Jeep Liberty Driveline

tidester

We're consolidating several discussions relating to the driveline into a single topic which includes everything in the drivetrain after the engine and transmission.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

scheck

I keep hearing a noise that seems to be coming from the rear door handle, latch area. It happens whenever I hit a bump where the rear tires are not exactly on the same level. Normal cracks in the road are not a problem. I've fiddled with the striker and stabilizer with no luck. Door seems solidly in place when closed. Nothing loose underneath the rear end. Recall completed on window mechanism. Metal stress?

aswain

I was parked on the street and had gone inside for about 20 minutes. When I came out, my Jeep had just rolled about 50 feet and hit a construction truck. Punctured the grill, radiator and A/C system --- to the tune of $2,500. Weird thing was that the accident had just happened --- after the Jeep had been parked for 18-20 minutes. I've been driving manuals for 25 years and never had anything like that happen. A friend said she vaguely remembers a problem with Cherokees popping out of gear. Anyone know anything about Libertys?

badness

sorry too hear about your mishap,but didn't you put your E-brake on,I always put it on no matter what,my dad always told me not to trust just putting it in 1st gear.,it could pop out so he made me never forget after seeing a good friend of the familys car get banged up wores then yours.

so head the advice,use the E-brake thats why it thier and to save your life also.

I glad you didn't get hurt.

robbusch

I have an 02 Liberty which developed the same problem. I took it to a mechanic who looked into the back with a camera and found that a spotweld on the spare tire assembely went bad. I got some spray foam from Home Depot and sprayed into the back and it dampened the sound. This may be your problem.

himmad

:lemon: :mad: Jeep Liberty owners beware! As I was pulling out at a speed of about 20 mph with my 2003 Liberty (35,757 miles) I felt a jolting bang from the front end and moved off to the side of the street. As I attempted to move the vehicle a few more feet, suddenly the left front ball joints broke and the axle fell to the asphalt. It was quite traumatic to say the least! I called roadside assistance and the driver said I was lucky to be alive. I had just been traveling on a high speed road and had the ball joints failed ten minutes before, little doubt a roll over would have occurred. After a three hour experience trying to get the vehicle on a flat bed truck, I got home at two in the morning. What really disturbed me as I looked back through the service records of the vehicle the next morning was that on June 15, 2004 (mileage 18,237) the ball joints were replaced as a recall on 2002/03 models. I have called Chrysler/Jeep four times and their lack of concern is appalling. We have owned Jeep vehicles since 1994 and have always been pleased with the performance. Chrysler could have cared less about what had occurred. They said they would "note the incident" and were not the slightest bit concerned how this affected our family. They were not interested in hearing the details of what had happened nor did they acknowedge the fact that this information could possibly prevent disaster for someone else. When I wished to speak to someone at Chrysler about buying back this vehicle (we owed $10,500) they said it was only their policy to fix and return it. I said it was my policy not to drive it again since I had relied on the competency of Chrysler twice and they failed both times. Catastrophic failure of ball joints is hardly the same as a problem with the air conditioner. My wife and daughter would not even think of driving this vehicle again, let alone at high speeds. When I asked if they would like members of their family driving this vehicle, there was no reply. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I spoke to one representative for at least twenty minutes and was completely stonewalled. She said she could not refer this call, and said it was company policy to terminate this call. Can you imagine! I am a very patient person and I was completely overwhelmed by Chrysler's disregard for customer concerns. Obviously, profit, not safety is the bottom line. As long as there was not a catastrophic accident, they could care less.
I urge all Liberty owners (especially 2002/03) to have your vehicles checked, even if you have had the ball joint lower control recall done. I had an appointment to have grating noises and rough steering checked and this incident occurred three days before the appointment. Don't wait! If enough Liberty owners voice their concern, maybe Chrysler will listen, especially if it affects their bottom line. Perhaps we could change slightly the famous words of Patrick Henry to "Give me a Liberty and give me death." Perhaps it was an isolated incident, but I would not like to see anyone go through this trauma. The local dealer was very helpful, buying back the vehicle for the buy out price, saying they would certify it as road worthy. But my Liberty days are over and I strongly encourage you to have your vehicle competently checked. The bottom line is people, not profit. That is my concern. :sick:

stever

The NHTSA has a link where you can file a complaint about a vehicle. Since there was already a recall for this problem they may be more interested than usual in your situation.

I just glanced through the most recent consumer complaints at the NHTSA and someone reported earlier this month that their 03's ball joints failed for the second time. That consumer also reported front end noise before the failure.

Steve, Host

himmad

Thank you for your input on the ball joint defect w/ the Liberty. I will definitely forward my comments to the NHTSA for their information and hopefully further investigation into this serious safety issue.
Him Mad

renegader

I have similar experience with Chrysler's disregard for customer concerns. I drive 2002 CRD Liberty 60.000 miles and I have third set of ball joints. One set was changed on recall, the second set had to be changed (and payed) after 12.000 miles (DC said I taxed my Jeep driving it offroad!!! - I did not at that time), third one is ok so far. But I let it check every 6000 miles.

kblair

i own a 2005 jeep liberty and i also had a ball joint break yesterday! thank god that we were not travelling at a high rate of speed when it decided to go. i have a long commute to work every day...all highway and am concerned of my safety and my family's safety. it is a the dealership that we purchased it from at this very moment. i did receive concern from the gal i spoke to at chrystler, but the service tech was not appropriate in my opinion! i hope that they will correct this without a fight!

theringside

Is it a loud dull clunking noise like a jack just slipped out from under the car when you hit a bump? I have that problem and it used to be loud, it's a lot softer now that they have replaced faulty axle parts and tightened some bolts that were loose back there.

In addition My 03' liberty transmission overheated at 3,000 mi so they took it apart. they determined that the whole thing needed rebuilding and replaced it with a new trans. I'm at 55,000. miles now and the same thing is happening again. :mad:

sparky17

I am getting a loud squawing, groaning sound coming from underneath my 2004 Jeep Liberty. It does it at slow speeds when turning or applying and releasing the brake. I have 53000 miles on it and recently did have the transmission flushed and new fluid added. It was doing this prior to taking it in to have this done. It doesn't do it all the time. Took it into the shop again today and mechanic drove it around and of course it didn't do it. Any ideas what this could be? Seems fine at highway speeds.

Thanks,
Ken

frankc55

Try lubing the sway bar bushings

jeep7

I back out of the driveway and drive for a block and then take a left and drive for a 1/2 block take a right and approximately 20-30 feet a popping noise is heard from the rear underneath of the vehicle. The transmission is cold and driving around 20-25 mph and the noise seems to come from the rear-end or transmission. It maybe when the vehicle is shifting gears but have taken it to the dealer about 6 times and they cannot duplicate the problem. Any ideas?

lcarter785

I have the same type of problem, see message 2013, I have taken the car back to the dealer twice and tomorrow will be the third time. Dealer seem to want to blow off the problem. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to be on some mountain top when the vehicle breaks down. Does any one know how to research this problem to see if the jeep liberty has a history of this problem and what the cause is. I have seem several message about the popping sound on this forum along. Is there a way to contact Jeep, other than some public relation guy that could help with the problem.

cross4

I own a 2002 Jeep Liberty. The ball joint recall repair was done. Yesterday while in a parking space I was backing out, heard a loud noise. I got out to check around my vehicle. Nothing. I continued to back out and then my whole right front dropped. My upper and lower bearings need replacing. I need a whole new cv Right front axle and new front right tire totaling over $2300. Needless to say thank God I was not on the highway because I could have been killed or seriously injured. I now am in contact with Jeep and it is under investigation. I think I will also be afraid to drive it once repaired. I can't believe it and encourage other owners to beware for their safety.

renegader

As my own experience, the front ball joints are the most critical part of KJ drivetrain. They last me every 30k miles, I have now 3rd pair of lower ones and now I´m waiting for change of 2nd pair of upper. My KJ has 70.000 miles. To be complete, need to say I lifted 2,5 inch. I let check them every 6k. Life is worth it.

butchoy

I had the same issue with my lower ball joints failing on my 2003 Liberty (which was not on recall list).

Click here to see my pictures:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xl_guru/album?.dir=/254b&.src=ph&.tok=phr3DpEB4UIe- LqCU

Luckily, this happened in a parking lot and not on a busy highway. According to the NHTSA, over 40 incidents have been logged. Chrysler did pay for the damage but I think they really need to investigate this issue further.

If you hear grinding noises when turning your steering wheel or if you hear creaking noises in your front suspension you should get your ball joints checked out immediately!

tidester

An even better place to post your pictures is in

Drive on over!

tidester, host

butchoy

Thanks tidester,

Another link to picutures of my Liberty ball joint failure:

http://www.carspace.com/butchoy/?50@@.59a278bf

Also, a link to NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/ComplaintSearch.cfm

Just click on the "Search Selected Type" button to start.

renegader

I had similar symptoms with worn out universal joint in rear driveshaft. You came home, horrible sounds, next day, when vehicle is cold you don´t hear anything. Maybe you feel light vibrations of drivetrain. How many miles do you have on?

cetyl

Last week my left front lower ball joint gave way without warning. No personel injury but my kids in the back were scared enough to now refuse to ride in my jeep. The rim split, tire blew, and control was quite difficult. Luckily I was at less than 30 mph. Who knows what would have happened at a higher speed. This Liberty has 34k miles which are 100% easy highway miles. I informed two friends who had similar early 2003 Liberty's of my concerns. Both had their ball joints checked and both required bilateral replacements. Sounds like a dangerous problem.

bgbstrd

To anyone out there with Jeep Liberty's with a rear end noise that the dealer has a hard time duplicating: there is a joint, kind of like a ball joint, on top of the rear diff. This thing makes noises at times and the noises can be extremely difficult to duplicate. If the tech cannot duplicate the noise ask to drive them around so you can dulplicate it. Most dealership technicians would rather take a few minutes and go for a ride than have a pissed customer bad mouthing his work.

While you're at the dealer, trade in your KJ on something, anything, else. Between Liberty balljoints, power steering racks, leaks, and noises they are a vehicle I would never put someone I care about in.

farout

butchboy:WOW!IF ANYONE HAS A REASON FOR dcx TO PAY FOR REPAIRS YOU SURE DO! I had a 2002 Dodge Dakota that had 4 sets of lower and upper ball joints replaced in 92,000 miles. But nothing happened except a loud pounding noise while on my dirt road. Thanks for sharing these pictures.

Farout

rhino6

AMEN!!! I would love to see every liberty owner drive their liberty to the dealer and run away.

tacojeff

This just in..another 800,000 Libertys recalled due to a potential failure in the front
balljoint. Nice..... :lemon:

stever

Recalls happen. Not too encouraging that the ball joints were recalled once before for the '02-'03 models though. Here's a story about it.

Jeep Recalls 2002-2006 Liberty SUV (Washington Post)

ladybug8

If you call Jeep and give them the last 8 digits of your VIn they can tell you if you are included in the recall.
The number is 800-853-1403.

ree691

I have a 2004 Liberty with 50k and just had new tires put on. Took it in for a front end alignment and found out the balljoints were shot. :sick:

rvangorp

My 2003 Liberty recently started having a noise like running over a rumble strip when I start into a turn from a standing stop. I can get a similar noise if turn the steering wheel left or right to the stop and drive slowly in a circle on a hard surface. I have the limited slip differential. I've got an appointment with the Jeep service department next but I wanted to know what you all thought. I have 68,000 miles on it and the drive train warranty runs out soon. Thanks

cm1js

Just bought my daughter a 2002 liberty. It has the same noise. Jeep dealer in branson thought without looking it may be the clutches in rear end as they are limited slip. clutches could be from $400 to $900. Mine sounds like a metal grinding sound also when turning left or right slowly like turning into a drive way under light load. I was a auto tech for 32 years but never heard anything quite like this. Mine has 67000 miles. Didn't know how much warranty is on the jeeps but mine has probably expired due to year. Jerry Sutton

rvangorp

Jerry, the dealer changed the lube in the rear end and put in the required friction modifier additive. The chattering noise I heard was eliminated. I wouldn't have described it like metal grinding as you do. My warranty is a 7/70 on the drive train but I think it was unique to the 2003. The lube change wasn't covered on the warranty. I would get into a dealer before the 70K mark just in case it does have the 7/70 coverage.

Richard

jeeplgirl

This is just wonderful. I just reveived my second recall on my 2002 jeep liberty lower ball joints. Judging by what i have read in this forum im guessing these are just as good as the first recalled set i got and i do mean that sarcastically.

jayrider

The back order status on these parts must be more local than national. Hadn't received my notice on my 03 but called my dealer---not the one I bought from- he checked to see if my Liberty was involved--it was. Brought it in the next day and had the work done.

siberia

Not responding to anyone in particular.

The design of the Liberty front suspension is insane. You all need to understand why. Rather than support the vehicle by a ball joint that is being pushed into a socket the vehicle is supported by a ball joint that is being pulled out of the socket. I doubt that Jeep is the first to use this configuration but Jeep should have seen the stupidity of the idea and never used it. I will write more on this later when I have more time. :sick:

siberia

From:

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-2005.html

An engineer wrote, “The [ball joint] specifications were changed, the durability cycles were changed, as well as the loading factors, all downwards from standard JTE specs. This was to follow a directive to reduce cost of SUV parts, because, as so many people have noted here, SUV's aren't used offroad generally. The point is, the joints have a full lifetime as designed and predicted. The issue is not with the parts being poorly made, the issue is the wrong spec was used.”

This seems to have originated by an argument between the Executive Engineer (just below VP of Engineering) of Vehicle Development (who was an old Jeep guy) and Financial (which had the backing of Bob Eaton). The parts meet the specification, but the specification was changed to save money - as with Neon head gaskets, AC, and exhaust donuts.

Apparently the ball joints are not strong enough for on road use much less off road use. :confuse:

siberia

If you cannot get your Libertys in for the ball joint recall at least get your ball joints inspected. The lower right ball joint on my ’05 CRD is at the limit of vertical play (1.5 mm). The vehicle has not seen much bad weather and has been driven easy for most if its 28k miles.

Our short term solution is to park the CRD until the recall work can be done. It will be used for short low speed errands around town and will not see any highway use until after it goes to the dealership for repair.

A half clunk half thud has developed in the right front under certain conditions. When I pull out briskly from a side road and turn left onto a highway there is a pronounced thud in the right front on perfectly smooth road right as I start to straighten the wheel.

I believe the thud is cause by what is called "stick-slip". Stick-slip is what happens when the ball in the ball joint sticks against the bearing material and slips loose suddenly with a thud that is transmitted through the suspension. If you are experiencing vagueness or numbness in your on-center steering going down the highway the ball joints may be sticking or not moving freely.

I think the problem with the ball joints can be overcome, but not by replacing the stock ball joints with more of the same. I plan on sticking with this vehicle because I like it and it has a unique and rare combination of capabilities. But the ball joint issue has to be resolved.

siberia

I installed Moog "Problem Solver" ball joints rather than wait for the recall to be done. They are better constructed and can be greased. However, there is not enough space in the installation area for the ball joint to be made any bigger - just stronger and probably still inadequate in the long run. I filled the new joints with synthetic grease and the steering is now quite light and precise going down the highway.

http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/library.aspx

The tie-rod ends and upper and lower ball joint studs are easily removed using an off-the-shelf pitman arm puller. But you will need a good hydraulic press or ball joint press to remove and install the new joints.

siberia

Continuing with the monolog, I have read that the reason Liberty ball joints are failing is because heat from the disk brakes is damaging the ball joint seals. Supposedly, damaged seals allow contaminants (water, salt and/or dirt) to gain access to the ball joint causing corrosion and premature failure. Little heat shields were installed to protect the ball joints from heat from the disks.

This scenario is absolutely untrue in the case of my Liberty. At 28k miles the grease seals were in perfect condition and the ball joints still contained plenty of grease that if contaminated was contaminated internally by excessive wear. The measurement was simply out of tolerance due to excessive wear and would have eventually dropped me on the pavement as has happened to others.

tired_old_dave

Because you've discovered the truth and now understand my old cadillac posts and for other reasons(e.g. dcx the first to squeeze the suppliers for cheap parts), I am responding. Continue the monologue. I try to check here (and lost about darby's motor)-hopefully some day to see justice done.

Is your clunk the passenger side motor mount? Only one post of a lbj failing at the end of a highway ramp-usually they fail coming to a stop with the wheel turned.

It was interesting to read that honda got the two converters, I once mentioned, into a single unit in their new diesel. Maybe they will use the ac idea - as long as they can keep the oil out of the intake.

siberia

Is your clunk the passenger side motor mount?

No, my CRD had that clunk some time ago and I tightened the motor mounts. The new clunk/thud is apparently gone now that new ball joints are installed.

darlross

I am experiencing the noise on the rear of my 2003 jeep and have been intermitently for over a month. The dealer told me it was the tires, so I got new tires in the rear. The problem seemed to go away for a few days but now it's back. Did the tech fix your noise and did it cost you anything?

darlross

My 2003 liberty is doing exactly the same thing and it's driving me crazy. I got new rear tires cause they were the original, but I only 42,000 miles so I left the front ones. Did you get this resolved yet? Is it covered under the 7/70 warranty? Thanks for any info you can provide.

podunk503

speaking of the ball joint recall, we recently took ours in to get new balljoints fina and dandy. but, before we had that done i asked do balljoints have anything to do with steering? are there signs that your balljoints are bad through the steering wheel? his answer was no. reading some of these posts it seems as though he is incorrect. after having the balljoints replaced we still have kind of like an intermittent clunking in our steering as if the suspension parts are not working well together. what do you think? thank you.

darlross

After experiencing a strange vibration in the rear of the jeep the dealer took it for a test drive with me and said he couldn't tell if it was the transmission or the engine. So he did a kind of brake test, I don't know why and then took it for another test drive with another mechanic. When he returned he said he thought it was the transmission and I should bring it in the following monday, this was a Friday afternoon. He said I could drive it and if it did the skipping thing to either accelerate or let off the gas. I live 2 miles from the dealer and the transmission failed on the way home, had to have it towed back to the dealer. They had to replace the fan and a converter and some other stuff. It only has 43,000 miles so it was covered under the 7/70 warranty and I had to pay $100 deductible and rent a car for a week.

farout

Unless you misunderstood, the ball joints most certainly do have something to do with the steering. You need to go to a 5Star dealer, even Dodge can service your Jeep. Someone has spoofed you royally,

Farout

siberia

Farout is absolutely right, Podunk503.

However, it is possible for the type of ball joints that are installed on the Liberty to be out of tolerance and not feel much of anything on the steering. The reverse is also true. It is possible for this ball joint to be in tolerance and dry producing sticking an clunking. I had a clunk that went away after I replaced my ball joints. Another source of clunk is loose engine mounts - not much of a problem and easy to cure - and, though not related to steering, can occur when steering.

Your post, Podunk, leads me to the conclusion that there is either something else wrong with your steering or the ball joints were not actually replaced. Is it possible the dealer measured the play in the ball joints and they were within spec so they just signed off on them as replaced? I sure hope not.

This makes me think that anyone getting ball joints replaced under recall should take a good look at their old joints to make sure that nice clean new parts are there after the work is done. I so want to be wrong on this one.

northerner2

I own a 2002 Jeep Liberty (115 000 @ km), had the front end lower ball joints replaced last June(109 000@ km), before the recall, at my expense. Yesterday the dealership re-replaced the lower ball joints again due to the recall. Asked them to have a quick look as there is a clunking noise in the front end. Apparently after hours of "on the hoist", "off the hoist" and my $100 bucks later, no resolution but only suspect of the "upper ball joints" and a quote of $750 CDN for replacement? Is it possible that the recalled lower balljoints damaged my "upper ball joints" leaving me with a clunking noise?

jezzabell

I own a 2003 liberty and am dealing with steering issues, when I turn corners it feels like my power steering is going out. There is no noise related to this and it doesn't matter if the car is warm or cold. Could the recall on ball joints be the problem??????? I know the recall facts said loss of steering but to me that could mean a few different things.

siberia

Hi Jezzabell,

I'm guessing that you have around 45k miles on your 2003 Libby. The answer to your question is maybe yes. My steering improved after my ball joints were replaced. If your Libby is steering hard because the ball joints are starting to fail, it is very important that you get them replaced or at least checked immediately. Complete ball joint failure on a Liberty is very dangerous!

jezzabell

thanks for the input, I actually brought it in to the dealership today, they said the ball joints were fine so they couldn't replace them yet because they have a waiting list, but offered to change my power steering pump for $500 dollars, the part is under $150 so my husband will do it himself. We will see if that is really the problem or if they are scammers, no offense if you are a mechanic, but we all know how it goes.