Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rsholland

Has the Hombre pickup (a rebadged S-10) been discontinued? Also, what about the Honda minivan Isuzu? Isn't that still around?

Bob

paisan

Both have been gone since '98 or '99. The new oddessey never made it to an Isuzu Badge, and the hombre got discoed back in late '98, there were a few '99s around but they went quickly (the hombre actually was a good seller) Right now the Isuzu lineup is:

Axiom (new)
Rodeo (re-designed in '98)
Rodeo Sport/Amigo (re-designed in '98)
Vehicross (2001 is the last year)
Trooper ('98 semi-redesign)

All SUVs All the time

-mike

barresa62

Doesn't Isuzu still rebadge the Rodeo as the Passport for Honda?

Stephen

paisan

Yes Honda does buy Rodeos and re-badge them as the Honda Passport, the #s are very slim though of Passport production.

-mike

ateixeira

When Honda gets their version of the MDX, they'll stop selling the Passport. For now they'll keep it, because it's still profitable.

Profitability is key. If Subaru can sell a pickup, it'll allow more R&D funding for the type of cars we like. I would never own a pickup, but I would not mind if Subaru used those profits to develop a WRX convertible or a Blitzen for the US market.

-juice

paisan

Yep as soon as they finish the 2nd plant or expanded plant, they can crank out more oddesseys and MDXs and then kill the passport. They don't sell many, mostly cause they are 2K more than a rodeo with 3/36K warranty compared to 3/50K BtoB on the Rodeo and 10/120K on the powertrain.

-mike

pattim3

FYI - The article that mentions STI was a bit premature. There is no agreement yet. SOA is waiting to see how the WRX is received before they will commit. No date is set or projected yet. We'll have to wait and see for at least a few months.

Patti

rsholland

Re: North American STi

This should be a no-brainer of a decision.

Bob

big_guy

What part of the country are you from that Subarus are scarce. Here in the Rocky Mountains, 1 out of every 15 cars seems to be a Subaru. In my neighborhood alone, there are about 15 Subaru Outbacks. I guess geography can play a big part in car popularity.

rsholland

Subarus are very popular in the snow belt (Rockies, New England, etc.), less so in the sun belt.

Bob

FrankMc

Although Central PA doesn't have too much snow (30 inches on average a year), the AWD has a very strong following in the hills. We seem to have alot of Subies in my area.

Frank

thecat

A friend stopped by on Sat. afternoon and wanted to know if I opened up a Soob dealership. There were 5 in my driveway .. my 2 plus 3 belonging to visitors. We only let Soob owners through the front door.
- hutch

subearu

I live in the Midwest, specifically Kenosha, WI (just between Milwaukee and Chicago). I do see some Subaru's - mostly Outbacks, Foresters, an occasional Outback Sport, and even a few Legacy's and Imprezas (still no WRX's). But, they are very few of the total auto population here. I'm guessing that around here, maybe 1 in 10 is a Subaru. (pure speculation on my part)

We were in Denver in Sept. '99 and Subaru's were everywhere. So I agree it's location, location, location.

-Brian

rsholland

I think the Midwest is still very much influenced by Detroit products. A lot of people, either directly or indirectly, earn their living via the success of Detroit products. If they don't, they have family or friends who do. So, the the lack of Subarus (or other imports) is understandable, even though that is clearly part of the "snow belt."

For example, I have cousin who lives in Lansing MI. He owns a real estate firm. He told me that he buys GM products, not so much because he likes them, but many of his clients have ties to the auto industry, and Lansing has a big GM factory there. He feels that he needs to support—and certainly not alienate, his clients and neighbors. I'm not sure I agree with him, but I certainly understand where he's coming from.

Bob

nygreg

If you go north of the city you seen many Soobs and dealerships. Where I live the roads are hilly and twisty and become very fun during snow storms which typically dumps more snow on us since we are away from the effects of the ocean and the Long Island Sound. I believe as you get closer to the city, the Soob population becomes less (pure speculation) since the roads are flatter and straighter, yet, there are a lot of SUVs. Go figure (boats??). Anyway, my block alone has 3 (including my new OB ).

-Greg

lark6

...except in mountainous areas. Witness my lamentation with Dennis of the lack of dealers and service in the Myrtle Beaach, SC area. My kayaking and outdoorsy friends in north GA, NC and TN had a lot of them - a college buddy of mine in Atlanta had a Loyale for many years which was a factor in my going Subaru. He's gone Infiniti on me now - he has a QX4, his wife a G20t. While they're nice vehicles they could've spent their money more wisely elsewhere, if you know what I mean.

Ed

kate5000

I know, I know it's totally off-topic... but Ed's message about his friend who went Infiniti prompted me. Here it goes:

> Picture this: top of the line silver BMW, with tasteful chrome trim.
> Driver in expensive suit. Nice shades. Carefully coiffed hair not
> moving an inch in the breeze from the open sunroof. Leather
> briefcase in passenger seat. License plate reads: IAMNDET

bluesubie

Even if I return to someplace in the sun belt, I'll still drive a Subaru.
Subes love lots of rain and the occasional dirt road.

Dennis

rsholland

you will start seeing more Subies in the south, now that the WRX is making such a splash.

Here's vehicle that finally says to the entire world, AWD is to your benefit, no matter where you live. The word will get out eventually.

Bob

yellowbikedon

And don't forget, when my wife and I arrive in Boynton Beach this weekend for our relocation, the Subaru population will increase by two! I'll be driving the LL Beaner down and my wife's Impreza will be transported by an auto carrier. The trip is just a shade under 1,350 miles. I'll share the experience of the ride once the moving van arrives and my PC is connected again. Anyone ever do this type of trip with a parrot as a passenger? When the major airlines refused to allow the parrot (in cage and fastened by the seat belt) aboard, my wife said..., well you can guess why I'm driving! The parrot, BTW, is a 13 year old green wing macaw and is too large to fit under a seat,

Coming from the Midwest, we both believe the AWD will be a decided safety factor in the "tropical" rains. Maybe not as good as in the snow but a plus factor never the less!

We'll do our part to spread the gospel. Now, if we can find reliable and fair service in the area...

Don

lark6

Dennis: yep, the kind of dirt roads we see in the eastern Carolinas just beg for AWD. Many years ago, when there was a VW/Porsche/Audi dealer in Myrtle Beach (Holcombe Motors), I got to drive one of the early '80's Audi Quattros in some of the unpaved areas that are now covered with outlet malls, golf courses and subdivisions. What a blast.

Kate: what I meant about Infinitis is that, except for the Q45, they are all rebadged Nissans (QX4 = Pathfinder and G20 = Primera, non-US model) and I don't think you get all that much for the premium in price. I have another couple friends living in Florida who have a QX4 and I30 (= Maxima) who tried to convince me to buy a used QX4 instead of the Forester. No thanks, even if they helped pick up the car payment.

Ed

paisan

I thought the G20 was a modified sentra? Could be me though. Also Is there any infinities outside the us? I thought outside the US Acura and Infinity were just high-line Nissans and Hondas?

-mike

kostamojen2

Considering the sheer number of cars around here (theres like an average of over 3 per household), and the proximity to the Sierra's, I see alot of Subaru's every day around here in the Sacramento area.

And yes, the G20 is just a luxury coated last-gen Sentra.

drew_

AFAIK, the G20 is a Nissan Primera, and not a last generation Sentra. I'll also add that the Nissan Primera was very successful as a British Touring Car Championship entry.


Drew
Host
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dannyka

As you would guess, here in Utah, Subarus are everywhere (7 of 30 cars at my company). However, I'm amazed at just how few Subarus there are in the Fresno, CA area. My mom lives there and I visit about once a month. When I go, I really look for them, but I've seen probably only two different ones on the city streets in the last year! What a difference a few hundred miles make (south of Sacramento).

-Dan

soon2bsubee

Don, your parrot should feel right at home here in S. Florida...in fact, ther are always flocks of parrots flying around here in Coral springs...I guess they are birds that escaped from homes. I will email you with my number and hopefully we can get together once you are settled in. JuSt make sure that your bird is a parrot and not an EX-PARROT (HA!)
Serge

kate5000

I never understood why so many cars do not have lights auto-off when ignition key's out.

I'd like to ask Subaru, however, to also make map lights to go off as well. I recently left one map light on by accident, and almost drained my battery -- but noticed it on time so no need for a jump.

miksmi

I never noticed this but I'll check the GT. Good idea.

..Mike

paisan

That's funny. I left the map lights on on my subaru over-night w/o any ill effects same with my trooper. I also like to use them post pulling the key or pre-inserting the key (sometimes to find where the key goes)

-mike

big_guy

I too live in Utah and I see Subaru's of all sorts all over the place. I have even seen two WRX's parked near my office (a blue sedan and a silver wagon). I just wish Subaru would make the rear seat room a little bigger in their autos . . . they are a bit tight for the taller folk.

ateixeira

Yep, a G20 is sold in Europe as the Nissan Primera. It's longer and wider than the Sentra, though I'm sure underneath they share at least some components. Sportier, though.

The next one ought to change dramatically. Think about how little sense it makes to sell a 145hp near-luxury G20 and a V6 Altima and Maxima.

-juice

scarwaf

I live in ventura calif (moorpark)A few years ago you hardley would see a subaru. NOW your seeing them pop up all over.from 1998 to 2001

kate5000

on hwy 880 today, I saw a rear-ended new RAV4... not a pretty picture! The whole tailgate was kind of folded in the middle under the spare tire. It looked like it was hit by a taller SUV or truck, but the only other car parked beside it on the shoulder was a Grand Am. Grand Am had its front bumper damaged and front of the hood was slightly raised and half-folded. Did not look like a strong hit, because all the headlights on Grand Am were intact. Grand Am's insurance will take a bath with this one, I guess.

ateixeira

In both IIHS bumper tests, at just 5mph mind you, the rear glass shattered.

Can you imagine having a child back there?

-juice

kate5000

I'm dying to take a peek at the sketch of how new Forester 2003 will look. I almost sold my husband to trade in his Accord for a new Forester, but not sure if to get 2002 or redesigned 2003. Redesign is not always for the better, and styling is a very important factor to us. Patti, any help from SOA, re: preview Forester 2003? Anyone saw any spy pictures?

ateixeira

None yet, but I'd love to see them too.

I'd say wait. Even if the Accord is boring, it'll at least hold up until then, and you can have two slightly different Foresters.

-juice

rsholland

is that the 2003 Forester will debut in Japan in late August, with shipments to Europe in late fall, and then to the USA around March. That's how the Impreza debut was handled. I suspect the rollout for the new Forester will be much the same.

Bob

kate5000

I suspect they will delay major redesign. Patti just recently was collecting wishlists for new Forester. Sounds to me there's no time left to retool the factory for major changes. Well, they will release "new" forester, with some minor styling changes, but it will be it.

If we're talking release in August in Japan, then I'd expect spy/guess sketches to crawl all over the web by now. A few months ahead of official Impreza's roll-out we all knew already how it will look. Same for new RAV and redesigned Grand Cherokee. Your thoughts on this?

rsholland

I think we will start getting "bits-'n-pieces" shortly in the various car rags, just to tease us.

The design is locked in stone by now. They're just tweaking the details at this point. Let's hope they get it right. For me the key upgrades are: better towing capability, better towing capability, and better towing capability. Oh, a little extra room, and more power would be nice too.

Bob

ateixeira

I think we'll see spy photos starting this summer.

To get an basic idea, I'd expect the Forester to change about as much as the Impreza did. Hopefully it'll get the multilink rear suspension too, though. If I could pick only one thing, well, heck, it would be a tough choice between that suspension and a turbo option.

Can we get both? ;-)

-juice

kate5000

Turbo Foresters are already all over the world sans the USA...

rsholland

it will have more of a smooth look. By that I mean I hope it leans more towards the Legacy/Outback, rather than the Impreza.

By that I don't mean more streamlined. I just think the 2000 Legacy/Outback is a more successful visual upgrade than the new Impreza is, and... I hope that more Legacy/Outback designers worked on new Forester than Impreza designers did.

Bob

paisan

You need the H6 for Torque! Towing capacity is more important than speed for the SUVish market.

-mike
"There's no replacement for displacement"

leomort

Truthfully, I only find intrusive rear wheel towers objectionable---increase rear legroom/cargo capacity. To me, there isn't much to "fix" on the Forester.

Leo

armac13

basically I agree with you - there just isn't much to "fix". Unfortunately, I think a Subaru has to be significantly better than the competition in order to sell reasonably well. Improving rear seating room and power should reestablish the Forester as a clear class leader. The others, with the exception of the CRV are all newer designs, and the CRV is about to be changed.

Ross

locke2c

Good point Kate, but the turbo Foresters are low-pressure 2.0L. I think most North Americans would prefer the current naturally aspirated SOHC 2.5L over that engine, although the 2.0L turbo should get better gas mileage on the highway. Pure speculation of course as I've never driven one. ;-)

To me what North America needs is a naturally aspirated 3.0L H6 Forester or a low-pressure turbo 2.5L four.

Whatever it is, it probably needs to be built in Indiana because if both the Forester and Impreza continue to rapidly gain popularity they will have import tariff issues.

-Colin

rsholland

Use some of GM's extra (unused) production capacity. I think Subaru is producing pretty close to max capacity. They'll need to start looking elsewhere, if they want to grow to any degree.

Bob

lark6

...will at least have better paint than the current models. If a low-pressure turbo can be added to the Phase II EJ25, I may have to line up for one in a couple of years.

Ed

ateixeira

I'll take a turbo, but a 2.5l turbo would be best. Some 2.0l turbos overseas makes only 168hp, so it's not enough of an upgrade (at least on paper).

-juice

kate5000

do you find paint on OB and Legacy built in Indiana better than on Forester/Impreza built in Japan? I'm just curious.