Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rsholland

I agree. My admittedly limited experience with the Subie CVT has been nothing but positive. My sales guy said that there is a little bit of a "rubber band" feel (typical of CVTs) when starting off, but I really haven't noticed it.

I too like that you can play with the paddle shifters without having to put the car in manual mode. However, it will revert back to auto mode in a few seconds unless you move the gear shift to "manual."

Bob

ateixeira

That makes me want to go out and drive one.

So busy, though, date tonight, flag football tomorrow, guests Friday, ...

Maybe this weekend. Are Imprezas arriving yet?

rsholland

Don't expect any Imprezas for at least a month, maybe more.

Bob

xwesx

The salesman at my local dealership said they expect exactly one in November (supposedly about four weeks out now) that is pre-sold. They have three more that are due to arrive sometime in December, then he expects things to ramp up from there.

I'll probably try out both transmission types in the new car just to see how the CVT feels in the smaller package.

Bob, I'm not precisely sure what "rubber band feel" means, but I did notice that the power delivery seemed to ramp up from a stop. I didn't exactly try for this, but I don't think, for example, that you could "squeal the tires" (setting aside the AWD factor) on this car from a stop unless you were really trying to do so, and perhaps not even then. That said, once you get moving, at moderate acceleration the car's engine speed pops up to ~3800 and it takes off.

Funny enough, my daughter was with me on this drive again, and she didn't seem all that impressed by the car at all. Her attitude was more like, "are we done yet?" :sick:

rsholland

Your translation of my rubber band comment is spot on. It seems a little slow at first, then comes on strong. It's just an idiosyncrasy of CVTs. Some are better or worse than others. Subaru has done a pretty good job here, I think.

Bob

rsholland

Pretty positive.

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/reviews/driven-2012-subaru-impreza/?utm_camp- aign=Weekly+Email&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-234&utm_content=WR74_3b

Bob

ateixeira

Especially this part:

As we used the Impreza’s wheel-mounted paddle shifters, we realized something rather profound: this CVT didn’t make us want to scream angrily at the Subaru engineers. In manual mode, we found them quite useful in controlling our downhill speeds. In straight-line acceleration, the transmission actually did a good job of imitating actual gear changes, rather than simply failing to feel genuine, smooth, or usable, the way many other CVTs do. When left to its own devices, the CVT offered smooth operation, without the buzziness associated with the transmission/engine combinations of other cars. Instead, we were treated to a nice rising song from the healthy boxer engine. In fact, we would almost be okay with opting for the excellent CVT over the simply decent manual transmission, were we a buyer on the lot.

xwesx

*gasp* That does make one mull it over a bit.

xwesx

Okay, then yes, I noticed it!

By no means would I say that, for a car like the Legacy, this trait would be a detractor. The car is so refined and smooth, that trait fits in perfectly. Maybe if I had to make an emergency maneuver from a dead stop.... However, again, I didn't test it in that regard. I didn't try for flat-out acceleration from a stop.

volkov

If you get too aggressive to the point of tire squeal, the TC nanny might kick in and actually slow down the launch anyway. The end result is the same : smooth acceleration from a stop instead of head snap. It has happened to me with the WRX and a little bit of gravel.
That trait might even make it a better winter vehicle.

rsholland

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/10/first-look-video-2012-subaru-imprez- a.html

Bob

ateixeira

Good news, but you sort of expect CR to feel that way, given the direction they've taken this car.

I liked hearing about the agile handling, the good steering, and the fact that they still like the ride. They called the outgoing model the best riding small car many times.

rsholland

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35471198&postcount=160

Also, pics comparing it with the new Impreza.

Bob

ateixeira

8.7" ground clearance.

4.3" display with backup cam *standard*, wow...

Voice-to-text is also new.

HIDs even.

6 speed manual! Finally.

Auto start-stop.

Bigger gas tank, more towing. They really made this more HD.

A lot more differentiation than before.

rsholland

All new Aussie Imprezas get the 6-speed manual, yet we're still stuck with the 5-speed.

Bob

ateixeira

I hope we get the fender flares. Loved the self-healing bumpers/flares on my '98 Forester. Really did a good job preventing dings and scratches, and it was easy to clean as well.

rsholland

Loved it. Quiet, very refined, plenty of power, and best of all—my iPhone phonebook transfers over, at least with NAVI-equipped models. Couldn't do that before, at least on older models. To me that's a huge improvement. The '12 Forester also get this new NAVI unit.

The car is from SOA, and not for sale.

Bob

xwesx

Nice! How were the driving dynamics? I think you are a great critic for that given your daily driver....

rsholland

Didn't really push the car as the salesman was with me, plus it was raining, and there are speed cameras all over Montgomery Co., MD.

I drove it pretty much as the average person would drive it, and it's very nice. It's quieter and much more refined than my WRX. In that kind of driving it was great. Subaru will do well with this car.

I was very impressed with the navigation/Bluetooth. This is the first Subaru in which it will upload your iPhone's contact list. That's a BIG plus for me, as not having that capability really reduces the Bluetooth usability. You can also ask the Bluetooth to call people, and the speaker is very good. I don't know if non-NAVI Bluetooth models have this iPhone/phonebook feature?

While there I picked up the '12 Legacy and Forester brochures, and I noticed the '12 Forester also uses this new NAVI unit.

I'm curious about map updates. It uses a SD memory card (not a DVD). The dealer also sells Hyundais, which have a similar SD-NAVI, and map upgrades are free. He was thinking it may be the same for Subaru, but he wasn't sure.

My wife has an '01 Forester and my son an '06 Outback Sport, both automatics. It felt quicker than the Forester, and about the same as the Outback Sport. It didn't feel underpowered. Now load it up with 4 people and luggage, who knows...

Bob

xwesx

I'm eager to try one out. I don't know why, but for some reason I just can't get that Fiesta I drove a few weeks ago out of my head!

ateixeira

Wait for Ford to sort out the trans - my co-worker had to replace her entire transmission already.

I did like her Purple People Eater, though. That's the color she got.

colin_l

Yep Bob, that phonebook feature you refer to is all about the Bluetooth implementation. It is a big deal for sure.

ateixeira

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Toyota-FT-86-first-drive/259779/-

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Toyota-FT-86-cou- pe-2012-CAR-review-/

Given one has VSC off and the other didn't, sounds like they drove different setups. What's up with the Prius green tires?

Hopefully Subaru's understeers less and comes with better shoes.

[Deleted User]

The 2012 Impreza is looking pretty good and a solid candidate for our next purchase (as soon as possible, but we can push it out into December if needed). I'm trying to figure out a few details regarding the different models and could use your help if you have any insight.
1. Are there differences in the multifunciton display between the Limited and Premium? Will either the Premium or Limited have instantaneous AND average mpg built into their MFDs?
2. I've seen quite a few photos of the base steel/cover and Limited wheels, but not the Premium. Are the Premium 16" alloy wheels different than the 16" Limited version? If so, is there a photo available?
3. Has Subaru (finally) dumped the Potenza RE92 tires? Any idea what rubber is mounted to the Premium and Limited 16" rims?
4. Have any safety crash test scores been posted? I know the 2011 did well in the IIHS test and the 2012 shouldn't be any different, but I'd feel better if tests have been performed. Truly awful NHTSA side impact tests results are why we will not consider a Mazda3. Safety is important to us. Funny thing about the 3 is that the IIHS score was good, but the NHTSA was terrible.
5. Will Subaru (or aftermarket) have accessories available at launch? I'm mostly interested in protective options, like rubber all-weather mats, mud guards, and protective paint film.

I appreciate any info you have.

-Ty

rsholland

1. Are there differences in the multifunciton display between the Limited and Premium? Will either the Premium or Limited have instantaneous AND average mpg built into their MFDs?

I believe the Canadian-spec models do, not sure about US-spec models. In general the Canadian-spec models have more content than ours, at least in the Limited trim level.

2. I've seen quite a few photos of the base steel/cover and Limited wheels, but not the Premium. Are the Premium 16" alloy wheels different than the 16" Limited version? If so, is there a photo available?

Limited (and Sport/Sport Limited) get 17" wheels.

3. Has Subaru (finally) dumped the Potenza RE92 tires? Any idea what rubber is mounted to the Premium and Limited 16" rims?

Not RE92s, but I forgot what they are.

4. Have any safety crash test scores been posted? I know the 2011 did well in the IIHS test and the 2012 shouldn't be any different, but I'd feel better if tests have been performed. Truly awful NHTSA side impact tests results are why we will not consider a Mazda3. Safety is important to us. Funny thing about the 3 is that the IIHS score was good, but the NHTSA was terrible.

Not that I'm aware of.

5. Will Subaru (or aftermarket) have accessories available at launch? I'm mostly interested in protective options, like rubber all-weather mats, mud guards, and protective paint film.

I'm sure they will, or at least very close to launch.

Bob

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the quick response, Bob. I do like the look of the Limited wheels, so those must be the 17" you mentioned. Looks like pricing is roughly $1,300 more for the Limited if you factor in the cold weather package and CVT on the Premium. That's not a bad price for the leather, dual zone auto climate, upgraded radio and nicer rims.

rsholland

From SOA web site:

http://www.subaru.com/impreza/2012/article.html?uri=/impreza-2012/posts/10242011- - _0000/&tq=posts/impreza-2012

From Joe Spitz's web site (a ton of info):

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/impreza2012.html

Tires are Yokohama Avis S34 (found this on Joe's site) for 17" tires; S33 for 15" and S30 on 16" tires.

Bob

[Deleted User]

Thanks again, Bob. Joe Spitz's website is chock full of great info. We'll likely order this week and hope for a quick delivery.

ateixeira

An early congrats, then.

Anyone (besides Bob) driven one?

[Deleted User]

Thanks, but your timing is perfect. We just bought a Limited 5-door in marine blue....well, ordered at least. We didn't want the sunroof or nav, and it sounds like the ones in production come with those, so ours may need to be built and shipped. If I happen to be one of the first to have it come in, I'll be sure to post photos and impressions.

ateixeira

Cool! Hopefully they can intercept one that meets your criteria and was already built.

Our special order Forester arrived in just 5 weeks.

[Deleted User]

I'm hoping you're correct. Ours sales rep said 4 to 6 weeks, which seems optimistic if the order requires a special build in Japan. Our best hope for an early delivery is a match-up with an already-assembled unit in transit right now, like you mentioned. Crossing my fingers....

Since we ordered yesterday we qualified for the $500 incentive, which we plan to apply towards accessories.

xwesx

It's generally all about timing. I ordered mine in Sept 2009, and they told me up to 8 weeks (due to C4C). Two weeks later he called and said it was in... and I flew 2200 miles to pick it up!

Often times, the car is already "built," it's just a matter of getting a line on it.

[Deleted User]

2,200 miles? Yikes. That's true devotion. I'm glad to hear another story of an early arrival as I just received my welcome letter from Subaru stating an estimated January delivery. Any early Christmas would sure be appreciated. Now we need to shop for our $500 in accessories. :shades:

ateixeira

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131

More FT info. Check out that cutaway - the whole block sits below the tires. Nice and low CoG.

Funny that they compare aerodynamics to the RX-8, CR-Z, and Prius.

I'm very happy to read this part:

Each cylinder has both direct and port injection

That should mean no carbon build-up on the intake valves, which has plagued early DI-only setups.

Peak torque comes at 6600 rpms, so this will be a revver. Atypical for Subaru boxers.

once_for_all

wow, that sounds like a set of fun wheels.

Even w/o AWD, I could see myself owning the Subie version.

John

volkov

Prius may not be a sports car, but it is very aerodynamic - part of its FE secret, including low rolling resistance tires. They developped an enclosed underbelly for it for that reason, and weren't hampered by drag inducing down force effects that fancy bellies on performance cars often target.
Just checked, CD = .25 for Prius.

ateixeira

Darn impressive.

Hey, what do you guys think about the FT-86 engine going in to an Impreza, and perhaps brining back the RS name? 2.0RS sounds cool to me.

Same engine could power the XV, too.

rsholland

I had mentioned this to AJ before, but besides the FA20 (BRZ engine) getting DI, they are very different engines. For example the FA20 engine has the same bore and stroke of 86mm (a "square" engine), whereas the the FB20 has a 84mm bore x 90mm stroke (an "under square" engine).

I find this very odd, as Subaru usually tries to simplify things, but having two very different non-turbo 2.0L engines runs counter to that.

Bob

ateixeira

Kinda crazy given the low volumes.

colin_l

If they stick to their guns and don't turbocharge the FB20 engine, which I personally think is a mistake, then the longer stroke will make it a lot easier to add displacement. Boring it out is easier than increasing the stroke in a boxer engine.

I'm with you, Juice. No one would I have used the other brand-spanking-new 2.0L I would've made THAT engine gas direct-injected and I would've offered it in naturally aspirated, low boost turbo, and eventually a high-boost STi variant.

ateixeira

Well, they already have the FB20 and FB25, the latter in the Forester. The EZ36 from the Tribeca and Outback.

Let's assume the EJ is phased out entirely. Then maybe it's not so bad.

They would have FA20, FB in 2 displacements, and EZ.

Makes no sense to have two different 2.0l boxer engines, though.

rsholland

Actually the FB comes in 3 displacements. There's also an FB16 sold to be in the new European and Japanese Impreza (along with the FB20).

Bob

ateixeira

If it's not in 'Murrica, it doesn't exist.

We also forgot the diesel...

rsholland

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_75044.pdf

The hybrid tourer concept supposedly hints at what the next-gen Legacy/Outback might look like.

I love the fact that on this concept they (finally!) removed the "wings" surrounding the logo on the grille. The oval logo (and grille) looks much better without all that extra clutter.

Bob

ateixeira

I see 3 different EyeSight editions/packages, wonder if that's the same backup cam with the small screen we get here?

rsholland

XV CROSSTREK and CROSSTREK, presumably for the new XV when it arrives Stateside. Sounds like a mountain bike; not a bad association given the market segment.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35591560&postcount=1

Also, they applied for DIT (Direct Injection Turbo?) trademark.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2267692

Bob

ateixeira

Neither name is particularly catchy. Of course it's much easier to shoot it down than to come up with a suggestion.

rsholland

I like CrossTrek better than XV.

Bob

ateixeira

Yeah, XV is "Fifteen".

I don't like Prius V for the same reason, or the Sentra SE-R Spec V.

Is it Vee, or Five?