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Doesn't this interval so exceed the conventional oil change intervals as to be comparing apples and oranges?
Opinions?
Currently, we have the Valvoline All-Climate 5w20 meeting the SL specification. More are to follow soon. If you have any other technical questions, please feel free to call us at 1-800-354-8957.
This means to me that the 5W-30 would not be a recommended oil until they meet the new specification, speaking conservatively.
But it's not necessary. Unless you have a sludgy engine, you should be able to change the conventional according to your SEVERE schedule. High temperatures like you have are one of the conditions listed for severe driving in my owners manuals.
Obviously maintain your oil levels near the full position.
The PAO-based synths may or may not be superior to dinos depending upon the additive packages, volatility properties, catalysation method of the PAO, etc. Since most oil manufacturers don't publicize their manufacturing processes or additive contents, it may be a guessing game.
The base issue comes down to - what do you want from your oil? If you just want your vehicle to last 100K miles, any oil will do, and drain intervals are not critical. However, if you want an oil that will withstand high RPM's and heat, or you are trying to maximize oil life for fleet service, or you want to be as enviro-friendly as possible, or you want to extend drain intervals in any of the above situations, then your choice must be made carefully.
With weaker oxidation resistance and lower pour/flash points, the base stock oils are not going to meet extended drain or high-temp situations. Additionally, shorter drain intervals and sludge potential of dinos creates an adverse environmental impact. As many quality synths have extended anti-wear additives and improved boundary lubrication, the potential for improved performance is an added benefit.
With the impending introduction of ceramic engines, even greater performing polymers than today's synthetics are developing. With all the advances in macromolecular chemistry, it's a wonder to me that dino juice is still drilled, refined, and purchased.
I'm not sure how you derive that the gap is narrowing between dino and synth concerning lubrication properties. Synth has always had superior boundary lubrication properties, and supports a better base for additive packages.
Synths still pour more freely in colder temps at startup, and don't burn off at higher temps. I'm not sure I understand the problem you referred to in motorcycle engines. Why does this only affect synths?
As the grades toughen, the weaker lubricants will fall out. Thus, more synthetic all around. I find it quite interesting that as the grades have matured, the API recommended drain intervals have lengthened as well. The SG interval was doubled over that of SF. Yet, we still cling to the short interval mindset.
One website states that both Kawasaki and Yamaha do not recommend using any SH or SJ automotive oils, and only SG will keep within warranty. Another site says SJ is fine as long as it is not Energy Conserving (EC) rated. Most seem to think it is only related to wet-clutch systems, and is not a matter of drain interval, but should not be used at all.
I would think the easy solution would be to use Amsoil motorcycle oil if you want the SJ level of protection without the problems. From their website:
"AMSOIL Synthetic High Performance 10W-40 Motorcycle Engine Oil is specially formulated to provide tough lubricating protection in the most demanding operations. It is recommended for use in all four-cycle motorcycle and ATV engines, including those with wet clutch systems requiring API CD, SG-CG or SH-CD oils."
That's what I'll assume, and go look.
Currently I am using Lubrimatic Motorcycle Oil in 10W-40. This is marketed by Stant Corporation and can be purchased by mail or over the Internet.
Did you find the "folklore" of motorcycle oil as interesting and frustrating as I? Wow again. It appears that SG was the last designation that was "good" for unitized motorcycle engines.
I just switched from Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower to Redline synthetic oil but I haven't seen any difference ... yet. Mileage has been outstanding since the really warm (85F+) weather set in. I've had 3 tankfuls in a row that were 43mpg or higher with one reaching 46+! and this is combination traffic ... freeway cruising along with stop-n-go.
It was my understanding that SJ oils were no longer recommended for motorcycles where the transmission and engine shared a sump because of the lower levels of ZDDP (Zinc Phosphate). Yes, some manufacturers would void your warranty if you used a regular automotive SJ motor oil. Along with Amsoil and some others like Golden Spectro and Motul, Redline is recommended for motorcycle wet clutches.
Have you noticed the new packaging being used by the various automotive motor oil marketers? They are either touting that their newly reformulated oils provide better mileage, meet the newer "SL" standards or offer "iso syn" technology. It seems to me that ALL the oil companies are using more and more hydrocracked group II mineral stocks in their 'normal' formulations.
The line between regular dead-dino and synthetic blurs even further.
--- Bror Jace
There is also supposed to be less evaporative loss, but I found it interesting that one source mentioned that the new engines designed for SL would run cooler anyway. Hmmm... are the oil companies hyping this up to get that extra $1-2 per case?
I personally think you would do fine, but if you think your engine has accumulated a lot of sludge from the dino oil, use a blend and change more often before going full synth.
Oh, I did use Pure One oil filters.
Do you have any thoughts on the AC-Delco Duraguard? Is the ST6607 built to Walmart specs?
Thanks again.
I went and bought 2 quarts of Mobil 1 10w30 and a PureOne oil filter and will bring these to the service place this afternoon. I want to start out with mixing 2 quarts of Mobil1 with about 3 quarts of the service shop's Kendall 10w30 dino oil.
Do you guys see any problems with mixing different BRANDS of oil as long as both are 10w30?
and...is pouring the mobil 1 in first, then pouring in the dino oil after that.... is this ok?
or do i have to mix them before putting it in?? i'm letting the service people do it..and i'm sure they'll just throw in the 2 quarts of mobil one and then pump in their regular oil thru that overhead pump.... do u guys see any problems with this? thanks for your insights..i'm planning to get this done this afternoon...
Again, so far, I have not seen any ill effects.
The additive packages in the two oils may not mix too well if they are different brands. It might be better to mix regular Mobil 10w-30 with Mobil-1 10w-30. As everything is SJ/SL oil these days though, I don't think it would be any problem at all.
Why not use the Mobil-1 blend? Did you want a higher percentage of synth?
I have the AC Delco PF2057 that you mentioned, and I will be trying it on one of the two engines.
This will be the first time to use synthetic, and it's dawned on me that I've run any number of cars out to the 160K mark, and (with the exception of a 94 Caravan which is now sitting in my driveway with a busted transmission, but also has the dreaded Mitsubishi 3.0 valve guide smoking), none of my cars has bit the big one because of engine problems. It was always something else. About six months ago I bought an 87 Chevy Nova from my mother-in-law. Car had been abused (by former owners, not her she drove 300 miles a year), but the engine drove out OK, even with 150K on the clock. Automatic transaxle went on it (hate automatics to me they're the weakest link).
So, why treat the engine to an expensive oil change that will ensure it's hitting the 300K mark if the rest of the car goes byebye at 150?
Isn't most oil so much better than ten years ago that it's overkill?
Additionally, the engine is lubricated better in colder winter days, in traffic jams, etc - but this is practically for free.
using syn lets the acid build up to higher levels.
-- Bror Jace
I was fully into the synthetic thing for many years, and one day realized that I was not extending my ownership of the vehicles, and I have never been one to "blow engines" anyway. I saw that the second owner of my vehicles was getting the best of my effort (not that that is bad). I then considered how the makers and distributors of so many of the syns were keeping vital information a secret while making unsubstantiated claims, and I questioned whether I could afford to simply trust them and make myself an ignorant "true believer." Please note that several have drastically changed their formulations-- seemingly in response to big problems associated with their early formulas. I found it quite easy to then return to refined crude at under a buck a quart on sale at today's prices. Can anyone fault Shell or Texaco or Valvoline (etc.) with scientific, irrefutable evidence?
I am a user of synthetic and doubt that claim.
And what would that 2% to 4% increase even net you in savings.
If fuel is $1.50 per gallon and your car gets 28mpg with dyno oil the savings would still be very small.
If you do the math you will save $5.25 with a 2% increase in fuel mileage if you go 5,000 miles between oil changes. A 4% increase in fuel mileage will net you $10.30. This hardly pays for the extra cost of that $4.30 synthetic oil.
Don't use synthetic if you don't need to. I use it in one vehicle that is turbocharged and in my other vehicle due to towing dirt bikes. Otherwise, I would stick with dyno.
As usual, just my opinion!
The price would be identical and the wear on the oil would probably be the same. The tipping point would be that you'd get two additonal filters. Of course you could go to changing filters at mid change.