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GM News, New Models and Market Share

torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
In the last three months or so, GM saw sales rise, thanks to excellent new models. On the other hand, Toyota is facing quality problem, and recently sale decline. Is this a new a trend? GM is the only american auto company that is doing well for now. Ford is trying to get on its feet. Chrysler is just in deep trouble.


  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302 look at a 2005 Park Avenue that turned out to be a dud, (bad repaint). Anyway, I asked about the LaCrosse Super and they're going to be somewhere in the $31K range and be powered by a 5.3 V-8 similar to the Impala SS.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    $31k? :confuse: Jeez, that kind of money will get you a Genesis with a lot of extra space driven by the proper wheels.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    That is however yet to be confirmed. ;)

  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    I remember reading a review about the Super and it was mostly negative. It was smooth and had good performance in straight line, but it was a lousy handler with an outdated chasis. And the fit and finish of the imporved interior was poor. LaCrosse belongs to the old GM era, not the new excellent products.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I don't see what the LaCrosse Super has that isn't already available on the Pontiac or Impala "Super". All three are on an aging platform that should be dumped sooner than later. The G8 Pontiac is a much better choice for a performance sedan, or the new CTS. FWD makes for poor performance in handling.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Okay the LaCrosse Super, might not be the best effort but with cash on the hood it would make a great alternative. It sure beats buying a camcord for the same money. ;)

    I myself really like the Buick Lucerne Super. If I wasn't so obsessed with the new Saab 9-3 Black Turbo X :shades: it would rank up their a little higher.

    My Top 5 favorite GM cars for 2008.

    #1 Saab Turbo X

    #2 Cadillac CTS

    #3 Corvette

    #4 Cadillac STS

    #5 Lucerne Super
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Here's my take on the Lucerne Super, which has a certain appeal, to be sure. Among other things, it evokes memories of the most exciting performance oriented Buicks of the past (the first pre-war Century, the '55 and '57 centuries, and the Grand Nationals). I think, though, that it'll be a much better value as a used car, just as the supercharged Regal GS is, than a new car. By the time the next generation Lucerne is introduced, the '08 Super will have depreciated to the point where it'll be a great value.

    Want a great performance value today? Then consider a late model Regal GS. For new, buy an Accord; for used, buy a Regal. Hopefully, Buick will fix this paradigm soon, with more aspirational. "gotta have" cars. I hope so, because I'd like to see Buick, as well as the other domestic brands, not only survive, but thrive. I root for the home team, but, like other hypocrites, I vote with my wallet. The domestic brands are closing the gap with the imports, but for the most part, they're not there yet. There are exceptions, such as the Corvette (a clear example of best-in-class), and, arguably, the CTS. Others come close, but could use a little more tweaking. Examples of these would include the Chrysler 300, and Ford Fusion, the new Taurus, and, yes, the new Focus, in my opinion. I say "could" because, while they may not be stand out as best-in-class, they're very competitive in their respective classes. The jury is out on the '08 Malibu, but hopefully it'll put Chevy solidly back into the family sedan segment.

    My 2 cents.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Among other things, it evokes memories of the most exciting performance oriented Buicks of the past

    How does it do that? The Lucerne Super has maybe 5 more horsepower than the regular V8 Lucerne.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Sorry, my comments were intended for the LaCrosse Super, since that's the model with the powerful engine in a medium size body, in the spirit of the Centurys and GN.

    The Lucerne Super is more of a successor to the Park Avenue T-Types of the '80s, or were they Electra T-Types (can't remember exactly now, but they were the large body, more sporty Buicks of that period).
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    How about a supercharged Park Avenue Ultra? Saw a nice white 2004 with the supercharged Park Ave, but was afraid of the supercharger's reliability.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    The supercharger is fine. You just have to change the oil regularly (which you would do anyway), and replace it with a new unit every 60k or so just like a timing belt.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "How about a supercharged Park Avenue Ultra?" Yeah, that could work, provided it had the touring suspension (or whatever Buick calls their upgraded suspension), because not all supercharged Park Avenues had it. Help me out here, lemko, were all supercharged Park Avenues Ultras, or could you get a supercharged PA that wasn't an Ultra? I know someone who has a supercharged '97 PA with the standard suspension, but I don't know if it's an Ultra.

    I guess I prefer the Regal GS to the supercharged PA, in terms of size, but the PA would be okay. For that matter a Bonneville SSEi would also be okay, but while I like the Regal GS, I don't care for the supercharged Gran Prix or Impala. These are just my personal preferences.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    Never saw a supercharged Park Ave that wasn't an Ultra. I just prefer the look of the Ultra to the "regular" Park Ave. I can't get the image out of my head when I saw a beautiful black Ultra pull out of a Dunkin' Donuts parking lot on my way to work one morning. I'm almost glad the PA I wanted to look at all week turned out to be a dud as I really don't need another car. My '88 Park Ave still has a lot of life left in it, but the delaminating clear coat really makes me sick to look at. Guess I was just smitten with that Ultra I saw about a year ago.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    The Bonneville GXP, are sure nice also andwould make a nice daily driver. However it probably has a little more harsher ride than what you are accustomed to. ;)

    I still think lemko, will be very attracted to the Buick Lucerne Super, as that would be more his style and it's FWD so he could drive it year around if he chose. :shades:

  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    For less money, the Pontiac G8 is a much better deal. What with 362hp V8 for around $30,000.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Not really if you are looking for a true ELLPS. If you want just a sports sedan with a touch luxury then yeah. However the CTS, would still be my preferred choice. I don't think I'll be interested in the G8, until they add more power and add the Delphi Magneride System like they did in Australia for the Commodore HSV. ;)


    P.S. You also can't get a stick on the G8, until next year. :sick:
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    As you may know, I like the styling, size, and space efficiency of the '85-'90 GM large bodies, so I understand your feelings regarding your '88 PA. And, yes, a pristine, black Ultra would be appealing.

    "Never saw a supercharged Park Ave that wasn't an Ultra." Okay, but isn't it true that you could get the Ultra with the standard PA suspension or the upgraded touring suspension, at least in some model years, such as '97? I seem to recall that one of the changes Bob Lutz made was to make the touring suspension standard on all Ultras, but I don't recall when that change was introduced. The touring suspension would be an important upgrade for me.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    As far as I can tell, the Gran Touring suspension setup was optional on both the Ultra and regular Park Ave since around 1994. Part of that package was magnetic variable-effort steering.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The T-type was an Electra, I owned an 86. The basic difference was a stiffer suspension and tires. The Park Avenue was top of the line for luxury.

    In 1991, the new body became just the Park Avenue, with the Ultra top of the line. The supercharged V6 became available in 1992 I think, and was only available with the Ultra where it was standard.

    The optional suspension was available on both Park Avenues and the LeSabre from 1991 and earlier.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Thanks to both for clarifying.

    Lemko, which suspension do you prefer for the PA/Utra? Also, did Buick firm up the regular suspension of the PA/Ultra,if only a little, with the '97 platform change. It seems to me that with the significant improvement in body stiffness, the suspension was firmed up a tad, but maybe you know for sure.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    I'd prefer the tighter suspension as my driving style is more spirited than that of the typical Buick owner. I'm sure my '88 just has the regular suspension as it came two generations prior to the last Park Aves. Here's a little history on the 1997-2005 Park Avenue Ultra I found:

    Redesigned for 1997, Buick's "flagship" front-drive luxury sedan faced such rivals as the Infiniti I30, Lexus EX 300, and Oldsmobile Aurora. Wheelbase grew by three inches, overall length by about an inch. Weight also went up, by some 250 pounds. Styling was strictly evolutionary. Two models went on sale: a base Park Avenue and the plusher Park Avenue Ultra. Each carried a 3.8-liter V6 engine, but the one in the Ultra was supercharged to deliver 240 horsepower. The base V6 was rated at a more modest 205 horsepower. Both were teamed with a revised 4-speed automatic transmission, whose new electronic torque converter clutch was designed to produce smoother shifts. A redesigned interior featured unique seats that anchored both the lap and shoulder belts to the seat itself. The belts moved with the seats, to improve comfort for very tall or very short drivers. Buick's Personal Choice system, standard in Park Avenue, included a remote entry transmitter that could automatically adjust the driver's seat, outside mirrors, automatic door locks, lighting, and other accessories to either of two settings. This year, it added sound and climate adjustments, retained accessory power, and daytime running lights. A newly optional head-up display projected speedometer and other gauge readings onto the windshield. Also joining the option list: rain-sensing wipers and a dust filter for the automatic climate-control system.

    1998 Buick Park Avenue: Park Avenue sedan gained some enhanced safety and convenience features for 1998. Dual airbags got reduced inflation power to deploy with less force (but still meet federal safety standards). A new passenger-side mirror, standard on Ultra and optional on the base model, tilted downward when reverse gear was engaged. Buick dealers could now install GM's OnStar communications system. That system linked the car by satellite and cellular telephone to a 24-hour GM center from which advisors could provide directions and travel advice, and also notify local authorities during an emergency situation.

    1999 Buick Park Avenue: Changes were modest for '99, including the addition of "Elite Walnut" interior trim to the Park Avenue Ultra, and availability of a tire-pressure monitor gauge. The tire-monitor was standard on the Ultra edition.

    2000 Buick Park Avenue: Front side airbags went into both 2000 models. GM's StabiliTrak system became standard on the Ultra and optional on the base Park Avenue. Designed to sense an impending skid in a turn and apply the brakes to an individual wheel, to keep the car on its intended course. Both models also gained child-seat anchors on the rear package shelf.

    2001 Buick Park Avenue: Ultrasonic rear parking assist was a new option for 2001, while leather upholstery and an interior memory system became standard on base models.

    2002 Buick Park Avenue: Steering-wheel radio and climate controls became standard on both models for 2002.

    2003 Buick Park Avenue: Ultra gets three chrome-plated "VentiPorts" on each front fender. Associated with Buick since 1949 and last seen in the 1980s, these design icons also increase engine-compartment airflow, Buick says. Other retro additions to Ultra are a "waterfall" grille, tri-shield Buick insignia, and chrome exhaust tips.

    2004 Buick Park Avenue: No significant changes were made in '04.

    2005 Buick Park Avenue: In '05, Park Avenue gets revisions to grille and taillamps, and the base model gains the front-fender "portholes" previously reserved for the top-line Park Avenue Ultra. Buick says 2005 is the final model year for Park Avenue.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Good info on the PA/Ultra, but nothing about the touring suspension.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The touring suspension was still an option. I can say that the new body design (Aurora body or G-body) resulted in a different suspension design, which took GM a couple of years to refine, as both the 95 Riviera and Aurora suspension under went some refinements, which were incorporated in the 97 Park Avenue. GM's older suspension design involved the basic idea that the body (or frame) was not "stiff" but would absorb some of the bumps in the road. The big difference in the suspension refinements were added suspension travel I think, as my 95 Riviera would bottom out at times, while my 98 Aurora did not, nor did my 2002 Seville. All would drag the front end on pavement if the driveways were a bit too steep.

    My Aurora did handle a bit better than the Seville. My Seville was the luxury sedan, not the touring sedan (STS). But neither car was a sport sedan, and I doubt that the Park Avenue with the Grand Touring Suspension is a lot better than the base suspension. The big difference is probably the upgraded tires that came with the suspension package. I find that my Cadillac SRX is way better handling that any of the G-bodies that I owned, and I have yet to find a driveway steep enough to cause either the front or rear end to scrape pavement.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    I thought this car would be fine with the 430hp from the base Corvette. But now I realized why GM decided to go with the 505hp 7.0 V8. The car is some 200-300 pounds heavier than its competitors. Let's just hope it can keep up with the handling.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    The CTS is a barge, but so is everything else in its class. The IS-F weighs 3800 pounds. :mad: I remember complaining that the old IS 300 was overweight at 3200. :cry:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 46,818
    Geez, my E55 weighs 3800 lbs - and it looks a bit bigger than an IS. It also feels like a pretty heavy car, even with the power and torque.
  • IS-F specs

    Length (in): 183.5
    Width (in): 71.5
    Height (in): 55.7
    Wheelbase (in): 107.5
    Legroom, front (in): 43.9
    Legroom, rear (in): 30.6
    Headroom, front (in): 37.2
    Headroom, rear (in): 36.7
    Maximum Seating Capacity: 4
    Cargo Volume (cu-ft): 13.3
    Maximum Cargo Volume, rear seats down (cu-ft): Not specified

    Manufacturer Curb Weight (lb): 3,780 (3,780 as tested)

    E55 and IS350 specs doesn't have the IS-F up yet.

    The E55 Looks to be about 6 inches longer but about the same curb weight.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 46,818
    Those comparisons are cool, I forgot about those
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I was just curious ????? Lemko, could buy one of these for his girlfriend !!! ;)

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