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Comments
-Frank P.
The only other manu-matic I've driven is a '00 TL. According to the specs, Acura says it shifts quicker than in the normal automatic mode. It did feel/seem to be more responsive to the gear selection than the Auto-Stick, IMHO.
-Brian
I raced a few guys with new eclipse v6 5-speeds @ auto-x with upgraded lower profile tires on thier cars and beat both of them by at least 2-3seconds with my 13 year old XT6!
-mike
The B4's engine probably could not tow. Most turbos are not tuned for that type of hauling, if you know what I mean.
My guess is the ST-X will basically carry a street price a bit higher than the Outback, especially with the H6. Maybe $25k. I think if they have two engines, the other would be the Phase II 2.5l N/A, for $2k less.
Frank: the Volvo XC I drove was the same way. I had to tap the shift button at 4000rpm to get a shift at redline. Programming is key - they have to respond immediately (better ones do).
-juice
I still think a man-u-matic is better than an automatic without that capability.
Bob
Ironically, it was a great transmission in the standard mode. Crips down shifts, quick responses. Much faster than when controlled manually. I don't get why they'd tune it that way.
-juice
Remember, a regular automatic does not have this feature of keeping it in a specific gear. If you put a regular automatic in "3," for example, it will run though gears (both up and down) 1, 2, & 3; it just wont upshift into gear 4. With a man-u-matic, it will stay in gear 3, until it absolutely has to shift to avoid stalling, or until you select another gear. A man-u-matic just gives the driver a little more control as to what gears he or she wants to use.
Bob
-mike
-Colin
-mike
-Colin
-mike
If Trooper's had a problem tipping, he would be the first to know.
Dennis
if you beat them autocrossing, then yes you certainly outdrove them. good job!
-Colin
-mike
-juice
Many years ago I made a lot of money off of owners of vehicles that should have beat mine but didn't. Some came back for 2nds and thirds and never understood.
Oy, I could tell you stories...
Regards,
Frank
-mike
- WRX presentation
- track test (more like an autoX circuit)
- street test
The presentation was ok. I mean for us Scoobynut, it's pretty basic stuff. I was rearing to go on the track test which is basically like an autoX course. There were 5 WRXs to be tested. Actually before we can jump into them and let lose some hell we were given a 10minute 'lecture' on performance driving by one of the top performance instructor in Canada. It was really good. He was really kewl about the entire thing. Anyways 3 5spds and 2 autos. I got to take a 5spd WRX sedan out. They won;t let us do 5000rpm drops. max 1500rpm! Yikes! Hmm... well it does have good pickup. Won't yank you like the bigger 2.5l RS. Maybe I wasn't used to the car yet and the course, I came out a bit disappointed. I felt the handling to be vague compared to my GC8 Impreza. Eck. There seemed to be a lag when I crank the wheel before the car begins to turn! As a result I hit one of the cones. =( eventhough the instructor told us to keep to a certain speed on each part of the course sections, I didn't care less. I let 'er go like there's no tomorrow. Hhahaha.... In the tight course, it is quite hard to stay on boost. So it didn't feel very quick. I thought I would get another chance to go out again since I noticed a few guys actually went out twice! But that chance didn't come and I was quite pissed since I figured the 2nd time would give me a better chance to drive the car having familiarised myself with the track more.
However we were all given the chance to ride with the instructors on the track and boy o boy! It was fun! The instructor really pushed the car all over the place. He was performing 4 wheel drifts on the corners on the dry tarmac ground and with 3 passengers too!!!! Was tre kewl. IMHO it is not the fastest way to go on the course, but I think it demonstrates how compose the car can be on these situations. needless to say the drifts like dat on a dry road course can only be done on lousy tires and guess what came shodded with the WRX? RE92s. They are pretty much bald.
Overall feel : still disappointed! =(
Then came the street test. Since it's on the streets, there won't be any chance for me to push the car at all. So I was not keen on going, but I went anyways. 9 WRXs were available for this session and I managed to jump into a 5spd silver WRX wagon. Oh so yummy. We bascaily caravan around some streets. However wonders of wonders, there were a few traffic lights which the lead cars went thur but I didn't.... or maybe I didn't want to. So naturally i should catch up right? Catch up I did. And that's when that wonderful WRX turbo kicked in. Wheee!!!!!! Totally love that midrange punch. Oh man. It was fast! I love to wind this sucker up to redline! And the WRX wagon likes it too I figured. Totally way faster than my RS. Phuey! Alas my confidence for this car has been restored. I love it. And I had passengers in the car with me too. Whee!!! Wish I can take the car to some other more open area.
Overall feel : Wheee!!!!!
I sincerely think that this car will not go any further than G stock for autoX. It is heavy and off boost, the car is a slug. But on tracks or any canyon carving duties, the WRX is awesome! The suspension is firm but not bone jarring. For the money, this car simply blows others away! Still think this car has lots of potential tho.
Oh yes, we got free BBQ after the event.
I will not bother reviewing the interior or the looks of the car as it is not important to me. Yes, I do love the seats! The MOMO wheel to me is not as good as it is hard. It doesn't have that cushiony feeling of my RS's wheel. But who cares. I don't care.
I'm sure I prolly left out other stuff about the test and drive day, but that's all I can remember right now. Later!
Oh yes, the event was very well organised! Kudos to the boyz and gals from Subaru. But where is Richard Burns?!
Dennis
-juice
Stephen
Bob
http://210.254.95.20/showroom/pleo_rs/
I think it was you that first mentioned Automobile mag.'s article on the H-6 in the STX (or New Brat as they say is possible).
I took a quick look at that article and it said something like (paraphrasing here) .."Like the concept, the production variant will feature AWD and a flat 6.."
AFIK, no concept had a flat 6. I believe most had the S/C or N/A 4. The six would probably appeal to more "truck types" though and be better suited for off-roading and towing.
Although does an S/C have any lag?
Dennis
Dennis
Sport Shift 7? Hopefully that means 7 ratios! Can you imagine?
-juice
BTW, MY03 should be an interesting year for Subie folks. Besides getting a new Forester and pickup, this will be the fourth MY for the current Legacy/Outback. I would bet that these models will also be in for some upgrades.
Remember, many, many, MANY posts ago I predicted that Subaru would be switching to a 5-year model lifespan. That's what's happening with the Forester, which debuted in MY'98. This year, MY'02, is the fifth year for this product, and it was upgraded last year ('01), which was the fourth model year for this vehicle, and will be all new for the next model year. MY'03 will also be the fourth model year for the current Legacy/Outback, so we should expect a similar refurbishing for those models.
Bob
Hopefully, "refurbishing" means a turbo. Impreza sales went up 222% with the turbo. Do you think Outback sales went up that much when the H6 came out?
Me neither...
-juice
OB owners want more power for towing, not speed. I'd imagine most Forester Owners would want towing not speed as well.
-mike
I really do think, however, there could be some pleasant surprises for Legacy/Outback fans for MY03. I think some of the "surprises" that we will see on the new pickup could also occur on the Outback and Legacy models for that year. I think an increase in power should be a given. Just my guess...
Bob
-juice
-Colin
We'll see how Audi's sells now that they offer it here (in an engine that actually has some torque). FWD only though.
-juice
Widely-available and functional CVTs could change the landscape of engine design, that's for sure. Who cares about a flat torque curve?
-Colin
I drove the car for 2 days in and around the Worcester, MA area. Didn't get much opportunity to use the manumatic, but when I did I wasn't that thrilled with it either. There were several other things that really irked me about the car, though:
1. Brakes and steering way overboosted - I felt like I was driving a Buick. I could never get the hang of modulating the brakes properly, much to the chagrin of my passengers. Power was adequate.
2. Power windows were extermely touchy; I barely tapped the switches and it was either auto-up or auto-down, nothing in between.
3. Climate control too complex and not intuitive.
4. There's only one lock on the exterior of the car, in the drivers' door. None in the passenger's door or in the tailgate. I suppose this is some Swede's idea of active safety or driver convenience, but I found it irritating.
5. I never could find a comfortable position for the steering wheel.
6. Subjective, but the styling is kind of goofy. Not just the by-now traditional Volvo wagon styling cues, but there's a big bulge in the waistline - the doors bulge out about 2" fron the bottom of the windowsills. I remember seeing a 1929 Buick with a similar bulge and was told by its owner that these "pregnant Buicks" sold poorly because of that styling. The rubber masked front end is an acquired taste at best.
On the plus side, the seats were very comfy - kind of like sitting in a big catchers' mitt.
I didn't get to drive it in bad weather so I can't judge the effectiveness of its AWD system. I can just say that, having driven an Outback H6 VDC, I don't see that the Volvo offers that much more value for money over the Subaru. Only the snob appeal of the Volvo badge and the continuing shock of paying over $30K for a Subaru would seem to put people in the XC over the VDC.
Just my opinions, but I'll restrict my interest in Volvos to the occasional desire to own a P1800ES.
Ed
I agree with most of the rest of your impressions. Especially the built-in gray or brown "bra" look. Yuck.
Great seats, but the huge head rests create blind spots almost by themselves.
You didn't comment on the handling, or was that what the Buick comment referred to? Way too floaty, never quite settling in for a turn. Pass the dramamine.
The price on the one I drove was over $40k. Heck, never mind the H6, I prefer my dad's Outback Limited, even with the boxer four.
-juice
FYI: the 1929 "pregnant Buick" was a Harley Earl design. This from americanheritage.com:
"After a slow start - Earl received no visitors at all during his first three days on the job - the divisions began to assign him jobs like choosing paint colors and upholstery fabrics. Then Larry Fisher asked Earl to help face-lift the 1928-29 Cadillacs, and O. E. Hunt assigned Art & Colour to style Chevrolet's first six-cylinder car, the 1929 model. Buick likewise commissioned A&C to design its new 1929 line.
"This last job did not turn out well, giving Earl a temporary setback. The 1929 Buick had a stylistic device known as a "rolled beltline." This meant that the line around the body just below the windows - the beltline - "rolled," or puffed outward, ever so slightly. When Walter P. Chrysler caught his first glimpse of the 1929 Buick, he snickered and said the car looked "pregnant." The press repeated Chrysler's remark, and within a week the entire country was calling it the Pregnant Buick?this at a time when the word pregnant was rarely used in polite society. The nickname stuck, and Buick sold 56,000 fewer cars in its 1929 model year than it had the year before. Buick blamed Earl, and Earl later blamed the Fisher Body Division, which, he said, had changed his body drafts.
"And it's true: Earl's earliest problems had to do with Fisher Body's engineering establishment. Fisher engineers didn't like to be told how to bend sheet metal. They'd done nicely before Earl came aboard and didn't see much need for his services now. So when Earl suggested styling changes, like the slightly different beltline, Fisher's engineers told the car divisions that such things would add to production costs. It took Earl a while to learn the game, and some of the lessons - the Pregnant Buick in particular - were hard."
Ed
Just took a look at the SOJ website on the Pleo. Colin guessed correctly. The Pleo gets a CVT transmission with 7 "simulated" gears. You can shift directly from the steering wheel via switches and the shift times are apparently 0.2 secs.
Ken
Bob
It's purely psychological. Some people might wanna "shift", so the marketing guys convinced the engineering guys to add this feature.
-Colin
So the engine pitch doesn't get higher, like you expect it too. It's kind of hard to tell how fast you were going.
That scooter was double-wierd: it also had a 2 cycle engine, and that results in basically no engine braking. So it took forever to coast to a stop.
2 cycles are probably going to be gone because of noise and pollution. CVTs will survive if they can get drivers used to the way they work.
-juice
But IMO, CVT can become a Tuners dream!
I mean, think about this... You can use the computer to program the engine for different situations, like to get the perfect torque or HP constantly for drags, races, or auto-crosses... Then you can program it to get perfect Fuel economy... Or program it for off roading or steep hills...
The only problem is developing a input system for this that the driver can use! But man, just think about out... Its awesome!
"There's a team working on product development, procurement, financial services, and these kinds of areas where we can utilize the power GM has and the power Subaru has in terms of things like AWD technology or CVT engineering. In fact, it's been announced that FHI will be the center of AWD technology and CVT technology for the GM group."
Dennis
-mike
Ed
I think you're off track with the Escalade and Aztek thinking. Escalade is a truck and that's not Subaru's cup of tea. I doubt they'll have any influence whatsoever on GM's trucks.
Aztec is going down in flames, and GM stubbornly refuses to axe it. Besides, they already have the Versatrak AWD and it's a minivan platform - again, something Subaru knows little about.
So where do I think Subaru will help GM? Small to mid-size car-based crossover vehicles. That's where we'll see the AWD.
The CVT, IMO, will be used overseas, mostly in Asia, on tiny cars not even sold here.
-juice
-mike
Question is, does Subaru have anything in its stable that can handle that kind of monstrous torque.
At a minimum there would be a learning curve.
-juice