Hybrid technology can be applied to diesel, ethanol, biodiesel, whatever: things like idle-shutoffs and regenerative braking are not and don't need to be exclusive to gasoline engines.
Yes, I agree. However with hybrids we're being enviro "friendly" at the cost of being enviro-unfriendly in a different way, considering the batteries used for hybrids are still toxic and noone has yet to find a totally safe way to recycle it...
with hybrids we're being enviro "friendly" at the cost of being enviro-unfriendly in a different way, considering the batteries used for hybrids are still toxic and noone has yet to find a totally safe way to recycle it...
Very true, and even worse, I believe the hybrid is a "feel good" scam that saves no money, little fuel, and costs the planet dearly in the manufacturing process of those batteries even more than the cost to dispose of them. Someday, that piper will have to be paid.
".....We came away from this rather surprised. Frankly, we often look at GM’s top efforts and think "almost." Usually, the exterior looks great, but the interior is a letdown. Or the engine is great, but the transmission is clunky. Or the drivetrain is good, but the handling is insipid. The LaCrosse isn’t like that. There is essentially nothing significantly wrong with this car, if it is viewed through the eyes of the target customer. In other words, the LaCrosse is fully competitive with the Lexus ES350 and Acura TL. No excuses, no "almost." Whether the LaCrosse is better than an ES or a TL is a matter for another article, but the significant point is that anyone shopping for an ES or a TL could legitimately cross-shop the LaCrosse."
Unfortunately I think you hit it on the head. Disposal will be toxic. I think diesel and turbocharging, along with more efficient trannies will be the bigger payoffs.
The LaCrosse is an excellent car that will have FLAWED marketing strategy, in the same way old GM used to do. For example, The car comes with a 255hp 3.0 V-6 that has a mere 217 lb-ft as the standard and only engine in the CX and CXL. If you want the 280hp 3.6L engine, you have to get the top-of-the-line CXS. I really don't understand what this rip-off is about. The Avalon has one standard powerful engine. The ES350 has one powerful engine. Same goes for Maxima and Taurus. Is it fuel economy? No! Both engines deliver 17/27 mpg according to Buick's web site. So If GM wanted the LaCrosse to be a class-beater, why not offer the 3.6L as standard? Both engines are direct injection and have same tech features and the production cost difference is negligible. What's more, if you want AWD, it comes only with the weaker engine. Way to go, GM!
Yes - they should only offer the best trim model. The 3.6VVT is a much better engine to drive than the Camry's engine because you have to rev the bolts off of the Toyota to get its rated power.
But they punk themselves by making rental fodder and a base version that is a joke.
GM - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
".....The Avalon has one standard powerful engine. The ES350 has one powerful engine. "
Yes, but in similar trim packages, the Avalon and ES350 are MORE expensive, and NEITHER has available AWD. If you want AWD from Toyota, you step up to the GS350, and that is a full $13,000 MORE than the AWD Lacrosse. And get this; for $34,500 your ES350 comes with CLOTH SEATS!!!
And get this; for $34,500 your ES350 comes with CLOTH SEATS!!!
I'd imagine that at $34,500, a sunroof is optional, as well? Also, good luck finding one of those base models. I'm sure that just about every single one left the factory with leather and a sunroof and a myriad of other options, jacking up the price. If you wanted one of those "stripper" models, you'd have to special order it. And then you run the risk of having the factory reject the order!
My uncle ran into that issue when he wanted a cheap commuter car. He was interested in the Echo, but the only ones on the lot were loaded up to the point that a Corolla was about the same price. We asked about ordering one, and they said the factory would probably reject the order...because if my uncle decided not to buy the car, they didn't want to get stuck with something that was virtually sale-proof.
I'd be curious to see what the cloth seats in an ES350 look like. These days, leather is pretty much expected in any luxury/near luxury car, or even step-up models of more mass-market cars. So the concept of "luxury" cloth/velour, as was common back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, has become a bit of a lost art.
Back to the new LaCrosse for a moment...the post above was the first I'd heard mention of a 3.0 V-6. I was under the impression that as the base engine, they were going to slip in some 4-cyl! If so, that's DEFINITELY not the way to go, if Buick is trying to position itself against the likes of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. Okay, sure, Acura has made 4-cyl cars in the past, but I don't think anybody ever thought of them as luxury cars.
I'd be curious to see what the cloth seats in an ES350 look like. These days, leather is pretty much expected in any luxury/near luxury car, or even step-up models of more mass-market cars. So the concept of "luxury" cloth/velour, as was common back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, has become a bit of a lost art.
Well, there is cloth, and there is CLOTH. Toyota still sells wool blend upholstery in all its models in Japan, including the Celsior (the US model Lexus LS) and even the V-12 Century which is the flagship not sold anywhere else. Needless to say, i is not leather, but it is luxurious for sure, and does keep everybody comfortable. It is cool to sit on in the summer, and cozily warm in the winter. Plus, it will last forever without cracks or fraying or fading if treated half-decently.
I think the leather=luxury mindeset is quite peculiar to the US market, and some european markets.
To keep my post relevant to this forum, let me just say that I would like GM to offer some high end fabric options too. My personal experience with leather offered by GM is not good, since I have seen it start to deteriorate witihn a couple of years.
To keep my post relevant to this forum, let me just say that I would like GM to offer some high end fabric options too. My personal experience with leather offered by GM is not good, since I have seen it start to deteriorate witihn a couple of years.
I actually prefer a really nice cloth/velour interior to leather. I think one reason is that with leather, you still usually just get vinyl on the side bolsters, backrests, and other spots of the seat, so that gives the car a mis-matched look, especially as it ages. Plus, with leather, they usually just cover the door panels in vinyl as well, and that gives the car a somewhat plain, stark look. With cloth seats, they'll usually put matching cloth on the door panels, which helps give the car a more plush, luxurious look. Although I guess in certain textures and colors, you could end up with an interior that resembles a Louisiana cathouse!
I see the Hyundai Genesis as the closest competitor to the LaCrosse. A loaded CSX will cost you about $38k and you can get a loaded Genesis for about $37K. I think the Genesis is better looking than the LaCrosse or the ES350 and has a better warranty. And Hyundai is less likely to go broke as they are gaining as the other two are losing market share.
How many ES actually are made with cloth seats? I don't think I have ever seen one.
E-class can still be had with cloth in non-NA markets...S-class could be had with an old fashioned woolcloth through the 90s, but I don't think so anymore, although I do think the base Euro S-class can he had with a leather/cloth combo.
It is cool to sit on in the summer, and cozily warm in the winter. Plus, it will last forever without cracks or fraying or fading if treated half-decently.
I think the leather=luxury mindeset is quite peculiar to the US market, and some european markets.
To keep my post relevant to this forum, let me just say that I would like GM to offer some high end fabric options too. My personal experience with leather offered by GM is not good, since I have seen it start to deteriorate witihn a couple of years.
Agree on above.
Would also agree that good quality fabric should be offered by GM in more vehicles. Last 2 GMs I had, Suburban and Caprice wagon, both had fabric and it wore very well over many years of use.
Am stuck with leather in current Acura TL. No option for fabric. Although seats are heated for winter use, there still is the initial first few minutes of discomfort on cold winter days. And, on hot summer days, seats are clammy until air cond kicks in. In contrast, the fabric seats in my Ody are comfortable year round.
Are there any published road tests of new Lacrosse?
I agree that Americans have a weird sense of "luxury", thinking that fabric = cheap. European cars have very, very nice fabric seats that can outclass American and even some Japanese standard leather. Japanese cars, Crown and above in particular, have very smooth high quality fabric.
If any, GM's biggest problem here is offering neither good quality fabric nor good quality leather, except in a few models. I personally find the "Nuance" leather overhyped, as it's nowhere as smooth as I see in a Lexus or even a BMW.
Ironically, some Opels do offer nice fabric upholstery. Why not NA models?
Ironically, some Opels do offer nice fabric upholstery. Why not NA models?
My guess is there's just too much of a "leather = luxury" mindset in the US. The second someone tried to offer an upscale car or trim level with cloth, no matter how nice, most people would just turn their nose up at it and whine that it's not leather!
I think leather used to have a sort of mystique to it back when it was limited to luxury cars. For example, back in the 1970's, usually only Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Imperials had leather, but even here, there was a wide variety of luxurious cloths available, as well. But then, leather started getting more common. I think it was Chrysler that really started bringing leather to the masses, in cars like the Cordoba and Magnum, and even the LeBaron and Diplomat!
Nowadays, you can get leather in something like a Cobalt, so IMO, it's really lost its charm.
I think it was Chrysler that really started bringing leather to the masses, in cars like the Cordoba and Magnum, and even the LeBaron and Diplomat!
Ah, memories of fine Corinthian leather! I wonder how many Corinthians were killed for each interior? How big is one Corinthian anyway compared to a cow and what do you feed it?
Of course all my current cars have OK cloth except the Celica which has OK leather. It came that way. I would have preferred cloth - especially because it's a convertible! Nothing like leaving black leather out in the sun and trying to sit down....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Here in Texas, it gets too darn hot for leather. I've had it in a couple cars and had to put a towel on the seat bottom before getting in. Now if the seats were heated and cooled, like in the CTS, that would be different . . . I may go for that.
Nothing like leaving black leather out in the sun and trying to sit down....
Yeah, I get that with my '67 Catalina convertible...except that it's black vinyl, rather than leather, which is probably even worse for burning you! The only way they could have made it worse would be to put those little metal buckles in the pattern, like what they started doing in the 1970's.
Ow! Yeah, vinyl is worse than leather that way. I remember many times in our old Tempest how we'd make sure there were towels around to cover the seat. No wonder those terry cloth slip covers were popular back then.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
It's about moneymaking. Vinyl is even cheaper than cloth, so now they sell "leather" seats with vinyl all over the place, and "leatherette" seats which are really vinyl. At a premium to cloth seats. What a great scam.
Personally I hate leather and would be VERY interested in some sort of high-end premium cloth, which not many manufacturers do in the US.
Vinyl is even cheaper than cloth, so now they sell "leather" seats with vinyl all over the place, and "leatherette" seats which are really vinyl. At a premium to cloth seats. What a great scam.
You want to hear a real scam? Back in the 1970's, sometimes vinyl was actually the UPGRADE!! I had a 1979 Newport with a vinyl seat, and thought it was the bare bottom. Until I found an old sales brochure, and it showed cloth as being the cheapest, then the vinyl I had being the upgrade, and then above that, was a nicer, thick, corduroy type of cloth.
Ditto my old 1980 Malibu. It had vinyl seats, so again I thought it was the stripper. But it turns out that cloth was the cheapest, with vinyl being the upgrade. If you wanted something nicer, you got a Malibu Classic, which again came with standard cloth (which I thought actually looked pretty nice) and optional vinyl.
And these weren't isolated incidents. Leave it to the domestics, I guess, to find a way to make cloth cheaper than vinyl. :P
I much prefer cloth to leather but I'm an occasional weaver. Toyota (and Suzuki) got its start as a loom manufacturing company and the loom division stills make a lot of big honking looms and fabric for themselves and other automakers.
What's really nasty is not only black vinyl seats, but to sit on the seatbelt buckle while wearing shorts after it's been exposed to the sun all day! Owwweeee!!! :surprise:
One thing I noticed is that people with kids sometimes want spill-proof seats. I know a guy who got leather in his Toyota minivan just for that reason.
Unfortunately, it's hard to spill-proof cloth, but if someone can come up with a fairly spill-proof cloth as an option, I bet it'd sell REAL well in the Traverse.
I prefer fabric seats, as leather is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter here in central Illinois. Bun warmers do help with the the latter, but not all cars have them.
I still have a '85 SAAB 900 and its fabric seats have held up amazingly well. This is the base 900, and its seat upholstery seems to hold up better than the higher line 900S and 900 Turbo models. Except for minor wear on the driver's seat, they almost look unused - and this is after 25 years in April 2010. The headliner had to be replaced once, but that only cost around $125 to have that done.
The SAAB lived through 2 kids without any damage to the fabric, so I guess I'm lucky. And, I also have a '70 Volvo with fabric seats, and they've held up very well too. I guess it comes down to the quality of the fabric used, as previously stated, European's don't necessarily view fabric as cheap.
Cooterbfd, Have you noticed that the interiors of the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, Chevy Equinox, and GMC Terrain have similar center console designs? It would have been fine if they were the same brand. But it's three different brands we are talking about. I have no doubt those interiors have good quality compared to GM of yore, but it shows that somewhere along the way, GM was really running short of money.
....noticed that the interiors of the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, Chevy Equinox, and GMC Terrain have similar center console designs? It would have been fine if they were the same brand. But it's three different brands we are talking about...but it shows that somewhere along the way, GM was really running short of money.
The Equinox and the Terrain are the same vehicle so the family resemblance is to be expected but the LeCrosse has a completely different design and dimensions - it doesn't look anything like the other two "twins".
But yes, GM was short on money, no doubt about it.
I just checked again.. Yes it is different, but note how the control panels are the same.. a big knob surrounded by several buttons, two smaller knobs on both sides, wing-like air vents.
SEOUL, South Korea – Hyundai Motor says second-quarter profit rose 48 percent from a year earlier despite a decline in sales.
Hyundai Motor Co. said in a regulatory filing it earned 811.85 billion won ($650 million) in the three months ended June 30. It posted net profit of 546.9 billion won a year earlier.
Let's hope GM's upcoming product improvements can be viewed as positively as the work Hyundai has done over the last 10 years. It really shows for Hyundai, not yet for GM.
Let's hope GM's upcoming product improvements can be viewed as positively as the work Hyundai has done over the last 10 years. It really shows for Hyundai, not yet for GM.
When Hyundai first came out with the ten year warranty in 1999 there were all kind of jokes about how Hyundai needed it, and comments that it was just a marketing scheme that would only last a year. But by 2003, Hyundai had tied Honda in reliability per JD Power. Profit is up.
Could GM afford to back their cars and trucks like that? (GM really isn't that far off - a couple of years on the basic and 5 on the drivetrain and some miles on the basic).
That is exactly why I would buy a Genesis over a LaCrosse. Better car company. Period.
Shame, ain't it?? :sick:
Regards, OW
P.S.
Do you want a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro? You'd better be prepared to offer the dealer more money than the MSRP requires, and you'd better be willing to wait. Various reports have indicated that General Motors can't build the reborn bow tie pony car fast enough to quench public demand. The Camaro was originally built from 1967 to 2002; the 2010 model marks the brand's rebirth.
Another decision that should have been made 5 years ago. These cars are desirable, just like the G8 was until they over priced it, killed the brand and now will not continue a good car under another brand. Yet another nail...
If selling a ticket to a concert or sporting event at a price above face value is "ticket scalping" and potentially either illegal or unethical, why isn't selling a Camaro above sticker price considered to be "car scalping," and potentially either illegal and/or unethical? In other words, is there really any significant difference between a concert ticket and a car that would make any material difference when one or both sell above the stated "face value," or "sticker price?"
In other words, is there really any significant difference between a concert ticket and a car that would make any material difference when one or both sell above the stated "face value," or "sticker price?"
Yes there is. Ticket sellers don't have a massive lobbying firm on their side. Car dealers do.
Ticketmaster would be the exception to your comment - they are active lobbying in every country they are in. Widely hated too.
People have been known to "scalp" high demand new cars by getting on a waiting list, getting the car, and then flipping them on eBay for a profit over MSRP.
Circlew, if the market will bear it, you can't really blame the dealers for trying to get some additional markup over the suggested retail. Some people will pay the premium. It can backfire, but I'm not sure how much of a morality label you can put on it.
they ran an article on the launches of new cars today and claimed the G8 has quality problems in the owner's eyes. I went and checked the owner's reviews and found just the opposite to be true. The G8 may be the most satisfying car to it's owners I've ever researched. 9.3 based on 104 reviews. The only category pulling it down from a 10.0 is gas mileage from the 6 liter being only 24 on the hwy.
There is a strictly business risk, although most dealers have no morals, anyway. The price should be the price. No blame intended just greed uncovered.
Knowing any dealer that does this, most honest/savvy customers will steer clear when shopping for a car. I do every time.
Like the G8 and the GTO before it, the local dealer lost a sale from me forever going forward by MAP pricing those cars. The G8 MAP didn't even last a year. What did they really gain? Now, 2008 new leftover GT's are going for $5K less than the original sticker ($8K less than the dealer MAP).
That's all fine if you're going to keep it for 10 years. But people looking at a 2 yr old Santa Fe loose the 10 yr warranty, while those looking at the Equinox keep their powertrain warranty
But the fact that they have such a long warranty, and have kept it for years now, indicates that Hyundai is putting their money where mouth is. Is GM's quality good enough to let them do the same? The long warranty got a lot of people looking at Hyundais that wouldn't have considered them otherwise.
On Camaro - Car and Driver did a Comparo recently of Challenger, Camaro and Mustang. They rated Challenger third, Camaro second and Mustang first.
Having owned a Mustang GT fastback years ago as well as Firebirds, I would buy the Mustang (if wife would let me) today. Car and Driver did not like the lack of visibility that Camaro's chopped top and smallish windows created. Also, they said that the seating position was low. Mustang rated better in driver visibility. Of course, Mustang rated higher in other attributes over Camaro by C&D.
What's going to happen when the Genesis Coupe gets into these comparisons? It seems like a legitimate contender to some of them, and would probably directly compete with their V6 trims.
Comments
Yes, I agree. However with hybrids we're being enviro "friendly" at the cost of being enviro-unfriendly in a different way, considering the batteries used for hybrids are still toxic and noone has yet to find a totally safe way to recycle it...
Very true, and even worse, I believe the hybrid is a "feel good" scam that saves no money, little fuel, and costs the planet dearly in the manufacturing process of those batteries even more than the cost to dispose of them. Someday, that piper will have to be paid.
".....We came away from this rather surprised. Frankly, we often look at GM’s top efforts and think "almost." Usually, the exterior looks great, but the interior is a letdown. Or the engine is great, but the transmission is clunky. Or the drivetrain is good, but the handling is insipid. The LaCrosse isn’t like that. There is essentially nothing significantly wrong with this car, if it is viewed through the eyes of the target customer. In other words, the LaCrosse is fully competitive with the Lexus ES350 and Acura TL. No excuses, no "almost." Whether the LaCrosse is better than an ES or a TL is a matter for another article, but the significant point is that anyone shopping for an ES or a TL could legitimately cross-shop the LaCrosse."
Unfortunately I think you hit it on the head. Disposal will be toxic. I think diesel and turbocharging, along with more efficient trannies will be the bigger payoffs.
What's more, if you want AWD, it comes only with the weaker engine. Way to go, GM!
But they punk themselves by making rental fodder and a base version that is a joke.
GM - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Yes, but in similar trim packages, the Avalon and ES350 are MORE expensive, and NEITHER has available AWD. If you want AWD from Toyota, you step up to the GS350, and that is a full $13,000 MORE than the AWD Lacrosse. And get this; for $34,500 your ES350 comes with CLOTH SEATS!!!
You should remind the new C.E.O. this is getting real old.
Regards,
OW
I'd imagine that at $34,500, a sunroof is optional, as well? Also, good luck finding one of those base models. I'm sure that just about every single one left the factory with leather and a sunroof and a myriad of other options, jacking up the price. If you wanted one of those "stripper" models, you'd have to special order it. And then you run the risk of having the factory reject the order!
My uncle ran into that issue when he wanted a cheap commuter car. He was interested in the Echo, but the only ones on the lot were loaded up to the point that a Corolla was about the same price. We asked about ordering one, and they said the factory would probably reject the order...because if my uncle decided not to buy the car, they didn't want to get stuck with something that was virtually sale-proof.
I'd be curious to see what the cloth seats in an ES350 look like. These days, leather is pretty much expected in any luxury/near luxury car, or even step-up models of more mass-market cars. So the concept of "luxury" cloth/velour, as was common back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, has become a bit of a lost art.
Back to the new LaCrosse for a moment...the post above was the first I'd heard mention of a 3.0 V-6. I was under the impression that as the base engine, they were going to slip in some 4-cyl! If so, that's DEFINITELY not the way to go, if Buick is trying to position itself against the likes of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. Okay, sure, Acura has made 4-cyl cars in the past, but I don't think anybody ever thought of them as luxury cars.
Well, there is cloth, and there is CLOTH. Toyota still sells wool blend upholstery in all its models in Japan, including the Celsior (the US model Lexus LS) and even the V-12 Century which is the flagship not sold anywhere else. Needless to say, i is not leather, but it is luxurious for sure, and does keep everybody comfortable. It is cool to sit on in the summer, and cozily warm in the winter. Plus, it will last forever without cracks or fraying or fading if treated half-decently.
I think the leather=luxury mindeset is quite peculiar to the US market, and some european markets.
To keep my post relevant to this forum, let me just say that I would like GM to offer some high end fabric options too. My personal experience with leather offered by GM is not good, since I have seen it start to deteriorate witihn a couple of years.
I actually prefer a really nice cloth/velour interior to leather. I think one reason is that with leather, you still usually just get vinyl on the side bolsters, backrests, and other spots of the seat, so that gives the car a mis-matched look, especially as it ages. Plus, with leather, they usually just cover the door panels in vinyl as well, and that gives the car a somewhat plain, stark look. With cloth seats, they'll usually put matching cloth on the door panels, which helps give the car a more plush, luxurious look. Although I guess in certain textures and colors, you could end up with an interior that resembles a Louisiana cathouse!
E-class can still be had with cloth in non-NA markets...S-class could be had with an old fashioned woolcloth through the 90s, but I don't think so anymore, although I do think the base Euro S-class can he had with a leather/cloth combo.
I agree with your post.
I think the leather=luxury mindeset is quite peculiar to the US market, and some european markets.
To keep my post relevant to this forum, let me just say that I would like GM to offer some high end fabric options too. My personal experience with leather offered by GM is not good, since I have seen it start to deteriorate witihn a couple of years.
Agree on above.
Would also agree that good quality fabric should be offered by GM in more vehicles. Last 2 GMs I had, Suburban and Caprice wagon, both had fabric and it wore very well over many years of use.
Am stuck with leather in current Acura TL. No option for fabric. Although seats are heated for winter use, there still is the initial first few minutes of discomfort on cold winter days. And, on hot summer days, seats are clammy until air cond kicks in. In contrast, the fabric seats in my Ody are comfortable year round.
Are there any published road tests of new Lacrosse?
If any, GM's biggest problem here is offering neither good quality fabric nor good quality leather, except in a few models. I personally find the "Nuance" leather overhyped, as it's nowhere as smooth as I see in a Lexus or even a BMW.
Ironically, some Opels do offer nice fabric upholstery. Why not NA models?
My guess is there's just too much of a "leather = luxury" mindset in the US. The second someone tried to offer an upscale car or trim level with cloth, no matter how nice, most people would just turn their nose up at it and whine that it's not leather!
I think leather used to have a sort of mystique to it back when it was limited to luxury cars. For example, back in the 1970's, usually only Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Imperials had leather, but even here, there was a wide variety of luxurious cloths available, as well. But then, leather started getting more common. I think it was Chrysler that really started bringing leather to the masses, in cars like the Cordoba and Magnum, and even the LeBaron and Diplomat!
Nowadays, you can get leather in something like a Cobalt, so IMO, it's really lost its charm.
Ah, memories of fine Corinthian leather! I wonder how many Corinthians were killed for each interior?
Of course all my current cars have OK cloth except the Celica which has OK leather. It came that way. I would have preferred cloth - especially because it's a convertible! Nothing like leaving black leather out in the sun and trying to sit down....
Yeah, I get that with my '67 Catalina convertible...except that it's black vinyl, rather than leather, which is probably even worse for burning you! The only way they could have made it worse would be to put those little metal buckles in the pattern, like what they started doing in the 1970's.
Personally I hate leather and would be VERY interested in some sort of high-end premium cloth, which not many manufacturers do in the US.
You want to hear a real scam? Back in the 1970's, sometimes vinyl was actually the UPGRADE!! I had a 1979 Newport with a vinyl seat, and thought it was the bare bottom. Until I found an old sales brochure, and it showed cloth as being the cheapest, then the vinyl I had being the upgrade, and then above that, was a nicer, thick, corduroy type of cloth.
Ditto my old 1980 Malibu. It had vinyl seats, so again I thought it was the stripper. But it turns out that cloth was the cheapest, with vinyl being the upgrade. If you wanted something nicer, you got a Malibu Classic, which again came with standard cloth (which I thought actually looked pretty nice) and optional vinyl.
And these weren't isolated incidents. Leave it to the domestics, I guess, to find a way to make cloth cheaper than vinyl. :P
http://www.autospies.com/news/2010-Buick-LaCrosse-CXS-Test-Drive-Lexus-Placed-On- -Notice-45983/
http://jalopnik.com/5314666/2010-buick-lacrosse-first-drive
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q3/2010_buick_lacrosse_cxs-short_take_- road_test
Unfortunately, it's hard to spill-proof cloth, but if someone can come up with a fairly spill-proof cloth as an option, I bet it'd sell REAL well in the Traverse.
I still have a '85 SAAB 900 and its fabric seats have held up amazingly well. This is the base 900, and its seat upholstery seems to hold up better than the higher line 900S and 900 Turbo models. Except for minor wear on the driver's seat, they almost look unused - and this is after 25 years in April 2010. The headliner had to be replaced once, but that only cost around $125 to have that done.
The SAAB lived through 2 kids without any damage to the fabric, so I guess I'm lucky. And, I also have a '70 Volvo with fabric seats, and they've held up very well too. I guess it comes down to the quality of the fabric used, as previously stated, European's don't necessarily view fabric as cheap.
Not too shabby!
Have you noticed that the interiors of the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, Chevy Equinox, and GMC Terrain have similar center console designs? It would have been fine if they were the same brand. But it's three different brands we are talking about. I have no doubt those interiors have good quality compared to GM of yore, but it shows that somewhere along the way, GM was really running short of money.
///////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
The Equinox and the Terrain are the same vehicle so the family resemblance is to be expected but the LeCrosse has a completely different design and dimensions - it doesn't look anything like the other two "twins".
But yes, GM was short on money, no doubt about it.
http://www.gmc.com/terrain/terrain/index.jsp?pvideo=false
http://www.buick.com/vehicles/2010/lacrosse/gallery.do
Hyundai Motor Co. said in a regulatory filing it earned 811.85 billion won ($650 million) in the three months ended June 30. It posted net profit of 546.9 billion won a year earlier.
Let's hope GM's upcoming product improvements can be viewed as positively as the work Hyundai has done over the last 10 years. It really shows for Hyundai, not yet for GM.
If you want total spill-proof, vinyl and the parachute-like (or is it swimear?) material are the only ways...
The Hyundai warranty on a 2010 Santa Fe is:
Basic: 5 yr. / 60,000 mi.
Drivetrain: 10 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Roadside: 5 yr. / Unlimited mi.
Rust: 7 yr. / Unlimited mi.
Compared to the 2010 Equinox:
Basic: 3 yr. / 36,000 mi.
Drivetrain: 5 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Roadside: 5 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Rust: 6 yr. / 100,000 mi.
When Hyundai first came out with the ten year warranty in 1999 there were all kind of jokes about how Hyundai needed it, and comments that it was just a marketing scheme that would only last a year. But by 2003, Hyundai had tied Honda in reliability per JD Power. Profit is up.
Could GM afford to back their cars and trucks like that? (GM really isn't that far off - a couple of years on the basic and 5 on the drivetrain and some miles on the basic).
Shame, ain't it?? :sick:
Regards,
OW
P.S.
Do you want a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro? You'd better be prepared to offer the dealer more money than the MSRP requires, and you'd better be willing to wait. Various reports have indicated that General Motors can't build the reborn bow tie pony car fast enough to quench public demand. The Camaro was originally built from 1967 to 2002; the 2010 model marks the brand's rebirth.
Another decision that should have been made 5 years ago. These cars are desirable, just like the G8 was until they over priced it, killed the brand and now will not continue a good car under another brand. Yet another nail...
If selling a ticket to a concert or sporting event at a price above face value is "ticket scalping" and potentially either illegal or unethical, why isn't selling a Camaro above sticker price considered to be "car scalping," and potentially either illegal and/or unethical? In other words, is there really any significant difference between a concert ticket and a car that would make any material difference when one or both sell above the stated "face value," or "sticker price?"
Regards,
OW
Yes there is. Ticket sellers don't have a massive lobbying firm on their side. Car dealers do.
People have been known to "scalp" high demand new cars by getting on a waiting list, getting the car, and then flipping them on eBay for a profit over MSRP.
Circlew, if the market will bear it, you can't really blame the dealers for trying to get some additional markup over the suggested retail. Some people will pay the premium. It can backfire, but I'm not sure how much of a morality label you can put on it.
Regards,
OW
Knowing any dealer that does this, most honest/savvy customers will steer clear when shopping for a car. I do every time.
Like the G8 and the GTO before it, the local dealer lost a sale from me forever going forward by MAP pricing those cars. The G8 MAP didn't even last a year. What did they really gain? Now, 2008 new leftover GT's are going for $5K less than the original sticker ($8K less than the dealer MAP).
The GTO was a flop as well.
Camaro, better watch out!!
Regards,
OW
But the fact that they have such a long warranty, and have kept it for years now, indicates that Hyundai is putting their money where mouth is. Is GM's quality good enough to let them do the same? The long warranty got a lot of people looking at Hyundais that wouldn't have considered them otherwise.
Having owned a Mustang GT fastback years ago as well as Firebirds, I would buy the Mustang (if wife would let me) today. Car and Driver did not like the lack of visibility that Camaro's chopped top and smallish windows created. Also, they said that the seating position was low. Mustang rated better in driver visibility. Of course, Mustang rated higher in other attributes over Camaro by C&D.