Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

1…2829313334…446

Comments

  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, Bryan. Let's switch channels. What would you like to teach your kids/grandkids to drive in, say, 5 years from now?

    How 'bout a 5 speed automatic turbo-H6 Legacy?

    Leo: we don't even know the official name for the ST-X yet. Pricing will be a while.

    Cool, Bob. I'd like to see the G-wagen and the EVO. I'm peeved that Honda dropped the 'bones for the RS-X and Si. They turned their backs on the performance scene. Honda's loss is Subaru's gain.

    -juice
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Australian Legacy (Liberty), will soon get the twin-turbo B-4 (lucky folks!). Here's some of the details.

    This is exactly what we need here!

    Bob

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_SUB/doc_sub0104051/article.html
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sound like a poor man's S4. Seriously - twin turbo, 17" wheels, sedan body, even the blue inserts in the seats!

    -juice
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's got the Momo wheel from the WRX, and the same high-zoot Mac-audio unit from our Outback VDC—with an additional 6-disk CD changer mounted under the passenger seat.

    I bet our '02 Outback VDC gets that same 6-disk unit. It's a shame they couldn't design it to fit in the dash. An under seat unit is very inconvenient.

    Bob
  • Options
    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010410/phtu018.html


    2002 Outback H6-3.0 VDC sedan. Not quite the wagon that was earlier reported, eh?


    -Colin

  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, some wagon!

    On the B4, lose the expensive stereo, the Momo steering wheel, and the BBS wheels, and bring it over here for $28k.

    -juice
  • Options
    amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    so I wasn't wrong in saying the press gets it wrong alot!
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tons of mistakes in the press.

    Look at the Consumer Reports car issue. They say the Dodge vans are getting the new 3.5l V6, but it was cancelled long ago, victim of cost-cutting.

    They also mention the Cougar S is on the way - again, that was cancelled long ago. SVT is for Fords only, not Mercury.

    There were more. And those were just the ones I noticed!

    -juice
  • Options
    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Okay gang, please forgive me for not being quicker on the draw with this. A black Highlander pulled up next to me at a traffic light while I was on the way to work this AM. Am I crazy or does this thing look like a Forester photocopied at 125%? The grille and headlight treatments aren't quite the same but the fender bulges, taillight treatments, greenhouse and windows are all very, very similar. Then again I thought the Lexus RX300 looked suspiciously like the Mercedes M-Class.

    Should Subaru's IP lawyers be on the case?

    Ed
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So many vehicles look alike that the lawyers wouldn't know where to stop.

    The Highlander is relatively plain looking, so you could say it copies visual cues from just about any other SUV.

    -juice
  • Options
    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Okay. sorry, juice. Maybe it was the rain that blurred my vision. I do recall seeing recently that DaimlerChrysler's Jeep division sued Daewoo over the design of its Korando small SUV - looked too much like a Wrangler for their liking. Now I see that the Jeep Liberty comes out and looks a lot like the Daewoo product!

    Ed
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I saw side-by-side photos and the familiarity is uncanny. I'm sure Jeep already knew what the Liberty would look like at that point, so they sued.

    But Jeep owns that overall look. The Liberty copied the Wrangler (and Dakar concept), not the Korando.

    -juice
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd say that the rear of the Gallant looks strikingly familar to the BMW 3 series... Did Jeep win? That is the question, anyone can sue anyone else for anything now-days.

    -mike
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I do think the Highlander looks like a Forester, scaled up about 125%. It's also scaled up in terms of content and price.

    Bob
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Price is more like 150% though. Fitz sells both, and while loaded Foresters run in the $23k range, their cheapest 4x4 Highlander is almost $10 grand more.

    They seem really nice, but $32,567 without a 3rd row seat or a low range? It's worth $28k, maybe $30k (the invoice cost), IMO. paisan - insert your Trooper plug here. With more power and capability, he has a point.

    Jeep managed to keep Daewoo from getting the Korando here as of yet, so I'd say until now they have won.

    -juice
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over on the Highlander forum, of loaded models in the $35K range. Now you're talking MDX or RX 300 or ML320 kind of $$.

    Bob
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd plug the Axiom v. the Highlander. More stuff, real frame, tons more towing, low-range, AWD, longer warranty, and no nickle and diming on options :)

    The Trooper is just hands down the best bang for your buck (since they sell for about $27,500K fully loaded w/o leather) :)

    -mike
  • Options
    francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Troopers deliver bang for the buck, alright. Especially if you're backing up.

    (Grinning, ducking and running!)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    we saw that coming...but I agree. That kind of pricing makes it uncompetitive. Hopefully it's just because it's new.

    Fitz sells 4x4 Axioms for $28.7 to $30.3, so it has a good $5 grand price advantage. Plus it offers more power, utility, towing(?), low range(?), etc.

    So you could more easily justify the price premium over that Forester we were talking about.

    -juice
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Haaaa!!!

    Very Funny! :)
    Especially if I'm driving. (Mach 3 in the Forward Gears, only Mach 1 in reverse!)

    -mike
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    "More Buck for the Bang?"

    (Grinning wider, ducking quicker and running faster!)

    Bob
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You drive a FORD Exploder.... People in glass houses shouldn't be throwing BOULDERS! :)

    "do you know who I know? do you know who I am? You *may* know who we are, but we *know* who you are!" -Bobby DeNiro

    Man I can't win today! :)

    -mike
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Touché! :)

    Bob
  • Options
    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    it's not my joke, someone said it while back on the Highlander topic. At the same time, I think Forester is a pre-1998 Grand Cherokee with growth problems.

    Although not a Trooper fan, I'm with Paisan on that boxy=good (good looks, good function).
    The Highlander's not boxy enough for me. Cannot wait to have a peek at 2003 Forester. Hopefully it won't look anything like new RAV4.
  • Options
    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ah, how refreshing to have Kate (and her humor) back. Made my day!

    The Forester has been a sales hit, so changes ought to be evolutionary. They still sell every one they can make with no rebates.

    I say keep it boxy, just a tad bigger. If it gets the same level of changes that the 2002 Impreza got, I'd be happy. Oh, and that includes more power!

    -juice
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've seen at least 2-3 serious buyers back out of the forester because of the rear seat legroom. It's a shame but I understand their not wanting to buy. I truely hope that it is addressed in the re-design.

    -mike
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess it's for small familes, with maybe one kid and a dog.

    If someone has two kids, I recommend the Outback instead.

    3 kids and you're minivan-bound. At least the Trooper, Explorer, M-class, MDX, and Montero offer 3 rows now, but I still can't imagine loading kids back there. The XL7 is for tots only, since 3rd seat legroom is non-existent.

    -juice
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well, the people that were looking were either 2 person families, of families with kids who are about 16 or 17. They felt that there was no reason to buy a car that had an almost useless back seat even if they rarely use it, they felt if they needed to put people in the back there wouldn't be enough room. If they move the seat back just 2" or 3", it would make a world of difference.

    -mike
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe those were big/tall folks, but I find the seat useful, if not overly roomy.

    I have a 21 month old in a baby seat in the middle, plus a nanny (admittedly a petite one), and a small dog. You know how many road trips I do - usually about 6-8 per year, usually 3-7 hours each.

    So it certainly has meet my needs, more so than our bigger 626.

    OK, if your kids play center in basketball, I'd go for something bigger. But even in a Rodeo or an Axiom, they'd sit in a "knees in the chest" position, which is no more comfortable, despite acres of room.

    Bottom line is I still agree with you. Plenty of folks could use the extra room - but the wheelbase is short and the strut towers get in the way. So either lose the struts and go with the Outback's multi-link rear, or stretch the wheelbase a couple of inches.

    -juice

    PS You just gotta sit in my Miata once. You have no idea what cramped feels like!
  • Options
    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Try out the rear seats of the XT6 and you'll see what cramped is all about :) At least the miata doesn't tease you with a rear seat :)

    -mike
  • Options
    hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    I went with an OB rather than a Forester for just that reason - rear seatroom. My oldest is already approaching Mom's size (and he's only 9!) - and the little ones already kick my seatbacks from their booster seats. They'd be boxing my ears or footprinting my bald spot in the Forester!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they'll kick your seatbacks pretty much no matter what you're in!

    That's why I got the DVD/notebook in back - to keep the little one happy and calm.

    -juice
  • Options
    dannykadannyka Member Posts: 115
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I put my 2-year old behind me in the Forester and he's giving me a, umm..., "back-rub" with his feet through the seat back. :-) And I'm not even close to tall!

    That said, the front is great for the wife and me, and the back is fine for the 3 kids -- 10 yr old, 5 yr old, 2 yr old.

    -Dan
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow - with 3 kids even I'd upgrade to something bigger.

    So, you have the auto back massager option too, eh?

    -juice
  • Options
    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I put together the teenager and toddler on the back seat... with teenager's mentality being about equal to toddler's it works out great.
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Looks like Subaru is still sticking with white-lettered tires. I was hoping they would change to blackwalls, like they did for the OBS.

    Bob

    http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/45785/page016.html
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It appears some posts have been deleted (mine and juice's on the new Acura RSX and the Honda Civic Si). What happened?

    Bob
  • Options
    Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Yes..there was a minor meltdown last evening. I posted a note about it in Meet the Members.

    KarenS
    Host
    Owner's Clubs
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - the OBS got 55 series tires. I doubt anyone even makes OWL tires in that low of a profile.

    So unless the Outback goes to a lower profile 17" wheel, my thinking is it will not get BSW tires.

    Though 17"s would be fine with me!

    -juice
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I was hoping that even if they stuck with 16" rims, they would go blackwall. Oh well, we can always hope for the future...

    Bob
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think it's a big deal. Owners could always mount them inside out, since the tire is symmetrical and not uni-directional.

    Speaking of tires, have you seen the Firestone ads? Kind of interesting...

    Just read up on the NY show. Are you going, BTW?

    The Si is back, but that shifter is whacky looking. Looks like a tree growing out of the dash.

    Read up on the RSX and what caught my attention was that it'll offer a 5 speed automatic and a 6 speed manual tranny! Even the Kia Sedona minivan will offer a 5 speed automatic!

    These are really hitting the mainstream. Subaru fell behind on this trend, big time. Even at $30 grand they don't offer it, while they are becoming common in $22-25 grand vehicles.

    -juice
  • Options
    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Did anyone notice that the Edmund's review of the H-6 Sedan mentions 7.9" of ground clearance?

    Ken
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, I saw that too. I don't believe it, though. They didn't make any changes to the suspension, AFAIK. How did it get a .6" lift all of the sudden?

    Even the stated 7.3" for the Outback is optimistic. The front crossmember below the engine is about 6.5" off the ground, and it's certainly sturdy enough to cause it to high-center. In fact I think it's structural.

    Same with the Forester. They state 7.5", but it's more like 6.8" for that cross member.

    -juice
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice I agree regarding the RSX. A 5-speed automatic, a 6-speed manual on the "S-Type," and stunning looks (IMO) for somewhere in the mid $20's, is terrific. I just wish it had a Subaru logo on the grille with AWD. It's certainly a worthy successor to the Integra.

    I really like the Civic Si too. Finally a bold looking Honda. Interesting that this model comes from the UK, not Japan or the USA. I understand Honda is "thinking" about bring it over. I don't think a definite decision has been made yet. I've always liked hatchbacks. I'm glad to see they're making a resurgence here in the USA.

    I like the shifter. It's similar to the Highlander's approach.

    Juice- I'm heading to the NY show tomorrow. If you want (or are able) to come, e-mail me directly. I'm planning on leaving from BWI Amtrak in the AM.

    Bob
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't like the copy-cat headlights. The design is so derivative, breaking no new ground. Insight here, BMW lights there. Plus they dropped the 'bones, which was what set Hondas and Acuras apart from the masses.

    You'll recall that's about the only thing I didn't like about the Highlander! Well, and the selling price.

    Take a lot of photos. Can't make this one.

    -juice
  • Options
    vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    It's coming:

    http://www.honda2001.com/civicsi/index.html
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No pixs. Don't have digital camara. You can bet on a report though.

    Bob
  • Options
    kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    I have to say that Honda doesnt know what its doing anymore... The RS-X is being targeted for a more luxurious crowd??? Whaaa??? And the styling cues on all of the new Honda's/Acuras are non existant! The most drab, boring looking cars with no lines what so ever... And whats with the even more stubby nose Si?

    $20k+ for the RS-X is NOT a good deal! Why pay that, when I can get the new SE-R or Spec-V with 10-20 more hp and better handling for under 20 grand? Not to mention the RS with 5 more hp and much more torque, the focus SVT with 10 more hp and $2k less... Honda just isnt trying to compete.

    And the Si? What happened to the HP upgrade that honda promised? Sure, its 2.0l now, but for crying out loud! And why would I get the RS-X base when the Si has the same engine for $2k less? Doesnt make sense...

    And the interiors on both cars look more fake-plasticy than anything ive ever seen! Even worse than the Celica... Horrible!

    I hope they both look better in person, and that the loss of the 'bones (which after driving the new Civic in less than good conditions I could REALLY see how crapy of decision that was on behalf of honda!) could possibly ruin any potential these cars had!

    Oh well...
  • Options
    hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Now there's another possible option... Patti? :)

    If all 5 of us are on the road, it's in the Villager... I'll have either Grace or some or all of the kids with me, but never all of us. Mama's next due for an upgrade, and we need to keep a towable car in the family for motorhome trips. Thought about a tow dolly for the van, but opted for the OB instead. The dolly would have been cheaper, but one more thing to stow/unstow while "camping" - we seem to have enough of that sort of thing already... thanks, kids!

    Cheers!
    Paul
    (middle initial is D, but NOT for Dave!)
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles