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Comments
I noticed a maker by the name of Honda paid attention to things like assembly quality, specifications of quality, such as gap tolerance 20 years ago.
Was funny noticing the massive panel gaps in the '08 Equionox the other day.
I compared it to a recent model Malibu, which had very tight gaps (welcome to the modern era GM!). How's that for balance.
Of course, GM is just copying Honda and doing what they did with the '12 Civic with the Malibu.
Check out the '13 Civic.
Biggest success and being bailed out from bankruptcy twice in recent history don't go together in my book.
Chrysler still leads AFTER being bailed out from bankruptcy twice..... would make your sentence more factual.
I think both were failures. I looked carefully at the AStra since I like those types of cars, and it just wasn't competitive. Perhaps if it had been priced 30% less.....
The last Full Size Caddy was the 2011 DTS (Deville Touring Sadan). Now they only make these cheezy small euro looking sports trash, i.e CTS, XTS, ATS, they may say Cadillac. But, they are not Caddies, too small and they look like hell!
GM must be out of their minds to take the Deville/DTS off their lineup. The DTS was their flagship car. Now the American Dream is gone. Even Lincoln took the Towncar off their lineup.
I belong to several large Cadillac forums and 1000's upon 1000's of Caddy lovers are sick and heartbroken over the end of Cadillac as we once knew it. When you saw a Caddy driving down the street, you could see it was a Caddy a mile away. All these new cars that Cadillac is making look like every other car. How can a limo be made and feel roomy if it's an XTS, etc;?
I have an 01' Deville that I try to keep in the best condition possible, I even put a brand new tranny into it. There is nothing left that is large, plush, powerful and comfortable like a Deville...NOTHING!
So, when I'm forced to get a "new" Caddy, it will be a 2011 DTS. But after that, then what? GM made a huge mistake taking the DTS off their lineup. So, that's it folks, Cadillac threw in the towel and are just making cars, not CADDIES.
So, take good care of your DTS/Deville. Everything else they make is garbage, I'm sure millions will agree. If GM did some real research, they would find they made a horrible mistake by removing the Deville.
:mad:
Looks like the DTS suffered the same fate as the Solstice/Sky... Too much much costs for too few sales...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_DTS
I always considered the DTS as the type of car a Cadillac should be...big, comfy, roomy, and luxurious. And at one point, that type of car was Cadillac's volume seller, as cars like the Eldorado and Seville were more niche products....and priced higher than the old DeVille!
But, it looks like few buyers really want that type of car anymore. Kind of a shame, as I'm one of those few. But, I can still find what I want in a Charger or 300. Unless those are slated for the chopping block as well in the near future!
Most of the buyers of those cars have already lived the "American Dream".
I don't know if we'll see another domestic v8 Luxury car. They'll likely be force fed 6 cylinders or some type of hybrid drive.
The European luxury makers have the ability to sell their expensive v8 vehicles all over the world. Lincoln and Cadillac currently don't have the cachet to pull that off. Heck, they can't even outsell them here in the states.
Plus no matter what a bunch of Cadillac enthusiasts say on a forum or owners club, there simply isn't enough of them or at least enough that would be willing to pay the the amount necessary GM would have to charge for a proper v8 luxury sedan.
I think GM answered the v8 question when they stopped development on the Northstar successor. Plus I don't think the OHV small blocks have the refinement necessary for an an expensive luxury car.
Didn't that start life as a DTS?
I think those could be safe for a while as the hemi v8 is needed for the trucks. But when the 300 is redesigned the v8 certainly could be axed depending on FE standards etc.
They are styled like a DTS, but I think they are built on some type of truck chassis. Heck it is just as tall as the 3/4 ton Suburban driving along side it.
Minivan is not dead. Chrysler/Dodge, Honda, Toyota rule in this segment. Mini-vans are far more practical, functional and efficient than are almost any SUV, big or small, from any manufacturer.
GM and Ford failed miserably with their minivan offerings. GM had the poorly designed dustbuster minivans and then later the failed Chevrolet Uplander.
Chrysler invented the minivan concept just as Ford invented the pony car concept with their Mustang.
Slightly modified. FFWD to 0:15.
Awesome! :shades:
That was at least 29 years ago such as the 84 Honda Prelude I owned. Before buying this car, checked out and drove offerings in same size, weight, engine from GM and others. The Honda was superior in every attribute - engine, smooth shifting manual trans, door/panel fit, quality of paint, interior, handling, brakes, steering, etc. As some would say today, I was "blown away". Test drove it by myself and was so excited that next day took my wife back for her to test drive and she too was "blown away". At the time, my wife and I owned a Chevrolet, Pontiac and VW. 84 Honda was first ever Japanese car by us.
Car magazines back in 1984 and earlier were extolling the virtues of Japanese brands over American and saying that Japanese had surpassed the Americans. Being mainly a GM guy, I became a believer when I looked at and tested the 84 Honda and compared to GM makes and others that I looked at. GM and Detroit slipped well behind the Japanese in the 80's and have been playing catch-up ever since.
I didn't know they were still making Metros in 2008.
Didn't that start life as a DTS?
Underneath it's a GM Kodiak/Top Kick medium duty truck frame and diesel engine. The body has the general styling cues of the DTS but it's designed to fit the truck frame. According to wiki, it uses Escalade headlights and door handles and STS tail lights.
I think a lot of guys with old Metros sitting around in their back 40 were surprised at how much they were able to sell them for. Even now the numbers seem a bit crazy - here's one in the UP. $1,000 for a '97 and it needs work. Well, maybe that's not such a bad price; I wouldn't part with my '97 Outback for twice TMV.
Site must be busy because it is ssssloooow.
The company had to sell Chrysler to a private equity firm, as it was an utter failure at understanding how to successfully compete in the American mass market.
I'm not sure they make THAT anymore either. :shades:
Cerberus appears to have understood how to compete in the American mass market even less than MB.
Look how much better the interiors and engines are now.
They sell better.
For us, that's a big Duh. For bean counters not so much.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/01/bankruptcy-cerberus-chrysler-business-autos-cer- berus.html
Cerberus was unwilling to put more money into the company
And we noticed.
Quayle is an intellectual giant compared to the moron now in the vp position.
980 affected.
The company began shipments of the luxury small crossover last week to about 2,200 U.S. Buick dealers, who sold eight in the first weekend. The vehicle is built only in South Korea and inventory is expected to be tight."
'13 Buick Encore expected to attract young buyers, empty nesters (Detroit News)
I still wonder if this would have been better off as a Chevy, at a lower price.
It may even sell well, but will they be incremental sales, or just steal a few more from the Regal?
And it wasn't as though Daimler sold Cerberus a healthy, thriving company. Daimler had already run Chrysler into the ground.
The Dodge Neon, Stratus, and Cirrus had more to do with running Chrysler into the ground than Daimler.
Daimler didn't buy a healthy thriving company; they were on the verge of a collapse, financial sector breakdown or not!
And yes, Daimler built a ton of lemons, mostly in the years of involvement with Chrysler.
Remember, the Neon, Stratus, and Cirrus made a lot of money for Chrysler because owners are forced to buy a lot of replacement MOPAR parts when they breakdown every 3 months. But after they get fed up with it, and get rid of it, there are no more Chrysler sales in those peoples futures.
And yeah, the company wasn't exactly Toyota-strong before the buyout. Remember the Simpsons episode when the Germans buy Mr. Burns' poorly maintained power plant? It was kind of like that. And some good did come of it - the 300.
Seems pretty clear that, like the other 2 domestics, they were already suffering from "domestic-itus" well before the MB union, or the problems all 3 domestics suffered simultaneously has to be one of history's most bizarre coincidences.
And how do you manage a walking zombie.... exactly?
I think Daimler and Cerebus got infected with the zombie plague by Chrysler, not the other way around.
There were almost no savings, besides re-using some old M-B tech on some Chryslers (Crossfire, 300C suspension, etc).
And recylcing old tech is not exactly cheap or effective.
Chrysler was a pretty healthy company when Daimler came along. Bob Eaton thought that consolidation in the auto industry was going to happen, so he sought out Daimler as a partner.
Was sold as a 'merger of equals', but was really a takeover by Daimler. Lots of culture clash and supervisory issues (remember, MB was but one unit of Daimler at the time).
It was thought by both companies that the synergy was there. Chrysler had almost zero int'l presence. MB didn't do trucks, SUV's or mini-vans.
And some of that stuff ended up hurting Chrysler, because incorporating the M-B tech into the Chrysler designs delayed the introduction of some of these new models.
For instance, the original plan was to replace the Intrepid, Concorde, and 300M with 2003 models. They were going to offer FWD, RWD, or AWD, and choice of 6-cyl and V-8 power. Dodge and Chrysler were going to each offer two models. One was going to be a larger, more upright traditional sedan, and the other, while still a sedan, would be a bit smaller and more low-slung.
Well, we did get the choice of V-6 or V-8 power. But we didn't get it until the spring of 2004, and then, only as the Chrysler 300 and C. It sold well at first, but remember, initially it had to fill the shoes of the old Intrepid, Concorde, AND 300M. And Dodge had nothing to offer. We also didn't get the AWD until later. And we didn't get the choice of upright or low-slung.
Even before that, they started cutting corners. For example, one of my friends had a 2002 Intrepid SE as a loaner, when his 2001.5 Passat had to go in the shop. Compared to my 2000 Intrepid (which was just a base model; they didn't start calling it SE until 2001), the loaner was missing something like 5 or 6 things, all in the name of cost cutting. I forget what all they were, but they included the rear sway bar, the tint on the windshield, the cloth and carpet on the door panels, a cheaper, built-in cupholder (the one on my 2000 retracted), and probably one or two other things.
Similarly, when the 2001 Stratus/Sebring came out, they seemed like they were cheapened, compared to the old Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze.
Hasn't that been one of the main complaints by car mags/reviewers/analysts over (at least) the last decade of Chrysler cars in general, up to the bailout?
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/53007/car_focus/how_daimler_chrysler- - - - _merger_failed.html
From the article...
"You had two companies from different countries with different languages and different styles come together yet there were no synergies. It was simply an exercise in empire-building by Juergen Schrempp," said Dave Healy, an analyst with Burnham Securities, referring to the then-Daimler-Benz chairman and why the merger failed. "Basically Daimler has now paid Cerberus to take Chrysler off its hands," Healy added.
Originally, the plan was for Chrysler to use Daimler parts, components and even vehicle architecture to sharply reduce the cost to produce future vehicles. But problems surfaced when Daimler's Mercedes-Benz luxury division, whose components Chrysler would use, was averse to contribute to Chrysler. Eventually, all Chrysler got were some steering and suspension components, a transmission and a diesel engine and few packages.
In return, Daimler had hoped that Chrysler would radically raise its standing in the North American auto market. But due to tough competition from Asian automakers, Chrysler fell short. Billed as a "merger of equals," the $36 billion deal turned out to be anything but, analysts said. Shortly, control of the combined company fell to Daimler Chairman Schrempp.
"Eaton panicked," Lee Iacocca, said. "We were making $1 billion a quarter and had $12 billion in cash, and while he said it was a merger of equals, he sold Chrysler to Daimler-Benz, when we should have bought them." And Daimler was an all-too-willing, if uninformed, partner, analysts said. The company underrated the competitive forces that would invade the North American car market and take market share from the domestic carmakers.
...
Chrysler sales slipped, prompting the German automaker to dispatch Zetsche to Detroit in 2000 to turn Chrysler around. Having returned Chrysler to profitability by the time he went back to head Daimler in 2006, Zetsche said last Monday that the sale "was a difficult task personally."
With Zetsche at the helm, Chrysler reported a $1.8 billion gain in 2005. But like other Detroit automakers, the company misread the market. With a heavy reliance on trucks and SUVs, skyrocketing fuel prices quickly dampened sales and Chrysler's profit melted into a $1.47 billion loss last year, culminating in Monday's announcement.
That sounds a lot like "domestic-itus" to me...
Yeah, I think it has. FWIW, I remember checking out a 300 when they first came out. Now this was just a base model with the 2.7, so it was nothing fancy. Still, compared to my 2000 Intrepid, or even my buddy's 2002 loaner, it was a big step down. Sure, it looked impressive, at a quick glance, with its bulked-up body lines and square-jawed front-end. But there was plastic galore on the inside. The seats looked like they were covered in some kind of lawn chair fabric, and the carpet was so cheap that they would've been better off just throwing in a rubber mat!
This thing, IMO, did NOT deserve the right to wear the Chrysler nameplate. Plymouth, perhaps...Savoy or Fury I at best! :P
The new twins are greatly improved IMO, a complete 180 as far as materials and build goes.
Oh, count me as one of the ones who was seriously disappointed when the first 300 showed up, because I was, and still am a very big fan of the 300M that Chrysler was offering in the late 90's/early 2k's. That car had presence and the interior was really nice for it's period. Visibility with the raised rear was really my only complaint, but that car still looks good today IMO.
I agree...I couldn't parallel-park my old Intrepid to save my life! In addition to that high rump, it also had a low hood that, even at 6'3", I couldn't see unless I leaned really far forward. It was also the first car I owned with thick roof pillars....they were probably pretty normal by 2000, but my previous car was a 1989 Gran Fury, which could be traced back to the '76 Volare!
When my Intrepid got totaled 3 years ago, my first impulse was to go out and buy another, or maybe a 300M or Concorde. But then I found a 2000 Bonneville for sale, which got me interested in GM's big FWD cars, but it was sold by the time I called about it. But then, I found my 2000 Park Ave Ultra, a little-old-lady owned car with only 56,000 miles on it, and it just seemed too good to pass up.
Results: 1 - Accord, 2- Fusion, 3- Kia Optima, 4 - Camry. Have to go to web site to see who finished 5 and 6. Altima, Sonata.