Subaru Crew - Future Models II

paisan

Also I've loaded plywood on my roof racks on a number of ocassions. You could easily do that on your forester or Outback.

-mike

rsholland

Prior to our current home, I spent a good 15 years rehabing a 150 year old rowhouse in a historic Baltimore neighborhood. This was before the mini-van era, and we owned a '72 Chevy G-20 short-wheelbase passenger van. It could handle 4x8s inside with the seat removed. Believe me, trips to the lumber yard were very common, as the whole house needed work.

So, I'm very sensitive to the 4x8 capability issue. If you haven't been through an experience like that, you wouldn't have an appreciation for what I'm saying. Anybody homeowner who "builds" stuff around the house knows what I'm talking about. If you only build once in a blue moon, then I can see your point.

In any event, the "4x8 rule" is a good indicator of how much space you have to work with, whether you haul plywood or not.

Bob

rsholland

For me, one of the most interesting vehicles is the Mercedes 400 Carving, not so much for its looks but for its engineering.

This vehicle, when going around a corner, has its outside wheels leans inwards just like a motorcycle going through a corner. I've seen other picture of this car in a cornering stance. It looks very strange, but it reportedly increases cornering speeds dramatically.

It's reported that this feature will some day make its way on to production models.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/7/332/936/0001/www.edmunds.com/media/2001/tokyomotorshow/mercedes_f400/mb.f400.f3-4.500.jpg

Bob

paisan

See that's where you are soooo funny. It's not the '70s anymore! If you put more than a handful of 4x8 sheets into a mini-van it will exceed the weight carry capability of it, not so with a '72 Van! My dad does tons of re-building around the house and never uses a mini-van, just a utility trailer, if you build often, you'll use the trailer, if you don't build often, you'll be able to borrow/beg/steal a means to get the stuff home. Like I said the roof rack will hold 1/2 dozen sheets of plywood no problem.

-mike

rsholland

It has nothing to do with the 70's. Most roof racks are rated to carry 100 pounds, a few (very few) 150 pounds. If you want to put a 1/2 dozen or so sheets of plywood on your roof rack, be my guest. Not me...

A mini-van easily handle the weight of a handful of plywood sheets. A half-dozen sheets of plywood, even 3/4," weighs 400 pounds max.

Bob

kate5000

I just came back from vacation, where I was driving rental Chevy Malibu LS. Talk about unimpressive! I liked the torque of its 3.1 V6 though.

here's a list of pro's and con's of Malibu as compared to my Forester

Pro's:
-- power driver seat with many ways to adjust
-- DRLs with auto-on/auto-off mode
-- a bit longer front seat cushion
-- a bit more low-end torque
-- good fuel economy in hiway driving (29-30 mpg)
-- nice-looking gauges

Con's
-- vague handling
-- very noisy tires and somewhat noisy engine
-- very poor, almost dangerous road handling in rain (tires hydroplaning like crazy)
-- A/C always resets itself to in-let mode, so I had to switch it back to recirc mode every time after starting the car (in-let mode sucks in exhaust fumes really badly, so you absolutely have to run it in recirc)
-- poor fuel economy in city driving (15 mpg)
-- feels too cramped in the headroom, after plenty of headroom space in Forester (and I'm only 5'3)
-- visibility is much worse
-- when driving in rain, water somehow ends up swirling on the side mirrors, rendering them virtually useless
-- side windows get foggy outside when running A/C for > 2h
-- cargo space (trunk) sucks
-- poorly executed interior, large gaps in sheetmetal panels... GM's written all over it

I found that I was really missing compass and outboard thermometer that my Forester has. I always thought those are just toys, but really wished I had them when traveling in Malibu. I also badly missed rear wiper when driving in rain.

I know, nobody's crosshopping Malibu and Forester, but for the same (even a bit lower) price, I think Forester L offers a lot more.

rsholland

let's put this topic to bed. You and I aren't going to agree, and I'm sure the "Crew" must be bored to death by now...

Bob

paisan

Come now bob, you know why they put that 100lb rating on the rack don't you? It has nothing to do with the actual carrying capacity. It has to do with the guy who will put 300lbs of luggage up there and do 90mph on the highway then cut a hard exit ramp, roll over, and turn around and sue the car maker. If you are carrying 6 sheets of plywood on your rack, going 50mph and take turns in a safe manner, you aren't gonna roll it. Remember that roof has to hold up most of the car in a rollover crash so the roof is quite strong.

-mike

rsholland

I just found this over on the I-Club. TONS of photos (almost 300!) from the Toyko Motor Show, mostly of Subarus.

http://www.subaru.net/events/2001/tokyo/autoshow.html

Enjoy!

Bob

1subydown1togo

Where in Florida did you go?

paisan

Forester, OBS, and OB all have roof racks!

-mike

qbrozen

What is that ultra-mini minivan looking thing? The red one? Is that a Subaru emblem on there? It says Travio on the license plate? Have we talked about that before? I admit, I do miss a lot of things on this board, but I think I would remember that one.

rsholland

It's a joint venture between Subaru and Opel. It's essentially a re-badged Opel, which is also now available with AWD.

Bob

kate5000

I stayed on Miami Beach, and visited Keys and Everglades from there.

I lived in FL when attending U of F in Gainesville (early 90s), but never visited Miami Beach before, so decided to fill this gap. Plus, airfare was too good to miss ($120 roundtrip) and hotels offered huge discounts...

bluesubie

Mike loves an arguement. :-P

The ST-X actually has a slot to carry the proverbial 4x8 sheet of plywood. If the "switchback" doesn't make it to production, this won't be of much use though.

Dennis

ateixeira

I noticed the carving too, but it's unfortunate that it looks just like a Hyundai HCD concept. Seems like another try at the active suspension idea. My concern would be weight and cost - that's what made the earlier systems fail.

Our roof racks are rated for 150lbs. I've carried enough lumber on top to build a 24' section of fence. I'm not saying more space isn't a good thing, it's just that you get diminishing returns at some point, because you carry around all that extra weight even when you don't use the space. That's precisely why they make all kinds of sizes of vans, so people can choose what meets their needs without getting Semi sized.

Kate: thanks for the comparo. Did the V6 feel smooth or coarse? I don't like GM's 3.4l V6, the one in the Montana and Rendezvous I drove.

Rob: that's the Traviq, with a "Q". It's a Opel Astra van rebadged as a Subie.

-juice

bluesubie

Just trying not to talk about plywood here. :-D

I noticed on the HVAC controls on the STi that there is a recirc. button instead of a recirc. lever. I wonder if this is all JDM's.
http://www.subaru.net/events/2001/tokyo/P1010015.JPG
My wife's OB has the button and my OBS has the lever. The button can be pressed quicker but can only be used in certain HVAC settings. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to pull the lever off in my car. The lever can be used in any setting though since it's manual. These controls get a huge workout in our cars driving behind smelly cars in the most densely populated state in the country.

Opinions?

Dennis

kate5000

It was a bit too coarse for my taste. It was not nearly as coarse though as V4 in Pontiac Firebird that I rented a couple years ago.

Oh, and my favorite thing in Malibu was a VERY LINEAR GAS GAUGE. My Loyale had such a guage, but Forester's gauge is not nearly as linear.

paisan

On my trooper the recirc electronic button can be used no matter which other controls are being used. I had a lever on my Rodeo. So long as they work It's all good. The manual ones aren't really manual, they are vacum controlled I think even though it looks like a lever. Generally my cars stay in recirc mode all the time.

-mike

lark6

Kate: welcome back. I was on vacation two weeks ago in the Blue Ridge/Appalachians, all via Forester, and have only been here intermittently since then. The Malibu's cons seem to far outweigh its pros, yet there are people out there who are buying them - they're not all in rental fleets - so they must have something going for them.

I too find the Forester's gas gauge annoying; on top of that I had a sender fail on me in the first 10K miles, replaced under warranty. Minor niggle; I use the trip odo to let me know when to refuel. One thing that's bothering the (expletive of choice here) out of me is a rattle in the steering column that comes and goes when I'm on rough roads. I have 31K on the car and want this addressed before the warranty goes out, but I suspect that no dealer will hear it.

Ed

PS: A Gator, huh? Do you have a tennis visor? :-)

rsholland

Anybody have a chance to log on to that Toyko Motor Show link that I posted? It has some superb images. The best I've seen to date.

Bob

hondafriek

I hate the Power steering among other things in General Motors products, It is way too overboosted makes you think the front wheels are on ice all the time it is also numb feeling on Centre.

We had a Buick Century last year for a couple of days, my wife drove it for all of half an hour, then she would not drive it any more, said she hated the sound of the door handles scraping the ground when she went around corners.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

Kate: gas gauge? Wow, you're detail-oriented.

I use the trip odo on all my cars anwyway, to figure out mpg. The Miata's gauge is so conservative it's ridiculous. It reads empty with 4-5 gallons left!

Bob: I'm short on time today but I'll have a look tomorrow. I went as far as the Blitzen photos and just couldn't bare to continue!

-juice

rsholland

Bookmark that Tokyo site.

Bob

qbrozen

Thanks for the clarification.

Now I'm not so surprised that I kind of like it. I would love to get the Opel Speedster as well. I'll just keep dreaming.

hypov

Ed - that's usually the "tag alongs" attached to the ignition key, at least it is for me.

-Dave

lark6

Dave - I have already eliminated the "tag alongs" theory by removing the ignition key from the ring and inserting it with no others attached.

Ed

ateixeira

OK, my quick impressions:

I'm jealous of all the cool Subies they have available. I could not believe that row of used WRXs at that dealership! The Avignon is a little over done, but that Blitzen, the B4, the Euro, the Forester STi, wow!

The Traviq has that GM "look" throughout the inside. I like the Astra styling on the outside, but it still looks out of place next to those real Subies.

Isuzu Gax is the green giant's car! ;-)

The Skyline isn't pretty. Sad, 'cause it's a fantastic car underneath. Front is droopy and rear looks unfinished.

What is that Stage A? Is that a Nissan? Looks quite spacious and practical.

Nav systems: the one that sprouts up looks neat, but has a tiny screen. The one that plugs in to the dash blocks the HVAC. Both need work.

Notice that water spray button on the STi? I heard the US version will get one too, so it should look the same. It's like a fog light button.

The Blitzen and Euro spec wheels are sweet. I hope we get those eventually.

WX-01 doesn't look any better in these photos. Still OCD with the triangles, looks like a Ford. It's also tiny - I can't imagine that 3rd seat. Look at the photo with the doors open and it's hard to believe there even is a 3rd row. Stretch the wheelbase, Subaru! About a foot, at least.

The RX8 has some neat tricks, but I wish they could have styled it better. The C-pillar really interferes with the design. Perhaps they should have blacked it out, so it didn't look so much like a hatchback. Not pretty.

Citroen C5 = Ford Taurus. The front is identical. Kind of funny from two very different manufacturers.

Love that BMW enclosed bike. Very neat. And as their catalog says very clearly, boxer engines are the best! :-)

-juice

hypov

Ed - I noticed on my OB, which would rattle from time to time, two places that I know of would do that are:
the steering column cover - there's some flex there to cause rattling, or the wires inside knocking against it. Subaru should put some sort of form to deaden the effects of wires knocking against it.
and
that screen that shields the 'meters (whatchacallit).

I stopped looking for where else. Can't drive and seek out rattle both at the same time.

Hope you'll find it. :-)

-Dave

amishra

That site had alot of photos! I'll have to go home now to rest

lark6

Yes, Dave, that seems to be the source of the rattles - either the cover itself or the wiring inside. I only hear it on really rough roads, of which Pennsylvania sadly has plenty. When it gets going good it sounds like a teletype.

I wonder if there's a fix for this - SoA approved or otherwise?

Ed

ateixeira

That's what you get for takin' her to the Pine Barrens trails, Mr. OCD. ;-)

-juice

lark6

Bah - she was doin' that before we went soft-roading.

Ed

rsholland

Mike, here's some info on the Trooper replacement. It's called the Ascender, and will be built on a long-wheelbase version of the TrailBlazer—not the Tahoe.

Bob

http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0111/03/autos-334524.htm

rsholland

According to 4car, a UK auto publication, the concept WX-01 "may" be a hint of the larger platform 7-passenger car that Subaru and GM are working on together. It is based on the GM Epsilon platform (the underpinnings for the new Vauxhall Vectra, Cadillac CTS and Saab 9-3).

In the following link, go to" Toyko Motor Show," then to "Manufacturers," then select "Subaru."

http://www.4car.co.uk/

Bob

rsholland

It looks like the NZ Subarus are getting many if not all the same upgrades that Oz-spec Subies just got. Mostly detail changes, but some are interesting nonetheless. For example, all Imprezas are getting a light for the ignition switch—a topic that was discussed here a while back. I wonder if we're next?

Bob

http://www.subaru.co.nz/news/index.html?id=180

paisan

I read the news. Won't catch me in that thing. POS!

Oh well, looks like I'll have to save my pennies for a TLC. Just an FYI... This could and will likely be the fate of subaru in the next 10-15 years.... GM starts small and works their way up, devouring the companies they stick their hands in. A dark dark day in the Isuzu camp.

-mike

rsholland

so against the Ascender? The TrailBlazer et al have gotten pretty good reviews from what I've seen. In fact the Envoy was just voted "Truck of the Year" by Motor Trend, for whatever that's worth...

Even though—and you well know—I'm no fan of badge-engineering, I would think GM and Isuzu would do their best to make these vehicles as different as possible. IIRC, you seemed to be in favor of the next Trooper being built off the larger Tahoe platform. What's the problem with the TrailBlazer platform?

As for Subaru's fate, obviously we pray your prediction won't come true. Hopefully GM has learned from its past mistakes in regards to its "partners."

Bob

sweet_subie

See the website.........that's impressive esp. when the economy is so bad & all other car compnaies are losing sales

paisan

Well for one, it's going to be a 100% rebadge. The angles of approach and departure of the trailblazer are the worst of any SUV around. I've sat in them and they are horribly clostrophobic, and they have a crappy AWD system. Nothing like the TOD system. I'd take the I6 engine + TOD + Isuzu Interior and Body + Isuzu built @ SIA. Not one built @ the GM plant in Ohio. Nope, no way.

-mike

rsholland

that it will be a 100% rebadge? There's no point to doing that. Don't you think the Isuzu will be differentiated in any way from the TrailBlazer/Envoy?

Bob

paisan

All the articles say it will be a rebadge. Ok, they'll change it a bit, like the bravada. Isuzu isn't even producing it. Its coming directly from the GM plant in Ohio. Oh they'll diferentiate it for sure, they'll throw some tacky molding on it, or different shaped interior knobs, or fabrics, etc. But the heart and soul of it will be crappy american workmanship, and no *real* differentiated features for the Isuzu.

-mike

rsholland

turns out to be just another GM clone, then I agree, there's no point even offering it.

How's that going to impact on the next Rodeo? I thought it was to be based off the TrailBlazer? Do you think the Ascender will be nothing more than a long-wheelbase Rodeo?

Bob

paisan

They will probably make the rodeo based off the S10/S15 pickup that Isuzu just got finished designing for GM. It's supposed to be a 4 door Explorer Sport Trac-like thing. So they'll probably just use that as the next rodeo. Or they'll slap a different body on the Axiom and raise the body mounts on the Axiom and call it the Rodeo. I'm definitely going to be looking Toyota, since they will be offering a 4.0, 5.0 and possibly the 6.6l Duramax (Isuzu) Diesel engines in 03 or 04. Most likely my next SUV will be a TLC or Montero or LR Discovery.

-mike

tincup47

Probably the #1 reason GM is doing this is because of poor sales of the Trooper, not a desire to cheapen the product. There are not enough sales of this vehicle to justify development of a seperate chassis, drivetrain, or body. After the slow sales start of the Axiom, I doubt if there will be any new designs from Isuzu that will not be based heavily on existing GM platforms. If these don't sell, I wouldn't be surprised if Isuzu isn't restructured to handle only the Medium-Large trucks for GM.

ateixeira

At least the Ascender starts with a good platform. GM can make trucks. Should get 3 rows, too. Any news on the engine and AWD system?

I do think Isuzu can meet the demands paisan made (TOD and Isuzu body and interior built @ SIA). I also am not a fan of GM gray-plastic interiors. The Audi TT does not resemble a mexican-built Golf, right?

At least Isuzu had the lead in developing the S-10 platform. You may prefer those.

So, WX-01 is on the new Epsilon platform? I was kind of wondering about that, because it didn't resemble any current Subie. 220hp in the concept, which may hint at an H6 power boost in the near future.

That site had more info on the HM-01. It's Pleo-based, and the engine has 36hp. I like the through-the-road AWD system concept.

-juice

paisan

At least the rest of the world will still get the true trooper. If Isuzu could get a 1/2 decent marketing team, they'd be able to outsell just about any other SUVs, but alas they have dropped the ball. Hopefully we won't see the same happen to SOA in the next 10+ years. (GM has had their hand in the Isuzu pot since the late 80s)

-mike

paisan

The other reason that the trooper can't be sold after 02MY is that it doesn't have enough crumple zones. (It uses the other car as a crumple zone ) and that is why they need to change the platform. Hence outside the US you'll still be able to get the JDM version of the trooper after 02.

I'd still like to see a bigger subie sedan. Doesn't have to be huge, but should be decent size. Also I need to go back and dig up our pool #s for the Brat towing capacity. We should be seeing #s soon on that soon.

-mike

rsholland

If the following link is correct, there may be more to the Impreza Euro-Type concept than what's seen at first glance. Could this be a hint of future "production" updates for the current chassis?

It sounds like all the criticism of the styling of the current Impreza has finally hit home.

Bob

http://www.veh-tech.net/

rsholland

speaking of GM Medium-Heavys... I started this link over in the pickup area this weekend. It's about the upcoming '03 GM Medium-Heavy lineup.

Bob

rsholland "GM's '03 Medium/Heavy trucks (Class IV - VIII)" Nov 4, 2001 8:42am