GM News, New Models and Market Share

smarty666

I never said I was looking at incentives only. I also mentioned fleet sales as well and among OTHER factors. I could say the same thing back at you, you can't look at the avg transaction price only!

If you want to look at another fact its market share, its been pretty stagnate for GM when if anything, it should be growing right now. They should be the ones profiting from Toyota's problems and decreased sales the most, since they are their biggest competitor, but they are not. Ford, Hyundai, and Nissan are profiting the most off of Toyota's woes.

andre1969

I think it is oversytled and dont't care for it at all. I would never buy it. The only Hyundai I would consider is the Azera, for 1or 2K more.

I like the Azera. One thing I like about it, and this is going to sound odd, but if you get the cloth seat model, it has sort of a subdued polka-dot pattern in it that makes me think a bit of an early 80's Olds 98!

I wonder though, if the Azera's going to get squeezed out? The Sonata seems a step up from the previous model. Even though there's no V-6 option anymore, it's a bigger, roomier car, with more standard power than before. And now, Hyundai has the Genesis.

circlew

No problem. I feel the same way about the regal. The last gen regal was more tasteful.

AFAIC, GM still misses the mark more times than they hit it. That leaves the door WIDE OPEN for the competition. I assume you are used to that by now. I sure am.

Regards,
OW

circlew

Well, my best friend's wife purchased hers last month because she thinks it looks like a Merc.

Either way, the styling makes you look at at from a whole different point of view. It is different without offending and it flows very nicely to hint at movement even at rest.

Let's put it this way: it's not a jelly bean like most of the competition. It has a very appealing personality as far as auto design goes, IMHO. GM just WISHES they could have such an attractive design at the price point.

Malibu is nice but why does it take YEARS to develop it into a true "gaga mobile" like they used to in the '60's? (The 'vette STILL remains the only true rational development effort for a car at GM and trucks. Cars designs have HUGE spider webs draping the design tables in Detroit!) Because the accountants and now the government are in control. It ain't about the drive anymore at GM...hasn't been for decades. WAKE UP TEAM! :P

Regards,
OW

circlew

Hmm, it't doesn't look bad to me. Perhaps you need to take another look?



Regards,
OW

circlew

Good guess! I'll never drive a Regal because it is still boring afaic. The company is still executing akin to historical references.

Will it be cross shopped?? Funny, I see many Sonata drivers that are eligible to retire in a Buick...they just know when a deal is a deal. The Regal, as was the LaCrosse is a good start. Like the Malibu, it'll stay out there like a sitting duck while the competition eats it's lunch. The Sonata is developing quite nicely. I'll let you know when I drive the Turbo when it's available soon.

The new luxury has been determined. GM still operates in the past but you know how that goes. Same old Same old.

Regards,
OW

cooterbfd

Actually Andy, if you look at a VW CC, It looks like an Asian copy.

cooterbfd

".....I never said I was looking at incentives only. I also mentioned fleet sales as well and among OTHER factors. I could say the same thing back at you, you can't look at the avg transaction price only!"

No, but considering, that means incentives are approx 12-13% of trans price, which is about inline with the others. Considering that the fleet sales are generally lesser equipped models, and it is impressive that they are earning money. That may have most to do with the lesser expenses from the restructuring.

cooterbfd

And, seeing as it hits the same price point, where does the Lacrosse's sales fit into that ?

fho2008

Of what?

andre1969

Now that you mention it, Cooter, I can see a vague resemblance between the CC and the new Sonata. I stress VERY vague, though. And, since that CC seems inspired by the Mercedes CLS, that's probably why people say those Sonatas look like a Benz! Although I say they need to get their eyes checked. :P

Heck, a Ford looks like a Benz, if your eyesight is bad enough!

fintail

If they weren't the same color, there'd be no resemblance. Eek, that SLC has huge bumpers!

Wasn't there a Granada trim package that gave it rear quarter window louvers, kind of like the SLC? They should have used that one?

andre1969

There was a package called the ESS on the Granada, not sure what it was on the Monarch. I think that package might have gotten you the louvered windows.

cooterbfd

The sonata looks like a CC

lemko

Heck, give me the job. Detroit is only a little worse than Philly in all respects.

anythngbutgm

Hmmmm...









I don't know, I kinda see a similar profile and the sleek, coupelike profiles are sort of similar but I still find both of them very unique on their own. I think that is one of the draws that the Sonata has going for it right now is it does have a certain uniqueness and little styling touches that make it stand out from the typical CamCordima. The CC is just downright gorgeous IMO.

Also, isn't Hyundais current designer a former designer for Volkswagen?

lemko

As long as there are middle-aged secretaries, there will be Corolla sales. Wonder if Miss Jean Hathaway would now be driving a Corolla? Nah, that 1965 Dodge Coronet convertible is way cooler than any Toyota! :P

lemko

Yeah! Where are the future Harley Earls, Bill Mitchells, and Virgil Exners? I've seen the same thing in graphic design schools where everybody's work apes the professor's idea of design. I went to a senior design show at my undergraduate school and everybody's work looked disturbingly alike.

lemko

The Homer!

lemko

Well, my best friend's wife purchased hers last month because she thinks it looks like a Merc.





Really? I don't see it.

lemko

Dang! Which is which? I'm so confused! :confuse:

lemko

ESS = European Sport Sedan. Good thing they didn't use the initials for American Sport Sedan!

stever

Detroit is only a little worse than Philly in all respects.

Maybe. Maybe not.

"With fewer factories churning out products, inventories are smaller and sales incentives like rebates and low-interest financing are gradually declining. “They were nibbling at these issues before, a little bit here and a little bit there,” said Jeremy Anwyl, Edmund’s chief executive. “It’s just different now that they are in fighting shape.”

Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (NY Times)

smarty666

your right, it is impressive they are making any money at all, but at the slow rate at which they are, how long is it going to take to pay back all our hard earned tax payer bailout billions? a heck of a long time - oh wait, didn't GM say a few months back they already paid all their tax payer loans?

yeah, but your still missing the point and making excuses! if their incentive spending is much higher then the rest they still are costing less to buy. Those transaction prices were not that much difference from each other and they were the avg prices none the less. In some cases, GM is incentive spending 2-3 times what some competition is but the avg transaction price doesn't follow that 2-3 times more between the competition.

Its simple people, lower your incentive spending to match the foreign makes and lets see how that affects your sales! If they stay the same or increase, then your talking some good pat me on the backs!

fintail

Good one :shades:

I could see GM doing that though...

circlew

LaCrosse is not considered Luxury...only near.

Regards,
OW

dave8697

22,770,000 is the # of all gov workers. 1 in 7 works for the gov now. How can the other 6 of us pay for the unemployed, retired, illegals, our own soc sec, and for the gov worker making 129k or enen the 100k avg of all gov workers? On borrowed money is how.

Right now, out of the seven people from which one is a gov worker, how many of the other 6 in the private sector have good or dependable jobs? one or two? I can't imagine how our gov thought homeownership should be within reach of 60% of us. But the gov has such important work to do. They need to eliminate the happy meal. they need to shut down all drilling in the gulf. they need to subsidize the Volt, and they need to pass cap and tax. All on borrowed money.

berri

I agree that many govt things are stupid, but $100K ave salary - I doubt it, maybe some managers and senior professionals, or a few screwed up municipalities like in southern CA. Very few professions make that, not even airline pilots any more. In fact, some captains barely beat that in today's world. As for housing, it got out of hand for many reasons, but it really boils down to buyers not doing due diligence - paying too much, not considering rent vs mortgage cost. etc. Ultimately, Americans need to be responsible for their own actions instead of trying to find someone to blame. History seems to me to show that war gets our economy screwed up as well. We lost track of Al Qaeda and digressed into Iraq -went deep into hock over this mistake, accomplished little, just like Viet Nam IMHO. Prior, the federal budget was actually pretty much balanced believe it or not! I don't really expect any big economic turnaround until we start cutting back on these overseas expenses and stop being the world's policeman and charity provider. But I certainly agree with you that everyone from gov to business to individuals need to live within their means and dumb, or excess regulation does cost a lot more money than the politicians either know, or pretend not to.

circlew

Not that thing...this Merc!



Sheesh!

Regards,
OW

lemko

Sheesh! I was joking! I know what you meant. I still don't see much of a resemblance between the Sonata and the M-B unless you left the Benz on a giant stove too long and it started to melt!

plekto

Absuolutely. The new C class is gorgeous in a way that Hyundai probably never will understand.

The only issue is that it's not any better than a (upcoming) G25 or a TSX in terms of luxury, features, and quality. But it sure is priced as if it is worth a whole lot more than they are.

cooterbfd

"......yeah, but your still missing the point and making excuses! if their incentive spending is much higher then the rest they still are costing less to buy. Those transaction prices were not that much difference from each other and they were the avg prices none the less. In some cases, GM is incentive spending 2-3 times what some competition is but the avg transaction price doesn't follow that 2-3 times more between the competition. "

Yes, but GM sells far more trucks than say, Toyota, and the incentives on them are much higher (but so are the profit margins)

cooterbfd

Well, that's somebody's opinion. After driving it for a year, you could fool me that it is "near" luxury while a Hundee is luxury.

smarty666

Doesn't Ford sell more pick-ups then GM? If I recall correctly, the F-Series pick-ups sells the most each month then even the Camry and Accord do.

Ford and GM have always been the pick-up kings and still are. Only problem with that for them is, its going to hurt bad if and when gas prices go up to $4 bucks a gallon again and they are left to sit and rot on their lots for months on end, like they did back in 2008 when gas prices went through the roof. I remember how they couldn't even give their pick-ups and SUVs away when gas prices were that high.

tbone_rare

Ford sells more trucks than GM??? I could be wrong....I have been once or twice in my life...(laughing) Ford sells more trucks than Chevrolet. Ford sells more trucks than GMC. Ford does NOT sell more trucks than General Motors.

smarty666

Yes, I should have been more specific. I should have said on a 1 on 1 basis with Chevrolet. If you include GMC with Chevrolet then GM would sell more pick-ups. I was just making the point that month after the month, the Ford F-Series is the highest selling vehicle. Ford is the competitor to Chevrolet, they do not have a rebadged brand to compete with GMC like GM does so they are at a slight disadvantage in that regard.

andre1969

Ford sells more trucks than Chevrolet. Ford sells more trucks than GMC. Ford does NOT sell more trucks than General Motors.

I think there were a few times when the Ford F-series did manage to outsell the full-sized Chevy and GMC trucks combined. It was a rare occurrence, and don't ask me for specific years, but I think it has happened.

dieselone

I thought I red somewhere that the F series was slightly ahead of GM in total trucks through July of this year.

In the same article it listed the Mustang like 3 units ahead of the Camaro.

dieselone

Found a list on the WSJ

top 20 sales

Through July, the F series sold 290,794. GM sold 201,446 Silverado's and 67,518 GMC Sierra's. So through July, Ford has a 21,833 unit lead total.

anythngbutgm

Source: Truth about Cars

Government Motors: 11,910 + 34,664 = 46,574
Ford: 50,449

dieselone

Looks like the Malibu had a good July.

I'll be curious how the F150 will do when the Ford's new engine line up goes in them. The new 5.0L v8 will definitely be the cream of the crop. I wonder if many will pay more for the Ecoboost 3.5 in a pickup.

plekto

I wonder what the numbers would look like, though, if you removed all fleet, corporate, and government sales.

I suspect that the F150 is mostly being bought by companies and not individuals.

dieselone

I suspect that the F150 is mostly being bought by companies and not individuals.

Have you not visited a boat ramp or campground? Trust me, lots of Ford trucks being bought by regular Joe's. No doubt when it comes to trucks, the businesses buy lots of them. As mostly do mean 51/49 or something like 80/20?

Looks like my wife's employer has dumped GM, all company cars offered now are Fords.

dave8697

Malibu 5th best selling car in the US, but in comparisons, it comes in 6th place up against only other mid-size cars. Never makes any 10 best list.

All that hatin' on GM to no avail?

andre1969

Malibu 5th best selling car in the US, but in comparisons, it comes in 6th place up against only other mid-size cars. Never makes any 10 best list.

All that hatin' on GM to no avail?

Not necessarily. Those comparison tests usually put a lot of weight on performance, handling, economy, etc. So, perhaps an Accord is faster than a Malibu when pushed to its limit. Maybe an Altima handles better than a Malibu when pushed to the extreme. Maybe a Camry has the shortest stopping distance by a few feet. Maybe a Sonata has more standard airbags. Maybe a Fusion beats it out by 1 mpg on the combined cycle.

But, for a lot of people the Malibu still does everything they need it to, in a package that they find attractive, and at a good price.

tlong

Malibu 5th best selling car in the US, but in comparisons, it comes in 6th place up against only other mid-size cars. Never makes any 10 best list.

All that hatin' on GM to no avail?

There are a lot of unionists and patriots who will buy inferior products, in addition to the fleet buyers.

stever

There are a lot of unionists and patriots who will buy inferior products, in addition to the fleet buyers.

Maybe they aren't all that inferior.

Domestic Brands Take Top Spots in American Customer Satisfaction Index (Edmunds Daily)

tlong

That's great, but initial satisfaction is not equal to product quality. It is one dimension. GM in particular has had a lot of issues at 75K, 100K, 125K miles. Interesting that Caddy and Buick are good in the survey, and Chevy (the GM volume brand) is way down the list. Let's see how the newer products age. It is possible that the corner has been turned, but the data are not all there yet.

cooterbfd

"I suspect that the F150 is mostly being bought by companies and not individuals. "

And why would that matter? Companies generally run these vehicles into the ground. Yes, they aren't very well optioned, most get an auto, A/C and a stereo, but where I work they also get upfitted with utility bodies, "bread boxes" or aerial lifts. And we get 10-15 years out of them.

Anyway you look at it, that is a GOOD sale for GM and Ford. These "fleet" purchases in NO WAY effect resale prices of the 1,2, or 3 yr old vehicles.

dieselone

And why would that matter? Companies generally run these vehicles into the ground. Yes, they aren't very well optioned, most get an auto, A/C and a stereo, but where I work they also get upfitted with utility bodies, "bread boxes" or aerial lifts. And we get 10-15 years out of them.

Anyway you look at it, that is a GOOD sale for GM and Ford. These "fleet" purchases in NO WAY effect resale prices of the 1,2, or 3 yr old vehicles.

I agree. Fleet sales really got a bad rap a few years ago, particularly rental fleets, as they flipped their inventory fast. So you'd have Impala's, GP's, Taurus's, G6's, etc. that were at auction within 6 months to a year. Now, everyone is keeping their fleets longer.

I don't think fleet trucks ever hit the auctions nearly as fast as cars do. Mainly because the rental companies don't buy many of them. The only issue that remains with fleet sales is from a profit margin stand point.

A friend of mine owns a masonry company. He still has late 80's pickups running around.