Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

tboner1965

Here is the "Famous" Oil filter study. Choose wisely.

http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

Cheers

TB

oilcan2

I have not used the dual remote but have used
the bypass for years,my rule of thumb is if you
can tap into a oil pressure point and a return
point use the single bypass if not use the dual
remote,if you can get one for dealer cost from
a friend etc.then do that if not ,economically
you are better off signing up as a dealer and
getting dealer cost for all your amsoil products
one oil change purchase usually saves the signup
fee.
ps,I have stated before I'm not on this post to
sell amsoil but I can get you a bypass or dual
remote for dealer cost.

schaffs2

I drive a 1995 Mitsubishi Mirage LS Coupe with 65,600 mile on it in what I believe to be the harshest region on cars in the lower 48, Central Minnesota. The car has always had the oil changed every 3000 and has always run regular oil. I love the car, and want it to last as long as possible, so I'm considering going to fully synthetic oil, i.e. Mobile 1, and a fully synthetic filter, i.e. Hard Driver. both are more expensive, but i'd like to know if changing to synthetic this late in the game will do more harm then good. Thanks in advance!

bblaha

My $0.02 worth.

If you have faithfully had the oil AND filter changed every 3000 miles, I would bet you have very little sludge build up anywhere (including filling any possible leaky locations). I'm changing over to Mobil 1 synthetic with Mobil 1 filter (at about 60k miles). I also faithfully had my oil changed every 3k..

I don't know if it makes any difference or not, but I'm switching over slowing. Mobil 1 (and Castrol too) is compatible with Dino oils, so right now I'm running 1/3 synth, 2/3 dino (also Mobil to keep the add packs from competing with each other). Next oil change I'll probably go 50/50, then 67/33 and finally 100% synth. I look for leaks all the time. After 500 miles, none yet.

oilcan2

In your area I would go to amsoil 0w30 and the
amsoil filter and bypass filter.In most cases
the amsoil filter is cheaper than the mobil 1
filter,amsoil is the better oil but mobil 1 is
ok.I would also get the amsoil air filter.

markbuck

I'd run a stock filter and M1 0W-30 in winter and 5W or 10W -30 in summer.

Keep changing your oil at 3,000 miles or maybe longer in summer if you take longer trips.

yurakm

I have a 1988 For Taurus with about 125K miles. I live in Connecticut - not so cold place. Nevertheless, the engine does not like starting in winter.

Even worse, the first 5 minutes or so after starting, while the engine is still cold, it is always stalling on the first traffic light. It idles OK, but dies on green light - when I start moving after idling.

I do not drive much this car, only 12 to 20 miles per day: 5.5 miles to work, 4 miles to my son's school, less than 1 mile to buy groceries.

About once a month I drive it on highway, to "train" on higher speed - but only for about 6-10 miles. Otherwise it is pure city traffic. The engine usually never became hot enough even in the summer time, and the needle just start moving in the winter.

I always change oil every 3 months in the local Firestone/Bridgestone. They are using 10W30 oil.

Recently I wanted to switch to synthetic oil, but my mechanic refused to do this. He said, it is impossible to switch with so old car: the oil would leak in the engine, with smoke.

What have I to do to better care for the engine, and to make it not stall on intersections?

markbuck

Don't think the stalling is related to oil. I'm kinda with your mechanic on this one. Keep running the same oil.

When was the last time you had a full tuneup, had the coolant flushed out, thermostat replaced and the belts and hoses changed? Maybe have a compression check at the same time.

Short trips kill engines.

yurakm

Thank you so much!

Does it mean I have to drive the car for long distances time to time? If yes, how long and how often?

Is it possible that the winter problem is related with transmission?

The radiator was replaced very recently, two or three weeks ago, and this included the coolant replacement. I believe the hoses were replaced too, not sure about thermostat.

The serpentine belt was replaced last November. Thermostat was definitely replaced and engine was tuned two years ago. It was a major repair, or rather two. Then the head gasket was blown up and the head was sent to machine shop, a major repair. Also, the chain was replaced.

Then, only 5 days and 30 miles after this work, something happened with the crankshaft bearing and the whole engine block had to be replaced. It is less expensive and probably better to replace the whole engine by a remanufactured one, but who could knew...

But the car had the same stalling problem from the first winter after I bought it, 4 years ago, with 105K miles.

vac23

You stated the last time you got a tune up was 2 years ago. It time to get another one-replace spark plug, air filter etc. those thing normally need replacing every year.

yurakm

Thank you!

I thought it is mileage-dependent: air filter 15 000 or so, spark plugs every 50 000(?). I drive at most 3000 miles per year in this car, i.e. made only 5-6K miles after the major repair and tune up.

Any case, I will ask my mechanic to do it.

ccotenj

in most cases you would be correct, but because you put so few miles on it, you are better off changing on a "time" basis, rather than a "mileage" basis.

3000 miles a year? wow. that's a lot of short trips. that's death for a car. my 30k a year is probably less stressful on the car than your 3k...

-Chris

markbuck

Saw that Walmart is selling a 15W-40 diesel oil from Penzoil that uses their Purebase oil technology.

I think my local walmart now has about 4 choices for diesel oils. All them diesel truck sales must be driving it....

oilcan2

The firestone guy is about 20 years behind the
times in knowledge of syn oils,most of the name
brands will not leak out any faster or slower,
they used to long ago but not now.
If your mechanic has tried the latest syn. oils
and filters and then has some argument against them then that is one thing,if he has never
tried the recent ones than it is pointless to
even ask for his opinion.I am a 20 yr. user of
syn.and I hear this same story all the time.
put it this way,if you were shopping for a DVD
player would you ask someone for advice if they
did not even own one or had never used one.

yurakm

Thank you!

armtdm

I have switched two cars over to synthetic in later miles, one at 30,000 one at 50,000. The 50,000 now has 122,000 and going strong. Unfortunately, most mechanics really know nothing about lubrication. Their opinions are mostly based on how they were trained or what they see. As to filters, there is a diff, my oil analysis over the past 9 years has shown that Mobil 1, Pure One and Amsoil work others, including the manufacturer's of the car, do not work as well in filtering out small particles. Most filters go down to 20 microns, a few filter smaller, but don't be fooled by the test results, any filter will get a high % of particles on the first pass, look for the multiple pass test results. Few filters willing to publish those! As to bypass filters, most modern gas engines have no room under to hood to place one.

aquatic

I own a new 4Runner that has under 3,000 miles on it. I want to change over to Mobile 1 but a friend of mine said that I should not change over to synthetic oil right away because the the engine parts need to break in or burnish. Is this true?

Also does it do any harm to switch back and forth-run regular oil in the Summer months and switch to Synthetic in the Winter?

oilcan2

3000 mi. should be ok to switch over,if I were
you I would go to amsoil 0w30 ,use amsoil air
and oil filters and get a amsoil bypass oil
filter.you can then safely go 25,000 miles or
one year between oil changes,if you only drive
say 10,000 miles a year then change oil once a
year.you will have to change the oil filter at
the 6 mo. point.I have gone the full 25,000 mi.
on a few diff. vehicles with no problems.

bblaha

It is a fairly common belief that you shouldn't use synthetic oil during the breakin period for a new vehicle. The engine supposedly "depends" on some friction that only dino oil provides to properly wear. There is also a growing counter belief though that new engines nowadays are built to a high enough tolerance that it no longer matters...

Take your pick.

If you want to switch to synth at 3k, you're probably fine. If you want to wait till 6k, do so.

Why do you want to run dino in the summer but synth in the winter? There shouldn't be any problems, since Mobil 1 is compatible with dino oils (although you might want to stick with Mobil dino if you do switch). But why not just stick with synth? Use 10w30 in the summer and either 5w30 or 0w30 in the winter, depending on where you live.

vac23

If you ask 100 people you'll get a 100 different answers. my .02= at 3k miles that car is sufficently broken in & would be safe to switch over to syn. Some cars (covette for example) comes w/syn oil right from the factory. as far as switch back & forth between dino & syn oil. I've been told not to as it is not "healthy" for the engine.

aquatic

Upon thinking about I guess it just makes sense to stick with either synthetic or Dino oil. I just thought I could save a few bucks by using regular oil in the summer and have the high flow of synthetic during the winter.

Another question: Does using 0w30 safe if my owners manual calls for something different like say 10w-30?

vac23

It should be ok to use it. If you live in an extremely cold climate like in the snow belt then I would suggest it. It'll give you better cold weather protection and the same high temp protection as a 10w30 weight

yurakm

At least one manufacturer of synthetic oil claims the following:

Synthetic 0W-30 Motor Oil may be used in the engine of any vehicle, including those under warranty, for which the vehicle manufacturer requires the use of an SAE 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 motor oil.

(see http://www.amsoil.com/products/tso.html)

khanji

I'm looking forward to buy a Used 96 Honda Civic EX, with only 24000 miles on it. That means 6,000 miles a year. My concern is that since it's a low annual mileage car, so the service records shown by owner indicate that oil has been changed at the intervals varying from 5-8 months. I need to know from anyone out there that if the oil change interval is so long, how would that effect the engine life. Is there any special kind of check that a mechanic can perform to let me know what the exact situation of engine is. I'm planning to buy this car in a next couple of days so any early response would be appreciated as I know nothing about cars.

pat455

You might also want to post this question in our Honda Civic Problems topic (#912). We are fortunate to have an experienced Honda technician hanging out there who may be able to give you some advice. (Just click on that highlighted link to go directly to that topic.)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

armtdm

I also purchased a 1997 with only 5,400 miles on it. Lat oil change before I got it was 15 months ago. However, I was fortunate that the previous owner use synthetic and I had the oil analyzed when I changed it and it was fine. Look at the oil filler cap for sludge, inside the valve cover for sludge but I doubt that anything bad can happen with such little mileage. I would be concerned if a really cold climate,with little driving to heat the engine up, say zero degrees all winter, as condensation will form but you may see this on the dipstick as milky white gunk.

john111

Personally, I think if an auto maker recommends
5w-30w oil I would stick with it. For years I would use 30w oil when I purchases a new vehicle. In '82 my first Lincoln w/302 moror, the dealer changed my oil for some 50 or 60K miles at every
7500 miles (filter also) I used 5w-30w oil with very good results. We made frequent trips to the east coast which was better than 4000 miles round trip. We always averaged 22 to 23 mpg. On one occasion I changed oil in my shop and used the same kind of oil only it was 10w-30w, and on that trip my mpg dropped to 20 to 21 mpg. That convinced my and at almost 200,000 miles I was still using 5w-20w oil and rarely ever used a quart of oil on my 7500 changes. I always changed filters plus I always used 6 quarts of oil instead of 5. That extra volume of oil really pays off. Recently I purchased a Toyota tundra and am using Mobil @1 5w-30w synthetic oil. I used 7 quarts of oil instead of 6 and also changed filter. I run all my vehicle well over the 100000 miles.-- unless I get a lemon. From my standpoint, the viscosity does determine your mpg.

markbuck

Don't run an extra quart of oil!


Geeze! If the crank hits the oil in the pan, you will foam the oil and lose the lubrication properties of the oil.

Most any vehicle will go 200,000 miles with normal, proper maintenance. You don't need additives, special oils, special instructions,....

Warm up the engine slowly, change your oil frequently, and follow the owner's manual instructions.

vac23

I agree. If the manufacturer wanted an extra quart of oil in the engine, then they would state it in the manuel. Who else would know better then the ones who designed the engine in the first place?

ccotenj

yea, real bad advice is right. that extra quart doesn't help, can hurt, and basically it'll get burned off.

-Chris

0patience

That extra oil is not good for all of the reasons state so far,plus overfull engiens tend to want to blow out seals,which makes a very big,expensive leak.

treyh1

Are short trips bad because the engine doesn't warm up, or because they're assuming you'll have more start-up time?

I ask because our van will often make a 3-10 mile trip then return. Assuming that's its only trip of the day, and it often is, it doesn't get started any more than a guy driving 50 miles to work. I live in Florida, so the engine usually comes up to temperature within a couple of miles from the house, so any condensation should evaporate out through the exhaust. I'm trying to decide whether to stay on the "severe service" schedule with regular oil or go to synthetic and use the "normal service" schedule. We only put about 7-9k a year on it, so if I go to synthetic I'll probably just change it once a year regardless, with maybe a filter at the six month mark. Any thoughts?

spokane

The primary problem associated with short trips is the fact that the engine is often stopped before it reaches full temperature. Condensation of crankcase and exhaust system fumes is thus greater even though modern fuel injection has made this less of a problem than is was with carburetted engines. The Florida climate does make this less of a problem than in colder areas. However, even though your coolant temperature normalizes in about two miles, the oil and exhaust system temperatures require a longer distance to normalize. With your modest annual mileage, the "severe service" schedule is surely a good idea. This frequency prevents too many months from elapsing between the other checks that normally accompany an oil change. (Fluid leakage, hoses, belts, steering components, etc.) A change to synthetic oil would add a further degree of engine-life insurance but I believe the cost-effectiveness of this step would be difficult to determine in your case.

markbuck

"However, even though your coolant temperature normalizes in about two miles, the oil and exhaust system temperatures require a longer distance to normalize. With your
modest annual mileage, the "severe service"
schedule is surely a good idea."

Take it on a 20 to 50 mile interstate drive every couple of weeks. It will add years to your engine's life!

vandad

I've got a Chevy Lumina Minivan with the 3.8L 6cyl
engine. I love this car. (...now, I wouldn't let my daughter marry it, but if they wanted to go out together it would be OK...) I bought it with 74K on it with very new looking oil. I want to do whatever I can to make it car last to at least 200K. I've driven it about 2.5K miles. It'll be due for an oil change soon, eventhough the oil still looks very clean. I don't know know what is in the car now but it's barely brown. I'm considering using a synthetic (Mobil 1?). Has this discussion come to any concensus on whether it's wise to switch oil in a car that's not so young anymore?

pat455

You might like to check out the posts in this topic here:

Synthetic motor oil (Topic #543)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

bgkanne

Sometimes putting synthetic oil in a vehicle with considerable mileage results in high oil usage and leaks. It's probably not a good idea.

ruking1

#196
Only one question, when you pull the oil pan or valve cover gaskets is there any sludge build up?

nematode

#197
I originally started with 6000+mile interval oil changes because I was dumb enought to think I could afford a car in high school. Then I realised that I was driving really old cars with lots of miles doing the long intercal oil change thing. So I do that with all our cars now.
To answer your question, I (not actually me but a mechanic) have looked in 2 of the cars at about 120k miles and, yes, there is some sludge build-up (little more in the pan) but it did not seem to adversely affect the life of the engine in my hands. BUT It may have over 200k miles BUT I dont keep the cars that long because one starts to see diminishing returns before that in annoying little non-engine/drivetrain related failures plus by that time I want a newer car with fewer miles. I'm sure the sludge is not great for the engine but in the time I drive them it does not seem to be a problem. I'm sure the 3k oil change interval is better for the engine. I'm really not questioning that. Its probably even better to run a pure synthetic but does it actually extend the life of the engine? I'm not a mechanic and I dont play one on TV but I'm not so sure the 3k mile interval actually extends engine life in my useable range (to about 200kmiles). If anyone is curious, the cars I have done this for are:
84 Honda Accord SEi. Transmission gone at 110k and rebuilt. Engine fine at 186k when it was traded for a 90 Corolla. Transmission gone at 123k(or around there) and rebuilt. Engine fine at 175k. Gave it to my brother and got a 94 Grand Am. Transmission may have been going at 140k but the engine was fine. That was a pretty good car. There was a Buick Regal Estate Wagon in there too but I cant remember the year. It was my first car. I took it to about 130k until the transmission went and then gave it to my brother. He had the trans rebuilt and drove if for a few years and sold it. It probably had 150k and was OK.
I now have a 89 Taurus but that car is just fine. Its got sludge in the pan but it still runs fine and can actually still kiss 30mpg on the highway. Its had other problems like several alternators, A/C, water pump, some electical issues and so on. But the push rod Vulcan keep running. I'm waiting for it to die so I can get a new car but I'm a little interested in seeing how far it can go on its original transmission.
My wife has a 2k Subaru OB Ltd. and that car also gets 6000-7000mile oil changes after the initial 3000k mile change. The manual actually suggests 7.5k interval.

ruking1

In the cases in which you speak, it seems the trick is to keep in point A to B transportation at the lowest possible cost. It sounds like you have a found a balance that suits you.

nematode

(ruking1): I think you pretty much guessed it. I maintain my cars because I have to in order to keep overall costs down not because I want to or like to. The story would be different if I had a sports car that I drove hard or I were into towing or off-roading or something like that. In that case I would run pure synthetic and probably change every 3-5k. I'm just not sure why most drivers need a 3k oil change interval. It cant hurt (the environment perhaps) but does it help the engine last longer? To the point where the rest of the car starts to break down?
Over the life of the car for a quick-lube person like me I bet the difference is $700 and over 2 or 3 cars is a big chunk of change. Probably a $2000 difference for a 3 car home.
What I really would like to see is a well controlled study of engine life -vs- oil/filter change interval. I wonder where the point is where one would see a difference? My guess is 10k with regular and 50k with synthetic. Any thoughts?

edwardh1

Consumer Reports did one last year. They said 7500 miles was OK.

.

jjackson43

Might I offer a suggestion that is rather inexpensive that might provide some added life to your transmissions, for less than $100 you can add a transmission oil cooler. I tow a heavy camper with my vehicle, and it has over 120K miles on it, and the transmission has never been out, but I have several coolers on it, and I change the oil every $15K miles. I have a temp guage on the transmission oil, and you'd be surprised how hot it gets just driving around in town without a load behind it..the starting and stopping heads them up. I'm totally convinced that a "cool" transmission (< than 180 degrees)will provide unlimited service in most cases.

John

yurakm

But how to add the transmission cooler and/or temp gauge? Would a dealer do it?

jjackson43

I did it myself (you wouldn't need a guage (I have one because I pull a very heavy RV travel trailer frequently in the mountains), but any mechanic you trust can do it, or you can drive to the closest U-Haul dealer, I had them install my first one when I had the trailer hitch installed.

They will likely ask how heavy of a load you are pulling, I'd tell them you want a heavy duty one.

John

yurakm

Thank you!

vandad

OK... I went ahead and did it. I changed the oil and filter in my Chevy Lumina Minivan (3.8L engine) to Mobil 1 at 76K miles. I figured it was worth a shot and there didn't seem to be a concensus against doing so. I worried a bit at first because there was a slight leak, just a few drips a day. (I think from around the pan) It isn't leaking anymore so I think I'm ok. 2000 miles later and the oil looks the same as the day I put it in. If it's as good for the car as people say and if it means I can change my oil half as often, it's worth the extra expense. I don't enjoy getting under the car nearly as much as I used to.

arjay1

I did it as well.
I did my 70,000 mile oil change on my wifes Chrysler Town & Country minivan and put in Mobil 1 5w30. It did a slow drip from around the oil filter for the first few days but appears to have stopped.
I pull a 5' x 10' utility trailer with this van loaded with 3 dirt bikes. That is what pushed me to move to the synthetic. The added stress of towing will hopefully be offset by the better oil.
This van has been a major POS over the past 3-1/2 years. The longest period of time without some type of repair has been 4 months. We just hit the three month mark without any work and thought we were on our way to a record. But no, wife called yesterday and said her driver side window will not go up any farther than halfway. We are tired of fixing the van so I just forced the window up and we will not put it down again. The engine has always run well, the van is paid for so we are hoping for a lot of miles.
I also did my 5,000 mile oil change on my '00 VW Passat. I have the 1.8l turbo engine so decided to switch to the same Mobil 1. VW provides all maintenance for the first 2 years or 24,000 miles but I decided to provide my own oil to the dealer for the change. Again, the heat of the turbo is what swayed me to the synthetic.

jed1894

I have a 2001 Passat GLS also and was considering switching to Syn. oil at my 5000 oil change. However, I was told on another site that conv. oil should be used until at least 30k miles on VW before making the switch. Another site said 10k miles before switching.

Did you dealer make any comments about that to you?

Also, what kind of conv. oil were they using?

JOhn

armtdm

You can switch anytime. Most dealers are ill informed on synthetics oils, have no idea as to truth about synthetics. Any engine built today can be switched ASAP to synthetics. Many engines now coming from the factory with synthetics. The break in period has become a myth for oils.