Buying a Vehicle with Cash, Check or Credit Card

24

Comments

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Obviously you have not read the thread in depth. Fraud happens every day. At the bank, they verify funds before handing the money to you. I repeat an earlier challenge to you. You have a $25k car for sale and late on a Saturday night a stranger gives you a check. Do you give him the car?
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    When I was fresh out of school, and shopping for my first car, I tried to dispute the doc fee (which can be upwards of $500 around here). Everytime, I got a canned line that due to state law, the dealer could be sued if they didn't charge everyone the same doc fee. I ended up checking with the state attorney general's office, and was told that the doc fee is a negotiable item, just like every other part of the car deal. I have since noticed, that on the attorney general's website, there is a section on car buying, and it states this exact thing. I have thought about printing it off, and taking it when I buy a car in case I am ever told that line again in the future.

    I don't mind paying a doc fee, if it is reasonable, and if the total amount (car price plus doc fee) are in the range I have in mind, but I hate being lied to about why they "have" to charge me a doc fee.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    The OFAC is the Office of Foreign Assets and Controls. They basically function is to make sure no one is laundering money in attempt to fund terrorist activities.

    When we send your deal to the bank there system automatically bounces you against the watch list. We are set up so that when we pull your equifax bureau it automatically checks you. If we don't do it guess what

    All U.S. persons must comply with OFAC regulations, including all U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens regardless of where they are located, all persons and entities within the United States, all U.S. incorporated entities and their foreign branches. In the cases of certain programs, such as those regarding Cuba and North Korea, all foreign subsidiaries owned or controlled by U.S. companies also must comply. Certain programs also require foreign persons in possession of U.S. origin goods to comply. How much are the fines for violating these regulations? The fines for violations can be substantial. Depending on the program, criminal penalties can include fines ranging from $50,000 to $10,000,000 and imprisonment ranging from 10 to 30 years for willful violations. Depending on the program, civil penalties range from $11,000 to $1,000,000 for each violation.

    I am not going to the big house for 30 years for any one :D

    This site tells you allot about it.
    http://www.treasury.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    And to think that our job did not have pitfalls.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    Obviously, I didn't (sorry :blush: ). Your question is valid, no doubt.

    I think part to blame is instant gratification culture - people want the car now, dealers want the deal now. Nobody wants to wait until next business day. When my dad bought his car (in Poland), he made a money transfer for the agreed amount and and brought the coupon with him. Of course everything took a few days total.

    I say - if they're not is willing to wait - check their credit. If they would rather wait until it clears - two IDs and the check has to be enough. No matter how stupid their reasons are, their credit is their business. They pay cash (or equivalent) so dealer has no business to snoop in their credit.

    As a business I probably may have some kind of insurance against fraud. It probably will have set of stipulation, saying what steps to take before one could make a claim. One of it may be credit check and then you may tell the stranger "it is our insurance that requires that".

    Are you saying there is no electronic verification system for cashier checks? I'm surprised to hear that.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    When we send your deal to the bank there system automatically bounces you against the watch list. We are set up so that when we pull your equinox bureau it automatically checks you. If we don't do it guess what

    Credit check is not necessary. The law does not state "thou shall check a person's credit". Your system is simply set for your convenience to show your "due diligence" in front of officials. There is a difference.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 8,989
    When I was fresh out of school, and shopping for my first car, I tried to dispute the doc fee (which can be upwards of $500 around here). Everytime, I got a canned line that due to state law, the dealer could be sued if they didn't charge everyone the same doc fee. I ended up checking with the state attorney general's office, and was told that the doc fee is a negotiable item, just like every other part of the car deal.

    WHAT ? You’re telling us it ain’t the LAW and we wasted the better part of yesterday learning that it was ?

    Let me guess, the real answer is:
    “It all depends on the state where the car is being purchased” !!! :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Are you saying there is no electronic verification system for cashier checks? I'm surprised to hear that.

    Yes there is. We are set up with tele-check. We can run your check through there system and if the check bounces then they pay it and chase the money, UNLESS we accept a check that is written on a bogus account or is involved in a check scam. Meaning if we did not take due diligence in verifying the customer is who they say there are and are not a con artist, which brings us back to why we want to pull your bureau to see if you are who you say you are.

    Not to mention that this is just another service that we have to pay for that consumers never really think about.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I checked this morning to see how much the fees we pay are when we take a credit card. They are more then I thought

    Diners Club 3.2% (Have not seen one in years)
    Amex 2.7%
    Discover 1.8%
    Visa/MC 1.73%

    So on LR's customer that wanted to put $100K on his card that would have been $2700 fee
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    Let me guess, the real answer is:
    “It all depends on the state where the car is being purchased” !!!


    Yeah, that is my understanding as well.
  • jack47jack47 Member Posts: 312
    I checked this morning to see how much the fees we pay are when we take a credit card.

    As just about all retail transactions today are done by credit card all businesses comprehend those fees in setting their prices.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    Meaning if we did not take due diligence in verifying the customer is who they say there are and are not a con artist, which brings us back to why we want to pull your bureau to see if you are who you say you are.

    Are we talking cashier's check or personal? If it's personal, I see no reason for instant gratification anyway, as it is only an authorization to draw money that may or may not be there (no credit check required - just plain old waiting). If it's cashier's - that your verification system should pick up on a bogus account.

    Things don't add up in your claims, Joel. I'm more and more convinced it's just a plain old CYA and instant gratification. There is really nothing wrong with that as long as everybody involved understands it. You want your car now - we check your credit. Can wait - we don't need to know if you owe $2000 to SEARS. If two IDs is enough proof for the Homeland Security, Driver's license office, bank and many others and you can either wait for funds to clear or have a verification system for instant check there is no need to know where else I spend my money and on what.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    As just about all retail transactions today are done by credit card all businesses comprehend those fees in setting their prices.

    That may be so, but in a supermarket you simply don't know it (nobody shows you invoice for butter). In car sales deals are taken apart to invoice, holdback and Christmas bonus - so then credit card fee becomes a legit part of the cost. If it's too high, consumer may have to cover it in the final product price - and we know what's gonna happen then. "I'd rather pay cash/check".

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I'm more and more convinced it's just a plain old CYA

    Hell ya it is. There is no law until you get in trouble for it then it is enough to close the doors of your business. I never caught in the debate that we were discussing if the law says I can pull your bureau. There is no law that says "we can pull your credit" but there is a law that says if you are on the OFAC watch list and I sell you a car then you can be fined up to $1,000,000 and go to prison for up to 30 years, and our way to check you if your not financing is to pull your bureau.

    How mad would you be if you put a fraud alert in your bureau because your identityty was stolen and some POS was ruining your life and they came to me and used your identity and check book to buy a car and I didn't stop them because I never saw the fraud alert because I did not take the time to pull your bureau and verify your identity?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    How mad would you be if you put a fraud alert in your bureau because your identityty was stolen and some POS was ruining your life and they came to me and used your identity and check book to buy a car and I didn't stop them because I never saw the fraud alert because I did not take the time to pull your bureau and verify your identity?

    Good question. If I had fraud alert and checks already canceled your check verify system would reject it before you got to check my records. If you accepted check without that verification, I'm not liable for it anyway, as the bank has already canceled it. If the guy asks for credit then you check my credit and see fraud alert. If the guy paid cash then my name on the car has no consequence to my finance at point of sale. It might later - but if the ID was marked as stolen and wrong address given I believe vehicle registration should pick that up. Again - convenient yes, necessary no.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    They told me they would subtract the doc fee from the price of the car so go back and get it before they change their mind.

    Sorry Mack, not going back there until they have my car. Put a deposit on it in June and still has not arrrived. It will be serveral weeks still :cry: And they must have mixed up your credit with someone else, or maybe you're a victim of identity theft from having your info out there. :P ;)
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    As just about all retail transactions today are done by credit card all businesses comprehend those fees in setting their prices

    I don't fault dealer for limiting CC amounts at all. Those fees can really eat into margins. Besides, they would have to charge another processing fee to make up for it. ;) Of course I always max the limit and was amazed when one let me put $40K on credit.

    Anyone that has purchased jewelry will know that it's a cash payment dominated business as well. You get discounts of up to 3% for paying by cash.

    Anytime there are low gross margin percentages and large transaction values, payment fees can be very important. The big guys can negotiate fees of lees than 1%.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    I'm more and more convinced it's just a plain old CYA and instant gratification. There is really nothing wrong with that as long as everybody involved understands it. You want your car now - we check your credit.

    Bingo! That's what I was having trouble understanding from them. It's more convenient and standard procedure for them to run a credit report for everything. It's not the law. I'll make sure they are comfortable of being paid as I have have full confidence that the money will be there and payment will be made. If I did let them run the credit, it would be a sea of green.

    In the last year I have received a letter from my CC company and my online broker informing me of information lapses which resulted in exposure of my personal information. But don't worry, nothing happened. Yeah right! I have put fraud watches on my credit and if I lived in a state that allowed me to prevent unauthorized access for a fee, I would. I get so many unsolicited offers of credit that I do not want or need. Am I a bit sensitive about this. Hell yes.

    I probably should have added more context to the question for clarity, but the debate was interesting none the less. But as I said, I think we've beat this to death. Anymore stories?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... I got an email last week from my online broker saying they had exposed databases...

    You're with TD Ameritrade, too, huh? I got a letter in the mail. I'll have to check my junk email account for the email.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    Jewelery is low margin :surprise: ???

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... Not to mention that this is just another service that we have to pay for that consumers never really think about.

    Shouldn't that be covered by those exorbitant document fees?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Dang if we had the doc fees cover everything you all think it should we would have to raise it to about $1000. Everytime we talk about the cost of doing business one of you say

    "Shouldn't that be covered by those exorbitant document fees?"
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    .. Because each inquiry impacts the person's score. Do it once or twice, doesn't matter; do it five or ten times, suddenly 750 score slides down. ...

    Actually, even just ONE inquiry can knock your score down up to 5 points! :surprise: Why get your credit slammed when it's not necessary?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Because at least "I", and hopefully others, HOPE that those insane fees (the Audi dealership here charges $599!!!) covers more than just some lardo behind a desk punching in numbers for preprinted forms!
  • mattgg1mattgg1 Member Posts: 191
    jmonroe -

    I'm not sure why dealers let customers take a car before receiving payment, but it seems to be a relatively common practice.

    I have purchased two cars in the past two years, from different dealers in different states. In both cases, they've let me drive away KNOWING I didn't have the funds in my checking account to cover the check I wrote them for the vehicle.

    On my last purchase, I told them upfront that I keep my cash in a money market account, and it would take a few days to be transferred to my checking account. They said "no problem, we'll just hold the check until next week and you can take the car now."

    When I got the money transferred to my checking account, I learned the bank holds any deposit over $5K for 5 business days to verify the funds. I told the dealer this and they said, "OK, we'll just hold it until the following week"

    As a result, they did not cash my check for a full 12 days after I took delivery of the car. I did fill out a short "five liner" credit app. But they never once verified that I actually had the money to pay for the car.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Depends on what and how you buy, but you are right that it is generally not.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Actually, even just ONE inquiry can knock your score down up to 5 points! Why get your credit slammed when it's not necessary?

    Incorrect, that is a myth. Multiple inquiries from the same industry in a 30 day period count as one inquiry.

    Go to my profile an look under "My Guides" I have an article posted there from Equifax called "Understanding you credit score" It addresses that.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Excuse me it is a 45 day period.

    Note: Inquiry de-duping – For a 45 day period multiple auto inquiries are treated as one and multiple mortgage inquiries are treated as one.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,975
    and our way to check you if your not financing is to pull your bureau.

    I have seen many of these reports and to tell the truth I have yet to see one that has a physical description of the person on it. Which begs the question how do you know the person sitting across the desk from you is the person named on the account?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    Bingo - that's why this talk about preventing ID theft is just crap in this context. It ALL goes back to what ID is presented in the first place.

    And speaking of driving off before paying -

    A year ago when I was picking up a new Mustang GT the finance guy said, "Well, for whatever reason, we haven't got approval on the loan yet," shrugged his shoulders, and off I drove. Seemed strange to me at the time but it's probably not unusual given some other tales told here.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You need to look at page 2 it has the physical description :D

    There is more in your bureau then just how well you pay your bills.

    Besides the obvious the biggest thing I am looking for is a fraud alert and if I am not comfortable I will ask you questions I already know the answer to from info in the bureau. So how long did you live in De moines? Where do you work at?

    BTW the obvious I am looking for as I said earlier is if you have bad credit or a history of bad checks. If you do then I will not deliver the car.

    I actually find it quite humorous when people raise hell about it and bring up the old BS about one inquiry lowering there score 5 points. As I pointed out to one lady late one night who told us on the phone that she has excellent credit, therefore I stayed open 90 minutes past closing time till she got here, she had a 514 beacon, she blamed it on inquiries, Mam its not the 6 inquiries you had this month, its the 2 repossession and the foreclosure that is killing you. She though her credit was still good because the repo's were voluntary.

    If your score dropped 5 points every time you credit is pulled then it would be different from one dealer to the next or one bank to the next. I would like to ring the neck of the chuckle head who started that myth.
  • mako1amako1a VirginiaMember Posts: 1,855
    Thanks, Joel for the redirect.

    This is interesting as I have never inquired about my "score"
    I wonder if next time I look on a dealers lot at the latest shiny new stuff he would tell me how I rate. Or aren't they allowed to divulge findings?

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If you all are that concerned with it then just refuse. it is just like the big stink everyone raises about doc fees, if you don't like them then don't buy the car there.

    What major life altering effect does having your bureau pulled have? I just don't get it.

    Hell all the utility companies pull them, the cable guy, etc and you are not financing with them, you just want $30 worth of water a month. But they want to see if you are worth the risk.

    Thats what I am doing, are you worth the risk to let you take our $35K car off the lot on Saturday night with nothing but a check that I can't cash till Monday. I doubt you would run a business any different.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    They laws changed a few years ago where the dealer can now discuss you credit with you and tell you the score. Only after getting a signed Credit App from you. As a matter of fact I think in California you have to sign something stating the dealer told you what your score was.
  • fordfoolfordfool Western New YorkMember Posts: 240
    The Fair Credit Reporting Act mandates that anyone may receive a free annual copy of his or her credit report. You may request free reports from Trans-Union, Equifax, and Experian. The reports are free but they may charge for a FICO score.

    https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

    Because the three reports contain essentially the same information, you may want to query one of the big three every four months. Because joint accounts (if you are married) contain the same information, you may query two of the agencies every four months: one under your name and another under your wife's name.

    Almost all reports contain some faulty information: closed accounts listed as open, open accounts that don't exist, typos, etc. Simply request that the report be corrected.

    MIB, Inc. collects information regarding life and health insurance. Call 866-692-6901 for a free report.

    C.L.U.E. collects information about your driving record, automobile claims and property insurance. Call 866-312-8076 for a Personal Property Report and an Auto Report or perhaps your auto agent will supply a copy.

    If you have been an identity theft victim, both ChexSystems (800-428-9623) and SCAN Consumer Reports (800-262-7771) collect information regarding fraudulent banking activity.

    Be prepared to supply personal information (SSN, make of car, etc) to prove your identity.

    Big Brother is watching you very closely. :shades:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Simply request that the report be corrected.


    Thats funny. Kind of like saying, Simply tell the dealer you want $20K off sticker :D

    There is nothing simple about it. It takes due dilligence on the part of the consumer to get a bureau corrected.

    They can put neg in your bureau with the click of a button but it takes an act of congress to get it removed.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    No it doesn't. Several years ago I had to have my credit report corrected. All it takes is a letter to the bureaus disputing the erroneous info. They'll start an investigation and report their findings. During the investigation, IIRC, the erroneous info is not visible to creditors or it's flagged as under investigation. If it's wrong, which in my case it was, they remove it. Then sit back and watch your score sore and your interest rates fall. Back then, I had no idea having good credit could be so enjoyable and practically life altering! :) It feels good to slide a loan application across the table and have the loan officer come back with a favorable rate. Too bad stealerships will still bump your rate no matter how good your credit is. :mad: :cry:
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Too bad stealerships will still bump your rate no matter how good your credit is.

    Can't you just ask what the buy rate is? I admit I have no expereince in financing at a dealer, but I did consider a lease on a vehicle that had heavy lease only incentives. In this case, I asked what the mf was and if it was the buy rate. They quickly admitted the mf was marked up, but dropped it to the buy rate in discussions.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    What major life altering effect does having your bureau pulled have? I just don't get it.

    It's not, but why do it if you don't need to? (To avoid starting the debate again, just assume that satifactory assurance of payment is provided by other means) :shades:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Can't you just ask what the buy rate is? ...

    Yeah, if you're leasing. MF means nothing on a purchase.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Well maybe Joel can answer this one. Are there laws that say the buy rate or any mark up on the finance rate have to be disclosed if the customer asks?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    You know, when you use a term like "stealership" you lose a lot of your audience here.

    If you don't like a store, don't shop there!

    If you don't like the rate a dealer offers you, get your own financing or better yet, pay cash!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I love these people who don't worry about paying their debts UNTIL, they get declined for a loan.

    Then they will go pay the pizza guy for the bounced check and pay off the department store that charged them off.

    Once this has been done, they think everything should be just fine on their credit report!

    Doesn't work that way!
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Too bad stealerships ...

    Let's dispense with the insults.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    this is why my dealership doesn't take credit cards as a form of payment for a car. Also, i have been told in alabama that if you put a car on a credit card it could be a form of fraud, cause then the credit card company would have a right to the title of that car until the amount is paid off.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "Actually, even just ONE inquiry can knock your score down up to 5 points"

    MYTH! if that one inquiry is followed by 20 more in the next week, then maybe....
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "I'm not sure why dealers let customers take a car before receiving payment, but it seems to be a relatively common practice.

    I have purchased two cars in the past two years, from different dealers in different states. In both cases, they've let me drive away KNOWING I didn't have the funds in my checking account to cover the check I wrote them for the vehicle."

    because the dealer has a way to verify your bank account, not to mention they have your address so they can find you if they need to repo the car.

    Even when you finance the car, the dealer lets you take it without the car being paid for. It takes a while before the bank will pay on the contract for the loan. Most everything in this business is done in good faith.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "I have seen many of these reports and to tell the truth I have yet to see one that has a physical description of the person on it. Which begs the question how do you know the person sitting across the desk from you is the person named on the account? "

    well, if they did steal a persons identity, then they would have to register the car to that person, and the title would go to the victim of the identity theft, thus doing the thief almost no good.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "Too bad stealerships will still bump your rate no matter how good your credit is"

    yeah, i can't believe we, as a business, are out to actually make money!!!!
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "Can't you just ask what the buy rate is?"

    you sure can, but it doesn't mean you will get the truthfull answer or that some customers would believe it. Its just like invoices, you can show them to everyone, but every now and then you get a customer who says, i know a friend of a friend's cousin who used to make up those invoices so they aren't real anyway.
This discussion has been closed.