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Comments
Even CR backed off when Isuzu updated the Trooper, but the look and the name stayed the same, so consumers probably didn't even know it was different.
I wonder if the production HM-01 will get a stretched Legacy platform or the Epsilon. If they get the latter, I hope they let Subaru engineer it, like Isuzu did with the small GM pickups.
-juice
Bob
Bob
-mike
-juice
-mike
Given the bad press from the CR review, it wouldn't be bad timing to start using the Pajero name in the US now, too. Widen the track an inch and change the name, people will forget that article.
-juice
Lutz wants Pontiac to target BMW. Sounds kind of Nutz, but he has the right idea - target ride, handling, and steering and not brute force.
-juice
Build quality would be the only big "if".
Subaru better get with the program. My wife's car is now leaking oil, too. I found the mess when I rotated her tires (no oil on the driveway, oddly enough).
That means we may need something sooner rather than later. Gimme a B4 for the wife, manual, and hurry it up, please. The 2005 SUW is hopelessly far off for us, and the WX-01 doesn't exactly make me want to wait for it.
I'm going to be sentenced to a FWDer again, c'mon Subaru!
-juice
I know you love sandy, but give him to your wife and buy yourself that WRX you are lusting after, as I see it this is a win.win, solution all around.
Cheers Pat.
The trick is getting one equipped the way you want it, and not paying a fortune for it. My guess is that they're more readily available now, so maybe the entry ticket won't be so painful in the wallet.
If anything, you owe it to yourself to take one out on a test drive.
Bob
Let's see, V6, AWD, VSC, moonroof, roof rack, alloys, plus tint and towing, TMVs for $29,752.
That's about our limit, but it still only seats 5 (I'd prefer a 7 seater at that price). It doesn't have heated seats or leather, or a CD changer, or a lot of other little things, but we could live with it.
Also, prices will dip when the Honda MDX arrives. And if I were to buy the Highlander, I'd at least wait to see what Honda brings out. We can afford to be patient.
A VDC has more content and costs less, but she prefers the sedan (about $1k less). The base H6 sedan is $26.5k, and I expect a $750 incentive to appear soon, so that's mighty tempting.
I love the WRX, but I would feel selfish. It also still does not offer a moonroof here. It's also small, and that would make 2/3 of our cars small.
Another option is the Altima. V6 SE plus ABS, heated seats, mats, and moonroof TMVs for $24,569.
A TL TMVs for $28k, and she'd like that. But it's a lot of money for any FWD, regardless of content.
Her best friend bought an Avalon, but I hate the styling and wouldn't let her get that. The Camry, maybe, but it didn't turn her on when she saw it.
Finally, toss in the Odyssey and MPV. Though she resists, those will best meet our future needs.
To be honest, right now we're going to fix the 626, and of course we have the 3rd car as a backup. The 626 has never stranded us, but if I feel it's no longer reliable it has to go.
-juice
The tall wagons, like Highlander etc., disguise the utilitarian platform with appealing SUV proportions, so no wonder they're popular. That's a good trend, and I can't wait to see what Honda brings to this game. It's supposed to be a Tahoe-fighter, much bigger than the MDX.
I would like to see what Subaru brings too, but 2005 is way too far off to get excited.
--Bart
Ken
-mike
-mike
Stephen
* AWD
* stability control
* traction control
* manual tranny
* 3rd row seat
* 200+ hp
* ABS
* heated seats
* good payload, towing, capacity
* moonroof
There are lots of basics, too, like A/C, CD, power everything, keyless entry, but pretty much all the alternatives have those by now.
I actually like the Axiom's in-your-face style. But look at my wish list and 4 things are missing. I'd like get them all, but most likely I'll be giving up just one or two.
I finally dragged to wife to test a minivan. Kia offered a free Shrek video to drive a Sedona, so I used that as bait to get her started (just looking, mind you).
It's actually nicer than you expect. The 3rd seat doesn't fold down, and I absolutely could not get comfy in the front seats, with lumpy lumbar support. That ruled it out for me right there, but the wife actually kind of liked it. She did find it a bit big and hard to park (told you she was going to like the smaller vans).
Price is rock bottom. $23.7k for a loaded model with leather and moonroof, though it does not offer heated seats or stability control, or AWD, or a manual. So it's not on our short list. Still, the engine was torquey, if a bit loud, and ride was good but with lots of lean.
But the point wasn't to sell her on a Kia, it was to lure her into trying a van. So we headed to Herson's Honda. They had one demo, that's it. None on the lot. 3 month wait, full MSRP up front. OK, then, hello to you too, sir!
Very nice interior. Folding seat is so trick that I don't think I could buy a van without it. Tons of room, even with the 3rd seat in place the well it leaves is roomy. Bummer - did not get to drive it because it was past 9pm. Seats were comfy, though. We both gave it a tentative thumbs up.
Even then, it does not have AWD, a moonroof option (big minus), or stability control. No manual, but that's OK, no vans have that. An EX with heated leather is $28,690, so IMO that's a better value than the Yoda, as paisan called it.
Next time we get around to it, I'll put her in an MPV and an Ody back to back, to see which one she likes. We have a long driveway she has to back out of, and she does not like big cars. We'll see how it drives.
The VDC wagon only misses on two points, no manual and no 3rd seat. Problem is, she doesn't like the wagon! Argh! The sedan would have 3 strikes against it, because it has less cargo space.
See my frustration? Almost anything I choose under $30k has 3 strikes or more against it.
-juice
3rd row of seats can be added easily through aftermarket.
MT is a dying breed on any SUV/Wagon/Van
SO it's just the stability control you don't get.
-mike
The Isuzu I'd be most interested to see would be the Trooper replacement.
Oh, did I mention I'd like 20mpg city or better? Picky, aren't I?
-juice
-mike
Stephen
The 3.0l MPV should arrive any day now. I heard this month, we'll see. I'll ask when we take the 626 in to fix the oil leak.
Now, some cars you drive and love so much that your requirements fly out the window. A Legacy with a turbo could be such a car. WRX is close, but the wife is really pushing for more room, and the "she drives the Forester" suggestion was nipped at the bud, as I expected.
-juice
-mike
-juice
I think you'd really like the Axiom, have you driven it yet?
-mike
But it doesn't do anything that the Rodeo and Trooper don't already do for less money and with 5 speeds. 16/20 mpg blows my mileage criteria away, no S/C or T/C, no 3rd row (aftermarket ones would kill any cargo space), no manual trans, more $$.
I'll put her in one just to see what she says, while we're looking at the H6s, but I'd be surprised because she doesn't like bulky vehicles.
-juice
It handles like a car, a sporty one at that, it's got 230hp, 232lbs torque, no need for an S/C or T/C, the 3rd row aftermarket ones wouldn't take any more room away than the 3rd row of the highlander, and it's much cheaper than the highlander. The milage is poor, but anything with that much room, AWD, and 230hp is going to get poor milage.
Hey worth a try to looksy at it. I haven't seen the cream interior, only the basketball colored tan/black interior.
-mike
We need to come together on what type of vehicle we want. She likes sporty sedans, plus car-based SUVs. I want something that does a job different from the other cars in our fleet (small SUV, roadster). That means a roomy 7 seater, something along those lines. IMO there is a lot of overlap from the Forester to the Isuzus (for our purposes, remember we don't go rock hopping).
-juice
And yes the Axiom isn't nearly as boxy as the trooper, but then again no vehicle is!
-mike
The Trooper is it's own shipping crate. If you gave one as a gift, you'd just have to wrap ribbon around it! Scientists actually calibrate their straight-edges with it! ;-)
-juice
Here's a link http://www.subaruwarranty.com/Traviq.htm
Stephen
I think the 2005 SUW may be built on the GM Epsilon platform. At least I think the WX-01 concept was. The Traviq is on a small platform, so I doubt they'll share a chassis.
-juice
The 3rd seat is super-tight. You have to move the 2nd seat far forward to have any leg room at all, never mind actually getting comfortable. I want a livable 3rd seat, and cargo space behind it, if I go that route.
Also, no traction control, no stability control, ABS can be hard to find on them, and gas mileage is below my target, as is horsepower. That's a lot of misses in key categories.
I did like the Grand Vitara I drove at Edmunds Live, so I wouldn't have ruled Suzuki out without looking at it. I do thank you for your suggestion and welcome more of them.
-juice
The following info is from Chuck (tincup 47) who works for Land Rover. He posted this over in the SUV areas.
Some of the content added,
5 Speed auto transmission (with manual mode in both high and low range)
Shift-on-the-move Transfer range selection
Park Distance Control
Heated Rear Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Automatic Tire pressure monitor
Dynamic Stability Control
Enhanced Hill Descent Control
Plus it's 9.4 inches longer, 2.6 inches wider
Of inteest to me is that the new Range Rover has a fully independent suspension, keeps the high and low range—and adds a "shift-on-the-fly" feature between high and low range—which I think is a great idea!
I'm wondering closely related this vehicle is to the BMW X5, since they were developed somewhat together? And, a concern—the ground clearance appears quite low. I'm wondering if there is any ground clearance height adjustment feature?
Chuck—are you out there?
Bob
Full independent? Really? I wonder if they'll use a VC like the Freelander does. The Freelander also doesn't have much ground clearance.
-juice
Also, the new Range Rover looks remarkably like the original Range Rover, in terms of styling. I wonder if those "shark gills" on the front fenders are functioning air scoops?
Bob
-mike
http://www.drive.com.au/
Bob
I like the idea of an adjustable suspension, but I would be concerned about the replacement cost (a la XT6) for those air bladders.
I almost prefer manually adjustable systems, because they are robust.
-juice
Juice, if you can afford a Range Rover, the cost of the air springs is small potatoes. Also air suspension has been on the Range Rover since 93, and is a very robust system.
Doesn't the ATs on the subies have "hill descent control/Grade Logic/etc" I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.
-mike
I wonder how long before we see an IRS in the Land Cruiser?
Bob
-mike