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GM News, New Models and Market Share



  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Shoot, the CTS is selling so hot, my dealership can't even keep 'em in stock!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043,0,249526- 1.story?coll=la-class-autos-highway1

    So here's a new thought, worthy of defending: Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market, with so much at stake for its makers, dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism. In a segment that lives and dies by European benchmarks, the CTS sets fire to the bench and throws it through the shopkeepers' window.

    But just park the CTS next to the competition. The Mercedes-Benz C350 looks hidebound by its own heritage; the BMW, staid and predictable, a law clerk's car. In this big-numbers segment -- entry luxury sport-sedans -- there is a distinct proclivity to play it safe. The CTS hits the street like a ruby fired out of a shotgun.
    Indeed, because there is so much technical parity in this segment, it's personality and character, not trivial tenths of acceleration or cornering, that make one car worth buying and the other not.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    to say absolutely nothing of any substance. A masterpiece of puffery.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Well, the avant-garde is what put Automobile off, while Motor Trend loved it. Car & Driver liked the CTS with the automatic but was put off by the 6 speed manual. Road & Track was going to do a comparison with a 5-series but realized that they were not in the same class.

    I seriously doubt that any long time Mercedes or BMW owners are trading for the CTS. But Camry owners looking to move into the sport sedan segment may well give the CTS serious consideration.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I'd like to see even one documented case of a satisfied Camry owner trading it in on a CTS as her primary ride.
  • Sadly, GM manual gearboxes suck royally. Ugh, I drove the first gen CTS and it was like rowing a rod through a box of rocks. Seriously, it was notchy, clunky and the most imprecise shifter I've ever driven this side of an eighties Saab 900. If it's the same contraption used in the Solstice then it's probably the same one that came from the Colorado pickup truck. The clutch takeup on it was really tough to modulate as well, I would have hated to drive one in bumper to bumper traffic. I probably would have had to get out and stretch my leg every 5 minutes with the damn thing! :D

    Unfortunately the availablity/popularity of "rowing it yourself" has been given way to DSG's and slicker Automanuals so I bet the Automatic version is an infinitely better driver. And a manual CTS is a rare bird anyways (even the salesman, "Slick Rick" had no idea the dealership had one) and GM would be smart to keep it that way or just eliminate them altogether.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    I can see at least one instance of a satisfied LaCrosse owner trading it in on a CTS as her primary ride.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I can see that, too, but the kind of person who spends their money on a Camry isn't the sort of person who then turn around and spends it on a CTS. Completely different mindsets and worldviews. If the Camry buyer wants a luxury sport sedan, they're getting an IS350 or G35.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Four of 6 finalists for NA Car & Truck of the Year are GM's. Cadillac CTS, Chevrolet Malibu, Chevy Tahoe Hybrid and Buick Enclave. The other 2 vehicles are the Honda Accord and Mazda CX-9
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994

    YEP !!!! :shades:

    GM, is kicking butt !!! The turn around is working !!! :blush:

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    GREAT! Strange but I wonder which vehicles GM wants to have win the top spots? I would say the Malibu because they need the press on that one.

    Not sure on the truck side which one they want. The Enclave is selling like mad so perhaps they would rather have the Hybrid Tahoe since it is going to be a hard sell. Greenies would not like it because it is so big even if it got 30/40 mpg. And those who buy SUV's are not going to want to spend the extra bucks because there will be no pay back. It also does not offer much in the way of styling difference so those who buy to be seen will see no reason to, i.e. the Honda Accord Hybrid syndrome.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    It also does not offer much in the way of styling difference so those who buy to be seen will see no reason to, i.e. the Honda Accord Hybrid syndrome.

    Yeah, putting "H Y B R I D" lettering on the flanks might help a bit, but a different grille and an aero kit to reduce the drag coefficient would have done more in both the looks and performance departments.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    A camry owner is more likely to consider all the options when it comes to buying a sport sedan, while mercedes or bmw owners are less likely. What GM/Cadillac need are not other GM owners trading GM cars for the CTS, but owners of other manufacturers trading in for a CTS. If Buick owners start trading in for CTS's then Buick is dead. :sick:

    the camry owner is most likely going for the lexus es though
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    as a drastically-needed product rationalization.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Sounds like what we have discussed before. Give GMC the trucks, Ponitac RWD premium performance cars and Buick premium mid range luxury vehicles.

    Now the question is, in the future, will the Enclave be dropped from Buick and only let GMC have one. Lots of ways to look at this, but my opinion is that GMC just could not pull off a fantastically styled vehicle like the Enclave. Just not truck enough. So let Buick keep the Enclave and compete with the Lexus CUV. Drop the Acadia at GMC and let Chevrolet sell the CUV Transverse.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    I gotta tell you, it takes someone like Bob to push something thru GM's system.

    The Saturn Astra represents a quantum leap forward for GM in the small car market. For a mere $100 million, which is chicken feed for a new product, the General traded in the uninspiring Ion for the European juggernaut Opel Astra. Many thought GM was merely buying time (literally) until a truly global Astra appears in 2010, since we've been told for years that it was too expensive (see: Focus) to retro-fit a Euro-car for the US Market.

    Maximum Bob has turned that paradigm upside down, as he explained that the spared development costs have netted GM savings of about $900 million. Of course, GM would probably never shell out $1 billion for a small car with a volume of 45,000 units per year, but since the General makes products all over the globe, it makes sense to sell the best cars and trucks wherever it can. If it helps keep your factories at full capacity while saving $900 million at the same time, than that's cool, too. Hey, if this is the new reality of automakers going global, we're all for it. Now Ford, bring on that Mondeo already!
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    So let Buick keep the Enclave and compete with the Lexus CUV. Drop the Acadia at GMC and let Chevrolet sell the CUV Transverse.

    That's what I would do, but I'd also dump the GMC version of the Equinox for an upclass Buick 5-seater and give GMC an old-school SUV based on the next midsize truck platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    What next midsize truck platform? I guess I see a great need for a real mid sized pick up truck in the future, but I doubt anyone will be selling a mid sized framed SUV in the future. Then again with the new fuel rules, perhaps there will be a forced market for a small SUV that can pull some heavy loads higher than the 5000# or so the CUV's are capable of.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I'm assuming (perhaps optimistically) that GM won't simply leave the Colorado and Canyon to rot on the vine. Sharing the hood and cab with the truck would cut down development costs for a mid-size SUV oriented toward off-road use. The Tahoe and Suburban are too big for that role, and the CUVs exist for the kiddie market.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043

    Of course the guys from the scientists Union have no clue. "Just use conventional approaches and simple fixes". Thats why every company is proposing huge investments in expensive technology and materials to meet it. Even Honda offering basically only small cars and few trucks will have to introduce expensive hybrids.

    I think though that Honda is in for a little surprize. The new rules state that the entire industry output must meet the 35 mpg average. It also states that segments will have their own mpg requirements based on size. So while large cars may need to meet 30 mpg, smaller vehicles will have to meet 40 to get the industry wide 35. So Hondas will actually have to get closer to 40 mpg average while GM corporate average will get closer to 30 due to their larger trucks and cars.

    DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. plans new gasoline-electric hybrids and an electric car, Ford Motor Co. will introduce more turbochargers and direct fuel injection on smaller engines, and Toyota Motor Corp. is mulling lighter weight vehicles -- all aiming to meet tougher U.S. fuel efficiency standards that became law on Wednesday.

    The first rewrite of the U.S. Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) rules since they were created in the late 1970s will require large investments by manufacturers to meet the average fleetwide target of 35 miles per gallon by 2020, a 40 percent increase over current levels.

    The new CAFE regulations were included in broad energy legislation approved by Congress and signed by President George W. Bush on Wednesday.

    "There is no one silver bullet out there for fuel efficiency," said IRN analyst Erich Merkle. "It has to be a myriad of things... reducing the weight of the vehicle, using more aluminum, hybrids."

    Eli Hopson, representative of the Union of Concerned Scientists Clean Vehicle program, said conventional approaches and simple fixes are cheaper.

    Auto companies plan gradual improvements. They will emphasize more efficient gasoline engines and a combination of alternative-fuel options -- including ethanol and gasoline blends, electricity, gasoline-electric hybrids and hydrogen-powered vehicles.

    GM is betting on an upcoming electric car, the Volt, while Ford is planning a range of turbocharged direct injection gasoline engine technologies, which the company says will provide fuel savings between 10 to 20 percent.

    GM also plans to launch an average of one new hybrid model every three months for the next two years that includes the Saturn Vue and Aura Green Line, and Chevrolet Malibu.

    Ford also plans to make half of its production capable of running on alternative fuels by 2012.

    "The new fuel economy standards within the bill set a tough, national target that GM will strive to meet," GM company's chief executive, Rick Wagoner, said in a statement on Tuesday.

    Japanese automaker Honda Motor Co., which has the highest fleet mileage of any major automaker, is rolling out a new mass-market hybrid in 2009, said it will make the new standard on a fleetwide basis.

    "Where we're going the 35 mile-per-gallon standard will take a lot of resources and a lot of effort, but we can do it," said John Mendel, executive vice president in charge of Honda's U.S. operations in an interview last week.

    Toyota North America, the leader in hybrid technology, is mulling a plan to move to lighter weight materials to improve efficiency.

    Gasoline demand accounts for nearly half of the average daily U.S. consumption of 20.9 million barrels of oil. The regulations could lower U.S. crude oil usage by 2 million barrels per day -- or 8 percent -- by 2030, according to government estimates.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994

    A Mid-Engined Corvette ???? :surprise: I guess if they can Ferrari 512 Testarossa-ize it with the huge side scoops then I'm for it !!!! :shades:[email protected]/293121339/

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...the idea of a mid-engined Corvette is not new. Chevrolet had an experimental mid-engine 'Vette, with a 4-rotor rotary engine no less, back in 1973!
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    A mid-engine Corvette? :confuse:

    That's like building a front-engine NSX. Oh, wait... :cry:
  • With Ford and Chrysler on the brink of going out of business, I would expect those people to defect to GM (if they haven't already ;) ) so that should push GM well above 30% and maybe closer to 40%.

    That's if Toyota doesn't go out of business first, with all the recalls, sludged engines, terrible customer service, miserable reliability and cheap interiors it could be a close race to the bottom!

    The American Revolution is in full swing and taking names!
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yep !!!!

    You must be anythingbutgm's evil twin !!! :shades:

  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500

    The American Revolution is in full swing and taking names!

    With Ford and Chrysler at or near rock bottom, the american revolution is NOT in full swing. Maybe later when they rebound.

    That's if Toyota doesn't go out of business first, with all the recalls, sludged engines, terrible customer service, miserable reliability and cheap interiors it could be a close race to the bottom!

    And yet despite all that, Toyota is leaving 2007 as the second largest seller behind GM, gaining market share and outselling Ford. And GM, despite all the good products has lost market share. We will see what happens in the near future.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    2007 recall data shows that GM had the fewest vehicle recalls of all major OEMs. Toyota/Honda had a few more even thought they sold fewer vehicles. Ford is the one the sticks out with a huge quantity.

    Again data shows that quality, as measured by things gone wrong, is pretty much even now.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    No, he's anythingbutgm's good twin! Andres3 is andre1969's evil twin.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    LOL !!!

  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918

    How much did Toyota make last year? I think it is in the billions.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    retail sales flat with last year
    rental Fleet sales down another 100,000 units

    General Motors Corp.'s North American sales chief said
    Wednesday the auto maker's retail market share was flat in 2007 but
    expects to increase it this year with newly launched cars and crossover
    utility vehicles.

    Mark LaNeve, speaking to reporters, said that GM will continue its
    strategy of being more selective with incentives and keeping sales to
    fleet customers, such as car rental companies, modest.

    "Our retail share, when the year is said and done, will be really flat,"
    LaNeve said. "It's been flat over the last couple of years. We'd like it
    to start growing, but in a market where things are shifting from trucks
    and SUVs to passenger cars, that's not too bad."

    Retail sales exclude sales to fleet customers.

    GM has worked to offer better products in segments where it has
    struggled against Japanese competitors.

    LaNeve said GM has "certainly a great opportunity to grow our share"
    since it is still ramping up launches of passenger cars and crossover
    utility vehicles.

    He noted that demand for the new Chevrolet Malibu, a midsize car, has
    been higher than expected and probably won't be up to full production
    levels until April or May.

    He also said GM is "looking at a pretty good retail December," though he
    noted that sales to fleet customers will be down 15,000 to 20,000 for
    the month.

    Auto makers report December sales Thursday.

    GM will end 2007 with fleet sales down more than 100,000 from the prior
    year, LaNeve said. That's part of a planned pullback from fleet sales
    that's intended to improve residual values for GM vehicles.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Anyone notice that Toyota is now releasing press releases stating they have Li batteries in testing for usage in an upcoming model? Just two months ago they were saying that GM was doing dangerous testing using Li batteries. They were gonna burn up like Toyotas did!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Well the show is coming fast. Some surprizes for all I hope ;)

    What concept vehicles and actual releases I would like to see besides just the production vehicles:

    Buick: show car of a vehicle to make Rocky happy :) with perhaps a little "comment" from Lutz on making it. If not that, a hint at what the next LaCrosse will look like and it shows a bit of Enclave "out there" styling.

    Pontiac: A hint of a possible RWD G6 concept car. Perhaps a RWD compact to replace the G5.

    GMC: replacement for the mid size pick up trucks. With the new MPG rules and cost of gas perhaps this segment can become something worthwhile.

    Chevy: More Volt type vehicles. Lutz has said the Volt is just the start. Lets see another plugged in electric model in another segment besides small sedan.

    A hint of the Impala. Do not know whether it will be FWD or RWD but show something. Perhaps this can be a full size plugged in electrical car?????

    Release the actual Camaro.

    Mid sized pick up truck?

    Release the Chevy Lamda.

    Cadillac: release the CTS coupe and convertible (CTC, CTO????)

    BLS concept

    STS/DTS replacement concepts, perhaps with a V16 hybrid available :blush:

    Saturn: ??? perhaps an Astra convertible to make Saturn a bit more playful?

    Saab: I really do not care. Rocky can fill in the blank here.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043

    Now building at two plants.

    It likely will be spring before GM is able to build enough of the new Chevrolet Malibus to meet demand, the automaker's sales chief said Wednesday. Meanwhile, thousands of dealers are without a made-over Malibu on their lots.

    GM says the shortage is a good problem to have -- and several automotive analysts agree.

    The new Malibus "are turning faster and more prolifically than we anticipated. They're selling well in Southern California. They're selling well in Flint," Mark LaNeve, GM North America vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing, said Wednesday. "We don't have anywhere near the availability we'd need for peak (sales) performance."

    GM last month ramped up Malibu production. The cars are built at GM's Orion factory, as well as at the Fairfax plant in Kansas City, Kan., where the last generation Malibu was built.

    LaNeve said GM anticipated big demand for the new Malibu, but not to the extent the automaker has seen since the car hit showrooms Nov. 1.

    Analysts say it will likely take several months to truly gauge Malibu's success.

    The Malibu's dramatic overhaul has been a hit with auto critics, and consumers appear to be responding. GM is looking to Malibu to steal customers from the top-selling Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043

    US industry average up 1 mpg last year for a record 26.6 mpg. cars:31.2 trucks:23.1

    GM 29.9 domestic cars, 31.9 imported cars, 22.6 trucks

    Toyota 31.6 domestic cars, 38.5 imported (mostly Prius), 23.8 trucks
    if it wasn't for the Prius the MPG's between Toyota and GM would be pretty even.

    Interesting that Nissan had lower mileage in both cars and trucks than GM.

    Mandates were 27.5/22.2

    6 manufacturers got fines for not meeting requirements: Daimler/Chrysler(due to Mercedes), BMW, Porsche, Maserati, VW, Ferrari. How the hell did VW not make it????
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Do you guys think Scion is a Toyota model or a Toyota corporation division?

    I guess I see them as a group of vehicles marketed separately like a Pontiac. They are not at all Toyota dealerships. They are not marketed as "Toyota Scion Xb"'s. They do not have separate dealerships for the Scions but rarely does Pontiac or Buick or GMC.

    To me they are a brand like Pontiac, Buick, Dodge, Toyota, Acura. Are there any other examples of a brand like Scion??
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Saab: We need to see the next 9-5 :shades:

  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    How the hell did VW not make it????

    No diesels in 2007.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    How the hell did VW not make it????

    No diesels in 2007.

    So, VW still makes mostly small cars and small SUV's.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    But VW doesn't sell them here. What they do sell here are exceptionally heavy compact and midsize cars with gas-thirsty V6s and turbo-4s. The diesels once offset that, but not last year.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Days after the new MPG laws go into effect GM cancels the new DOHC V8. My prediction is that we will see super or turbo charging of the V6 to get the higher power needed for the lux segment with better mpg than the V8. Perhaps even diesel in the future for STS??
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Turn out the lights for Cadillac. :sick:
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    Turn out the lights for Cadillac

    Yes and no. Both BMW and Mercedes are being fined for not meeting the MPG standards of 20 years ago in 2007. If our government is really serious about raising mpg then they will also have to meet it. This may, and probably will, mean that they will also be making choices on powertrains in the future. As in the 70's we will be seeing reduction in engine sizes and more expensive means of raising HP such as turbo/super chargers.

    I just hope GM had not started tooling yet and blown a bunch of needed cash.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Ah, so this is what goes on at GM headquarters:



    Well, maybe not all is lost. Perhaps GM could ask Hyundai to make some DOHC V8s for them?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    December Retail Sales up 1.5 Percent; Retail Car Deliveries Up 15 Percent
    means retail truck sales down!
    Combined Retail Share For The Past Five Months Up Year-Over-Year
    Chevrolet Malibu Retail Sales Up 99 Percent; Cadillac CTS Up 51 Percent In December
    Enclave, OUTLOOK and Acadia Crossovers Exceed 14,000 Retail Sales In December; GM's Mid-Utility Crossover Segment Up 275 Percent
    Dealer Inventories Down 147,000 Vehicles Year-Over-Year

    December Performance Highlights:

    Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, GMC and Saturn divisions saw retail increases year-over-year
    GM's retail car deliveries increased 15 percent based on the strength of the all-new Chevrolet Malibu, 2008 Cadillac CTS and fuel-efficient Chevrolet Aveo, Cobalt, Pontiac G5 and G6. Aveo sales were up 82 percent
    Chevrolet Impala and Malibu combined were 24,000 retail sales, the best Chevrolet mid-car month since July 2006
    Enclave, OUTLOOK and Acadia crossovers exceeded 14,000 retail sales; GM's mid-utility crossover segment was up 275 percent. Enclave had a record month.
    Chevrolet Silverado, Avalanche and GMC Sierra full-size pickups built retail market share with more than 69,000 vehicles sold
    Retail vehicles, as a percent of total deliveries, increased more than 5 percentage points to 80 percent
    Dealer inventories were down 147,000 vehicles year-over-year

    "The Malibu, CTS and Enclave have some of the fastest turn rates in the industry and we've seen Malibu retail sales increase nearly 100 percent compared with a year ago," LaNeve added. "I was particularly encouraged to see that even though we doubled Malibu sales and basically sold them as soon as they hit dealer lots, the Impala also had a terrific month.

    2007 Performance Highlights:

    Dealer inventories were at their lowest level going into January in 13 years
    GMC and Saturn divisions had total and retail increases for the year
    Enclave, OUTLOOK and Acadia crossovers exceeded 122,000 retail sales; GM's mid-utility crossover segment was up 333 percent retail
    Daily rental sales were reduced 108,000 vehicles; GM was at its lowest level of daily rental sales in 9 years (about 596,000 vehicles), while significantly boosting content and resale value. Commercial/government fleet sales were up about 5,000 vehicles
    Anticipated retail share stabilized at about 21 percent
    Retail vehicles, as a percentage of total deliveries, increased 1 percentage point to 74 percent
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    What is that pic bumpy ???

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,043
    I forget the name but they were used during mid evil times to throw large objects during wars at castles. Has a counterweight which really could throw heavy objects far.

    Some make them today and throw old f ridges and cars for fun just to see them work.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    My prediction is that Cadillac will just use the same 6.2L V8 from the Corvette for its high performance models. There is also a 6.2 OHC V8 engine debuting in 2011 that can be used. However, it is clear that the 3.6L DOHC DI V6 will be Cadillac's primary engine for the STS/DTS replacement.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    You're thinking of a trebuchet, but the pics are of a large wooden rabbit.
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