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GM News, New Models and Market Share



  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Yep. All they did for the G8 was swap the badges, move the steering wheel, and put a stunningly ugly front clip on it.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    Agree on the importation cost. Not sure if the side-impact would need to be addressed since you are getting rid of some the green-house / structure by having the truck features replace the standard sedan. I just feel the vehicle, if brought over,would better fit into the Chevy line-up instead of Poncho's. Again, if Lutz and crew are badging Pontiac offerings as serious alternatives to the entry- and mid-level BMWs and the like, how does the Ute fit in? Or am I mistaken and they are just pitching the G8, and maybe Soltice, as alternatives?

    Agree with bumpy too, all of these trace their lineage to the Commodore and the Lumina SS series. I read about the Ute years ago as well as the Lumina SS being should in the East and I believe Asia-Pacific regions. I actually talked to some GM gals / gals then, darn near begging them to bring these products over as the Impala SS and Elky. But John Moss & crew came to my rescue at SEMA with the Impala SS.

    A side article (I think Rock and especially Loren would appreciate this):
    2.0 Litre Camaro
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Read about the Camaro. Not a bad idea, considering the engine puts out 260hp. Do good for fuel econ. Then you can ramp up w/ the DI V-6, then the V-8. Anyway you look at it, you get performance.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048 news/

    click to see picture

    The Invicta, which is Latin for “invincible,” evolves Buick’s global design direction from the Riviera concept introduced last year in Shanghai. The Invicta show car was co-developed by GM design centers in North America and China to meet customers’ expectations equally in the world’s two largest automotive markets.

    “Buick’s global appeal created an opportunity for GM Design Centers to elevate our collaboration to new levels. Using our virtual reality centers in Warren, Mich. and Shanghai, designers fused the best ideas from both cultures during the development of the Invicta, ” said Edward T. Welburn, vice president, General Motors Global Design. “The result will set a new design standard for Buick, and it couldn’t have been achieved by one studio working in isolation. The Invicta represents another significant design milestone in Buick’s history.”

    Invicta draws inspiration from the Riviera concept with a modern and graceful exterior design matched by a sumptuous interior. Invicta pays homage to Buicks of the 1940s through the 1970s with its nostalgic sweepspear design cue, a curved line running the length of the car. The exterior also features Buick’s signature vertical chrome waterfall grille and a new look to its portholes. The Invicta interior will share Riviera’s ambient lighting feature and lavish design.

    Would somebody tell me ho">link titlew to post pics????
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    The easiest way to post a photo is to use the Img button at the bottom of the posting box when you compose your message. After you click that, paste the link of the URL where you photo resides. Then click the button again to close the photo code.

    If you need a place to host your photo, you can do that free on your CarSpace page using the Photo Album there.

    The help link explains it better.

    Please note that your links above are to the pages where the photos reside, and those links won't work to simply post the photos by themselves. You'll need the URL of the photo for that (often right-click > properties will give you the photo link).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Oldsmobile Returns! - Car News
    Oldsmobile fans rejoice! (Or revolt—we suspect most will choose revolt.) Your brand lives again, and you’ll never guess how.

    Nearly four years to the day that the final Oldsmobile rolled off the assembly line in Lansing, Michigan, comes word that Oldsmobile is back. More startling than the announcement itself is its origin—not from Lansing, not from Detroit, not from Michigan, not even from anywhere in North America.

    A statement from Tokyo, of all places, reports that Toyota has secured rights to the Oldsmobile name. Asked for comment, GM is remaining extremely tight-lipped on the issue at the moment while presumably trying to sort out internally what oversight allowed this to happen—and who to can for it.

    A Most Egregious Oversight

    Toyota officials have stated that GM’s copyright on the Oldsmobile brand name expired midway through 2006. In the midst of the constant corporate shuffling underway in the domestic automotive juggernaut, somehow responsibility for renewal slipped through the cracks and the name floated around untethered for almost a year before someone at Toyota noticed. The unsubstantiated—at this point—story is that the alert came from the astute nephew of a still-confidential executive, who works as a clerk in the U.S. Copyright Office.

    The Toyota exec saw an opportunity, and the rights to the name were scooped up by Toyota for a nominal re-filing fee—just $5000. As Toyota pushes upmarket—the Avalon and Highlander can both reach above $40,000, while a loaded Sequoia can eclipse $60,000—the question has been raised repeatedly just how much the American public is willing to pay for a vehicle with the same badge as a $12,000 Yaris. Toyota took note of the rapid failure of the Volkswagen Phaeton and does not wish to find itself in the same situation.

    Read about flash photos at to Bob Carter, general manager of Toyota USA, Oldsmobile will fill the gap between Toyota and the company’s luxury flagship brand, Lexus. “Oldsmobile is an established and respected luxury nameplate.” Carter says, “We fully realize this acquisition is unconventional, but the opportunity to immediately acquire over 100 years’ worth of brand recognition couldn’t be missed.

    “It’s a shame,” Carter said, “that a company with the proud history of Oldsmobile ever left the market, and we feel that Toyota can establish the same sort of staying power with the Oldsmobile brand as we have with Lexus and Scion.”

    A New Twist on the Same Oldsmobile Ideal

    Citing Oldsmobile’s greatest successes as a slightly upmarket and sportier alternative to its Chevrolet and Pontiac cousins, Carter said that the name will be applied to today’s American performance-oriented luxury vehicles—SUVs. Asked if the iForce V-8 in the Sequoia will be renamed Rocket for Oldsmobile applications, Carter scoffed. “Toyota is a company that looks forward, not back. The past can inspire us, but we can never relive it. We will not mire ourselves in bygone days.”

    And so Toyota is sticking with names from recent Oldsmobile history, so as not to alienate the young, upwardly mobile customers it is targeting. Bravada and Intrigue are names that will be familiar to the target demographic, affixed as they will be to the RAV4 and 4Runner SUVs, respectively
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Haha, remember what day it is on the calendar. ;)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    March Highlights

    Chevrolet Car Retail Sales Up 6 Percent

    Led By A 122 Percent Increase in Malibu and a 16 Percent Increase in Impala Sales

    Cadillac Retail Car Sales Up 22 Percent with a 43 Percent Increase in CTS and 6 Percent Increase in DTS

    Strong Retail Month at Saturn with Aura Up 25 Percent, Vue Up 18 Percent and Outlook Up 14 Percent, offsetting Ion

    Enclave, Acadia and Outlook Drive Mid-Utility Crossover Segment Up 45 Percent

    Saab Total Sales Up 12 Percent; GMC Total Sales Up 1 Percent

    Retail Share Remains Stable Despite Market Pressures; Fleet Sales Down 7 Percent Continued Strength of Malibu, Impala, CTS and Aura Driving Passenger Car Growth

    So GM car retail remained flat for March while everyone else is pretty much down. Fleet continues to drop. Ford down 14%. However GM was down 16% due to trucks and fleet.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    lol. Man! that's too much effort on a lie. and It's on Car and Driver site. ldsmobile_returns_car_news
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Hey, andre! Maybe you could buy the rights to the DeSoto name for a song!
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    Mixed news indeed '62.

    What do you hear of the on again / off again of the Northstar replacement? Currently it's off with no restart in site (or has something changed?). Will Caddy soldier on with the current versions, with the LS-series used for the wonder-mobiles in the fleet as is the case now? Wonder how this will play with the STS/DTS replacements?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Unless CAFE gets rescinded the V8 is dead. They get 300+ hp out of a V6 which will be plenty in this brave new world. For higher HP look for forced induction and hybrid motors to up performance.

    I do remember the 70's with greatly reduced hp in everything including the vette. That is what we have to look forward to.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Looks like AA is cutting out GM big time. They are able to keep shipping Toyota parts but not GM. I wonder how long before GM pulls the business.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    On the other hand we might actually NEED V-8s, no matter how anemic, just to get the cars to move. I remember my Dad's 1981 Ford Thunderbird Town Landau. It had a puny 255 cid V-8 you had to floor just to get it up a hill. Good God, let us not go back to the '70s in that respect. What a miserable decade for performance!

    The 1970s following the 1960s was like a hack comedian following the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    On the other hand we might actually NEED V-8s, no matter how anemic, just to get the cars to move. I remember my Dad's 1981 Ford Thunderbird Town Landau. It had a puny 255 cid V-8 you had to floor just to get it up a hill. Good God, let us not go back to the '70s in that respect. What a miserable decade for performance!

    No kidding, we don't want that. At the same time I don't know if we need 5000+ SUVs running 6 second zero to 60 and 15 second qtr mile ie. Sequia, Escalade.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think that the future has to be some sort of electric drive system which can be recharged overnight with a motor generator to provide a longer range when needed. For many people, their daily driving is less than 50 mile round trip, so a battery that can provide upwards of 50 miles before the motor generator kicks in would greatly increase the fuel economy (assuming that the electricity is generated by coal or better yet some green souce like wind or solar). The performance of the vehicle is not related to the motor-generator, but rather the batteries and electric drive. Sort of like the diesel electric locomotives.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    255 cid works out to 4.2 liters, hardly "puny". Compare the performance of that Thunderturd to, say, the LS430. The domestics were just plain incompetent in the 1970s.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Whoa, you can't compare the performance of a car from 1981 to a car that wasn't built until 10,12 yrs later. The T-Bird had a carb (one of those Variable venturi jobs???) whereas the LS is fuel injected. I will agree that the foot dragging the domestics did in the '70's WAS bad, but considering the way things were in the '50's and '60's w/ the musclecar wars (race on sunday, sell on monday) who could blame them for trying to keep that alive.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    My point was more about the engine size, but a comparison against a Benz 420SE would be more fair.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    Yeah, and with the job postings from the early part of the week, there currently never seems to be a dull moment at AA.

    One "good" thing about the strike is that it's mostly effecting the GM full-sizers, which are lagging in sales anyway due to the softening of the market. With the high inventory GM can withstand the hit, but I'm not sure how long. Hopefully they can burn off the inventory without having to have fire-sales. Also questionable is if this is going to effect the new 'Bu sales (I believe GM gets half-shafts from AA as well).

    Not really effecting us since GM is not a major customer, but we're getting a little slow on some things.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I guess AA can continue their strikes. GM is cutting truck production even with the units already lost due to strike.

    The company said the cuts mean it will make about 88,000 fewer pickups and
    50,000 fewer big SUVs this calendar year.

    GM said the exact number of layoffs will be worked out with its unions.
    Workers will get unemployment benefits and supplemental pay that total 80
    percent of their normal 40-hour gross pay, said GM spokesman Dan Flores.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors Corp. struggled to a $3.3 billion first-quarter loss, due
    in part to a weak U.S. market, a strike at a major supplier and
    plummeting sales of sport utility vehicles and pickups.

    The loss reported Wednesday for the January-March period, which amounted
    to $5.74 per share, also reflected one-time charges. It was much larger
    than the company’s loss of $42 million, or 7 cents per share, in the
    same quarter a year ago.

    GM said a two-month strike at American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings
    Inc. has cost it $800 million and 100,000 vehicles. The strike has
    affected 30 GM plants.

    GM’s loss included a $1.45 billion charge to reflect a change in the
    value of GM’s interest in GMAC Financial Services and $731 million to
    increase GM’s liability in Delphi Corp.’s ongoing bankruptcy.

    Excluding the one-time items, GM lost $350 million, or 62 cents per
    share, beating Wall Street’s expectations. Analysts surveyed by Thomson
    Financial had expected a loss of $1.60 per share.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    J.D. Power and Associates is reporting that a fair amount of import owners are opting for new Malibu’s as well. Nearly one-fifth, 19.8 percent, of all trade-ins for the new car were imports.

    This just proves GM and the domestics have a hard road ahead of them. As good as this vehicle is it only gets 20% trade ins from non domestic vehicles. It is doing better than it's plain Jane past but still should be getting higher conquest sales. It is in short demand and perhaps GM is sending more of them to traditional domestic strongholds and traditional import buying areas do not have them. Then again perhaps those areas that do sell mostly imports do not have the domestic dealers there to supply the demand?

    What is interesting is that Toyota conquest went from last (#12) to 7th while Honda stayed close to it's11th place. The Chevy is attracting more of the Toyota buyer than the Honda buyer. Nissan also jumped up a buncha spots. Hyundai also showed up on the list whereas it was not on the list before.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    They are known for bashing GM, and many other companys, including Toyota. But it makes you think how bad things could go.

    This company continues to dance around the fact that its North American vehicle operations are simply out of touch with the reality of what's going on in this market. With too many models, too many divisions and too many dealers, GM will continue to lose money hand over fist in North America, and it's simply unacceptable at this point. Where is the leadership? Where is the vision? Where is the outrage? When is somebody down at the RenCen going to stand up and say "This ain't working!" What the hell is the so-called board of directors doing and why do they continue to rubber stamp what's going on in GM's North American operations, quarter after quarter after quarter? It's one thing to keep re-aligning GM's divisions here in an attempt to streamline the operating structure because that all sounds good on paper, but unless and until they start cutting divisions, cutting the model overlaps among the divisions and cutting their dealers dramatically, this company will continue to do piss-poorly in the U.S. market. GM resolutely believes that things are going to get better in North America, and that's fine, a little optimism never hurt anyone. But this is ridiculous. Nothing fundamentally has changed that will eventually improve this situation. And I mean n-o-t-h-i-n-g. Dealers are still clamoring for more products so that they can do what, sell against other GM divisions in their local markets? Frickin' brilliant. All the great products in the world aren't going to matter one bit if GM can't do what needs to be done in their home market. At this point what's going on in the North American market lands squarely in the lap of Rick Wagoner. Fix it, Rick, because this situation is getting flat-out embarrassing. If not, then a regime change will be in the offing long before you're ready to retire. - PMD
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Today, with GM’s report of a $3.3-billion net loss for the first
    quarter, the Ford-outperforming-GM drumbeat will likely grow a bit

    Things are never quite as simple as they seem, however.

    GM actually reported a 70% increase in pretax profits on its worldwide
    automotive business, to $392 million in the first quarter vs. $231
    million in the same period a year ago, not counting some big write-offs.

    Basically, GM is suffering from a triple whammy of big problems that GM
    has and Ford doesn’t have. GMAC, the troubled finance unit where GM has
    a 49% stake, is still reeling for the nation’s mortgage meltdown and GM
    took a $1.47-billion hit for its share of that mess in the first
    quarter. Chalk up another GM write-off of $731 million for costs
    associated with the seemingly bottomless pit that the Delphi Corp.
    Chapter 11 bankruptcy has become. And GM said its pretax operating
    earnings were hurt by about $800 million thanks to the ongoing strike at
    American Axle & Manufacturing
    , a key supplier of part for GM trucks and

    GM Vice Chairman Fritz Henderson, when I asked him today about GM’s
    turnaround momentum compared to Ford’s, would not talk about his
    Dearborn rival. But he did say that GM saw reasons for optimism in its
    overseas sales and profits, particularly in Asia and Latin America, and
    from a sizeable reduction in dealer inventories in the United States by
    about 200,000 vehicles, or 20%, during the quarter.

    “On balance, we’re not happy” with a $611-million pretax loss in North
    America, more than double the $269-million loss a year earlier. “But
    there are some things we can build on,” he added.

    So, Henderson’s partial answer to the Ford-GM comparison is that, yes,
    GM continues to make progress on key elements of its recovery plan – and
    Wall Street appeared to agree with him, as traders pushed GM’s stock
    price up more than 12% to $23.81 by 11:30 this morning, apparently on
    grounds that GM’s loss was not as bad as expected.

    That, as Henderson would agree, is still not where GM wants to be,
    living in a world of crummy expectations.

    OK lets talk about the reasons for the losses in a data driven method.

    GM cannot do much about the GMAC issue. They are stuck with all the bad loans.

    GM cannot do much about Delphi because of the financial market due to the above bad mortgage loans throughout the industry, they cannot get a loan to get out of bankruptcy.

    On the AA strike: GM just announced a major shift cut in large trucks and AA's plant in Mexico can supply all the parts. Guess AA will be closing plants now. To be honest though I cannot see how the strike caused that much loss in profit. The large trucks would not have sold anyway and the plants still would have to been closed.

    On the actual vehicle profit loss in US. Few if any of the hourly wage expenses have gone into effect. They still have the most expensive hourly work force, it will take years to reduce the hourly rate. The Beni's are going to take years to be reduced.

    But the major reason for lack of profit is the huge hit in profitable truck sales. Everyone is getting this.

    Another reason is the huge drop in sales this year for the entire industry.

    Do any of the above really have to do with too many divisions? No. Would cutting a few divisions help the bottom line? Most likely the answer is yes, BUT it is not a huge issue for profitability. Peter is correct there are issues to the number of divisions but it is not a huge driver for profits.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors Corp on Wednesday posted better-than-expected results on
    strong overseas sales, despite a costly supplier strike, waning demand
    for its most profitable vehicles and charges related to struggling
    former subsidiaries.

    GM, whose shares rose nearly 4 percent in pre-market trading, also took
    a $1.45-billion charge for its remaining investment in finance company
    GMAC and a $731-million charge for its exposure to the bankruptcy of
    auto parts supplier and former subsidiary Delphi Corp.

    Weighed down by those charges, GM posted a net loss of $3.25 billion, or
    $5.74 per share, compared with a profit of $62 million, or 11 cents a
    share a year-earlier.

    Revenue declined to $42.7 billion from $43.4 billion.

    Excluding one-time items, GM reported a first-quarter loss of $350
    million, or a 62 cents per share, a narrower loss than Wall Street had

    On average, analysts had expected GM to post a loss of $1.67 per share
    before items on revenue of $40.6 billion, according to Reuters

    GM Chief Financial Officer Ray Young said analysts may have
    underestimated the strength of GM's sales from emerging markets and the
    progress it made in cutting costs in North America. "The headline
    numbers don't look that great, but when you actually peel back the
    numbers ... I feel the first quarter is very encouraging," Young told
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306 lunchtime today. It's a 1992 model with a 3.3 litre V-6. It has 83K miles. They want $3,200 for it. The car is in pretty good shape if a bit dirty. It would look infinitely nicer after I got done detailing it. I think I could've done better at Carlisle this past weekend.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    Where's Andre? He probably needs another car...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    In the wake of dramatic sales declines in high-profit, full-sized SUVs and pickups, General Motors marketing chief Mark LaNeve says prices for cars and crossovers will rise.
    “The challenge for the industry from a revenue standpoint is -- revenue has disappeared due to the truck market declines, higher commodity prices, the cost to develop technology to meet CAFE and other .
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors executives say they don’t want to be in the fuel business. But GM is investing in a young company that says it can make ethanol economically from nonfood plant matter.

    GM President Fritz Henderson on Thursday announced the deal with Mascoma Corp., of Boston. Mascoma’s “best-in-class microorganisms and enzymes could lead a transformation to a new era of biofuels,” Henderson said in prepared remarks.

    Mascoma plans to complete a demonstration plant near Rome, New York, that can produce 200,000 gallons a year of ethanol. The plant first will use paper mill sludge as its raw material.

    This year, GM announced a similar deal with Coskata Inc., of suburban Chicago. Coskata is building an ethanol plant in Pennsylvania. GM has not disclosed the size of its stake in either company. rss01&rssfeed=rss01
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors and Ford saw double-digit U.S. sales declines but Toyota's sales edged up 3 percent in April as high gas prices accelerated consumers' rush away from trucks and sport utility vehicles.

    Total car sales at GM were flat despite strong demand for its redesigned Malibu sedan and the Pontiac Vibe

    A downward pattern was expected throughout the industry as gas prices rose to record highs. Automakers reported sales Thursday.

    General Motors Corp. said its truck and SUV sales were down 27 percent, dragging down increases in car and crossover sales. GM's overall sales were down 16 percent for the month compared with last April.

    Ford Motor Co. said its SUV sales were down 36 percent in April compared with the same month last year. Car sales were down only 1 percent, buoyed by sales of the Ford Focus small car, which saw a 44 percent jump in sales. The Focus gets 24 miles per gallon in the city and 33 on the highway. By comparison, Ford's largest SUV, the Expedition, gets 12 miles per gallon in the city and 18 on the highway, according to federal statistics. Ford's overall sales were down 12 percent.

    Toyota Motor Corp. said its car sales rose 12 percent, largely on the strength of the subcompact Yaris, which saw sales rise 46 percent and the hybrid Prius, which was up 54 percent. Toyota's truck and SUV sales dropped 8 percent.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Well now I understand why GM claims they had a loss due to the strike at AA which cost them truck sales. They lost about 15,000 commercial truck fleet sales. BUT that still does not give the $800 million they say they lost due to the strike. There is also the loss due to the shut down of the Lamda plant.

    The buzz around a potential agreement came as General Motors Corp., American Axle's largest customer, reported a 16 percent U.S. sales decline for April that included 15,000 lost fleet vehicle sales as a result of the strike.

    That lost sales cost GM about 1.5 points of market share, Mike DiGiovanni, GM's sales analyst, said. GM's fleet sales are down 30 percent more than the automaker planned for the year because of the parts shortage created by the walkout, he said. More than two dozen of GM's North American factories are either idled or partially shut down due to the strike.

    GM said earlier this week that the dispute cost the company $800 million in the first quarter. The automaker also lost 100,000 units of production, though many analysts say a cut would have been necessary anyway because of sluggish U.S. auto sales.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048 148/AUTO01

    Press is making the changes to Chrysler that GM has been making for 5 years. Very interesting story. Except for major alliances with foreign companies. Instead GM is using it's own companies in Korea, China and India for the product it needs.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Nissan was so proud of the GT-R's production-car lap-record run of 7:29
    on the Nürburgring Nordschleife that CEO Carlos Ghosn personally
    delivered the news to journalists gathered in Portugal.

    It must be sweet for Ghosn who championed the GT-R when Nissan was in
    dire financial trouble. And trumping Chevrolet's double-barrel
    announcements last week regarding the Corvette ZR1's outrageous 638-hp
    output and its 205-mph top speed, doesn't hurt either.

    But wait, didn't we quote Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter as
    saying that the ZR1 "will be able to take the production-car track
    record at any racetrack"? Yes, we did. What we didn't mention was that
    in the same interview, Juechter said that, while the company didn't yet
    have a full-production ZR1 to test at Nürburgring's old track, he
    confidently predicted the super-Vette would do the deed in "Seven
    minutes, twenty-something seconds."

    Hey, is that a gauntlet we see there on the ground? Anyone care to pick
    that up? (We're looking directly at you, Chevy.)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    During the next 18 months, GM will launch 14 new vehicles — 13 of which
    are cars and crossovers.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Well, that makes sense, as the Truck/SUV lineup should be set for at LEAST 3-5 years, considering the cost of gas.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    It is too bad that no one will compare the GT-R to the ZR1. The GT-R will always be compared to the similiary priced Z06.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Well, isn't that what's happening to the CTS??? Same size as a 5 series, yet everyone compares it to the lighter, smaller, but similarly priced 3 series.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    It is too bad that no one will compare the GT-R to the ZR1. The GT-R will always be compared to the similiary priced Z06.

    They will when a production spec ZR1 hits the press fleet. Considering the GT-R has topped the Z06 and 911 Turbo's Nuremberg's lap times it is certainly an impressive car.

    The ZR1 will be should be setting it's lap time around Nuremberg. It will be interesting to see how it does. HP certainly won't be an issue.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    "Well, isn't that what's happening to the CTS??? Same size as a 5 series, yet everyone compares it to the lighter, smaller, but similarly priced 3 series."

    It's not about size. The CTS is being compared to the 3-series because of price. The GT-R will be compared to the Z06 because of price. The ZR1 will be priced around $100,000 I have read. Both the Z06 and GT-R are priced around $70,000.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Chicago, May 1, 2008; Reuters compiled this list of the 20 top-selling vehicles in the U.S. through April of 2008 as reported by the automakers ranked by total units.

    RANK VEHICLE 2008 2007 '07 RANK %Chng
    1 Ford F-Series P/U 192,951 228,343 1 -15.5
    2 Chevy Silverado-C/K P/U 160,010 202,151 2 -20.8
    3 Toyota Camry 147,018 143,774 3 +2.3
    4 Toyota Corolla 99,482 120,484 6 -17.4
    5 Nissan Altima 99,037 90,338 9 +9.6
    6 Chevrolet Impala 98,478 108,876 7 -9.6
    7 Dodge Ram P/U 93,068 122,816 4 -24.2
    8 Ford Focus 72,920 56,463 15 +29.1
    9 Chevrolet Cobalt 66,660 56,848 14 +17.3
    10 Toyota Prius 64,664 52,738 18 +22.6
    11 Ford Escape 59,299 54,105 17 +9.6
    12 Chevrolet Malibu 59,133 48,270 22 +22.5
    13 GMC Sierra P/U 57,403 64,639 12 -11.2
    14 GM Pontiac G6 57,143 46,780 25 +22.2
    15 Ford Fusion 55,109 51,981 20 +6.0
    16 Toyota Tundra 54,134 43,386 29 +24.8
    17 Ford Econoline/Club Wagon 49,196 62,246 14 -21.0
    18 Chrysler Caravan 47,936 75,984 n/a -36.9
    19 Toyota RAV4 47,002 55,900 n/a -15.9
    20 Ford Edge 46,367 33,612 n/a +37.9
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Things to note:\
    - This list excludes Hondas. Honda didn't report April sales due to technical difficulties.
    - Ford Explorer is not even on the list. How the mighty have fallen.
    - Chevy Silvarado is down 21%, while the the older F150 is down 16%.
    - The Prius is now No. 9 among passenger cars, and sold more than the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion.
    - If this keeps going, the Camry will soon displace the Chevy Silvarado as the second best selling vehicle for the first time in history.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Well, it is about both. C&D did a test of the Z06 against a Porsche and a Ferrari. While the Z06 came in last in the test (speed-wise the Vette was as fast or faster) it shows that it takes a car that is between $90-130K MORE than the Vette to trump it (in handling, luxuries, etc.). The ONLY fault that most of the rags find w/ the CTS vs. the 3 series is that it is too big and heavy. But the CTS can prove that Caddy can make a car $20K CHEAPER than a 5 series that is quite similar in performance. That was Hyundai's whole mantra when it came out; same size car, more equiptment, alot less money.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    R&T did a 3 way test of 911 Turbo, Z06, and Nissan GTR. The GTR was first, the Z06 was 2nd, and 911 3rd. The GT-R turned in the best lap times.

    There is much more to comparing a car than just looking at performance numbers. How the car communicates and feels behind the wheel is hugely important and this is the area where exotics shine, as they should.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Exactly. My point was that in all the testing done to this point (GT-R notwithstanding) it took exotic cars costing 2-3 times what it costs for a Z06 to put it in it's place.

    As far as the 3 or 5 vs. the CTS the same logic applies to your last comment. The 3 gains a huge advantage over the CTS AND the 5 based on it's much smaller stature and added weight advantage. But their seems to be hedging on putting the CTS up against the 5 based on the cost difference.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I think the 1 series is bogus info but I could be wrong. Have to be a very flexible architecture to go from DTS to 1 series.

    However, a rear-wheel drive Chevy sedan is not completely out of the question as the new Zeta/Sigma platform will underpin six models on three different wheel bases, including:

    The next-generation Chevrolet Camaro, and possibly the Holden Monaro and a G8 coupe
    The next-generation Cadillac CTS coupe. Although the next-gen car will have the same wheel base, handling will be improved thanks to a forged-aluminum suspension
    The next-generation Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore, and possibly a Chevrolet model — although not the Impala
    The next-generation CTS sedan. Unlike the coupe, the sedan's wheel base will be stretched by 1.4 inches, but will use the same forged-aluminum suspension
    A longer wheel base version of the Zeta/Sigma platform will underpin the Holden Statesman/Buick Park Avenue in China (essentially long wheel base versions of our Pontiac G8) and possibly even a rear-wheel drive Buick Lucerne.
    The aforementioned STS/DTS replace will also ride on the extended platform, but will get a forged-aluminum suspension and longer overhangs.
    As we have reported before, the new platform will also underpin Cadillac's upcoming 3-series fighter and will replace the Euro-spec BLS. To help further spread costs, Holden, Pontiac and Chevrolet could get models based on the small Cadillac platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    April Sales Report
    GM’s April retail sales were down 11.5% and total sales for the month were down 16% on a non-adjusted basis. On an adjusted basis, total sales declined 22.7%. Retail car and crossover sales were up more than 9%. A sharp sales increase in fuel-efficient cars and crossovers could not make up for soft truck demand and a sharp decline in fleet deliveries impacted by the American Axle strike.

    Here are some noteworthy items:

    Retail car sales up 6%
    Chevrolet car retail sales up 24%, led by a 147% increase in Malibu, 17% rise in Cobalt, 13% increase in Aveo and 8% hike in Impala sales
    Pontiac retail car sales up 6%, with a 39% increase in Vibe, 3% climb in G5 and G6 sales
    Buick retail trucks up 32%, led by 4,000 Enclave crossover sales
    You can read the entire press release here.
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