the best color ever, and now it's collectible! :-)

-juice

barresa62

Kate: You're right about this color looking great in the outdoors (but blah in less then bright conditions)It really shows off the lines of the vehicle and is (really jazzed about this) easy to keep clean. I got this color on my WRX wagon instead of the black or rally blue and haven't regretted it once. It actually looks great in the rain during the day too.

Stephen

lark6

juice: No offense but the Acadia was/is too blue for my liking. When I went shopping for an S I'd narrowed it down to Acadia Green vs. Black Diamond but the combo of green top, slate bottom and beige interior was too busy for me. With the unpainted cladding of the L, the green/tan combo is easier to swallow. Sure it's harder to keep clean, hotter in summaer and shows scratches more but at least it's color-coordinated. If the S had come in the same Timberline Green as the Legacy GT wagon I drove, I'd have gone for that.

On a different topic: Today at lunch I saw an "American Outback" in the Wawa parking lot. It looked like your usual Outback Limited, but had "American Outback" badges on the front quarters (in the same positions as the LLBean badges, but no H6) and two-toned leather seating with the same "American Outback" logos sewn into the front headrests. Color was Winestone with the typical lower cladding; interior was beige leather with brown leather inserts.

Never having seen one of these advertised I can only assume it is a regional special. It did have NJ tags and we are within shouting distance of SoA HQ. Does anyone know the story behind this model?

Ed

paisan

Like the "colorado rockie" edition, that we've seen floating around. Just badging on the leather and what not IIRC.

-mike

texsubaru

I saw my first WRX today, and its silver paint job was just stunning. Silver is probably my personal fave automotive exterior color, though the matching interior colors tend to be problematic to me, since it's typically gray or black upholstery and trim. A black interior can be nifty looking, but is simply not a tolerable microclimate in a Texas summer. A gray interior does have some practical benefit -- doesn't tend to show dirt or most stains as badly as some lighter or brighter colors -- but it can be rather drab looking, especially if it's made with less-expensive materials.

ateixeira

That's probably a dealer aftermarket package. The guys that put on the leather probably added the badges as well.

At the Covered Bridge Tour we say a regular Outback (2.5l) with LL Bean badges and GT wheels, remember paisan?

Check out the blue surrounding the WRX badge, which looks particularly good with the silver. Nifty.

-juice

paisan

I also saw someone @ the Lancaster trip with a 2.5rs that had a "V6 HO" badge on the back! I'm trying to get ahold of some Holden Jackaroo badges for my Trooper which is what the Trooper is called in Australia

-mike

ateixeira

Cool name. Jackaroo to you too, buddy! ;-)

Toyota wins the ugliest name contest with its Kluger V.

-juice

lark6

Swapping badges was big with the VW crowd in the days I had a VW. My '86 Jetta came with GL trim but was badged as a Carat - odd in that VW didn't start bringing Carats to the US until '88. I've seen a couple of current generation (A4 in VW parlance, a/o/t Audi A4) Jettas badged "Bora" and some older (A3) ones badged "Vento." The old Dasher/Quantums were the original "Passats" and I've seen Quantum wagons badged "Santana." juice, being from Brazil you would know these in better detail than I. No Polos or Lupos here so nobody's swapping those badges.

Ed

paisan

Badges-wise I like mine stock, or slightly less than stock. My trooper has almost no badges on it at all. Just Isuzu on the grille, Trooper along the bottom of the front doors, LS on the C-pillar, and 3.5 on the back door. And Trooper on the Spare-tire cover. Of course I had to add the trade-mark Italian reflective badge underlining the 3.5 on the back

-mike

ateixeira

You're on the right track. Brazil used the Passat name for the Dasher since as far back as I can remember.

The Quantum sedan was called the Santana, the station wagon just Quantum.

Their small car is called the "Gol", as in a soccer goal. But that's the hatch; the coupe is the Voyage and the wagon is the Parati. Funny thing is here the coupe and wagon were called the Fox, remember?

So they don't have the Lupo. The Polo is basically a rebadged Seat Ibiza, from Spain.

Confused? Me too. Now I see why Mercedes uses letter and numbers!

I took off the "AWD" badges from the windows, but the rest are OK.

-juice

lark6

Speaking of badges, do any of you remember the Dodge 600? A K-car variant, Chrysler designed the "600" badge to look exactly like Mercedes' decklid numbers. I don't know who they thought they'd impress (or fool) as there's no mistaking a K-car for the "Grosser Mercedes" 600 limousine. You still see some Dodge 600's on the road, at least when they're not being shipped to Canada to be chainsawed and duct taped on "The Red Green Show."

Ed

kate5000

with 3-point star etc... he he he

paisan

Except I think all the Dodge 600s used the better Mitsubishi engine...

-mike

ateixeira

The convertibles were interesting (most are). Dodge pretty much only used the labels to distinguish some models.

-juice

kens

Speaking of badges, one of my minor peeves with Subaru has been too many badges on their vehicles. I'd like to see fewer words on future models -- makes for a cleaner look. Patti?

Ken

paisan

wow, I though subaru used the least of most manufacturers...

-mike

ateixeira

I think besides the "AWD" stickers, it's pretty tastefully done.

If we're only getting 8 of the changes we asked for, that wouldn't make *my* list.

-juice

paisan

Are actually there for a reason. If your car gets towed, at least in some states, if you don't have the AWD stickers there, the towing company is not responsible for damage done to your diffys, etc.

-mike